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EA silence on family play and family play fans

Comments

  • hmae123hmae123 Posts: 1,912 Member
    When I logged out of my game last night I got a survey. I wouldn't take silence to mean something bad nessasirly. My guess is they are gathering facts and will probably continue to make a lot of improvements as they go. They may want to leave some things to surprise like with the ghosts.
  • sparkfairy1sparkfairy1 Posts: 11,453 Member
    hmae123 wrote: »
    When I logged out of my game last night I got a survey. I wouldn't take silence to mean something bad nessasirly. My guess is they are gathering facts and will probably continue to make a lot of improvements as they go. They may want to leave some things to surprise like with the ghosts.

    I hope so. But a lot of the fans who arent happy arent playing regularly so dont get access to the surveys.
  • AnavastiaAnavastia Posts: 6,515 Member
    edited November 2014
    SelenaGrey wrote: »

    From what I've gathered the people who are most disappointed with The Sims 4 want toddlers. They want the game to recognize great grand parents for their legacies. They want a family tree. There is nothing for these types of players in The Sims 4.

    Please don't interpret this as me trying to stir up controversy but I'm genuinely curious - do "toddlers" simply represent "full lifestages" or, as I've hypothesized in other responses here - do they simply represent a feeling of lack of deep family gameplay? Is it because you want those "teaching" moments?

    See THIS is why I worry. This is back in september. In the EA/Maxis silence thread. Since then we have had nothing more said on the family subject. Its like if they pretend we dont exist then that will work and we will all get used to being treated this way. Im sorry, I wont.
    In case anyone is interested they were fully aware of the issues people had regarding family because some wonderful community members engaged and went into a deep explanation of what was missing. After all this it feels wrong that we havent moved forward with this at all. @SelenaGrey had it right here. Shes totally on the money. Click the further quote thing to read her comment :-)

    http://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/790584/ea-maxis-silence/p22 here is the link to the post. Feel free to read through and see how clear it was made on a lot of issues-and in a really nice way too.

    Frankly i hope people don't sit there who don't represent family or generational players try to tell dev what it is we miss and are looking for, as they don't even understand in the first place. That should be left up to the individuals to represent themselves on what they're looking for as not all family players are the same or play the same. Again legacy players are different from generational players.

    So is toddlers a solution to the family experience no. It's not. Again it's the simulation play that came with connecting all these life stages that are.

    What is the impact on game stradegy of raising a family if all there is to them is repetitive interactions. Skilling up children in areas that later in life don't affect much gameplay leaves that lifestage to feeling empty for a generational player. where as a legacy player may more so enjoy being able to brush through life stages to create long linages. Generation play focus more on actually simulating family relationships, players enjoy the little details and customization to these life stages. If the game lacks that kind of capability, than a Generations EP isn't going to solve the issue neither is adding back toddlers.

    Again when grant said out of his mouth that sims children already know how to walk and use the bathroom It was a clear sign of saying that toddlers aren't needed. Oh what a terrible thing to say to a family player. Though he a dev of his own life simulation game can't see the why that would be wanted by a family play, never would these dev's ever be able to understand what made that play challenging and fun.

    Think about the connection, if you didn't teach your child to walk, they would be clumsy when they grew up. If you didn't teach them how to talk then imagine they'd have terrible social traits, or became shy. it's this kind of connectivity in the gameplay that had players interested. How could someone who doesn't play this understand what it is we wanted. They can't. All they see is we want back toddlers and nothing more. How disappointing and silly.
    Post edited by Anavastia on
  • blewis823blewis823 Posts: 9,046 Member
    Sk8rblaze wrote: »
    blewis823 wrote: »
    That's another case of EA trying to force the game into another form, be it RPG, MMO, or whatever the cool thing to do. I remember SimGuru Graham telling us at MTS this game was created for those that don't visit the forums and find the past iterations too hard. Either the hard core simmers would have to jump on board or be passed by. Well, lots of the hardcore simmers decided to let it past by, they don't want to jump on board with a game that doesn't have true fans simming in mind. Now EA wants to send out surveys, open up threads for ideas. Why now? I know you all didn't want us to give any suggestions before, but asking now for ideas looks very suspicious. Didn't it all work out the way you wanted? Now you want to cater to the hardcore simmer? Again I SMH.

    @blewis823 Could you link us to the MTS post where Graham had said that?

    IMHO, that's enough to turn me off from this gen of Sims completely.
    @Sk8rblaze, I have looked over the 6 pages of responses by SimGuru Graham and can't find the thread, I fear it's been deleted. One of the reasons I remember is the replies were between Graham and I, not nice in the first place because I call on anyone's you know what when they are dishing it out. I will link you to his posts at MTS and you might be able to find it, I am not sure if you need to be a member or not to read them.
    http://www.modthesims.info/search.php?searchid=31555491&pp=25&page=2

    I am through with voicing my opinion on this forum, those with the "special" connection or plum plum with the SimGuru's are speaking for me now, I don't need to post. Hope you all have fun with this series, it's not going to be for me.
    Nothing to see. I don't even care about the forums.
  • altad1altad1 Posts: 1,091 Member
    I seriously hope this silence is because they have something spectacular planned.

    I was honestly one of those who didn't mind when I heard toddlers were not going to be in the game but in truth my opinion has changed. I just can't play a family, and I realised that in the past I had a choice, and that's what this game is about choice. I loved toddlers in S2 in S3 not so much but loved the strollers and being able to take them out and about so yes I miss them.

    How can it possibly be a Sim game if it doesn't give us all the lifestages to simulate. I'd love to see my sim parents taking their toddlers out to the park, and if we are going to have open careers and babies already go to day care I'd love to have Day care assistant and owners in there.
  • feetinstockingsfeetinstockings Posts: 4,264 Member
    I reckon the reason EA hasn't talked about toddlers is there going to put them in an EP along with family trees, and make us pay for it.
    But I won't be buying any EP's until we have toddlers and family trees. The game is incomplete and not as fun without these things. I need these to make my game like a living dolls house. I'm bored with playing with single sims, or with sims playing around. I want proper families.
  • Sk8rblazeSk8rblaze Posts: 7,570 Member
    edited November 2014
    blewis823 wrote: »
    Sk8rblaze wrote: »
    blewis823 wrote: »
    That's another case of EA trying to force the game into another form, be it RPG, MMO, or whatever the cool thing to do. I remember SimGuru Graham telling us at MTS this game was created for those that don't visit the forums and find the past iterations too hard. Either the hard core simmers would have to jump on board or be passed by. Well, lots of the hardcore simmers decided to let it past by, they don't want to jump on board with a game that doesn't have true fans simming in mind. Now EA wants to send out surveys, open up threads for ideas. Why now? I know you all didn't want us to give any suggestions before, but asking now for ideas looks very suspicious. Didn't it all work out the way you wanted? Now you want to cater to the hardcore simmer? Again I SMH.

    @blewis823 Could you link us to the MTS post where Graham had said that?

    IMHO, that's enough to turn me off from this gen of Sims completely.
    @Sk8rblaze, I have looked over the 6 pages of responses by SimGuru Graham and can't find the thread, I fear it's been deleted. One of the reasons I remember is the replies were between Graham and I, not nice in the first place because I call on anyone's you know what when they are dishing it out. I will link you to his posts at MTS and you might be able to find it, I am not sure if you need to be a member or not to read them.
    http://www.modthesims.info/search.php?searchid=31555491&pp=25&page=2

    I am through with voicing my opinion on this forum, those with the "special" connection or plum plum with the SimGuru's are speaking for me now, I don't need to post. Hope you all have fun with this series, it's not going to be for me.

    @blewis823

    Thank you for trying to find it. I honestly believe it regardless, especially based on what I played myself in TS4.

    Welp, at least I have The Sims 2: Complete Collection on my Origin account and could try booting up TS3 when I get a better gaming computer. TS4 seriously made me look at TS3 differently, which is a good thing given how much money I spent on it, lol.
  • ShearsyShearsy Posts: 727 Member
    edited November 2014
    Gnarl_Lee wrote: »
    ...or maybe Family play isn't as popular as some of you want it to be...sure, you family players are very vocal and visible but the bottom line is, what do the majority of people want?...clearly there are a lot more people wanting something other than family play out there.

    The "family" style was the concept of the original Sims. And so was Sims 2, and they are the highest selling Sims series, so I don't see what you're trying to say. And even if that were the case, you're saying that it's correct to completely ignore a large group of the Sims community to cater to a minority? The game is the way that it is because the developers assigned to produce it never played the Sims.

    Not exactly... The original sims only had child then adult. (I wouldn't even count the baby as a lifestage that was just awful and scared me a little actually) they didn't even grow old and die. Many EPs that came after it weren't exactly family driven either.

    I remember without the Generations EP the family play was quite boring and very limited. And don't forget how repetitive toddlers were. TS2 had it right.

    Oh and when reading the the topic of Guru's introducing themselves, many were fans of The Sims and were very passionate about it. But you are probably right. The higher ups probably haven't played it. Well, I wouldn't be surprised anyway, they too busy spending our money :)
  • zOmBiEcLoWnzOmBiEcLoWn Posts: 48 Member
    > @sparkfairy1 said:
    > zOmBiEcLoWn wrote: »
    >
    > I rarely played the toddlers in TS3. I would just age them up to avoid the hassle. What I would like is some way to tell the difference between a teen and young adult. Cassandra Goth aged up, but still looks like a teen.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Many of us agree with you on the teen issue. But you had the option to age them up. EA has deprived us of toddlers at all, theres where the problem lies. No opportunity to play as we like.

    > @sparkfairy1 said:
    > zOmBiEcLoWn wrote: »
    >
    > I rarely played the toddlers in TS3. I would just age them up to avoid the hassle. What I would like is some way to tell the difference between a teen and young adult. Cassandra Goth aged up, but still looks like a teen.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Many of us agree with you on the teen issue. But you had the option to age them up. EA has deprived us of toddlers at all, theres where the problem lies. No opportunity to play as we like.

    So it appears that they deprived us of teens as well as toddlers.
  • GillieGillie Posts: 1,708 Member
    Have they said anything about working on a functional family tree yet? Heck, have they even acknowledge that some simmers, like myself, think this should have been a priority? It's been two months now. Ghosts, pools, and two new careers are nice and all but what's the point of playing families if no one's going to remember their lineage.

    Players shouldn't have to write their families down or resort to third party websites.
  • blewis823blewis823 Posts: 9,046 Member
    I feel you @Pary and agree. There seems to be a belief that the people on this forum run things, they are the group that EA is catering to but they will be surprised how many others that don't come to this forum are not buying because of the missing toddlers, cars, general sims sandbox play. After the 5 yr run, I'd like to see how well this series will be kept up by the ones that have the interest of EA? For me, I'm out.

    Now I'm going back to lurk mode.
    Nothing to see. I don't even care about the forums.
  • CowPlantForHireCowPlantForHire Posts: 6,002 Member
    I see that I'm not the only who is discontinuing support for The Sims 4, if not the whole series. I finally started playing the d.arn game, and EA decides to leak info on an Open for Business expansion pack with no mentions of the return of toddlers and/or family trees. I was like "Seriously, EA? This is suppose to make up for the lack of content for family/generational play? Nuh, uh, nope, I ain't buying that expansion pack nor the one that comes right after. In fact, I'm not buying anything related to The Sims 4 after the mess you made with the base game."

    I'll still post on these forums; though, I will no longer provide feedback for this series. :neutral_face:
    tumblr_msl1pmMPdd1sho68to1_400.gif
  • SpidersWebSpidersWeb Posts: 1,027 Member
    I see that I'm not the only who is discontinuing support for The Sims 4
    haha I enjoyed that quote

    Anyway, family trees / generations / maybe toddlers will come back if people like yourself keep showing how important it is.
    Performance, Price, Portability - pick two.
  • JaciJadeJaciJade Posts: 1,078 Member
    I thought it was a bit strange leading up to Sims 4 release that so many guru's would have these live sessions showing off the game before its release. Now suddenly they are saying they can't SAY what is or isn't going to be released. I think they know they messed up the game and they tried awfully hard to sell it emphasizing how fun, cool, and weird it all was. I'm totally not buying the silence. So which is it EA, either you can show off up coming features or you can't. Seems you CAN show and tell when it's convenient.

    Thank you EA and thank you Maxis..we got our babies back, Yay!
  • sparkfairy1sparkfairy1 Posts: 11,453 Member
    JaciJade wrote: »
    I thought it was a bit strange leading up to Sims 4 release that so many guru's would have these live sessions showing off the game before its release. Now suddenly they are saying they can't SAY what is or isn't going to be released. I think they know they messed up the game and they tried awfully hard to sell it emphasizing how fun, cool, and weird it all was. I'm totally not buying the silence. So which is it EA, either you can show off up coming features or you can't. Seems you CAN show and tell when it's convenient.

    Totally agree.

    I'm really glad we've finally had an opportunity to come together and air our grievances and I find it illuminating that no one has popped in to try to placate us-theres not even an attempt. As far as I'm concerned there lies the issue-because it's not convenient to them they belittle fans like us and ignore us in the hope that we will 'get over it' and alter the way we play.

    To those of you who say you are giving up-please don't! Unless we campaign for ourselves then we will never see proper family in a sims game again-they will assume we don't exist because it makes their lives easier. And at this point i think it's even more important for us to stand up and be clear with EA. They NEED to know that loyal sims players are abandoning sims4 for a GENUINE reason and that if they addressed us and FIXED things then it's SALVAGABLE.

    I've often said I feel sorry for the gurus over the lack of budget and being put between a rock and a hard place over this stuff. But I wish that someone, anyone, would acknowledge us properly. Quite simply from a customer relations stand point this is unacceptable. I've tried to highlight this thread just in the tiny glimmer of hope that we would be taken seriously. I guess that's too much to ask. I understand they have to fight things out with their bosses and pr departments-then take the wealth of feedback all over this forum, Facebook, all over the place begging for family play and show them the depth of feeling here. We are trying to do this in a nice way to show exactly what the issues are. We aren't unreasonable people-sure those rude people exist, but we aren't despite being extremely tested by the attitude at EA.
  • sparkfairy1sparkfairy1 Posts: 11,453 Member
    SpidersWeb wrote: »
    I see that I'm not the only who is discontinuing support for The Sims 4
    haha I enjoyed that quote

    Anyway, family trees / generations / maybe toddlers will come back if people like yourself keep showing how important it is.

    Exactly right, thank you :-)
  • elanorbretonelanorbreton Posts: 14,110 Member
    Gnarl_Lee wrote: »
    theres more to life than family
    There would be no life without family.

    We'd all have very short games or have to play with aging off if there was no family. Lol. So... such an important aspect of Life needs to be treated properly, fully fleshed out with all life stages.

    I was expecting a step UP from TS3 when TS4 was announced. Lots of options to suit all play styles. I felt sure that EA would finally give us the family aspects so many have been crying out for for years - babies with legs - yay, we got those! No more burrito babies! But what did they do? Made them objects. Totally pathetic. We wanted toddlers with more interactions and heaps of cuteness. What did they do? Cut them entirely. We wanted a pre-teen lifestage. No sign or talk of that at all. And then they made teens into young adult look-alikes.

    Way to go, EA.
  • Bettyboop55Bettyboop55 Posts: 2,646 Member
    Yesterday was a bit of a facer but it did serve a purpose. Those pictures were concept and I understand they have now been pulled. Having thought overnight I wonder if EA was testing our reaction. If so they certainly got it.

    So as I said in another thread we need to wait for some kind of communication from the company. The family play side may not have been overlooked.

    It saddens me to see people giving up before we definitely know what EA has planned. I would urge people to wait at least until Christmas for the announcement. If we have nothing by then that's the point to be really worried by the silence.
    I no longer use Origin or My Page. You can find me on YouTube or Twitter as Bettyboop711000. You are welcome to contact me as I explore options for a PC sandbox life simulation game.
    Wherever I am friends call me Betty

    Sim enim est vita
  • Frbs19Frbs19 Posts: 46 Member
    Yeah, don't get me wrong I like Sims 4 but they have taken some stuff like Family Trees and why haven't they fix the marriage thing. I know some people don't mind changing the last name. But I like to do that or at least have the option without having to run a cheat to get the last name to change.
  • Jarsie9Jarsie9 Posts: 12,714 Member
    edited November 2014
    @BettyBoop55, have you looked at General Discussion lately? If you notice, there's hardly any negative threads regarding the game or toddlers, aside from one or two. What this means to me is that the fans are already giving up and have lost hope. I remember putting a response in a thread that said EA should be glad for all the flames, because, at least, it shows that we care. And the worse thing that can happen is when the fans who dislike The Sims 4 go silent, because that means that they've already started saying "Forget you, EA/Maxis". Most have gone back to playing their old games, because, imperfect as those games are, they're better than this current iteration (at least, in their opinion).

    Now I know there are pro-TS4 players who are happy to see this happening because that means that they won and all the nay-sayers are (largely) gone, but what they don't realize is this: Anytime you are in a forum where there is complete agreement, that forum starts dying a slow death. People like controversy, they like conflict because it gives them a reason to log onto the forums and read. I know I'm more likely to stay and participate if there's something going on, but if all I see is threads about the game and it's not a situation that interests me, I won't bother even reading the thread. There are some threads here that I have never participated in because they don't interest me.

    To the OP, I appreciate what you're saying, I'm sorry, I disagree. Whining and complaining has had little result so far; I doubt very much it will help. EA/Maxis knows what we want. They also know that Christmas is coming up and if toddlers aren't patched in somehow (and yes, they'll probably be limited, but given this game engine, at least it'll be better than nothing), they can kiss their Christmas sales goodbye. The crowd that is already supporting this game isn't going to be enough to maintain it; it doesn't take a genius to figure it out, especially since word of mouth is a powerful tool, and there's enough experienced TS4 players who have walked away to tell their friends/relatives not to waste their money...or at least wait til they can buy the game at a drastically reduced price.

    Either way, EA is losing money. The strongest message we can send EA is to stop giving EA feedback in the General Discussion part of this forum and stop supporting The Sims 4 altogether. There are plenty of topics in other parts of this forum that we can agree on; we just have to accept the fact that EA doesn't care about family/legacy players. (And even then, I'm losing interest here).

    I know not everyone is going to agree with me on this, but I think that since EA has seen fit to slap a large segment of its fan base, it's only right that we return the favor. Because, otherwise, we remain at the mercy of EA's Corporate HQ.

    That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
    EA Marketing Department Motto:
    "We Don't Care If You LIKE The Game, Just As Long As You BUY The Game!"
    B)
    I Disapprove (Naturally)
    I Took The Pledge!
  • xBob18xBob18 Posts: 7,893 Member
    Pary wrote: »
    I've no longer bothered to post and voice my opinion much, or give feedback anymore. Quite frankly it appears all the developers do is pat us on the back and placate us with "we're listening" and then not actually listen to anyone at all. Well, unless the feedback happens to be "give us more RPG elements, and plum to the family or life simulator situations." There is no reason that in depth family elements cannot coexist alongside the questy type stuff so that everyone has something to do.

    I don't like this iteration of Sims at all. Someone further back in this thread said this game had become too easy and far too infantile. I often thought that about TS3, and it was imo, it didn't push its teen rating like TS2 did, but this game is far far worse, from the art style to the gameplay. And I don't like Rachel Franklin's "zomg think of the children" attitude at all.
    In an interview HERE she likens the "yell at" interaction to the antagonist sim being an "abuser" . Come ON. People take away ladders, they drown their sims in pools, they electrocute them, starve 'em, curse them, set them on fire, as well as all the good things. They've been doing it for years.
    As for her remarks on spider sense, I'm not even touching on that. It's the most ridiculous thing I've ever read. This game was ruined from the beginning, to suit the freeplay / facebook crowd, and not the fans who have been with the series right from the start, who want guts to the series, in depth interactions with appropriate reactions, not bro's, ho's and sunshine, fluffy, rainbow lollipop land.

    I've given up on the series now, and I encourage anyone else who feels likewise to vote with your wallets and refuse to support it any longer. It might not hurt EA's pocket, but at least you'll be making a statement that you're no longer willing to put up with this type of stripped down rubbish, as well as saving yourself some money.

    If there was a "Love" button I would click it 5000 times.
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  • Wildley CuriousWildley Curious Posts: 5,349 Member
    Jarsie9 wrote: »
    @BettyBoop55, have you looked at General Discussion lately? If you notice, there's hardly any negative threads regarding the game or toddlers, aside from one or two. What this means to me is that the fans are already giving up and have lost hope. I remember putting a response in a thread that said EA should be glad for all the flames, because, at least, it shows that we care. And the worse thing that can happen is when the fans who dislike The Sims 4 go silent, because that means that they've already started saying "Forget you, EA/Maxis". Most have gone back to playing their old games, because, imperfect as those games are, they're better than this current iteration (at least, in their opinion).

    Now I know there are pro-TS4 players who are happy to see this happening because that means that they won and all the nay-sayers are (largely) gone, but what they don't realize is this: Anytime you are in a forum where there is complete agreement, that forum starts dying a slow death. People like controversy, they like conflict because it gives them a reason to log onto the forums and read. I know I'm more likely to stay and participate if there's something going on, but if all I see is threads about the game and it's not a situation that interests me, I won't bother even reading the thread. There are some threads here that I have never participated in because they don't interest me.

    To the OP, I appreciate what you're saying, I'm sorry, I disagree. Whining and complaining has had little result so far; I doubt very much it will help. EA/Maxis knows what we want. They also know that Christmas is coming up and if toddlers aren't patched in somehow (and yes, they'll probably be limited, but given this game engine, at least it'll be better than nothing), they can kiss their Christmas sales goodbye. The crowd that is already supporting this game isn't going to be enough to maintain it; it doesn't take a genius to figure it out, especially since word of mouth is a powerful tool, and there's enough experienced TS4 players who have walked away to tell their friends/relatives not to waste their money...or at least wait til they can buy the game at a drastically reduced price.

    Either way, EA is losing money. The strongest message we can send EA is to stop giving EA feedback in the General Discussion part of this forum and stop supporting The Sims 4 altogether. There are plenty of topics in other parts of this forum that we can agree on; we just have to accept the fact that EA doesn't care about family/legacy players. (And even then, I'm losing interest here).

    I know not everyone is going to agree with me on this, but I think that since EA has seen fit to slap a large segment of its fan base, it's only right that we return the favor. Because, otherwise, we remain at the mercy of EA's Corporate HQ.

    That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

    Agree 1000%. We did what EA said they wanted - we yelled, we begged, we explained ad nauseum why we want toddlers/generational gameplay back - and what did we get in return? I also agree that once those of us that are unhappy leave the thread it will indeed die a slow death, because even with all of the mudslinging we were at least communicating. I have a feeling that once the dissenters stop posting EA will be thrilled - at first - then a little concerned about lack of sales - then a little more concerned - the snowball effect. Honestly, the most puzzling part of this for me has been the fact that even though this is the "official" forum the Gurus weren't here every day talking to us. But they haven't been on the "official" EA forum every day - no, they were on FB and Twitter because that's apparently where they heard what they wanted to hear.
    “I was so sure that I knew what they needed and what I wanted to sell them that I never stopped long enough to find out what it was they wanted to buy.”
    ― Chris Murray, The Extremely Successful Salesman's Club
  • Jarsie9Jarsie9 Posts: 12,714 Member
    SimGuru Grant, himself, said that they prefer Facebook and Twitter to the forums because it's just so much easier and faster to communicate with the fans.

    I suspect, also, as you say, @GreyLady2010, it's because they hear what they want to hear from the younger and shallower fans, and that they're tired of having to justify the decisions to the fans on this forum, who have every right to feel ripped off for all the money they paid for this game.

    And before anyone says: "Well, you didn't have to buy it, you knew you weren't getting toddlers!" etc. etc., remember all those posts that claimed that we couldn't possibly say we disliked the game until we had actually bought it and paid it, and made it clear that *our* opinion didn't matter because we clearly didn't know what we were talking about.

    So, in essence we were told we HAD to buy it in order to decide if we liked it or not.
    EA Marketing Department Motto:
    "We Don't Care If You LIKE The Game, Just As Long As You BUY The Game!"
    B)
    I Disapprove (Naturally)
    I Took The Pledge!
  • Wildley CuriousWildley Curious Posts: 5,349 Member
    Sure they prefer FB and Twitter - it's so much easier to excuse not being able to give truthful, fleshed out answers when you're restricted to 140 characters. (I am feeling so snarky right now. Sigh.)
    “I was so sure that I knew what they needed and what I wanted to sell them that I never stopped long enough to find out what it was they wanted to buy.”
    ― Chris Murray, The Extremely Successful Salesman's Club
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