I hope EA realize a large part of simmers are not buying because toddlers are important to them, this series don't have them and they find it strange. My niece whom was groomed a simmer, that is my fault because she would watch me play from an arm baby, don't want Sims 4 because there are no toddlers. She continues to play Sims 3. She is not interested at all. If they were hoping on the teen demographics with this series, they lost my niece and her friends. None of the people that I see day to day and they played sims didn't buy the Sims 4 game and they are not interested until they add some of things that made them fall in love with Sims games.
Nothing to see. I don't even care about the forums.
@Deshong04, YES!!!! I feel the same way! I really thought that Sims 3 would give us the best of Sims and Sims 2 and just improve upon them. I enjoy Sims 3 now, but do I love it? no, not in the same way I love Sims 1 and 2. I love the open world though. LOL I honestly believed that Sims 4 would have finally combined all the awesomeness from the first three and blow us out the water. Like you said, it's 2014. Why are we being pushed back to game play from 2004? I don't play many games but the few that I do are leaps and bounds above Sims 4 in game play wise. I mean, if a small start up company can put out a open world like "DayZ" or "The Forrest", why can't EA? And those games cost under twenty four dollars. I feel the no open world and no weather in the base game was a cop out. It's 2014, why should we have to pay for the privilege to have our sims drive? I feel slapped in the face.
Am I the only who has noticed that when they tend to be particularly silent on a subject it turns out it's one they are working on? My guess is there will eventually be huge improvements to family play and that toddlers will indeed be added.
Hope springs eternal.
EA Marketing Department Motto:
"We Don't Care If You LIKE The Game, Just As Long As You BUY The Game!"
I Disapprove (Naturally) I Took The Pledge!
@GoldenBuffy The thing, I think, with Indie games is that they focus on customer satisfaction/feedback and take it to heart and listen and follow through if possible. The reason why well established game developers get away with not satisfying customers but still make money is because too many people don't care enough to help correct that behavior in order to get the best they can from the company. It is a business exchange after all right? You give me a well made product I want and I give you money. However if you want to start being cheap and cutting corners and lacking quality, then no money from me. But so many don't care so the cycle repeats yet they complain when they are all a part of the problem. So there's no point in complaining just keep buying and playing and support them then.
If an Indie developer were to cut out customer satisfaction they simply wouldn't survive, most likely. I don't care if EA/Maxis/The Sims Studio is the only developer that has so far the best life simulation game. If they no longer care about the consumers/fanbase then I don't care to support them. Simple as that. It's just a game but there are so many better games out there and developers that actually listen and care and APPLY feedback where appropriate. Not all this talk and nothing happens. All that is is just pretending to care but don't give a care. "We'll pretend to listen just to get you off our backs but the reality is we don't give a care. You still buy and provide us with a paycheck, so be quiet and keep buying because you're not going to do anything drastic like stop supporting us. So it is what it is." That's how I feel they think. But of course they will make some things happen to give the illusion they are doing something. Besides if enough people had enough, then EA would have no choice but to focus more on customer satisfaction before calling it quits.
Anyway Indie games are pretty amazing. A lot of talent and creativity out there. I'd definitely like to buy more Indie games after I finish The Vanishing of Ethan Carter.
“What doesn't kill you makes you stronger
Stand a little taller
Doesn't mean I'm lonely when I'm alone
What doesn't kill you makes a fighter
Footsteps even lighter”
I disagree with the poster who said that EA's dev team *has* to keep silent and can't reveal anything due to so-called "legal reasons" and here's why:
When I bought my first copy of The Sims 2, I looked at the back cover and saw that the first expansion pack was going to be University. When I bought University, the next expansion pack was on the back cover...I *think* it was Night Life.
What I'm saying is that when The Sims 2 came out, The Sims Studios were not shy about revealing what was coming next. And neither were they shy about telling us what the first EP for The Sims 3 was going to be, even though it wasn't done until about 3 months after the game was launched.
That being the case, what changed? Why, all of a sudden is it a legal issue having to do with the Securities and Exchange Commission polices? (Or words to that effect).
Sorry, but I'm not buying, and although there are players who are telling others to be patient, toddlers are coming, give me one good reason why we should have to pay for them via an expansion pack. Just. One. Good. Reason. Frankly, I'm more of a realist, and from having observed the Sim Studios' practices over the year, I know the Team will only make something if it's not too hard to implement in game play and builds on the framework that's already in the base game. Toddlers may have been intended to be put in, but I bet dollars to doughnuts, if toddlers had been included, they would have been rudimentary at best...a mere token of what toddlers were in the past. Even so, if they had gone ahead and put toddlers in the game in the first place, even if only on a limited basis, they wouldn't be having the problems they're having now. Sure, fans would have gotten upset, but they would have eventually accepted the limited toddler interactions.
As it stands now, any addition of toddlers at this late stage will probably be seen by the fans as too little, too late, especially if there are limited interactions involved. And, no I don't believe that The Sims team is even now secretly working on surprising players by plopping toddlers into the game. More than likely, they're working on the first and second EP's which have been planned far in advance and probably don't include toddlers.
EA Marketing Department Motto:
"We Don't Care If You LIKE The Game, Just As Long As You BUY The Game!"
I Disapprove (Naturally) I Took The Pledge!
I miss the family aspect so much. I'm starting to build my families up now and it's a shame that only really starts from the child lifestage. The baby stage is so dull and unfulfilling when my Sim gave birth yesterday I instantly aged him up. I'd have never done that in the previous games. I know the baby stage is never thrilling but the chance to take them out of the crib and just carry them around or give them a bath made a lot of difference. I loved taking care of toddlers in previous games, it's what made the Sims 2 so much better than 1 for me. We need those basic things back.
I disagree with the poster who said that EA's dev team *has* to keep silent and can't reveal anything due to so-called "legal reasons" and here's why:
When I bought my first copy of The Sims 2, I looked at the back cover and saw that the first expansion pack was going to be University. When I bought University, the next expansion pack was on the back cover...I *think* it was Night Life.
What I'm saying is that when The Sims 2 came out, The Sims Studios were not shy about revealing what was coming next. And neither were they shy about telling us what the first EP for The Sims 3 was going to be, even though it wasn't done until about 3 months after the game was launched.
That being the case, what changed? Why, all of a sudden is it a legal issue having to do with the Securities and Exchange Commission polices? (Or words to that effect).
Sorry, but I'm not buying, and although there are players who are telling others to be patient, toddlers are coming, give me one good reason why we should have to pay for them via an expansion pack. Just. One. Good. Reason. Frankly, I'm more of a realist, and from having observed the Sim Studios' practices over the year, I know the Team will only make something if it's not too hard to implement in game play and builds on the framework that's already in the base game. Toddlers may have been intended to be put in, but I bet dollars to doughnuts, if toddlers had been included, they would have been rudimentary at best...a mere token of what toddlers were in the past. Even so, if they had gone ahead and put toddlers in the game in the first place, even if only on a limited basis, they wouldn't be having the problems they're having now. Sure, fans would have gotten upset, but they would have eventually accepted the limited toddler interactions.
As it stands now, any addition of toddlers at this late stage will probably be seen by the fans as too little, too late, especially if there are limited interactions involved. And, no I don't believe that The Sims team is even now secretly working on surprising players by plopping toddlers into the game. More than likely, they're working on the first and second EP's which have been planned far in advance and probably don't include toddlers.
@Jarsie9 I totally agree. As for those who say they've always been silent-I don't believe they have. They told us in September we were getting ghosts, pools in November and 'careers' in December. Two careers. Now there's rumours of eps. So where's the silence there?
At this point I think they are trying to placate people in the easiest possible fashion-so they don't have to invest much more money into 4. If they intended toddlers to be implemented why haven't they announced it yet even if they say in 6 months?! It would make people feel better and save face a little on EAs part. Instead they continue to let us wait, as players such as us feel increasingly marginalised and resentful of being treated that way. I think what they've miscalculated though is the depth of feeling over toddlers. It's not so much 'just' a life stage any more. It's a symbol for what is missing from 4-of the glaring omissions from the game because they kept cutting and cutting budget and staff until they ended up releasing and unfinished game at a premium price. They hoped everyone would just accept it but I think it surprises them and at this point people are making a stand. Those who didn't buy yet hold the power, but in a smaller way so do we, the ones who did buy, because we have the option to stop the money train if the ep is released and the base game remains incomplete. That's where I stand-a loyal customer who bought nearly everything the sims since sims 1. How many fans like that can they afford to alienate?!
"We hear you." They said that before when the Sims 4 was in development. And seeing and playing the game, and what is missing (open world, CASt, vehicles, etc.) makes me think they were not listening, and I wonder if they truly are listening now. I know we all have our own ideas of what should be included in a base game, but it's 2014, many games now launch with basics such as weather. Why are we still not getting that? And the toddlers, teens who look like adults, and of course there's more. It just makes me sad. I really do feel let down by EA with the Sims. I don't think it's fair that we have to continue to shell out money for things that could easily be included in a base game that is $60.
Even after it's launch and I watched Youtubers and their "Let's Plays", and I read over here on the forum, I was still on the fence, I wanted to play the game for myself. I finally got it last Sunday, and I'm already tired of playing it. I did not want that to happen. Right now I don't feel valued as a long time player - been playing since 2000 - and then ignoring us is like a slap in the face.
Please, EA and Maxis, listen to us. Make this game awesome! We know you can do it! Take what was so great with the previous Sims and improve upon their greatness, that's the game we want!
Them being so quiet on the subject has me worried quite a bit. The first EP they roll out should be a family EP because this is ridiculous. If they roll out another themed EP other than family I'm going to be so upset and disappointed. If EA never includes family play, I will leave this series, simple as that. I'm happy with my toddlers in TS2 and TS3 and if TS4 never gets toddlers and decent family play, well that's a dealbreaker for me and I'll be done with this series.
Am I the only who has noticed that when they tend to be particularly silent on a subject it turns out it's one they are working on? My guess is there will eventually be huge improvements to family play and that toddlers will indeed be added.
I think I'm just having a day of agreeing with you. Haha.
Regarding teenage heights, we were told there and then that their heights will not be changing yet everytime toddlers have been brought up they have stayed quiet and just said they couldn't say anything. This is just one example. (Don't make me give more though, just had a very long day at work ) I think they can't say it because they ARE working on it, they just want to make sure it's right before telling the world.
Half the time I wonder if anyone that actually makes the game plays the game. It seems to me that aside from programming this game, none of the people developing it seem to know how it plays or good ideas for what to put into it that they figure out through gameplay, they're always asking us. Frankly I'm tired of being an unpaid EA tester. I've been playing sims since TS1 and management on this series has gotten steadily worse. I'm hoping things improve. I'm actually waiting for an adult competitor to the sims so I can ditch this baby game and get into a sims that's a mix of GTA, Skyrim and Sims. I don't know if that will ever happen, so I'm stuck here with this unfinished teenager game.
Half the time I wonder if anyone that actually makes the game plays the game. It seems to me that aside from programming this game, none of the people developing it seem to know how it plays or good ideas for what to put into it that they figure out through gameplay, they're always asking us. Frankly I'm tired of being an unpaid EA tester. I've been playing sims since TS1 and management on this series has gotten steadily worse. I'm hoping things improve. I'm actually waiting for an adult competitor to the sims so I can ditch this baby game and get into a sims that's a mix of GTA, Skyrim and Sims. I don't know if that will ever happen, so I'm stuck here with this unfinished teenager game.
I think in a lot of ways that's true. In a thread when I was talking to Sim Guru Lindsay she basically told me that they lost their way and found in hard to get in a simmers mind. I'd rather they said they needed unpaid testers or idea people from the fan base during development if this was the case-I know plenty of fans would have jumped at the chance! Instead they spent out on focus groups, which I don't think was the right way to go. Maybe they will have learnt that from this mess.
Half the time I wonder if anyone that actually makes the game plays the game. It seems to me that aside from programming this game, none of the people developing it seem to know how it plays or good ideas for what to put into it that they figure out through gameplay, they're always asking us. Frankly I'm tired of being an unpaid EA tester. I've been playing sims since TS1 and management on this series has gotten steadily worse. I'm hoping things improve. I'm actually waiting for an adult competitor to the sims so I can ditch this baby game and get into a sims that's a mix of GTA, Skyrim and Sims. I don't know if that will ever happen, so I'm stuck here with this unfinished teenager game.
I think in a lot of ways that's true. In a thread when I was talking to Sim Guru Lindsay she basically told me that they lost their way and found in hard to get in a simmers mind. I'd rather they said they needed unpaid testers or idea people from the fan base during development if this was the case-I know plenty of fans would have jumped at the chance! Instead they spent out on focus groups, which I don't think was the right way to go. Maybe they will have learnt that from this mess.
I do hope they have learnt quite a few lessons from the release of TS4. Any good company would want a decent period of publicity before the launch of the first EP. I am thinking if we haven't heard about toddlers by Christmas and there are no announcements about an EP in January then we need to be seriously worried.
I understand the developers might have a gagging clause on them. Why is that ? Well decent companies would have long term plans and strategies in place. I don't believe EA would be any different but something didn't go according to plan. I think since September the company has been having a major rethink. They are asking the Forum, sending out surveys and the developers are coming to talk to us. If it had all gone according to plan then the devs should be taking to us now about the first EP, showing us screenshots etc. So I think they are reworking the first EP, hence the gagging clause.
I would love to be more positive. I genuinely don't like this continued silence. It bothers me. I don't want to find myself in the New Year walking away from the franchise. I fell in love with this baby game a long time ago and I don't want it to end. I know a lot of simmers feel the same way, some having played much longer than me. As you say OP it is a mess.
I no longer use Origin or My Page. You can find me on YouTube or Twitter as Bettyboop711000. You are welcome to contact me as I explore options for a PC sandbox life simulation game.
Wherever I am friends call me Betty
Half the time I wonder if anyone that actually makes the game plays the game. It seems to me that aside from programming this game, none of the people developing it seem to know how it plays or good ideas for what to put into it that they figure out through gameplay, they're always asking us. Frankly I'm tired of being an unpaid EA tester. I've been playing sims since TS1 and management on this series has gotten steadily worse. I'm hoping things improve. I'm actually waiting for an adult competitor to the sims so I can ditch this baby game and get into a sims that's a mix of GTA, Skyrim and Sims. I don't know if that will ever happen, so I'm stuck here with this unfinished teenager game.
I'm a teenager and even I think it's starting to become childish. Why did they tone down the making-out interaction from TS2? Why is having sex called "WooHoo"? And why the plum do supernaturals look like they came from Twilight?
I disagree with the poster who said that EA's dev team *has* to keep silent and can't reveal anything due to so-called "legal reasons" and here's why:
When I bought my first copy of The Sims 2, I looked at the back cover and saw that the first expansion pack was going to be University. When I bought University, the next expansion pack was on the back cover...I *think* it was Night Life.
What I'm saying is that when The Sims 2 came out, The Sims Studios were not shy about revealing what was coming next. And neither were they shy about telling us what the first EP for The Sims 3 was going to be, even though it wasn't done until about 3 months after the game was launched.
That being the case, what changed? Why, all of a sudden is it a legal issue having to do with the Securities and Exchange Commission polices? (Or words to that effect).
Sims 2 came out in 2004. That's 10 years ago. It's entirely possible that the current state of business law (and it's a complex area of business accounting that was pointed to) has changed since then.
But it's also entirely possible that you're not looking at a scenario that's any different at all.
I see no reason to think that we won't still be told about upcoming EPs with a reasonable window of time, when things are firm. That could even still be 2 to 3 months before EP release. The game's been out close to 3 months. We just might be coming up to that 2- to 3-month window before an EP. Personally, I don't think it will be an EP that includes toddlers, because extensive SimGuru-led September discussions about toddlers suggested they were just coming into development, and I would think that the first EP would have been planned before base-game release.
FWIW, the first Sims 3 EP came out over 6 months after game release. The game was released September 1, the first EP March 11. If we're looking at a similar schedule, then honestly, they aren't being more reticent than before.
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Half the time I wonder if anyone that actually makes the game plays the game. It seems to me that aside from programming this game, none of the people developing it seem to know how it plays or good ideas for what to put into it that they figure out through gameplay, they're always asking us. Frankly I'm tired of being an unpaid EA tester. I've been playing sims since TS1 and management on this series has gotten steadily worse. I'm hoping things improve. I'm actually waiting for an adult competitor to the sims so I can ditch this baby game and get into a sims that's a mix of GTA, Skyrim and Sims. I don't know if that will ever happen, so I'm stuck here with this unfinished teenager game.
I think in a lot of ways that's true. In a thread when I was talking to Sim Guru Lindsay she basically told me that they lost their way and found in hard to get in a simmers mind. I'd rather they said they needed unpaid testers or idea people from the fan base during development if this was the case-I know plenty of fans would have jumped at the chance! Instead they spent out on focus groups, which I don't think was the right way to go. Maybe they will have learnt that from this mess.
I do hope they have learnt quite a few lessons from the release of TS4. Any good company would want a decent period of publicity before the launch of the first EP. I am thinking if we haven't heard about toddlers by Christmas and there are no announcements about an EP in January then we need to be seriously worried.
I understand the developers might have a gagging clause on them. Why is that ? Well decent companies would have long term plans and strategies in place. I don't believe EA would be any different but something didn't go according to plan. I think since September the company has been having a major rethink. They are asking the Forum, sending out surveys and the developers are coming to talk to us. If it had all gone according to plan then the devs should be taking to us now about the first EP, showing us screenshots etc. So I think they are reworking the first EP, hence the gagging clause.
I would love to be more positive. I genuinely don't like this continued silence. It bothers me. I don't want to find myself in the New Year walking away from the franchise. I fell in love with this baby game a long time ago and I don't want it to end. I know a lot of simmers feel the same way, some having played much longer than me. As you say OP it is a mess.
That sums up exactly how I feel. I've been the most committed of fans and the way they've handled this is embarrassing on their part and upsetting for plenty of fans like us. That's a terrible start to a game! I've never ever, since the first sims game genuinely wondered if I will support a sims title. It's been a given-I always had everything on preorder, and now I genuinely don't know if I will buy anything else. It's on them-they need to make this right.
Seems they lost there way somewhere. The Sims were always about family from the get go. Along the way they brought in more and more of the occult with ghost, vampires, etc... I assume there is a fan base for that sort of thing but that's not what made this game great. I personally won't be spending more money on this game if they continue to ignore their fan base. I've spent far too much money on this game over the years to just sit here silent. I think by the first expansion announcement we'll know which direction they chose. Anyway, let's try to keep this thread going. EA needs to see we won't just shut up and be silent on this issue. After the first EP we should know if they care.
Thank you EA and thank you Maxis..we got our babies back, Yay!
We have to remember that it takes 18 to 24 months to create an EP. Just because they are released every six months does not mean that is how long it takes to make them. So EA planned the first EP long before the fans even knew everything that would be left out of TS4. When they planned the first EP they did not know that fans would be so upset that the toddler stage was dropped, so it is possible (maybe even likely) that the first EP has nothing to do with family play. Rumors are that it is a business-oriented EP (but who knows if those rumors are true?)
There is the possibility that they did intend to have all age groups in the game, as they originally stated, and Toddlers couldn't be completed in time for the release so they were pushed off into the first EP. I don't think that it is *likely*, but it is *possible* (for one thing adding a new age state messes with core game coding, so I *personally* don't think that EA would write code just to rewrite it a few months later). Frankly, I believe Grant meant it when he said "things change" and that one of those changes was the elimination of the toddler stage.
I am a pessimist - I think that we won't see toddlers again until TS5 - if they even make a TS5. But I would love EA to prove me wrong.
Seems they lost there way somewhere. The Sims were always about family from the get go. Along the way they brought in more and more of the occult with ghost, vampires, etc... I assume there is a fan base for that sort of thing but that's not what made this game great. I personally won't be spending more money on this game if they continue to ignore their fan base. I've spent far too much money on this game over the years to just sit here silent. I think by the first expansion announcement we'll know which direction they chose. Anyway, let's try to keep this thread going. EA needs to see we won't just shut up and be silent on this issue. After the first EP we should know if they care.
That's exactly why I started it. I want it to be clear to EA that we do exist and we do feel strongly about it.
We have to remember that it takes 18 to 24 months to create an EP. Just because they are released every six months does not mean that is how long it takes to make them. So EA planned the first EP long before the fans even knew everything that would be left out of TS4. When they planned the first EP they did not know that fans would be so upset that the toddler stage was dropped, so it is possible (maybe even likely) that the first EP has nothing to do with family play. Rumors are that it is a business-oriented EP (but who knows if those rumors are true?)
There is the possibility that they did intend to have all age groups in the game, as they originally stated, and Toddlers couldn't be completed in time for the release so they were pushed off into the first EP. I don't think that it is *likely*, but it is *possible* (for one thing adding a new age state messes with core game coding, so I *personally* don't think that EA would write code just to rewrite it a few months later). Frankly, I believe Grant meant it when he said "things change" and that one of those changes was the elimination of the toddler stage.
I am a pessimist - I think that we won't see toddlers again until TS5 - if they even make a TS5. But I would love EA to prove me wrong.
Sadly I'm starting to feel this way. The way they keep talking about how hard it is to add to the game post release. If that was the case then why didnt they push the release date?! I think people have been pretty patient about this so far, but I don't believe that helps our cause. It's easy to ignore us if we arent vocal, and to dismiss that this is an important issue to your fan base.
It's like EA is in high school clique mode. "I wanna do what all the popular, successful games are doing!. Let's go RPG!" Just. No.
“I was so sure that I knew what they needed and what I wanted to sell them that I never stopped long enough to find out what it was they wanted to buy.”
― Chris Murray, The Extremely Successful Salesman's Club
It's like EA is in high school clique mode. "I wanna do what all the popular, successful games are doing!. Let's go RPG!" Just. No.
That's exactly it GrayLady. Don't get me wrong I love a good RPG, currently playing Dragon Age Inquisition ...however I don't want that in my Sims games. Having a few goals to work on as in prior versions was ok but you can't accomplish anything career wise unless you meet these new goals in Sims 4...Anyway back on topic. I want my toddlers, family tree, bigger maps, and my sandbox back.
Thank you EA and thank you Maxis..we got our babies back, Yay!
It's like EA is in high school clique mode. "I wanna do what all the popular, successful games are doing!. Let's go RPG!" Just. No.
So much this.
I mean they do so much effort to keep up with the latest quirks. If i cared about the latest quirks i'd go back to high school. I'm losing my valuable IQ with EA TRY-HARDING way too much and failing miserably at it.
Am I the only who has noticed that when they tend to be particularly silent on a subject it turns out it's one they are working on? My guess is there will eventually be huge improvements to family play and that toddlers will indeed be added.
That is a change of policy however. With Sims 3 we knew months in advance what would come and actually that was fun.
I really don't understand why they're being so secretive. Not ontly now, but also before the game was released.
Half the time I wonder if anyone that actually makes the game plays the game. It seems to me that aside from programming this game, none of the people developing it seem to know how it plays or good ideas for what to put into it that they figure out through gameplay, they're always asking us. Frankly I'm tired of being an unpaid EA tester. I've been playing sims since TS1 and management on this series has gotten steadily worse. I'm hoping things improve. I'm actually waiting for an adult competitor to the sims so I can ditch this baby game and get into a sims that's a mix of GTA, Skyrim and Sims. I don't know if that will ever happen, so I'm stuck here with this unfinished teenager game.
I think in a lot of ways that's true. In a thread when I was talking to Sim Guru Lindsay she basically told me that they lost their way and found in hard to get in a simmers mind. I'd rather they said they needed unpaid testers or idea people from the fan base during development if this was the case-I know plenty of fans would have jumped at the chance! Instead they spent out on focus groups, which I don't think was the right way to go. Maybe they will have learnt that from this mess.
Isn't that what the Yibsims suppose to do, since they were picked because they are the *greatest* simmers in the community. All I've seen is agreement with whatever the Sims team showed them and pointing fingers at others in the community not willing to go along and voice their opinion. Calling them *not true Sims fans* if they don't support Sims 4. I think the failure was the Sims team being so closed minded with their choosing and propping up those people that are just *Yessims* instead of Yibsims. We were failed by so much in the community. I don't see how the Sims team could excuse not looking at the community postings or even on the Facebook/Twitter community. Yeah, quite a bit sucked up to the Yibbers and supported whatever they said but there was a contingency that did speak the opposite too. Greatest simmers my plum. SMH
Nothing to see. I don't even care about the forums.
Comments
Hope springs eternal.
"We Don't Care If You LIKE The Game, Just As Long As You BUY The Game!"
I Disapprove (Naturally)
I Took The Pledge!
If an Indie developer were to cut out customer satisfaction they simply wouldn't survive, most likely. I don't care if EA/Maxis/The Sims Studio is the only developer that has so far the best life simulation game. If they no longer care about the consumers/fanbase then I don't care to support them. Simple as that. It's just a game but there are so many better games out there and developers that actually listen and care and APPLY feedback where appropriate. Not all this talk and nothing happens. All that is is just pretending to care but don't give a care. "We'll pretend to listen just to get you off our backs but the reality is we don't give a care. You still buy and provide us with a paycheck, so be quiet and keep buying because you're not going to do anything drastic like stop supporting us. So it is what it is." That's how I feel they think. But of course they will make some things happen to give the illusion they are doing something. Besides if enough people had enough, then EA would have no choice but to focus more on customer satisfaction before calling it quits.
Anyway Indie games are pretty amazing. A lot of talent and creativity out there. I'd definitely like to buy more Indie games after I finish The Vanishing of Ethan Carter.
Stand a little taller
Doesn't mean I'm lonely when I'm alone
What doesn't kill you makes a fighter
Footsteps even lighter”
When I bought my first copy of The Sims 2, I looked at the back cover and saw that the first expansion pack was going to be University. When I bought University, the next expansion pack was on the back cover...I *think* it was Night Life.
What I'm saying is that when The Sims 2 came out, The Sims Studios were not shy about revealing what was coming next. And neither were they shy about telling us what the first EP for The Sims 3 was going to be, even though it wasn't done until about 3 months after the game was launched.
That being the case, what changed? Why, all of a sudden is it a legal issue having to do with the Securities and Exchange Commission polices? (Or words to that effect).
Sorry, but I'm not buying, and although there are players who are telling others to be patient, toddlers are coming, give me one good reason why we should have to pay for them via an expansion pack. Just. One. Good. Reason. Frankly, I'm more of a realist, and from having observed the Sim Studios' practices over the year, I know the Team will only make something if it's not too hard to implement in game play and builds on the framework that's already in the base game. Toddlers may have been intended to be put in, but I bet dollars to doughnuts, if toddlers had been included, they would have been rudimentary at best...a mere token of what toddlers were in the past. Even so, if they had gone ahead and put toddlers in the game in the first place, even if only on a limited basis, they wouldn't be having the problems they're having now. Sure, fans would have gotten upset, but they would have eventually accepted the limited toddler interactions.
As it stands now, any addition of toddlers at this late stage will probably be seen by the fans as too little, too late, especially if there are limited interactions involved. And, no I don't believe that The Sims team is even now secretly working on surprising players by plopping toddlers into the game. More than likely, they're working on the first and second EP's which have been planned far in advance and probably don't include toddlers.
"We Don't Care If You LIKE The Game, Just As Long As You BUY The Game!"
I Disapprove (Naturally)
I Took The Pledge!
@Jarsie9 I totally agree. As for those who say they've always been silent-I don't believe they have. They told us in September we were getting ghosts, pools in November and 'careers' in December. Two careers. Now there's rumours of eps. So where's the silence there?
At this point I think they are trying to placate people in the easiest possible fashion-so they don't have to invest much more money into 4. If they intended toddlers to be implemented why haven't they announced it yet even if they say in 6 months?! It would make people feel better and save face a little on EAs part. Instead they continue to let us wait, as players such as us feel increasingly marginalised and resentful of being treated that way. I think what they've miscalculated though is the depth of feeling over toddlers. It's not so much 'just' a life stage any more. It's a symbol for what is missing from 4-of the glaring omissions from the game because they kept cutting and cutting budget and staff until they ended up releasing and unfinished game at a premium price. They hoped everyone would just accept it but I think it surprises them and at this point people are making a stand. Those who didn't buy yet hold the power, but in a smaller way so do we, the ones who did buy, because we have the option to stop the money train if the ep is released and the base game remains incomplete. That's where I stand-a loyal customer who bought nearly everything the sims since sims 1. How many fans like that can they afford to alienate?!
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I think I'm just having a day of agreeing with you. Haha.
Regarding teenage heights, we were told there and then that their heights will not be changing yet everytime toddlers have been brought up they have stayed quiet and just said they couldn't say anything. This is just one example. (Don't make me give more though, just had a very long day at work
My fingers are crossed anyway.
I think in a lot of ways that's true. In a thread when I was talking to Sim Guru Lindsay she basically told me that they lost their way and found in hard to get in a simmers mind. I'd rather they said they needed unpaid testers or idea people from the fan base during development if this was the case-I know plenty of fans would have jumped at the chance! Instead they spent out on focus groups, which I don't think was the right way to go. Maybe they will have learnt that from this mess.
https://twitter.com/sparkfairy1
I do hope they have learnt quite a few lessons from the release of TS4. Any good company would want a decent period of publicity before the launch of the first EP. I am thinking if we haven't heard about toddlers by Christmas and there are no announcements about an EP in January then we need to be seriously worried.
I understand the developers might have a gagging clause on them. Why is that ? Well decent companies would have long term plans and strategies in place. I don't believe EA would be any different but something didn't go according to plan. I think since September the company has been having a major rethink. They are asking the Forum, sending out surveys and the developers are coming to talk to us. If it had all gone according to plan then the devs should be taking to us now about the first EP, showing us screenshots etc. So I think they are reworking the first EP, hence the gagging clause.
I would love to be more positive. I genuinely don't like this continued silence. It bothers me. I don't want to find myself in the New Year walking away from the franchise. I fell in love with this baby game a long time ago and I don't want it to end. I know a lot of simmers feel the same way, some having played much longer than me. As you say OP it is a mess.
Wherever I am friends call me Betty
Sim enim est vita
I'm a teenager and even I think it's starting to become childish. Why did they tone down the making-out interaction from TS2? Why is having sex called "WooHoo"? And why the plum do supernaturals look like they came from Twilight?
Sims 2 came out in 2004. That's 10 years ago. It's entirely possible that the current state of business law (and it's a complex area of business accounting that was pointed to) has changed since then.
But it's also entirely possible that you're not looking at a scenario that's any different at all.
I see no reason to think that we won't still be told about upcoming EPs with a reasonable window of time, when things are firm. That could even still be 2 to 3 months before EP release. The game's been out close to 3 months. We just might be coming up to that 2- to 3-month window before an EP. Personally, I don't think it will be an EP that includes toddlers, because extensive SimGuru-led September discussions about toddlers suggested they were just coming into development, and I would think that the first EP would have been planned before base-game release.
FWIW, the first Sims 3 EP came out over 6 months after game release. The game was released September 1, the first EP March 11. If we're looking at a similar schedule, then honestly, they aren't being more reticent than before.
That sums up exactly how I feel. I've been the most committed of fans and the way they've handled this is embarrassing on their part and upsetting for plenty of fans like us. That's a terrible start to a game! I've never ever, since the first sims game genuinely wondered if I will support a sims title. It's been a given-I always had everything on preorder, and now I genuinely don't know if I will buy anything else. It's on them-they need to make this right.
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There is the possibility that they did intend to have all age groups in the game, as they originally stated, and Toddlers couldn't be completed in time for the release so they were pushed off into the first EP. I don't think that it is *likely*, but it is *possible* (for one thing adding a new age state messes with core game coding, so I *personally* don't think that EA would write code just to rewrite it a few months later). Frankly, I believe Grant meant it when he said "things change" and that one of those changes was the elimination of the toddler stage.
I am a pessimist - I think that we won't see toddlers again until TS5 - if they even make a TS5. But I would love EA to prove me wrong.
That's exactly why I started it. I want it to be clear to EA that we do exist and we do feel strongly about it.
Sadly I'm starting to feel this way. The way they keep talking about how hard it is to add to the game post release. If that was the case then why didnt they push the release date?! I think people have been pretty patient about this so far, but I don't believe that helps our cause. It's easy to ignore us if we arent vocal, and to dismiss that this is an important issue to your fan base.
https://twitter.com/sparkfairy1
― Chris Murray, The Extremely Successful Salesman's Club
That's exactly it GrayLady. Don't get me wrong I love a good RPG, currently playing Dragon Age Inquisition ...however I don't want that in my Sims games. Having a few goals to work on as in prior versions was ok but you can't accomplish anything career wise unless you meet these new goals in Sims 4...Anyway back on topic. I want my toddlers, family tree, bigger maps, and my sandbox back.
So much this.
I mean they do so much effort to keep up with the latest quirks. If i cared about the latest quirks i'd go back to high school. I'm losing my valuable IQ with EA TRY-HARDING way too much and failing miserably at it.
I really don't understand why they're being so secretive. Not ontly now, but also before the game was released.