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Build Mode Feedback for EA

Comments

  • KaylyRedKaylyRed Posts: 309 Member
    edited September 2014
    Fabulous post, Bry! I think you hit all of my hot button issues and then some. I mostly love build mode, but there are a few frustrations.
    Allow us to copy a modular object. This would be such a time saver! For instance, if I have built an octagonal fountain, I now have the option to move and rotate it, but if I could also copy it, I could then quickly place a second instance of that fountain rather than building it from scratch again.

    A thousand times this! If you're working with a complicated roof style, it would be infinitely easier if you could exactly replicate a segment than to have to match the pitch, curvature, etc. I don't know how many times I've uttered this: "I wish there was a copy/paste tool!"
    • Circular, hexagonal and hectagonal roof shapes (9/23/14 requested by marrecar)
    • Ability to extend or shorten the trims on all roof types, including every edge. For example, the gabled roof can extend the trims only on the lower trims, while the side trims can't be extended. (9/23/14 requested by marrecar)

    Yes, yes, yes! And please add the Mansard roof to the list of roof styles. I know we can replicate it, but it's a pain.

    My own list (so far)...
    • Pot/can lights! I need small recessed lighting so I don't need to cover my ceilings with large lights in order to illuminate a room. OR...
    • The ability to make individual lights invisible. You know how we can set light color and intensity? Let us set the object to visible or invisible, too, while you're at it.
    • As I understand it, CASt is not coming back due to limitations with the new engine. That's fine, but then how about giving us an external tool for creating our own CC so I can easily recolor a wall on my own, or create a new wallpaper, or add a different texture to furniture, etc.? If we can't have CASt in-game, then let us have something similar outside the game where we can choose colors (with hex codes, eyedropper, etc.) and also import patterns (floral chintz, gingham, for example). I would pay for a tool like this, made by Maxis, that lets me EASILY recolor and retexture build mode items like walls, floors, furniture, curtains, etc.
    • Please, please fix the roof bug issue as discussed here.
    Download the Americana Series! Sears catalog kit homes and more from 20thCentury America. Additional manors and community builds in my Showcase Thread.| Origin ID: KaylyRed

  • BryonyRaeBryonyRae Posts: 5,181 Member
    edited October 2014
    Well, having gotten another build under my belt, I have several more suggestions/comments regarding build mode improvements (surprise!). I will also add these to the first post, but thought it might be helpful to see them grouped here first, as there are a good many!

    General Building
    • Working with the taller level heights was pretty limiting. In addition to the lack of doors/windows, we also need more wall styles designed for taller levels, i.e. with bands of color/patterns at top/middle. A mix-and-match option is probably too out there, but it would be pretty cool to be able to pick a style for each level, i.e. to be able to treat the levels individually. We also need more more objects designed to span the entire length of the wall.
    • Please provide foundations with colors/styles that will match at least some of the existing wall styles. I had a very difficult time coming up with a combination that didn't clash.
    • Please add curved walls. I can imagine these would be a pain in terms of roofing, but it seems like if you used pre-sets in the same way as with the curved fencing, it could work; the foundation's already taken care of.
    • Please consider adding platforms. These were a nice way to add a little height variation in TS3 without actually requiring sims to climb stairs.

    Landscaping
    • Please add some wall height fences.

    Roofing
    • I had some problems in my latest build with gaps in the roof wall. I had built some single tile "rooms" on the same level as the roof, and where the roof was one tile behind and intersected the wall, the roof wall went missing. Because the roof extended above the level of my "room," the gap was visible. I had to bring the roof forward, so that it passed through the "room" to the other side in order to fill the gap.
    • I would like the ability to apply a color or style to the underside of roofing, useful in cases of roof overhang.

    Doors/Windows
    • Please allow us to color the front vs. back of doors separately. In my last build, I tried not to let the orange doors defeat me, but in the end, they might have! This would also be helpful for windows.

    Decorating
    • Smaller collision boxes for non-interactive objects please. In many cases, the collision boxes are so large that you can't place the object up against the wall, which can look really strange in some cases, like with the shoe rack. The Falling Water Modern Fountain is another good example. You also can't get the object as close to other objects as should be possible. I'm not asking to overlap them; I think that should definitely be done via a cheat, which has already been requested, but placing them edge to edge, especially if they are non-functional, should be possible. Also, in many cases, re-sizing objects also increases (exponentially) their collision boxes. Again, with a non-interactive object, I wish this was not the case.
    • Shift-sizing up of curtains works well in some cases but not others. We really need more curtain styles that fit taller windows and look good that way.
    • Could we get bookshelves of the same style but with different contents? Often, you want to put in a row of shelves, but the absolute sameness of them looks odd in cases where there are books and décor placed on the shelves in a specific way. It would be helpful to also get bookshelves set to taller heights (or adjustable). You can shift-size them up, but they don't always go to the height you want or fit the space properly.
    • I would like to see some smaller bars that match with the counters; most that blend are the very large size bars.
    • Would you please also add some smaller end tables? Most of the existing tables are just too big when compared to chairs that should look big & cushy but actually look small by comparison.
    • Please allow us to re-size rugs, and there are some great rugs available that are just far too large for most spaces; I would love to see smaller versions of them (or be able to size them down). Another idea for rugs is to have modular rug pieces that we could fit together to suit the space.
    • Please bring back normally sized telescopes. The backyard observatory is way too big and dramatic for a typical family home. A normal sized microscope that sits on a desk would be helpful too!
    • Regarding the hidden door bookshelves, I love the concept, but please make them take up space like a real bookshelf OR make some wall mounted bookshelves to go with them.
    • We could use more very small sized pieces of décor; we can always size them up, so I'd rather start at the lowest common denominator.
    • Please consider adding ceiling pieces, i.e. to be able to create a tray ceiling. You can *almost* do this right now by re-sizing wall shelves and placing them as high up the wall as possible, but there are problems in rooms that aren't a simple square shape or when you want to create a shape within a room rather than just following the wall edges.
    • Sectional furniture - miss it and really hoping to see it make a comeback.
    • Bring fire pits back please. I would also like to have some electric fireplace styles in the game in addition to the more traditional fireplace styles we have now.


    Other
    • There are some strange things that happen with colors and the interior lighting. Please take a look. It's like instead of just brightening or darkening an object's appearance, the hue itself gets changed. I don't remember this occurring in TS3 unless you were actually using colored lights. I had a lot of this going on with window coverings in my latest build. This is also going on with exterior colors and lighting in different worlds as well (perhaps intentional?). For instance, I created a roof in Oasis Springs that looked off white with very little hue change throughout the day/night cycle. In Willow Springs, it was a glaring yellow color.
    • Some paintings create a weird shadow on the wall below them if they are sized up. The Superasymmetry painting is one example. I'm guessing that it's because these decorations have an emotional component, but since you can already interact with all of the paintings to "view" them, I'm not sure why this additional interaction would cause a problem in re-sizing.
    Post edited by BryonyRae on
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  • BryonyRaeBryonyRae Posts: 5,181 Member
    edited October 2014
    Information regarding the roof gap issue:

    In a recent build, I had created some single tile "rooms" on the same level as the roof, and where the roof was one tile behind and intersected the wall, the roof wall went missing. Because the roof extended above the level of my "room," the gap was visible. I had to bring the roof forward, so that it passed through the "room" to the other side in order to fill the gap.

    Here are some images which display the problem. It occurred with all roof types.

    09-30-14_10-30nbspPM_zps770cc43e.png

    09-30-14_10-29nbspPM-2_zps389d350f.png
    Post edited by BryonyRae on
    Visit my blog to see my creations: http://bryscreations.wordpress.com or search the gallery by my OriginID or #bryscreations
  • BryonyRaeBryonyRae Posts: 5,181 Member
    KaylyRed wrote: »

    As I understand it, CASt is not coming back due to limitations with the new engine. That's fine, but then how about giving us an external tool for creating our own CC so I can easily recolor a wall on my own, or create a new wallpaper, or add a different texture to furniture, etc.? If we can't have CASt in-game, then let us have something similar outside the game where we can choose colors (with hex codes, eyedropper, etc.) and also import patterns (floral chintz, gingham, for example). I would pay for a tool like this, made by Maxis, that lets me EASILY recolor and retexture build mode items like walls, floors, furniture, curtains, etc.

    Please, please fix the roof bug issue as discussed here.

    Kayly, I like the idea of an external tool made by Maxis, but I just really doubt it's something on their radar. As I understand it, modders have already created or adapted such tools, and EA doesn't want to be responsible for stuff people make outside of the game, probably even if you use their toolset to build it. And even if you built it with an EA toolset, you'd still have the issue of downloaders having to get the content as well in order to see it in their game.

    As for the roof bug issue, it looks like it's already on their list, thankfully!

    Visit my blog to see my creations: http://bryscreations.wordpress.com or search the gallery by my OriginID or #bryscreations
  • DippyDesignsDippyDesigns Posts: 1,808 Member
    If I could choose one new thing it would be half walls, I miss them terribly, they were so useful!

    The first thing I would ditch is the huge telescope and microscope - very silly and with the smaller lots there is no real space for them, I hate them!

    @BryonyRae Great thread and you have covered a lot of what I have been thinking. Glad to know they are working on proper flat roof options too as that is another thing I have had problems with.
    My Origin ID is DippyDesigns

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  • BryonyRaeBryonyRae Posts: 5,181 Member
    Hurray! As of 10/1/14, we have buydebug! If you haven't already heard the good news, once you've gotten the new patch, you can go into cheat mode and type bb.showhiddenobjects, then type debug into the search field.

    I was very excited to see the quantity of goodies in there! However, I've left buydebug as an open item in the list because I did not see mailboxes, invisible lighting, or a fog emitter type object. If anyone finds that any of those objects are in there, please let me know. Otherwise, I'm still hoping to see them added.
    Visit my blog to see my creations: http://bryscreations.wordpress.com or search the gallery by my OriginID or #bryscreations
  • yanti68yanti68 Posts: 19,016 Member
    I am excited that they have added buydebug items too! Unfortunately when you use it in your builds and upload them to the gallery, they do not show up! So anyone downloading your build wouldn't find the items you have used from the buydebug menu! I hope they fix this in a later patch! :)
  • BryonyRaeBryonyRae Posts: 5,181 Member
    I was disappointed to learn that too, Yanti. Can't wait for the day that all non-custom content transfers!
    Visit my blog to see my creations: http://bryscreations.wordpress.com or search the gallery by my OriginID or #bryscreations
  • rosemowrosemow Posts: 147,881 Member
    Do you think that the buydebug items might show up if the simmer had buydebug mode turned on when they placed the build into their world? @BryonyRae I was just wondering if perhaps that might work?
  • hmsdrco2001hmsdrco2001 Posts: 818 Member
    edited October 2014
    Other things I'd like:

    -Curved fences are amazing! In the future, it might be nice to be able to exploit both sides of the curved fence (the concave and convex sides). I'm attaching two photos as an example where I was trying to create a reverse curved railing on an upper floor, but I couldn't delete the floor without deleting the railing. And there were gaps in the floor on the opposite side of the railing. I hope my photos show better what I'm talking about.

    ReverseCurveFence2_zps0f32cf60.png

    ReverseCurveFence1_zps487af5e6.png

    -Ceiling beams and rafters would be neat--especially if we could draw them like fences and criss-cross them to make coffered ceilings

    -Low fences that Sims can step over. Would be nice to zone rooms and gardens and still allow the Sim to route through them.

    -If octagonal and conical roofs return, which I hope they will, please make sure they cut away the lower roof sections appropriately--this was always a problem for me in TS3 when you could see the roof on the inside of the house through windows if there was an octagonal or conical roof above.

    -Like you said, please allow collectibles and Sim-crafted items like paintings and sculptures to transfer. These add so much personality and individuality to a home and were so much fun to share in TS3--like unique nectar recipes, artifact collections, inventions, etc.

    -Allow upgraded appliances to transfer as they did in TS3. I thought this also added character, depth, and detail to our builds.

    -Allow ceiling light and decor heights to be adjusted, perhaps by dragging the mouse up and down or with the arrow keys, so that the suspending chain for a chandelier, for example, would lengthen and make the light hang at a more reasonable level. This is important in the taller rooms where those lights look silly suspended so high on the ceiling.

    -I don't know if I have a glitch, but when I rotate my lot, the landscaping/terrain painting doesn't rotate with it. This is kind of difficult if you need to change the orientation of a building on a completely different lot, but the landscaping stays fixed.

    -Ability to delete flooring sections without deleting the entire room's floor. I've had problems where I try to do this by adding a small room the size I want to delete, then deleting the floor and walls of that room, but the floor will pop back into place. Or if I somehow get it to work, the edge of the deleted floor section is still visible, floating in air.

    -Variable tree and bush sizes would be nice with each subsequent placement like we had in TS3. I know we can magnify with Shift + ], but that is sometimes way too dramatic. Subtle differences in the plant sizes would make things more visually appealing.

    -Gallery links or codes would be incredibly helpful for creators to share their work more easily. I know that the Gallery no longer works through an independent website, so I thought codes might be a useful alternative to website links. For instance, I could post on my blog or Facebook that I just shared a lot on the Gallery, and my friends would be able to find it by typing in a given unique code for the lot once they are in the Gallery. I worry that a lot of creations are getting buried in the heap because there is otherwise no way for creators to link directly to a lot or household they've spend a lot of time and effort creating. And as our catalogs continue to grow, it won't be sufficient to just have people look up our account to find our build because it might still be hard to find amongst our many other creations.

    -It might be nice to be able to choose from different camera shots when uploading a lot to the Gallery, just as we are able to do with our households and rooms. The automatically generated camera shot is sometimes not so flattering, particularly for houses built at an angle on the lot, and it might be nice to be able to choose from different perspectives to best show off our work.

    -Object fading is nice for gameplay but really bad for photography and moviemaking. For example, I use camera mode a lot when I take photos for SF Magazine or videos of my lots for YouTube. Right now, things like trees, bushes, columns, and ceiling lights fade and disappear when the camera gets close to them. I can see why that would be useful during gameplay mode, but it's nice to be able to see everything in the camera shot when we're in camera mode without having it disappear. The only way around it right now is to take shots in build mode, but that doesn't allow for the sophisticated camera movements, zooming, and positioning in camera mode.

    -It would be nice to turn off the blurring of distant objects in camera mode (like turning off aperture priority or making the focal distance infinite on a real camera). This makes capturing long distance views of our lots very difficult as they are often too blurry from far away, but zooming in to get in focus prevents us from capturing the entirety of the building or shot we want.

    -I echo your request for buydebug invisible lights, mailboxes, and fog emitters!

    Gameplay issues relevant to builders

    -It would be nice to be able to sell everything in the family inventory with the click of one button instead of selling off each individual item one by one.

    -Reading books is always a great way for Sims to improve their skills. However, there's an issue when the Sim goes to work or off the lot for any reason and places the book in very random locations instead of putting it in his/her inventory or on the bookshelf. That leaves the player searching all over the place for that book to continue reading after the Sim returns home.

    -The cheat options to fill Sim or household needs and disable need degeneration are great for builders, photographers, and movie makers. I've noticed that those cheats need to be continually reactivated, though, when Sims return home from work or go off of the lot. It would be nice for the game to recognize that those cheats are still active no matter where the Sim or household is located.

    Other

    -You mentioned that fences snap up to the foundation level, but I found that it depends on which direction you draw the fence. If you start at the foundation, a foundation level is added to the bottom of the fence, but if you start away from the foundation and draw towards the foundation, the fence will stay on the ground as you can see in this photo where the hedge fence stays on the ground as it connects to the foundation.

    Ashford2_zpse139afd2.png
    Post edited by hmsdrco2001 on
  • DieterPrivateDieterPrivate Posts: 459 Member
    KaylyRed wrote: »
    [*] As I understand it, CASt is not coming back due to limitations with the new engine. That's fine, but then how about giving us an external tool for creating our own CC so I can easily recolor a wall on my own, or create a new wallpaper, or add a different texture to furniture, etc.? If we can't have CASt in-game, then let us have something similar outside the game where we can choose colors (with hex codes, eyedropper, etc.) and also import patterns (floral chintz, gingham, for example). I would pay for a tool like this, made by Maxis, that lets me EASILY recolor and retexture build mode items like walls, floors, furniture, curtains, etc.

    Agree with this! It would be nice if we can add color variations with an external tool, and even share it in the gallery?

  • DieterPrivateDieterPrivate Posts: 459 Member
    • What I don't like now is that not all objects can be recolored by the recolor tool. Like fences and stairs. I know we can just replace them, but it would be nice if we can also recolor them with that tool
    • I want to be able to place doors and windows in between tiles. For example, putting a one tile door on a two tile centered. This would let us create finer architectures.
  • SunnyKegSunnyKeg Posts: 98 Member
    I agree with so much in this thread! My biggest current pet peeve in my builds are the walls, I want more color and texture options for realistic exteriors. I'd like more types of siding and more colorful siding, stucco, and plaster options - most of the current ones are about a half dozen very light colors plus red. In order to get the bright cheery colors I want, I usually have to just paint the wall and it makes my exteriors feel so flat. I'd also like to have wall trims that we can select and place ourselves as has been mentioned before, the auto placement just isn't working for me. And I agree with more windows and doors of various styles for every wall height and more color options for them and the roofs, trims, and fences. And I'll throw in a random landscaping comment and say I'd like to see some smaller ornamental trees.
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  • Frau_EngelFrau_Engel Posts: 43 Member
    edited October 2014
    I agree with so many of these comments: @kristinemancuso , @DieterPrivate , @hmsdrco2001 , @DippyDesigns . All of the comments, really. Thank you for starting this thread @BryonyRae ! I think this is very helpful and constructive.
  • yanti68yanti68 Posts: 19,016 Member
    Great new feedbacks everyone. :D
  • hmsdrco2001hmsdrco2001 Posts: 818 Member
    The "Wall Doesn't Exist" glitch on upper floors is paralyzing for builders. I can't think of a glitch other than the disappearing ceiling tiles in The Sims 3 that has taken more time for builders to work around. This is much worse, though--sometimes forcing us to have to rebuild an entire lot from scratch. And even when we get the walls the way we want them, we have to make absolutely sure they are exactly right because the walls may become "nonexistant" soon afterwards, and in all likelihood will. I'd settle for another few months without pools or other additions to the game if only this glitch would get ironed out. I'm pretty convinced it is caused by roofing because the most reliable way to get around it is to delete all roofs (courtesy of @Fischio7), then fix the walls, then replace all of the roofs (doesn't always work for me, but works more often than other solutions I've seen on the internet).
  • BryonyRaeBryonyRae Posts: 5,181 Member
    I have experienced a good deal of funkiness related to walls/rooms and foundation myself, Hms. I actually rebuilt my Acrophobia from scratch (once I had the structure completely figured out) because of it, and I'm experiencing some weirdness with my current build too. I have gotten a lot of "object must be placed on floors/terrain" when there is definitely flooring and terrain there. Creating a room around the problem area usually seems to resolve it. However, I have yet to see the "wall doesn't exist" glitch that you mention. Can you tell us more about the circumstances under which it is occurring?
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  • hmsdrco2001hmsdrco2001 Posts: 818 Member
    I think there is another thread discussing the glitch, and it almost always affects top floors and builds with somewhat complex roofing. Lots of people have been having the glitch. When you have the glitch, you can't manipulate the wall in any way. You can't delete it, paint it, move the room, or anything. If you click on it, you get a red box that says "Wall doesn't exist." It makes the entire third floor (the usual one affected) unusable practically. And because you can't delete it the walls or the room, you often have to start over from scratch because it's just stuck there.

    I am convinced now because of @Fischio7, that this is a conflict with roofing. I think walls associated with roofs (those ones that are placed with the roof) conflict with the real walls. And the game ends up getting confused as to which walls are real and which are associated with the roof segments, especially if they line up on top of each other.

    So now I have a new house rebuilt with no roofing. I'm saving the roofing to be placed until the end. That was always a no-no in The Sims 3, because roof placement was blocked by having objects in the room. It seems like that's not the case with TS4, though. At least in my few tests. It may mean that I have to build differently now--in reverse--saving the roof until last instead of doing it first. A bit complicated for figuring out which windows will look best.

    Even then, though, I expect that once the roof goes up, the walls will become glitched again, so I have to make absolutely sure everything is just the way I want it.

    I'm hoping they get this fixed soon. This is the most annoying glitch for builders I've ever encountered--rivals the disappearing ceiling tiles in TS3 that would pop up elsewhere on the lot floating in mid air. It seems like modern builds with flat roofs or very simple roofs aren't affected. You might not hit up against it with the modern builds because the roofing is different and less likely to conflict with the real walls. I had no issues at all with my modern build, and it had completely flat roof sections. A Victorian, on the other hand, can be a real beast.
  • DippyDesignsDippyDesigns Posts: 1,808 Member
    I have had problems with walls that don't exist too. I also found the lack of a chimney breast a problem in my latest build. It would be great if we had a selection of chimney breast pieces as well as the caps. I like the fact that we don't have to have chimneys as they did get in the way in TS3 and the selection was limited due to the fact you couldn't recolour them. I'd like to see a selection of chimeny breasts, one and two tiles wide, and some wood burning stove type pipes, while we are at it I wouldn't mind some drain pipes too ;)
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  • ManssomManssom Posts: 4,159 Member
    edited October 2014
    Manssom wrote: »
    BryonyRae wrote: »
    Manssom, I don't like the default gallery images either. However, I'm hesitant to add this as a request to EA because I can understand why it is set up the way it is and why they might not want to change it. I'm guessing that the primary reason is to prevent posting unsavory or irrelevant images. I also think that we will eventually get a program or mod to do this like we had in TS3 anyway. I'd like to take a "wait and see" approach on it for now.
    I was thinking more about a game feature that allows the player to choose and rearrange pictures.
    That way they don't have to worry about irrelevant images being posted :) But it wouldn't surprise me
    if someone else comes up with something like the image changer for TS3. Maybe the same person, who knows.
    Quoting this from the second page. Not sure why you didn't add this to the list of feedback?
    A feature in game that allows us to take pictures and attach them to our builds can't do any harm.

    It's worth asking in my opinion :)
  • simsinmysleepsimsinmysleep Posts: 558 Member
    This is such a great thread! There is so much to love about build mode in Sims 4 and a few little (? maybe not so little - I know nothing about programming) things would make me love it even more. I'd mostly just like to add another 'yes' to the votes of people asking for an official MOO cheat and, if not an image changer, maybe at least an image selector that would give us different angles and distances to choose from for our gallery pic. I mention distance because that would prevent things like this: http://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/comment/12793505/#Comment_12793505 (I'll just post a link rather than re-post those big 'ole pics). Though, even if we had an image selector, I'd still want a UIC from a modder. :)

    Also, I read through most of this thread, but I still might have missed it said... I would love the ability to change the color and brightness of light fixtures in build/buy mode.



    KGLsNuM.jpg
  • BryonyRaeBryonyRae Posts: 5,181 Member
    Sorry, guys, I'm overdue for updating this thread, I know! I've been buried in a building challenge, but I'm wrapping it up now. I also have to redo the index page for this thread. I hadn't realized when I first created the thread that there was a post text limit (although it makes sense, doh!), and I didn't reserve subsequent posts, so I've been trying to figure out what to do. I think I'm going to cut the index page down to bare bones entries (in terms of descriptions) and then link to pages with more descriptive text regarding the entries. I'd really love to actually host this somewhere else where it would be easier to keep organized, but I'm concerned that gurus (and builders) wouldn't want to follow an external link, so I'm just going to try to the best I can with what we've got here.
    Visit my blog to see my creations: http://bryscreations.wordpress.com or search the gallery by my OriginID or #bryscreations
  • BryonyRaeBryonyRae Posts: 5,181 Member
    edited October 2014
    Why I don't list CFE (Constrain Floor Elevation) on the index as a cheat we want in TS4:

    I’ve given it a good deal of thought, and while CFE did enable builders to do amazing and dramatic things when it came to architecture in TS3, it also introduced so many nightmares in terms of floating ceiling tiles you couldn’t get rid of, weird routing issues, and just plain corruption. Often, if something went wrong, the only option was to restart the lot from scratch, doing things in a different order in order to prevent the problem (only to wind up with a new one half the time). I think with the modularity introduced (and, I hope, extended) in TS4, and if we compromise by not trying to build into hills, etc., we will still be able to build some stunning structures without it. I realize that some of you may not agree with me on this one! Feel free to make your case.
    Visit my blog to see my creations: http://bryscreations.wordpress.com or search the gallery by my OriginID or #bryscreations
  • BryonyRaeBryonyRae Posts: 5,181 Member
    Here is an image of the Black Shadow on the Ceiling problem as noted in the index post. Specifically, this shadow shows up when you have opened an upper story to the lower level.

    whattheceiling_zps426bf5f8.jpg
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  • BryonyRaeBryonyRae Posts: 5,181 Member
    Can't stay up any later tonight, but I'm not yet done updating the thread - will have more tomorrow and will try to get all of the newest feedback added and/or discussed.
    Visit my blog to see my creations: http://bryscreations.wordpress.com or search the gallery by my OriginID or #bryscreations
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