Well, I did buy the game and have spent some hours with it now. Overall, my feelings pretty much echo those of the OP. There are some things I really like about TS4 and I really want to like the game as a whole . . . but . . . it just isn't quite there. All in all, after finding some delight in the new interactions and animations, I started to feel bored. Once that initial 'shininess' started to wear thin, I just wasn't finding much interesting left to do. Strictly my own experience, my own opinion, of course. YMMV.
A warning here -- some folks have said they'd like to hear specifics -- what we like and don't like, so I've thought about it and am listing some here. This is going to get long, so if you have no interest in reading the gory details, feel free to move on to the next post now.
Some specifics: Emotions -- yes, they're cool and fun. But when you boil it all down, they're just moodlets with fancy animations. My own conclusion: The TS4 team did a really bang-up job on the animations for this game. For the most part. I would personally be happy if they were a little -less- "weird" but obviously the TS4 team likes things a bit over-the-top and are very fond of caricatures. Even with that said, I find the new animations entertaining and a positive part of the new gameplay. Definitely on the plus side. The Sims really do look more alive than they ever have before.
Another plus: Multitasking. I love the way the Sims can now combine actions that make sense and are typically combined in real-life, rather than being limited to a strict queue. Overall, I don't know if it adds a lot to the game, but it does definitely add to it. I find it more satisfying when my Sim can field conversation from more than one other Sim at once, watch the television while jogging on the treadmill and so forth. (Yes, I know, there was some limited conversation sharing already, but it's been improved, I think.)
After that, I start running out of real 'plusses' for the TS4 implementation of the game though. There's the 'mini-neighborhoods' and the loading screens. While I do like the seamless 'open-world' feel of TS3, I also have to admit, it did cause some lag and stuttering at times. I didn't have all the trouble that I hear some folks talk about, but yes, there was some noticeable lag at times. So far, TS4 has been silky smooth. (Then again, TS3 was generally good initially, then tended to slow down after data accumulated. TS4 has yet to really be put to the test in that regard, IMO.) But I'll call it a draw, for the most part. I don't really mind the loading screens that much, but it does break up the flow of the game. TS3 had a much more immersive feel when you were watching your Sim travel, even though you may have actually spent just as much time waiting to for them to get to their destination overall. It's not a bad trade-off if it prevents the sluggishness that TS3 ran into.
The new sliderless CAS -- I also tend to feel they pretty much just broke even with it. The whole 'mold your Sim' idea is a neat one, but honestly, the mouse motions you need to use are not always as intuitive as it seems they should be (I don't blame the devs -- you're moving a pointer in 2 dimensions to manipulate a 3 dimensional thing, so yeah -- that's going to happen). But that does mean that the whole new UI thing is just not quite as awesome and triumphant as Maxis makes it out to be, IMO. At times, a nice set of optional sliders to supplement the system would be a great boon, I think. There's also the problem that the various ways you can tweak your Sim are not always readily apparent. There's no toggle to show little arrows (or whatnot) over everything to make the user aware of each and every place they can actually pull and drag. Until you're really familiar with the thing, it's a bit like playing one of those old point-and-click adventure games where the game was mostly moving around and hovering the cursor over everything imaginable in hopes that it would change shape to indicate you'd found something interact-able.
For me, it's pretty much all downhill from there. Building -- the ability to move whole rooms is definitely nice. That's a plus. Mostly, the aspect of the way the room's -contents- get shifted around. I can move walls all over in TS3, but the problem is that if there's an object in the way, it's a stopper. You have to move that bank of cupboards, all the appliances and so forth, then you can click and drag the wall. So TS4 has definitely done something good with the room tweaking. Everything else, however, has been decimated. (Again, IMO and all that.)
We now can only have 3 stories above the ground rather than 5. That's not horrific, as a lot of the time I don't know if you really go much above 3 stories. But it's a significant limitation and backwards move. Then we have the ground. It's utterly flat in TS4, and it seems Maxis intends for it to stay that way. There are no terrain tools, you can't build hills, and perhaps more importantly, you can't dig down. This means, no basements. (I really like basements.) The walls can be raised and lowered and have 3 different (preset) heights, but much like the foundations, the height change is carried out over all walls on a given level (at least, it seemed like that in the little bit of experimentation I did. Granted, that wasn't much.) So it doesn't seem like you can mix and match, and I didn't find any way to do the half-walls that we had in TS3, though perhaps I missed that. I've only done a cursory once-through of the building tools. I couldn't easily find the means to do such things -- heck, it took quite a bit of mucking about just to figure out how to adjust the wall heights. (Which is similar to my complaint about the new CAS. No detailed instructions exist, you just have to explore and hope to figure it all out.)
And then we get to what is for me probably the biggest negative for TS4 (I realize that some of you don't feel the same -- again, this is the biggest negative in my own eyes) -- the lack of Create-a-Style. From clothing to walls and floors to objects of every kind, I used CaSt to customize colors, match up woodgrains on furniture in a room -- all sorts of things like that. To me, the lack of this functionality is a huge drawback. I would, at the very least, like to see a color-wheel implemented to adjust the colors of existing textures. The ability to retexture in-game was a great boon, IMO, but I could settle for being able to match up colors though it's still a significant step down.
That's not even touching on the typical laundry list like no toddlers, no cars or bikes, no buses or carpools, no pools (and thus no swimsuits or swimming interactions of any kind, no diving boards), no burglars (and thus no burglar alarms), no rabbitholes, no dish washers or trash compactors and so forth. My thought is that any one of these elements alone is not that big a deal, and yes, we could probably do without. But when you take out -this many- little things, it kind of all stacks up into a pretty big thing.
All in all, once I looked past the cool new animations, I just didn't really see that much to the game that is TS4. Certainly it's got potential, but for something priced at the high-end of the going range for full games these days, it needs to have a lot more than just potential. While I'll agree it's not fair to compare it to TS3 with all the expansions, I'm not all that sure it really measures up to TS3 before said expansions. What's more, I feel that as consumers, we kind of -DO- need to look at what we have, right now, with our existing TS2 or TS3 games.
While it's not realistic to expect TS4 base to be everything, it's only practical to look at what we already have, and ask ourselves, "Is this worth spending my money on? Is it worth spending my leisure time playing, rather than playing all that I can with TS3?" Because, expansion packs or not, that's a real, practical measure of its worth to us as consumers. Paying out money for something we enjoy less than something we already own -- that's just not sensible. So yes, Maxis -does- need to actually raise the bar, and make something that's going to be significantly 'better' overall to merit our purchases. That, IMO, is where TS4 currently falls short.
well i have mixed feelings.im really trying to like it and thinking of ways ep pack can make up for the missing stuff. i really wanted to go buy it today but then, ive decided to wait and check some gameplay first.
i like the interactions the sims have thats for sure, but they seem staged too. i mean the moment the guy sits down on the couch with his friend they both wanted to immediately switch on the tv....some interractions and emotions seem a little too staged. same with the walk that is a little over the top. i like that they have different walks now but some are sooo cartoony they just feel a little try hard.
a lot of stuff will be added im sure, like seasons and im sure they will add pools and all that, but the create a style removal is a huge massive step bacwards.i love building and ive spent hours and days on creating beautiful houses and palaces and lots. i loved the caw tool too and made my own atlantis island for my mermaids in ts3. the non existent dragonage style sorta console like map that replaces the open world is the one thing that actually stopped me from buying it today. sorry but this one is a massive minus for me.
i know the open world created lag, but i loved teaching my teenager how to drive or sneak out or go fishing in the middle of the night in the middle of nowhere, i loved going swimming with my mermaid and i was somehow hoping sims 4 would maybe pick up on people wanting to be able to build underwater cities and maybe fairyworld later on and stuff like this. im very creative and i love building i loved caw tool in ts3 and having this terrible loading screen and terrible menu to go to a community lot kills the game for me.
as much as i wanna like this game as much as i love emotions and smareter sims and new ways of learning skills.
i wanted actually improvement where island paradise left off. with jobs like lifeguard in ts3 where u had to rescue people...thats how it should be for all jobs in ts4 as an improvement! thats would feel like a step forward. go to work and have the choice to do tasks with your sim at work. same with schools instead of a rabid hole, have a real school where u can perform tasks.
make it possible to build underwater and with the new emotions make people react differently to supernaturals, etc... thats what i thought would have been a step in the right direction.u cant just simplify everything and expect people wanting that so u can add a cartoon animelike interaction style... if they would have picked up where they left off, there would be more happy people now.
well this is my first impression of it, but without open world i doubt ill be liking this game. so i hope they will add this again and create a style and i might reconsider. emotions are interesting me for sure, but not at cost of everything the sims ever was!
Haven't bought the game yet for one simple reason.
Imagine you have a choice between 2 games. One has more features than you can count, including widespread customization. The other is very stripped down, but adds emotions. Which would you rather play?
The fact is, I won't graduate from Sims 3 to Sims 4 until Sims 4 offers enough to compete with Sims 3. Other people are entitled to their opinions. Right now, I'd rather stick with the game I already have because I personally don't see $70 worth of improvements at this time. We all had the option to wait and see how a game that wasn't released to reviewers early turned out. If you dislike the game, claim your 24 hour refund and go back to the game you love. It really is that simple.
There were a lot of thread in this forum yesterday showing people distaste and hate for the game. What happened to them i'm getting to the 4 to 5th pages and can't find them
So Ea trying to use censorship to keep the games negativity down, and along with that trying to control the reviews for the game so they can boost it sales the first week since game reviewers can't get the review out quick enough until the end of this week.
That's so shady. I feel for the people who come to this forum expecting everything to be better from sims 3 and realizing the game has taken huge steps backwards and not forward.
I too feel it's not worth 70 dollars, but this game isn't even worth 30 imo. It offers nothing of importance to me or new to me that i can't already do with my other games and more. So I feel EA failed this one this time around.
Haven't bought the game yet for one simple reason.<br />
<br />
Imagine you have a choice between 2 games. One has more features than you can count, including widespread customization. The other is very stripped down, but adds emotions. Which would you rather play?<br />
<br />
The fact is, I won't graduate from Sims 3 to Sims 4 until Sims 4 offers enough to compete with Sims 3. Other people are entitled to their opinions. Right now, I'd rather stick with the game I already have because I personally don't see $70 worth of improvements at this time. We all had the option to wait and see how a game that wasn't released to reviewers early turned out. If you dislike the game, claim your 24 hour refund and go back to the game you love. It really is that simple.
Exactly the same as I feel! 70quid for demon babies or an open world I paid for donkeys years ago? I think I know what my choice is
> @weebl_101 said:<br />
<br />
> People have to realize, that a game is there to make money as well as make players happy, if they were to put all the features players wanted to see in the game, they would simply not make there money back, therefore not going on with the franchise.<br />
<br />
I think that for the most part, we all understand that the object of a company in creating a game is to make money. And I think it would be fair to say that switching to a different game engine to accommodate those with inferior machines was a good idea, for both gamers and their (EA's) pockets.<br />
<br />
However, just about each time EA comes out with a new game, they become more transparent on the fact that their greed supersedes by a wide margin, their striving to make their gamers happy. SimCity is a prime example. Even this game and others this past year: Pre-orders close to a year before the game comes out? The (in my opinion) ridiculous prices on "premium content"? And from the looks of it, far less capability in this new game? It just seems to me like they're creating Wal-Mart-type quality and trying to sell it at Nordstrom prices. Even in the basic of economics, it's ideal to meet somewhere in the middle between your business and your customers, otherwise you're creating a surplus for the money-hungry.
No a game company should make a game for the love of the game, Then the money follows. That is the integrity of what making a game should be. EA has gone so far north of that concept in the last several years, even the players of any of EA's games doesn't remember that is what making games are about to those who make them.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
There were a lot of thread in this forum yesterday showing people distaste and hate for the game. What happened to them i'm getting to the 4 to 5th pages and can't find them
So Ea trying to use censorship to keep the games negativity down, and along with that trying to control the reviews for the game so they can boost it sales the first week since game reviewers can't get the review out quick enough until the end of this week.
That's so shady. I feel for the people who come to this forum expecting everything to be better from sims 3 and realizing the game has taken huge steps backwards and not forward.
I too feel it's not worth 70 dollars, but this game isn't even worth 30 imo. It offers nothing of importance to me or new to me that i can't already do with my other games and more. So I feel EA failed this one this time around.
Yes, I would say $30 at this point since I know music composers costs a lot. LOL. No, really, I agree with this. I can do most of this stuff in my TS2 and not have to rebuy because I don't like collecting and goaling as it is set up in the TS4. Everyone knows that, and yeah, my TS2 has more to offer at this point even if I uninstalled all my EPs. It's sad really because I was looking forward to real emotions and multitasking.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
In all reality, The Sims 3 should have never been made. Let's think about what all is going on there that people miss in The Sims 4:
Increasingly complex and vast family trees that are, essentially, endless.
Ghosts that never die unless you want to exorcise them. The longer you play, the more ghosts there are.
Eleven expansion packs. People who are remembering the long loading screen times from TS3 - this (and custom content) is a big part of that reason. More loading screens means that you have to load less at a time, which means shorter wait time (as long as you're not constantly running around town)
Story progression means that all of those Sims in those family trees have a back story. They don't merely consist of what is happening in the present, like every other game out there. Memories meant that some of these back stories even had screenshots to go with them. Think about how buggy Fallout 3 was. Now think about how buggy it would be if every NPC had it's own memories.
The Sims 3 was a great game from a fan service point of view. But as someone who works in IT, I have to say that it was a terrible idea. To those of you with higher end computers who say you've never had a problem - add the word "yet" to that. The reality is that eventually your PC won't be able to handle it. I got a higher end new computer, and it recently bugged out to the point of being unusuable. When a game reaches 120 GBs, it starts to have really long read/write time. A solid state drive will help, but even so, the more complex a game is, the more processing power it will need. And the Sims 3 NEVER STOPS GROWING IN COMPLEXITY.
Tl;dr From a technical standpoint, TS3 was a total failure. By going back to a TS2 model, the game may seem like a step back, but it was actually way ahead of TS3 on terms of design.
In all reality, The Sims 3 should have never been made. Let's think about what all is going on there that people miss in The Sims 4:
Increasingly complex and vast family trees that are, essentially, endless.
Ghosts that never die unless you want to exorcise them. The longer you play, the more ghosts there are.
Eleven expansion packs. People who are remembering the long loading screen times from TS3 - this (and custom content) is a big part of that reason. More loading screens means that you have to load less at a time, which means shorter wait time (as long as you're not constantly running around town)
Story progression means that all of those Sims in those family trees have a back story. They don't merely consist of what is happening in the present, like every other game out there. Memories meant that some of these back stories even had screenshots to go with them. Think about how buggy Fallout 3 was. Now think about how buggy it would be if every NPC had it's own memories.
The Sims 3 was a great game from a fan service point of view. But as someone who works in IT, I have to say that it was a terrible idea. To those of you with higher end computers who say you've never had a problem - add the word "yet" to that. The reality is that eventually your PC won't be able to handle it. I got a higher end new computer, and it recently bugged out to the point of being unusuable. When a game reaches 120 GBs, it starts to have really long read/write time. A solid state drive will help, but even so, the more complex a game is, the more processing power it will need. And the Sims 3 NEVER STOPS GROWING IN COMPLEXITY.
Tl;dr From a technical standpoint, TS3 was a total failure. By going back to a TS2 model, the game may seem like a step back, but it was actually way ahead of TS3 on terms of design.
My solution to the problem, move everyone to a new town. Done that myself and what can I say? Same Sims, same town, less loading and saving screens and if the file increases I will do the same again. Works for me and can work for others I guess
Hate to say it, but so many who are disappointed should have paid more attention. I did and that's exactly why I didn't buy the game. I KNEW that it is watered down... It was actually plain as day.
Worst of all for me, though, is how it adds nothing of significance. You simply can't get me to invest in a FOURTH base game when there's nothing about it that makes it more compelling than The Sims 3.
The Sims 3 may have been far from perfect, but at least it could set itself apart from The Sims 2.
> @Cinebar said: > msarbez wrote: » > > > > > No a game company should make a game for the love of the game, Then the money follows. That is the integrity of what making a game should be. EA has gone so far north of that concept in the last several years, even the players of any of EA's games doesn't remember that is what making games are about to those who make them.
I think you may have misread my comment, but in the end we've basically said the same thing, and are on the same page. Making a game for the love of it IS important, but as it is a business, "for the fun/love of it" doesn't guarantee that the bills are going to be paid. I have no issue with a company trying to make money to cover their overhead, or even to turn a profit. But there does have to be that balance I mentioned for it to work ideally in the long-haul.
There were a lot of thread in this forum yesterday showing people distaste and hate for the game. What happened to them i'm getting to the 4 to 5th pages and can't find them
So Ea trying to use censorship to keep the games negativity down, and along with that trying to control the reviews for the game so they can boost it sales the first week since game reviewers can't get the review out quick enough until the end of this week.
That's so shady. I feel for the people who come to this forum expecting everything to be better from sims 3 and realizing the game has taken huge steps backwards and not forward.
I too feel it's not worth 70 dollars, but this game isn't even worth 30 imo. It offers nothing of importance to me or new to me that i can't already do with my other games and more. So I feel EA failed this one this time around.
I noticed this too, I went to show my fiancé a few threads and they were gone and I searched this forum for 2 hours for them. But that is okay he got to see Amazon's reviews and did a little research of his own. EA can't delete or move those reviews. But the dishonesty of this company astounds me. When I told my fiancé I think they deleted the threads he asked me if I was kidding and I said I can't find the threads anywhere and it left him speechless.
If this game is so great, why the need to hide peoples or outright delete them?
I was playing this game for about 2 hours and got bored. Kept on going and got more bored. Some things really surprised me. NO DISHWASHER?! The "two worlds" are just differently textured, there were hardly any sims around, the plants were misnamed, there's just not much to do. The new emotions are stupid. My sims seemed very emotionally labile for no reason. Having to go through a loading screen to visit anything was annoying. Tried to make it interesting by killing off a sim (Bella Goth!!) She walked through walls, had conversations with other people in her house on different floors - it was dumb. The sense of humour seems to have gone. Very "going through the motions" game. Have applied for a refund after 6 hours. Reason: No fun.
In all reality, The Sims 3 should have never been made. Let's think about what all is going on there that people miss in The Sims 4:
Increasingly complex and vast family trees that are, essentially, endless.
Ghosts that never die unless you want to exorcise them. The longer you play, the more ghosts there are.
Eleven expansion packs. People who are remembering the long loading screen times from TS3 - this (and custom content) is a big part of that reason. More loading screens means that you have to load less at a time, which means shorter wait time (as long as you're not constantly running around town)
Story progression means that all of those Sims in those family trees have a back story. They don't merely consist of what is happening in the present, like every other game out there. Memories meant that some of these back stories even had screenshots to go with them. Think about how buggy Fallout 3 was. Now think about how buggy it would be if every NPC had it's own memories.
The Sims 3 was a great game from a fan service point of view. But as someone who works in IT, I have to say that it was a terrible idea. To those of you with higher end computers who say you've never had a problem - add the word "yet" to that. The reality is that eventually your PC won't be able to handle it. I got a higher end new computer, and it recently bugged out to the point of being unusuable. When a game reaches 120 GBs, it starts to have really long read/write time. A solid state drive will help, but even so, the more complex a game is, the more processing power it will need. And the Sims 3 NEVER STOPS GROWING IN COMPLEXITY.
Tl;dr From a technical standpoint, TS3 was a total failure. By going back to a TS2 model, the game may seem like a step back, but it was actually way ahead of TS3 on terms of design.
My solution to the problem, move everyone to a new town. Done that myself and what can I say? Same Sims, same town, less loading and saving screens and if the file increases I will do the same again. Works for me and can work for others I guess
I'm glad you a fix for their flawed game design. Fair warning, though - I also did this for about six months before newly created towns began crashing almost immediately. Whether this was because I kept installing more content or because of something else, I can't say. It's also pretty annoying to lose all relationships (which presumably cuts down on the file size and causes the temporary fix).
So glad I didn't buy this. You want to downscale your game for stability? Fine, lazy but fine. But to downscale the game, remove 80% of the features (including stuff as basic as the whole world not being flat), add in barely any new content and IT'S STILL RIDDLED WITH BUGS? I might buy this game in 5 years time when it and all of the expansions go on sale for £30. Until then I'll stick with Sims 3, because at least in that game there's actually stuff to do.
> @weebl_101 said:<br />
<br />
> People have to realize, that a game is there to make money as well as make players happy, if they were to put all the features players wanted to see in the game, they would simply not make there money back, therefore not going on with the franchise.<br />
<br />
I think that for the most part, we all understand that the object of a company in creating a game is to make money. And I think it would be fair to say that switching to a different game engine to accommodate those with inferior machines was a good idea, for both gamers and their (EA's) pockets.<br />
<br />
However, just about each time EA comes out with a new game, they become more transparent on the fact that their greed supersedes by a wide margin, their striving to make their gamers happy. SimCity is a prime example. Even this game and others this past year: Pre-orders close to a year before the game comes out? The (in my opinion) ridiculous prices on "premium content"? And from the looks of it, far less capability in this new game? It just seems to me like they're creating Wal-Mart-type quality and trying to sell it at Nordstrom prices. Even in the basic of economics, it's ideal to meet somewhere in the middle between your business and your customers, otherwise you're creating a surplus for the money-hungry.
No a game company should make a game for the love of the game, Then the money follows. That is the integrity of what making a game should be. EA has gone so far north of that concept in the last several years, even the players of any of EA's games doesn't remember that is what making games are about to those who make them.
These guys put it best around 2:25 into this video and the same exact thing should apply to video games IMO.
I thoroughly agree with Adam. But I can get past not having a dishwasher or a pool or a car. I can't get past the whole camera angle thing. That alone killed it for me.
Hate to say it, but so many who are disappointed should have paid more attention. I did and that's exactly why I didn't buy the game. I KNEW that it is watered down... It was actually plain as day.
Worst of all for me, though, is how it adds nothing of significance. You simply can't get me to invest in a FOURTH base game when there's nothing about it that makes it more compelling than The Sims 3.
The Sims 3 may have been far from perfect, but at least it could set itself apart from The Sims 2.
You are wrong though. The game is not watered down. Also you are wrong how it adds nothing. It is a huge upgrade from sims 3 from a rpg stand point, to how families act and react to the world around them.
Agree OP.
I had the chance to play the game w/o buying because a friend dropped off her laptop before leaving for vacation.
I was bored in less than 2 hours -and that included the time to build a house.
Someone said on the forums that they spent over 20 hours playing the game. I think that means staring at the screen as your Sim builds skills & does the exact same interactions over & over.
My Sim started a garden. Then that's all she had time to do. No sprinkler to water, so she was basically in the yard watering constantly until she made something to eat, went to the bathroom, showered, & slept. Rinse & repeat.
There aren't any skill books, so a bookcase is a waste of time. Since my Sim had to watch the garden (and it was small) she didn't have time to read a non-skill book anyway. Also, those emotions are a pain. I don't care that you're uncomfortable -go water the garden. What an annoying feature.
My Sim saw her neighbor in the yard & went over to say hi -loading screen. And not the 5 second screen guru's said it would be. And for the cheerleaders out there -her laptop was custom built & brand new with the best of everything. I secretly hoping she forgets she gave it to me
So after the loading screen she has time to say hi before those darn emotions pop up & she wants to go back home. Loading screen again.
I believe the emotions were only placed in the game to plum us off. (I typed the plum word, as it's just easier)
Took her to the gym. Loading screen. Talk, work out, bathroom. Leave to go next door. Loading screen. The same Sims that were just in the gym are now next door too. So much for finding new Sims to talk to.
Her emotions are annoying both her & me so go back home. Loading screen. She was annoyed at something (could never figure out what it was) so I didn't get her to go to the park yet.
She has to watch her garden, eat, shower, pee & sleep. Same things she did the first day. Basically she is stuck at home unless she goes to work.
I was never bored with Sims 2 or 3. Especially 3. The open World was amazing. Being able to change the terrain of your lot in order to build a distinctive/unusual home was so much fun. Going from the grocery store to the park as your Sim jogged from place to place -all without a loading screen, was a pleasure.
Why Sims 4 stepped back into time is beyond me. I don't care how many expansion packs EA makes for this game -they won't compensate for the Sims 1 style of the game or bring Family life back to what it should be.
On that note- I like to play families. Yes, maybe you don't, but I do. Well my style of game play was eliminated from Sims 4. Eliminated.
How would you feel if EA decided same sex couples couldn't be in the game, or unmarried parents, or friends of different sexes living on one lot?
Not a game you'd be interested in I guess.
Well, my way of playing was cut. Babies stuck to a bassinet is not a life stage. Having those babies change directly into children & skipping an entire life stage cuts from the family life I play.
I like to decorate a nursery -with the option of a crib, not stuck with the Sims 1 style of bassinet.
I like to teach toddlers to walk & talk & be potty trained & like that the older kids will help.
I like the kids to come from school & sit at the kitchen table to do their homework together.
All of this is eliminated in Sims 4.
I even tried playing the family my friend placed in the game. A family with 2 children. The kids had nothing to do. No homework, so grades didn't matter. Just paint or fish -but watch those emotions, they also get bored fast.
I thought these Sims were smarter? I couldn't even get them to eat dinner together. One took their plate outside to eat, one stood in the kitchen to eat, one child sat at the table and one on the couch.
Took the family to the park. Loading screen.
How long can you watch Sims play chess or play on the pirate ship? Then you have to watch their emotions again, because someone in the group will be miserable & you'll have to go back home. Loading screen.
Their home lots seem like prisons. They want to go back there, but then can only do the same boring things over & over.
OK, rant over.
My advice for those deciding if they want the game -wait.
Watch some LP's on YouTube & see if they hold your interest. There will be plenty of them out there to help you decide. The game is a lot of money for some of you, so don't jump into it only to maybe be disappointed.
To those who do like it -I'm glad your money was well spent & you are happy.
I'm going to give my friend her game back & spend my money on different Worlds & venues in Sims 3.
Let me start with two remarks: To people who think that removing the open world is ok or good because it prevents lag: Yes, the open world in TS3 caused lag (for most people) but that does NOT mean that an open world causes lag by default. It is perfectly feasable in this day and age to make open world games that do not lag. It is ok to hate open worlds, but do not say it is a good thing that it is removed because you think that is why TS4 is lag-free (for now). TS3 was just badly coded. Secondly, to people who say: "go back to TS3 if you hate TS4". Sure; will it get updates, improvements, will they finally get rid of the aforementioned lag? No, I do not think so. That is why (some of us) were so eagerly waiting for TS4. We hoped (stupidly, we now find out) that it would be an improved TS3. What I was hoping for? All the things in TS4 that are great (CAS, Build mode, more intelligent sims, no lag, short loading screens, seamless travel between worlds, etc.) on top of TS3. I would have been ok with smaller worlds and also with the option to teleport instead of travel (for those who hate open world travel). I have been playing TS4 for 4 hours now, and I am bored out of my skull. Don't give me that "TS3 base game was bare as well". In the TS3 base game I went outside, walked the town, went shopping, fishing, exploring, swimming etc. There was a whole world to explore! Now, it is just eat, sleep, pee, go to work, woohoo and talk to your neighbours. What else is there? Am I missing something? It is as I feared. I hate TS4 because it is so constraint and "small" compared to TS3 and now I also hate TS3 because I see all the neat things they put into TS4 and want them in TS3. I will persist with TS4, I want to like this game... I just hope for good EPs :-(
I don't know what to think; I'm a little disappointed, it's too cartoony for me, but I'm going to persist with it but won't be creating lots of families like I have with S3. I might like it more as time goes by.
I feel so bloody smart now... After the last few EA disappointments I promised myself not to buy anything for at least 2 weeks and seems it was a wise strategy. Thank you all for your opinions. I'm sincerely sorry for your money. Maybe press EA for a 1 week trial for future releases? Doubt they'll go for it though
Comments
A warning here -- some folks have said they'd like to hear specifics -- what we like and don't like, so I've thought about it and am listing some here. This is going to get long, so if you have no interest in reading the gory details, feel free to move on to the next post now.
Some specifics: Emotions -- yes, they're cool and fun. But when you boil it all down, they're just moodlets with fancy animations. My own conclusion: The TS4 team did a really bang-up job on the animations for this game. For the most part. I would personally be happy if they were a little -less- "weird" but obviously the TS4 team likes things a bit over-the-top and are very fond of caricatures. Even with that said, I find the new animations entertaining and a positive part of the new gameplay. Definitely on the plus side. The Sims really do look more alive than they ever have before.
Another plus: Multitasking. I love the way the Sims can now combine actions that make sense and are typically combined in real-life, rather than being limited to a strict queue. Overall, I don't know if it adds a lot to the game, but it does definitely add to it. I find it more satisfying when my Sim can field conversation from more than one other Sim at once, watch the television while jogging on the treadmill and so forth. (Yes, I know, there was some limited conversation sharing already, but it's been improved, I think.)
After that, I start running out of real 'plusses' for the TS4 implementation of the game though. There's the 'mini-neighborhoods' and the loading screens. While I do like the seamless 'open-world' feel of TS3, I also have to admit, it did cause some lag and stuttering at times. I didn't have all the trouble that I hear some folks talk about, but yes, there was some noticeable lag at times. So far, TS4 has been silky smooth. (Then again, TS3 was generally good initially, then tended to slow down after data accumulated. TS4 has yet to really be put to the test in that regard, IMO.) But I'll call it a draw, for the most part. I don't really mind the loading screens that much, but it does break up the flow of the game. TS3 had a much more immersive feel when you were watching your Sim travel, even though you may have actually spent just as much time waiting to for them to get to their destination overall. It's not a bad trade-off if it prevents the sluggishness that TS3 ran into.
The new sliderless CAS -- I also tend to feel they pretty much just broke even with it. The whole 'mold your Sim' idea is a neat one, but honestly, the mouse motions you need to use are not always as intuitive as it seems they should be (I don't blame the devs -- you're moving a pointer in 2 dimensions to manipulate a 3 dimensional thing, so yeah -- that's going to happen). But that does mean that the whole new UI thing is just not quite as awesome and triumphant as Maxis makes it out to be, IMO. At times, a nice set of optional sliders to supplement the system would be a great boon, I think. There's also the problem that the various ways you can tweak your Sim are not always readily apparent. There's no toggle to show little arrows (or whatnot) over everything to make the user aware of each and every place they can actually pull and drag. Until you're really familiar with the thing, it's a bit like playing one of those old point-and-click adventure games where the game was mostly moving around and hovering the cursor over everything imaginable in hopes that it would change shape to indicate you'd found something interact-able.
For me, it's pretty much all downhill from there. Building -- the ability to move whole rooms is definitely nice. That's a plus. Mostly, the aspect of the way the room's -contents- get shifted around. I can move walls all over in TS3, but the problem is that if there's an object in the way, it's a stopper. You have to move that bank of cupboards, all the appliances and so forth, then you can click and drag the wall. So TS4 has definitely done something good with the room tweaking. Everything else, however, has been decimated. (Again, IMO and all that.)
We now can only have 3 stories above the ground rather than 5. That's not horrific, as a lot of the time I don't know if you really go much above 3 stories. But it's a significant limitation and backwards move. Then we have the ground. It's utterly flat in TS4, and it seems Maxis intends for it to stay that way. There are no terrain tools, you can't build hills, and perhaps more importantly, you can't dig down. This means, no basements. (I really like basements.) The walls can be raised and lowered and have 3 different (preset) heights, but much like the foundations, the height change is carried out over all walls on a given level (at least, it seemed like that in the little bit of experimentation I did. Granted, that wasn't much.) So it doesn't seem like you can mix and match, and I didn't find any way to do the half-walls that we had in TS3, though perhaps I missed that. I've only done a cursory once-through of the building tools. I couldn't easily find the means to do such things -- heck, it took quite a bit of mucking about just to figure out how to adjust the wall heights. (Which is similar to my complaint about the new CAS. No detailed instructions exist, you just have to explore and hope to figure it all out.)
And then we get to what is for me probably the biggest negative for TS4 (I realize that some of you don't feel the same -- again, this is the biggest negative in my own eyes) -- the lack of Create-a-Style. From clothing to walls and floors to objects of every kind, I used CaSt to customize colors, match up woodgrains on furniture in a room -- all sorts of things like that. To me, the lack of this functionality is a huge drawback. I would, at the very least, like to see a color-wheel implemented to adjust the colors of existing textures. The ability to retexture in-game was a great boon, IMO, but I could settle for being able to match up colors though it's still a significant step down.
That's not even touching on the typical laundry list like no toddlers, no cars or bikes, no buses or carpools, no pools (and thus no swimsuits or swimming interactions of any kind, no diving boards), no burglars (and thus no burglar alarms), no rabbitholes, no dish washers or trash compactors and so forth. My thought is that any one of these elements alone is not that big a deal, and yes, we could probably do without. But when you take out -this many- little things, it kind of all stacks up into a pretty big thing.
All in all, once I looked past the cool new animations, I just didn't really see that much to the game that is TS4. Certainly it's got potential, but for something priced at the high-end of the going range for full games these days, it needs to have a lot more than just potential. While I'll agree it's not fair to compare it to TS3 with all the expansions, I'm not all that sure it really measures up to TS3 before said expansions. What's more, I feel that as consumers, we kind of -DO- need to look at what we have, right now, with our existing TS2 or TS3 games.
While it's not realistic to expect TS4 base to be everything, it's only practical to look at what we already have, and ask ourselves, "Is this worth spending my money on? Is it worth spending my leisure time playing, rather than playing all that I can with TS3?" Because, expansion packs or not, that's a real, practical measure of its worth to us as consumers. Paying out money for something we enjoy less than something we already own -- that's just not sensible. So yes, Maxis -does- need to actually raise the bar, and make something that's going to be significantly 'better' overall to merit our purchases. That, IMO, is where TS4 currently falls short.
i like the interactions the sims have thats for sure, but they seem staged too. i mean the moment the guy sits down on the couch with his friend they both wanted to immediately switch on the tv....some interractions and emotions seem a little too staged. same with the walk that is a little over the top. i like that they have different walks now but some are sooo cartoony they just feel a little try hard.
a lot of stuff will be added im sure, like seasons and im sure they will add pools and all that, but the create a style removal is a huge massive step bacwards.i love building and ive spent hours and days on creating beautiful houses and palaces and lots. i loved the caw tool too and made my own atlantis island for my mermaids in ts3.
the non existent dragonage style sorta console like map that replaces the open world is the one thing that actually stopped me from buying it today. sorry but this one is a massive minus for me.
i know the open world created lag, but i loved teaching my teenager how to drive or sneak out or go fishing in the middle of the night in the middle of nowhere, i loved going swimming with my mermaid and i was somehow hoping sims 4 would maybe pick up on people wanting to be able to build underwater cities and maybe fairyworld later on and stuff like this. im very creative and i love building i loved caw tool in ts3 and having this terrible loading screen and terrible menu to go to a community lot kills the game for me.
as much as i wanna like this game as much as i love emotions and smareter sims and new ways of learning skills.
i wanted actually improvement where island paradise left off.
with jobs like lifeguard in ts3 where u had to rescue people...thats how it should be for all jobs in ts4 as an improvement!
thats would feel like a step forward. go to work and have the choice to do tasks with your sim at work. same with schools instead of a rabid hole, have a real school where u can perform tasks.
make it possible to build underwater and with the new emotions make people react differently to supernaturals, etc... thats what i thought would have been a step in the right direction.u cant just simplify everything and expect people wanting that so u can add a cartoon animelike interaction style... if they would have picked up where they left off, there would be more happy people now.
well this is my first impression of it, but without open world i doubt ill be liking this game. so i hope they will add this again and create a style and i might reconsider. emotions are interesting me for sure, but not at cost of everything the sims ever was!
Imagine you have a choice between 2 games. One has more features than you can count, including widespread customization. The other is very stripped down, but adds emotions. Which would you rather play?
The fact is, I won't graduate from Sims 3 to Sims 4 until Sims 4 offers enough to compete with Sims 3. Other people are entitled to their opinions. Right now, I'd rather stick with the game I already have because I personally don't see $70 worth of improvements at this time. We all had the option to wait and see how a game that wasn't released to reviewers early turned out. If you dislike the game, claim your 24 hour refund and go back to the game you love. It really is that simple.
So Ea trying to use censorship to keep the games negativity down, and along with that trying to control the reviews for the game so they can boost it sales the first week since game reviewers can't get the review out quick enough until the end of this week.
That's so shady. I feel for the people who come to this forum expecting everything to be better from sims 3 and realizing the game has taken huge steps backwards and not forward.
I too feel it's not worth 70 dollars, but this game isn't even worth 30 imo. It offers nothing of importance to me or new to me that i can't already do with my other games and more. So I feel EA failed this one this time around.
Exactly the same as I feel! 70quid for demon babies or an open world I paid for donkeys years ago? I think I know what my choice is
Happy Simming
Simming since the last millennium
Peace
No a game company should make a game for the love of the game, Then the money follows. That is the integrity of what making a game should be. EA has gone so far north of that concept in the last several years, even the players of any of EA's games doesn't remember that is what making games are about to those who make them.
Yes, I would say $30 at this point since I know music composers costs a lot. LOL. No, really, I agree with this. I can do most of this stuff in my TS2 and not have to rebuy because I don't like collecting and goaling as it is set up in the TS4. Everyone knows that, and yeah, my TS2 has more to offer at this point even if I uninstalled all my EPs. It's sad really because I was looking forward to real emotions and multitasking.
Increasingly complex and vast family trees that are, essentially, endless.
Ghosts that never die unless you want to exorcise them. The longer you play, the more ghosts there are.
Eleven expansion packs. People who are remembering the long loading screen times from TS3 - this (and custom content) is a big part of that reason. More loading screens means that you have to load less at a time, which means shorter wait time (as long as you're not constantly running around town)
Story progression means that all of those Sims in those family trees have a back story. They don't merely consist of what is happening in the present, like every other game out there. Memories meant that some of these back stories even had screenshots to go with them. Think about how buggy Fallout 3 was. Now think about how buggy it would be if every NPC had it's own memories.
The Sims 3 was a great game from a fan service point of view. But as someone who works in IT, I have to say that it was a terrible idea. To those of you with higher end computers who say you've never had a problem - add the word "yet" to that. The reality is that eventually your PC won't be able to handle it. I got a higher end new computer, and it recently bugged out to the point of being unusuable. When a game reaches 120 GBs, it starts to have really long read/write time. A solid state drive will help, but even so, the more complex a game is, the more processing power it will need. And the Sims 3 NEVER STOPS GROWING IN COMPLEXITY.
Tl;dr From a technical standpoint, TS3 was a total failure. By going back to a TS2 model, the game may seem like a step back, but it was actually way ahead of TS3 on terms of design.
My solution to the problem, move everyone to a new town. Done that myself and what can I say? Same Sims, same town, less loading and saving screens and if the file increases I will do the same again. Works for me and can work for others I guess
Worst of all for me, though, is how it adds nothing of significance. You simply can't get me to invest in a FOURTH base game when there's nothing about it that makes it more compelling than The Sims 3.
The Sims 3 may have been far from perfect, but at least it could set itself apart from The Sims 2.
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> No a game company should make a game for the love of the game, Then the money follows. That is the integrity of what making a game should be. EA has gone so far north of that concept in the last several years, even the players of any of EA's games doesn't remember that is what making games are about to those who make them.
I think you may have misread my comment, but in the end we've basically said the same thing, and are on the same page. Making a game for the love of it IS important, but as it is a business, "for the fun/love of it" doesn't guarantee that the bills are going to be paid. I have no issue with a company trying to make money to cover their overhead, or even to turn a profit. But there does have to be that balance I mentioned for it to work ideally in the long-haul.
I noticed this too, I went to show my fiancé a few threads and they were gone and I searched this forum for 2 hours for them. But that is okay he got to see Amazon's reviews and did a little research of his own. EA can't delete or move those reviews. But the dishonesty of this company astounds me. When I told my fiancé I think they deleted the threads he asked me if I was kidding and I said I can't find the threads anywhere and it left him speechless.
If this game is so great, why the need to hide peoples or outright delete them?
Oh an hey Anavastia! Good to see you.
The "two worlds" are just differently textured, there were hardly any sims around, the plants were misnamed, there's just not much to do. The new emotions are stupid. My sims seemed very emotionally labile for no reason. Having to go through a loading screen to visit anything was annoying.
Tried to make it interesting by killing off a sim (Bella Goth!!) She walked through walls, had conversations with other people in her house on different floors - it was dumb.
The sense of humour seems to have gone. Very "going through the motions" game. Have applied for a refund after 6 hours. Reason: No fun.
Adam
I'm glad you a fix for their flawed game design. Fair warning, though - I also did this for about six months before newly created towns began crashing almost immediately. Whether this was because I kept installing more content or because of something else, I can't say. It's also pretty annoying to lose all relationships (which presumably cuts down on the file size and causes the temporary fix).
You want to downscale your game for stability? Fine, lazy but fine.
But to downscale the game, remove 80% of the features (including stuff as basic as the whole world not being flat), add in barely any new content and IT'S STILL RIDDLED WITH BUGS?
I might buy this game in 5 years time when it and all of the expansions go on sale for £30. Until then I'll stick with Sims 3, because at least in that game there's actually stuff to do.
These guys put it best around 2:25 into this video and the same exact thing should apply to video games IMO.
If only more AAA devs shared these guys' viewpoint.
You are wrong though. The game is not watered down. Also you are wrong how it adds nothing. It is a huge upgrade from sims 3 from a rpg stand point, to how families act and react to the world around them.
Sims 3 wishes it could be this.
I had the chance to play the game w/o buying because a friend dropped off her laptop before leaving for vacation.
I was bored in less than 2 hours -and that included the time to build a house.
Someone said on the forums that they spent over 20 hours playing the game. I think that means staring at the screen as your Sim builds skills & does the exact same interactions over & over.
My Sim started a garden. Then that's all she had time to do. No sprinkler to water, so she was basically in the yard watering constantly until she made something to eat, went to the bathroom, showered, & slept. Rinse & repeat.
There aren't any skill books, so a bookcase is a waste of time. Since my Sim had to watch the garden (and it was small) she didn't have time to read a non-skill book anyway. Also, those emotions are a pain. I don't care that you're uncomfortable -go water the garden. What an annoying feature.
My Sim saw her neighbor in the yard & went over to say hi -loading screen. And not the 5 second screen guru's said it would be. And for the cheerleaders out there -her laptop was custom built & brand new with the best of everything. I secretly hoping she forgets she gave it to me
So after the loading screen she has time to say hi before those darn emotions pop up & she wants to go back home. Loading screen again.
I believe the emotions were only placed in the game to plum us off. (I typed the plum word, as it's just easier)
Took her to the gym. Loading screen. Talk, work out, bathroom. Leave to go next door. Loading screen. The same Sims that were just in the gym are now next door too. So much for finding new Sims to talk to.
Her emotions are annoying both her & me so go back home. Loading screen. She was annoyed at something (could never figure out what it was) so I didn't get her to go to the park yet.
She has to watch her garden, eat, shower, pee & sleep. Same things she did the first day. Basically she is stuck at home unless she goes to work.
I was never bored with Sims 2 or 3. Especially 3. The open World was amazing. Being able to change the terrain of your lot in order to build a distinctive/unusual home was so much fun. Going from the grocery store to the park as your Sim jogged from place to place -all without a loading screen, was a pleasure.
Why Sims 4 stepped back into time is beyond me. I don't care how many expansion packs EA makes for this game -they won't compensate for the Sims 1 style of the game or bring Family life back to what it should be.
On that note- I like to play families. Yes, maybe you don't, but I do. Well my style of game play was eliminated from Sims 4. Eliminated.
How would you feel if EA decided same sex couples couldn't be in the game, or unmarried parents, or friends of different sexes living on one lot?
Not a game you'd be interested in I guess.
Well, my way of playing was cut. Babies stuck to a bassinet is not a life stage. Having those babies change directly into children & skipping an entire life stage cuts from the family life I play.
I like to decorate a nursery -with the option of a crib, not stuck with the Sims 1 style of bassinet.
I like to teach toddlers to walk & talk & be potty trained & like that the older kids will help.
I like the kids to come from school & sit at the kitchen table to do their homework together.
All of this is eliminated in Sims 4.
I even tried playing the family my friend placed in the game. A family with 2 children. The kids had nothing to do. No homework, so grades didn't matter. Just paint or fish -but watch those emotions, they also get bored fast.
I thought these Sims were smarter? I couldn't even get them to eat dinner together. One took their plate outside to eat, one stood in the kitchen to eat, one child sat at the table and one on the couch.
Took the family to the park. Loading screen.
How long can you watch Sims play chess or play on the pirate ship? Then you have to watch their emotions again, because someone in the group will be miserable & you'll have to go back home. Loading screen.
Their home lots seem like prisons. They want to go back there, but then can only do the same boring things over & over.
OK, rant over.
My advice for those deciding if they want the game -wait.
Watch some LP's on YouTube & see if they hold your interest. There will be plenty of them out there to help you decide. The game is a lot of money for some of you, so don't jump into it only to maybe be disappointed.
To those who do like it -I'm glad your money was well spent & you are happy.
I'm going to give my friend her game back & spend my money on different Worlds & venues in Sims 3.
To people who think that removing the open world is ok or good because it prevents lag: Yes, the open world in TS3 caused lag (for most people) but that does NOT mean that an open world causes lag by default. It is perfectly feasable in this day and age to make open world games that do not lag. It is ok to hate open worlds, but do not say it is a good thing that it is removed because you think that is why TS4 is lag-free (for now). TS3 was just badly coded.
Secondly, to people who say: "go back to TS3 if you hate TS4". Sure; will it get updates, improvements, will they finally get rid of the aforementioned lag? No, I do not think so. That is why (some of us) were so eagerly waiting for TS4. We hoped (stupidly, we now find out) that it would be an improved TS3.
What I was hoping for? All the things in TS4 that are great (CAS, Build mode, more intelligent sims, no lag, short loading screens, seamless travel between worlds, etc.) on top of TS3. I would have been ok with smaller worlds and also with the option to teleport instead of travel (for those who hate open world travel).
I have been playing TS4 for 4 hours now, and I am bored out of my skull. Don't give me that "TS3 base game was bare as well". In the TS3 base game I went outside, walked the town, went shopping, fishing, exploring, swimming etc. There was a whole world to explore! Now, it is just eat, sleep, pee, go to work, woohoo and talk to your neighbours. What else is there? Am I missing something?
It is as I feared. I hate TS4 because it is so constraint and "small" compared to TS3 and now I also hate TS3 because I see all the neat things they put into TS4 and want them in TS3.
I will persist with TS4, I want to like this game... I just hope for good EPs :-(
After the last few EA disappointments I promised myself not to buy anything for at least 2 weeks and seems it was a wise strategy. Thank you all for your opinions. I'm sincerely sorry for your money. Maybe press EA for a 1 week trial for future releases? Doubt they'll go for it though