I bought TS1 after having already played TS2. But even though TS1 was harder than TS2 it wasn't harder in an interesting way. It was just more tiresome to play.
I don't think that it would be wise for EA to just go back to TS1 style because it would just make people even more desperate for cheat codes like motherlode and maxmotives. Giving us difficulty levels in the game settings is a much better way.
I think this is an excellent idea! Sometimes I just want to create chaos on purpose but sometimes I really like the challenges and difficulty levels would be great!
I bought TS1 after having already played TS2. But even though TS1 was harder than TS2 it wasn't harder in an interesting way. It was just more tiresome to play.
I don't think that it would be wise for EA to just go back to TS1 style because it would just make people even more desperate for cheat codes like motherlode and maxmotives. Giving us difficulty levels in the game settings is a much better way.
Then why would I need cheats to make motives static? and or max them out etc. if difficulty levels are applied? I really don't think difficulty levels is what was in the mind of the creators of The Sims. Yes, they might add this to the game if The Sims Studio continues to make the Sims series..since it is a forumla of RPG games in truth, but if the 'old team' of Maxis was making TS4 (and not in name only) I doubt this would even be considered since make stuff easier for Simmers wasn't the idea or condcept of The Sims but having to earn those rewards..like better furiture, better perks and not so easy to afford either.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
I don't know why you think that difficulty levels belongs to RPG games because actually they don't. They were primarily used in strategic games instead (like the Civilization series which let us choose between 5 difficulty levels right from the very first game in the series).
The old TS1 team was headed by Will Wright and I agree that the game would have been different if he still was the leading game designer. But I am not sure that it would have been like you imagine though because he made many other different games too and they are not that good.
The problem with this series is that it is a sandbox game. EA hires typically game designers who have a master degree in game design. This probably means that they all are educated in making stratetic games, sports games, RPG games, action games and so on. But I don't think that they really are taught how to make sandbox games because sandbox mode is usually only something that are added to games to let people play on when they have solved all quests and completed the story. I have seen a lot of such games where it was obvious that the game designers didn't really consider how to make sandbox mode interesting at all. So I think that EA's game designers just have problems with the Sims games because they weren't educated to make games where sandbox play is the primary way to play. Therefore they try to add RPG and other things that don't really belong in this kind of games.
I'm not really a fan of the idea to be honest, this isn't really the type of game that should have basic difficulty settings in my mind. That's a cop out. But I definitely understand where you're coming from. The only kind of sliders or UI I would like that might effect the difficulty so to speak would be things that are going to be completely outside of my sims control anyway. So for instance is the area your sim lives in in an economic downturn or not? Are certain sectors booming and others stagnating? What is the cost of living in the area? That would be something that I wouldn't mind having control over, I'd quite like that actually and it would definitely have an effect on your sims wallet and ability to pay their bills depending on their career.
What they should do in my opinion is design a game that has enough depth and complexity that the particular difficulty sliders that you have suggested wouldn't be required because things like the trait system for instance among other things would effect the game play enough by itself to vary the 'difficulty'. And because you can create the sims you're still very much in control but it makes it all so much more interesting. Now I know they can only take a game so far and it's never going to be able to be anywhere near as complex as life really is but they could do a better job than what they've done for The Sims 3.
For instance (and I'm taking what we already have in the sims 3 as an example as we don't have any info on The Sims 4), putting a sim who is socially awkward, a total loner, hates art and is a technophobe into a career in the music industry for example should make it more difficult for that particular sim to progress because being able to network and put yourself out there is pretty a essential component in succeeding and making it to the top and your sim is going to struggle with that. Sure it wouldn't be impossible for a sim like that to have some success but it should be a hell of a lot harder for them as opposed to say a sim who is a virtouso, charismatic, a schmoozer and has a creative spark. And what is going on in their career should have a knock on effect in other parts of their lives. If I were that sim and you stuck me into a job that didn't suit me at all it shouldn't be long before I'm absolutely miserable and it starts to take a toll on other parts of my life. And even that is still too basic because careers in the game are too basic,but hopefully it gives you an idea of what I'm talking about. Having control over the economy and various sectors as I mentioned at the start of this post could also factor in here and make things a bit more complex and interesting for your sim trying to make a career for themselves.
The trait system as it is is also way too basic and could be expanded. As a small example, sims should be pretty useless at some things. No one can be good at everything even if they practice at it everyday right? Some people are not musically inclined at all for instance, so really why should they be able to skill up to a level 10 in guitar when they're tone deaf and be just as good as a level 10 virtuoso? Or why would they even want to pick up a guitar long enough to skill up to level 10 without feeling miserable about it. Then to tie it into my point above, stick someone like that in the music career (bearing in mind that in the Sims world musical talent may actually be required to be successful ) and see what happens to them. See how long they last before they get burnt out and can't pay their bills because they're not getting anywhere. And on that note, once again I think careers in the game could definitely do with an overhaul as well because they are too basic.
Now I know they touched on this sort of thing in The Sims 3 a little but they barely scratched the surface with it in my opinion. But they were on the right track, it just got neglected badly and ended up really underdeveloped. And in relation to that, I know a lot of people hated the moodlet system but I liked it and I'm not sure that getting rid of it completely would be a good thing. Because of the nature of the game ultimately you are in control and you can force your sims do what you want as opposed to what might be best for them, so if you take the moodlet system out completely how are you supposed to know how your sim is feeling and how they are being affected when you make the sim that is tone deaf play the guitar for 5 hours a day.
But anyway, take what they started in The Sims 3 and develop it further and there wouldn't be any need for difficulty settings I think.
I agree that difficulty levels haven't been used much in sandbox games. But even in such games there are exceptions because in a game like Capitalism 2 they were actually used in both quest mode and in sandbox mode.
The idea of more depth in the game without difficulty levels alas isn't realistic at all because EA want to make the game for young teens who normally don't play games at all. I don't believe that we can persuade EA to change that because the game would much less if it was made for hardcore gamers instead. The Sims games has always been for casual gamers primarily and even more as the years have passed.
But there is no reason why EA can't make us choose a higher difficulty level as an alternative to the default very easy game which hardcore gamers won't ever accept. It isn't that hard for EA to do and by doing it EA can expect that new types of gamers will play the Sims games too. The game will just sell better and EA can do it without losing the Sims players who just wants to build, buy clothes and have a very easy game because this will still be possible too.
The game needs something.
EA seems to be afraid that they may scare casual players off if they make the game too difficult. There are many type of players for this game, but they cater to the lowest common denominator.
I'm currently thinking about the rewards for University. In TS2, I had to graduate to get the benefits.
It TS3 University, I can earn extra traits, but you can earn a new trait so easily by climbing up the social group ladder. You don't even have go to University to do that. You can also by social group influence very cheaply through Life Time Rewards.
My sims don't have to do anything to become part of a Sorority or fraternity. They just move in like any old dorm. So basically there is nothing special about the Frat/Sorors in University. They are just gender specific dorms.
It just makes for a boring game, which casual players probably don't care, because they are casual and don't get into depth with it. EA also benefits by bored simmers because they are probably the ones that buy things from the store because they are bored and need something to spice up the game. I have been there myself.
So being more challenging is certainly on my list of features that will make me want to buy TS4.
I would like sliders such for;
advancing career: from 0% to 50% more difficult to level up
price Buy/Build: 0% to 50% more expensive
Skill leveling: takes 0% to 75% longer
social meter: 0 to 75% more effort needed
reduce needs: from 0% to 30% faster
fulfilling needs: from 0% to 30% faster
moodlet time: reduce moodlet time from)% to 30%
something like that gives a nice way to adjust to the way you like to play. the percentages are just examples
traits should effect some things too. like slowing the friend level down or faster decreasing the bladder need
this i wanna control things. in fact i wish i could make the friends thing slower even with the lifetime wish you lose friends fast it sucks and i dont want my game harder than it is some of us like the relaxing time playing not omg i need to make money constantly. it doesnt matter what you do money will always be easy to make if you abuse the game. 8 sims all doing painting gives you loads of money. but also playing with 20 sims really puts a dent in your money so money isnt a problem we need more things to do with it or maybe more realistic prices? or more expensive stuff. i for one can make a house for 20 sims and the price will be around 1 million. but still i want to relax while playing not freak out cause my sim might not be making enough money
I'm with you guys. I want some sort of difficulty in my game. Buying clothes, paying for taxis, realistic leveling up in the jobs for doing a good job and meeting requirements not just for showing up. Difficulty sliders might be the way to go.
I miss those challenge questions that popped up and if you answered wrong your sims goth demoted or worse fired. In ts2 you not only needed skill points but you had to have x amount of friends before you were promoted.
If we are given difficulty settings I want mine on the hardest. I need a challenge to keep me interested or I stop playing. I haven't played sims 3 in four months. I reinstalled 2 and have been playing it since. Sure I miss the create a style tool and open map but loading screens bother me less than the bugs, glitches, lack of difficulty, and painted on clothes of 3.
^this 100 %. In sims3 I never played "vanilla" families. I always wanted my sims to start with **** and end up with everything, through hard work. Downside was it didn't take too long...I wish i could go back to sims2, but my mother in an attempt to organize the house, put ALL my games in a box, and then the box dissapeared *cries*.....All I have left is the sims1 basegame, that somehow escaped the box.
I'd love to have a harder game. I like the difficulty sliders idea. I want options to make it much harder to get promotions and to get married. I used to play legacies all the time in TS2 because it was an actual challenge. Now I get bored because you can get easily married in a day or two and be rich in one generation.
I also really miss aspiration failure. Not keeping up with all of your sims' needs and wants should have consequences. It kept the game fun. I use mods to tweak some of this now but it'd be nice to have these as base game options.
I'd love to have a harder game. I like the difficulty sliders idea. I want options to make it much harder to get promotions and to get married. I used to play legacies all the time in TS2 because it was an actual challenge. Now I get bored because you can get easily married in a day or two and be rich in one generation.
I also really miss aspiration failure. Not keeping up with all of your sims' needs and wants should have consequences. It kept the game fun. I use mods to tweak some of this now but it'd be nice to have these as base game options.
I'm glad this thread was necro'd....I completely agree with the idea of difficulty settings.
For me, it's one of the best ideas I've read for a long time. It would satisfy nearly everyone, because those who want an easy game, can set it that way, and those who prefer more challenge can set it higher.
I guess the ones who may not like it are the devs, since they are the ones who'd have to put it into the game
Comments
I don't think that it would be wise for EA to just go back to TS1 style because it would just make people even more desperate for cheat codes like motherlode and maxmotives. Giving us difficulty levels in the game settings is a much better way.
It shouldn't be so challenging to make the game challenging.
Then why would I need cheats to make motives static? and or max them out etc. if difficulty levels are applied? I really don't think difficulty levels is what was in the mind of the creators of The Sims. Yes, they might add this to the game if The Sims Studio continues to make the Sims series..since it is a forumla of RPG games in truth, but if the 'old team' of Maxis was making TS4 (and not in name only) I doubt this would even be considered since make stuff easier for Simmers wasn't the idea or condcept of The Sims but having to earn those rewards..like better furiture, better perks and not so easy to afford either.
The old TS1 team was headed by Will Wright and I agree that the game would have been different if he still was the leading game designer. But I am not sure that it would have been like you imagine though because he made many other different games too and they are not that good.
The problem with this series is that it is a sandbox game. EA hires typically game designers who have a master degree in game design. This probably means that they all are educated in making stratetic games, sports games, RPG games, action games and so on. But I don't think that they really are taught how to make sandbox games because sandbox mode is usually only something that are added to games to let people play on when they have solved all quests and completed the story. I have seen a lot of such games where it was obvious that the game designers didn't really consider how to make sandbox mode interesting at all. So I think that EA's game designers just have problems with the Sims games because they weren't educated to make games where sandbox play is the primary way to play. Therefore they try to add RPG and other things that don't really belong in this kind of games.
What they should do in my opinion is design a game that has enough depth and complexity that the particular difficulty sliders that you have suggested wouldn't be required because things like the trait system for instance among other things would effect the game play enough by itself to vary the 'difficulty'. And because you can create the sims you're still very much in control but it makes it all so much more interesting. Now I know they can only take a game so far and it's never going to be able to be anywhere near as complex as life really is but they could do a better job than what they've done for The Sims 3.
For instance (and I'm taking what we already have in the sims 3 as an example as we don't have any info on The Sims 4), putting a sim who is socially awkward, a total loner, hates art and is a technophobe into a career in the music industry for example should make it more difficult for that particular sim to progress because being able to network and put yourself out there is pretty a essential component in succeeding and making it to the top and your sim is going to struggle with that. Sure it wouldn't be impossible for a sim like that to have some success but it should be a hell of a lot harder for them as opposed to say a sim who is a virtouso, charismatic, a schmoozer and has a creative spark. And what is going on in their career should have a knock on effect in other parts of their lives. If I were that sim and you stuck me into a job that didn't suit me at all it shouldn't be long before I'm absolutely miserable and it starts to take a toll on other parts of my life. And even that is still too basic because careers in the game are too basic,but hopefully it gives you an idea of what I'm talking about. Having control over the economy and various sectors as I mentioned at the start of this post could also factor in here and make things a bit more complex and interesting for your sim trying to make a career for themselves.
The trait system as it is is also way too basic and could be expanded. As a small example, sims should be pretty useless at some things. No one can be good at everything even if they practice at it everyday right? Some people are not musically inclined at all for instance, so really why should they be able to skill up to a level 10 in guitar when they're tone deaf and be just as good as a level 10 virtuoso? Or why would they even want to pick up a guitar long enough to skill up to level 10 without feeling miserable about it. Then to tie it into my point above, stick someone like that in the music career (bearing in mind that in the Sims world musical talent may actually be required to be successful
Now I know they touched on this sort of thing in The Sims 3 a little but they barely scratched the surface with it in my opinion. But they were on the right track, it just got neglected badly and ended up really underdeveloped. And in relation to that, I know a lot of people hated the moodlet system but I liked it and I'm not sure that getting rid of it completely would be a good thing. Because of the nature of the game ultimately you are in control and you can force your sims do what you want as opposed to what might be best for them, so if you take the moodlet system out completely how are you supposed to know how your sim is feeling and how they are being affected when you make the sim that is tone deaf play the guitar for 5 hours a day.
But anyway, take what they started in The Sims 3 and develop it further and there wouldn't be any need for difficulty settings I think.
The idea of more depth in the game without difficulty levels alas isn't realistic at all because EA want to make the game for young teens who normally don't play games at all. I don't believe that we can persuade EA to change that because the game would much less if it was made for hardcore gamers instead. The Sims games has always been for casual gamers primarily and even more as the years have passed.
But there is no reason why EA can't make us choose a higher difficulty level as an alternative to the default very easy game which hardcore gamers won't ever accept. It isn't that hard for EA to do and by doing it EA can expect that new types of gamers will play the Sims games too. The game will just sell better and EA can do it without losing the Sims players who just wants to build, buy clothes and have a very easy game because this will still be possible too.
EA seems to be afraid that they may scare casual players off if they make the game too difficult. There are many type of players for this game, but they cater to the lowest common denominator.
I'm currently thinking about the rewards for University. In TS2, I had to graduate to get the benefits.
It TS3 University, I can earn extra traits, but you can earn a new trait so easily by climbing up the social group ladder. You don't even have go to University to do that. You can also by social group influence very cheaply through Life Time Rewards.
My sims don't have to do anything to become part of a Sorority or fraternity. They just move in like any old dorm. So basically there is nothing special about the Frat/Sorors in University. They are just gender specific dorms.
It just makes for a boring game, which casual players probably don't care, because they are casual and don't get into depth with it. EA also benefits by bored simmers because they are probably the ones that buy things from the store because they are bored and need something to spice up the game. I have been there myself.
So being more challenging is certainly on my list of features that will make me want to buy TS4.
Thicker Than Thieves: A sim legacy story
^this 100 %. In sims3 I never played "vanilla" families. I always wanted my sims to start with **** and end up with everything, through hard work. Downside was it didn't take too long...I wish i could go back to sims2, but my mother in an attempt to organize the house, put ALL my games in a box, and then the box dissapeared *cries*.....All I have left is the sims1 basegame, that somehow escaped the box.
I also really miss aspiration failure. Not keeping up with all of your sims' needs and wants should have consequences. It kept the game fun. I use mods to tweak some of this now but it'd be nice to have these as base game options.
:thumbup:
For me, it's one of the best ideas I've read for a long time. It would satisfy nearly everyone, because those who want an easy game, can set it that way, and those who prefer more challenge can set it higher.
I guess the ones who may not like it are the devs, since they are the ones who'd have to put it into the game