TJ wrote - "Add to this the fact that most world builders are horrible house builders. They tend to have awful floor plans, and are poorly decorated. (because they refuse to use custom content) Given the opportunity, most players probably want to replace the world builder's houses with something nice." unquote
That paragraph is what got my dander up and you did insult the entire CAW creating simmers everywhere in my opinion.
TJ, I don't really care what you think of me, call me what you want, hate me, do what ever, say what ever - I don't really much care. If I can put up with living with Leukemia and all it's horrid medication side affects - well you don't hold a candle to it - I assure you - so scowl and growl away at me all you want. But when you insult all these fine people who unselfishly spend tons of hours creating and sharing worlds with us - I am going to get angry and retailiate. If I don't say it now - it might never get said, but by golly - YES, as long as there is breath in my body I am going to support people I know are being vilified even if you do not see your well known opinions as being vile or insulting.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
In dreams - I LIVE!
In REALITY, I simply exist.....
Hey Damien - That was a problem when we tried testing just adding a bar with bartender and a band area or dance floor to the showtime Venues - and one of the things I assumed should have worked if they fixed them, as I know I had been one of the ones telling the sim team simmers were not going to like not having the regular club bars in the Venues - and THEY told us that it would be a simport problem. Of course that was just one of several issues those Venues had with combining anything with them - but one they were aware of and which I assumed they would make sure would work as it was a hurdle they knew they would need to jump.
I do know there was a lot less problem though actually just adding a bar to the Venue than it was if we had a bar and added a Venue stage to it.It had to be the ST Venue namewise, not the bar, as if the bar was an after thought. Does that make sense? But using a bar to create a Venue - well That created all kinds of instability and lost sims. So their premade Venues behaved better than LN Venues or user made Venues. I had good luck though for a few days for EA's two private Venues in Starlight Shores for some reason. But for get the park or coffee shop one, or any of their Karoke bars. They were major fails. I never tried the Biggest Venues.
Damien, just wanted to update some info as I know some simmers have been able to combine some building that are not really good to combine if you are not as knowlegeable as those simmers - but I have seen a few combinations that have never worked well for me - I do not know if the reason is I don't use mods, so any simless world would give me a problem these people don't get because if prepopulating a world with the mods you can assign sims to the different jobs, but in the case of people who do not use mods or prepopulate if there is a world that has no sims and the user populates it through normal game play, the Salon, Tatoo Parlous, and consignment shop will not get workers if they are not on their own lots. Even Rflong can tell you the junk yard will cause the game to crash if combined with a rabbit hole. The Firedepartment also does not work right if combined with any other Venue, Rabbithole, or career business. I am sure with mods this can be accomplished for most of these, but not in unpopulated worlds for sure. But as far as I know the only one that actually causes crashing or big game freezes is the junkyard. You'd have to play a fire Department combination to see what I mean by it won't play right. Your sim won't always get credits for putting out all the fires if the building even performs as a FD, some don't. Other workers won't come sometimes, and a host of other things. Anyway, I hope that helps clarify, as I surely do not want people to think anyone is not being honest here. As it is possible to combine the consignment store and one member even says they have a working salon and tatoo parlour in a combination, but the jobs were assigned by mods and the worlds were populated. I know the "Mall" lot the person made and uploading worked fine in his game, but did not work at all in my game. It worked like it was an art gallery - no workers, and no options but to view stuff and in the beauty salon you did get an option to perform a remake or tatoo on another sim, but there were no hired stylists or tatoo-ist. Both the consignment shop and the beauty salon only hired people if the lots were by their lonesome. Also it should be noted that another creator mentioned that if you don't have a library in your town, that the book registers also will not work properly - I forget exactly as I never had a world without a library - but I think you couldn't buy any skill books from a register with out a library or something like that.
Post edited by Unknown User on
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
In dreams - I LIVE!
In REALITY, I simply exist.....
If someone wants to try to play the game with 200 plus sims, be my guest. I know it's not a good idea.
I have at least three games in progress with a population higher than 200 sims, and they are working just fine. Perhaps the problem is with the worlds you are playing, or your setup?
As for the number of residences, 50 is all you need for a functioning world -- max.
I have 87 residential lots in one world I play and wish there were more- so this seems to be your preference based on the way you play, and does not necessarily apply to others.
@Writin_Reg- thanks for the information, I was unaware of potential problems with some combo lots. I'll bear it in mind for my next world!
@Damienf519 - Thanks for this information, very useful!
I will choose a path that's clear- I will choose free will RUSH My Worlds
Now the funny thing is, people on this forum talk about evil custom content but never give any examples of custom content borking worlds. Meanwhile they ignore the elephant in the room, which is "cc free worlds" which have serious lag caused by too many lots.
The worst custom content I have ever encountered is a little something called "Girl Doll Dressed." Whoever created this thing managed to do something that caused it to attach itself to any sims3pack it can find and put its installer there. So once it pops up every lot, sim, tatoo, etc. etc. had 'Girl Doll Dressed' inside it, and would reinstall itself on everything each time anything it touched is accessed. In other words, it was a very nasty Sims 3 virus. At the time I discovered it, I had to completely uninstall Sims 3 from my computer at the same time that EA was noticing it and mass deleting everything on the exchange that had the object in it. This evil custom content didn't just "bork" my world, it destroyed everything. I had to start over completely from square one because of that one piece of bad custom content. And I never did find out which download gave it to me.
There have been cases where some accidentally bad custom content has turned Sims into malformed mutants. This seems to be a case where the content is causing sims of one age group to use outfits and skins from different age groups, causing stretched limbs which spike and go at odd angles. A more deliberate use of malicious content is to attach a few special skins to an object like a dresser. Just by downloading a lot with an innocent looking custom dresser in one corner you can find not just your world, but all of your worlds turning into nudist colonies, uncensored, and in graphic detail.
To be fair, actual bad content seems to be pretty rare. However, because the Sims 3 Launcher is just all to happy to install any custom content packaged with a lot or sim with no notification whatsoever that it's doing so, getting rid of any bad content you do encounter can be very hard. Sometimes, the best solution is to completely delete the game and reinstall it from disk and backup. I have unfortunately had to do so several times.
Now, whenever I find an interesting world or lot, I go through a complicated procedure.
1. Anything I want to keep I verify I have a backup for.
2. Then I completely uninstall all my 'Installed Content' so that folder in the launcher is empty.
3. Then I install the world or lot.
4. I check exactly what gets installed.
5. Then I uninstall it again to make sure I can.
6. Which involves starting a new Sunset Valley game so I can check all the in-game build and buy catalogs for anything that shouldn't be there.
7. Then I make a decision on whether I want the property or not.
8. Finally, what I want to keep gets reinstalled.
This may sound like paranoia to you, but I have been stung too many times by evil custom content to even consider anything less.
I expect there are a lot of people who feel an ugly lot that works the way it is supposed to is much easier to live with than a beautiful lot that bloats the catalog and world size with risky custom content. If you want to include beautiful custom content in your creations, that's fine. Just make sure to at least say exactly what you use in the world description. Hidden custom objects aren't going to win you any friends when people start to find out no matter how good looking the property is.
To be fair, actual bad content seems to be pretty rare.
Actually, your example proves my point. The doll problem arose several years ago, as I recall, before CAW was even released. The problem was fixed by EA in a patch, suggesting that the problem was more of a hole in EA's code than some sort of malicious act. The creator of the doll was one of TSR's featured artists, who has made some very nice items.
So that's it for your claim of bad custom content? That's all you got?
What you described does not sound like world borking custom content.
Now consider:
Bridgeport has significant lag problems.
Los Aniegos, at least when if first came out, had serious lag -- to the point of being unplayable.
We see a lot of posts here about creators having problems with lag. What do these worlds have in common? No custom content.
So, if I am to follow your reasoning: if you want a borked world, you will use one without custom content, because the problem worlds are all devoid of custom content.
Wrong again TJ, the bad doll issue IS NOT fixed by an EA patch - they actually had to take the site down off and on for two weeks seeking out all the content they could find that had the bad doll in it and they posted a thread up including the number of the doll so users could gointo their dcbackup files and manually remove the doll after also uninstalling it from installed content. To this very day every now and then someone still finds a missed old file with the doll that has to go through the same process. THERE IS NO PATCH that can fix it or remove it and there is NO WAY you can blame EA so stop trying.
- is created when a single bit of CC made while using a former version of S3Pe (mod) can still cause an entire world to go to pot as there is no fix for the blue lot issue. Once you have it - you have to delete the save and start over. You have to find the lot or what ever download you had made with that bad version of that mod and get rid of it. Unfortunately that version was used on a lot of the earlier TSR workshop so a lot of bad blue lot causing patterns and other content also ended up coming out of TSR. To this day it is still a problem if someone has one of those lots with content or patterns made using that mod. Don't say it did not happen as there is a post on this very site from the Creator herself stating the problem, stating there was no fix but to start over, and again she and her hubby apologized. Inje is a massively smart modder and I highly respect her and her hubby Peter and all they did for the Sims 2 community thanks to their constant updates and fixes with Simpe; and the Sims 3 community thanks to their work and abilities simmers can port sims into worlds, never mind make it possible for simmers to even have non-ea content in the game. You would be no where without the work the Jones have done, but even they will tell you there is plenty of bad CC out there and people making things that don't know what they are doing. Lots more of them than those who actually know what they are doing. That is a sign of someone who actually knows what they are talking about.
That being said, if world creators used a lot of CC in a world that came from some of those people who think they know what they are doing and don't, especially when it comes to content that forms attachments to EA content - you ended up getting this content into the very game itself because it attaches to EA content and removing the world did not remove the content. It ended up causing people to uninstall/reinstall all their games in order to remove the content, as even resetting the folders did not remove it. I have seen content from EA matched doors, windows, cabinets tops, to decor, to plants, to various pieces of clothing that form these attachments and if they come in your game via a world - even if you have the object DCbackup file number and remove that, you cannot remove it from the world, so it keeps getting put back into your game. There is even a couple outfits - some Shymoo stuff, some watermark stuff, an outfit that has a horse body, naked top and bottoms, Vampire shirt makes stick babies, some shoes, even a couple tatoos, some hairs including a popular childs hair from a well known long time creator of Sims stuff/hairs - too much stuff to name it all that can get into your game via a family download or via a world that has been populated that creates havoc long after the household, lot, or world has been removed from your game - and reappears after a total resset of the Sims 3 folder. Nothing but a total uninstall will remove it. I don't know about every body but I can make a lot better use of a whole day and night wasted on uninstalling - reinstalling everything - having to start from scratch because I have no clue from whince the content came so I can't even reinstall my back up. Of course in my own personal case that will never happen because I use custard to check everything - I see CC and will not install period. Simply because of a few bad apple my CC barrel is spoiled and I will never support the idea a world should have CC because I know what can happen when you do get the bad stuff. Plus what happens to a world full of mods and CC every time EA recodes the game? All that crap in the worlds needs to be replaced. Who wants a world they have to keep starting over. But unlike you TJ, I have approximately 32 non-EA world in my game that all have over 150 sims in each, no CC at all, and my saves are well over a year old and these worlds i can jump into any time and play for weeks at a time and I still have ZERO lag or freezing or hiccups. So no all worlds are not destined for failure without CC. I also have at least 120 or more lots in each of these large map big worlds.
But the most concerning factor using CC in worlds is the fact the user cannot remove the CC, it will come back every time you restart your computer - only the creator of the world can remove it by taking the world back into CAW - so as long as it exists this way I will continue to only test or play worlds made without CC, CC should be an option for the user - and it is not - it is the option of the creator if they use CC and the world will not work properly without - it becomes them deciding for me - so I have decided a long time ago, I will not even test those worlds period seeing I have no options about the CC content.
Oh and when the evil doll came out we did have CAW, I was playing in Fort Sims by EHaught as well as in Lee Mortis's worlds when a Beatrice Potter farmstead lot came on the build forum that I downloaded that had that miserable little doll in the farm house. I was also one of the first here to discover how evil the little doll really was. It was around the same time Lemon candy had a bunch of CC houseplants also go bad due to coding changes that was actually crashing pcs. I did not experience that, but I know plenty of people that do and who love lemon candy decor and plants - but she has been badly bitten by coding changes before as has all the many people who download her very beautiful decor. Unfortunately no matter how great it looks it is CC and there fore can easily "go bad".
Post edited by Unknown User on
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
In dreams - I LIVE!
In REALITY, I simply exist.....
With TS2, I had my hard drive packed full of CC. I couldnt get enough. I was even a member of several PAY sites, just to download custom clothes, furniture, skins, etc.
With TS3, I will not put any CC of any kind. Not recolors, patterns, terrains, anything. If CAW doesnt have it, right-out-of-the-box, I dont use it.
For me, it was a matter of having a smooth running game or not. I like it running very smooth.
I do use mods though. Which could be considered CC. :roll:
Not really the same catagory in my veiw Doc - I find many mods are helpful - like S3pe and Twallan's mods that fix so much. Generally Modders know a bit about coding and often a lot about programming - so they tend to be more cautious than people who just see an item in life and "must have it in their game" even if it is nothing but decor - which a lot of CC actually is. It does nothing at all but makes you wish it would actually do something. I find a lot of CC equivalent to having a lot of really big 3 D pictures or statues in your world - but generally because they do nothing they are not big memory users like the CAS CC - much of which has to adopt a bit of EA's animations to work right. There are hairs out there with astonishing 135 mb in size - most worlds are not that big and just multiply that by all the sims using that one hair. Who has just one hair? Next thing you know crashing game, Error 12's all over the place and hard freezes because windows can't find any more memory. Makes me laugh when a simmer with 3 gigs of ram, all games, all store stuff and windows 7 says the game must have a memory leak as I on have a set of default skins for all ages and maybe two dozen hair - do's - then multiply that by all those sims in their world and it makes you wonder - where is the memory leak - in the game - or in that simmers sense of logic? It doesn't add up so it must be the games fault. THAT is why the games crashing, freezes even if you had LAA and DEP. But you can't tell them - especially when they say well I have added nothing for months and suddenly I add one new set from the store and now my game is frozen. Duh, they don't happen to see how many sims the game has added wearing those skins and hairs since the hairs etc were added? Perhaps adding another 100 mb set was just more than their poor pc could handle and that is if all the CC is actually considered "Good CC" with no problems - ON THEIR OWN.
People do not realize what amount of ram the game with all eps and sps and all the store stuff needs - add to that every non-ea world they have added, add to that the operationg system, the background tasks, and then add the non EA content, the houses they have downloaded and other lots - all that stuff - then start multiplying all that by each house, lot, etc in the world - each sim using and wearing all that CC - it's not a memory leak - it's buy a whole lot more memory and a super computer and just maybe you might get it all to chug along - but if you were smart you'd remove any hair over 20 mb to start with and anything else that might be in multiple use and not utilized by the game.
Mods on the other hand do tons of things and use zilch for ram. On top of it they sit in a mod folder and never antagonize the launcher. If anything some mods help the game - I fully admit that even though I am not known to use them - I try and solve issues the hard way to learn work a rounds as I don't like the hassles of removing and adding things all the time - but I highly respect modders and the way they stay on top of their content to make sure it works well with the game - unlike what I call CC creators who feel they are "above the law" regarding non-EA installed content.
Even EA does not escape updating all their content - hince why the WE runs like crap for placing lots - update it EA to keep it from breaking routing after 4 lots. So why do CC creators not see they need to do this - modders DO.
Post edited by Unknown User on
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
In dreams - I LIVE!
In REALITY, I simply exist.....
Just for the record with Zero CC or mods - my game without any of my saves added in and with only 3 user created worlds are the following
Under my Documents -
9.45 gb
It has 5,633 files in 34 folders
Under Program files -
6.50 gb
It has 1,923 files in 155 folders
So my game is 16mb with no CC and before I add the other 32 worlds I generally have in my game with their 48 save folders. Which if I recall is around another 9 gb -
SO WITH NO cc AT ALL AND NO MODS my regular everyday game just sitting here on my pc needs 25gb just to do nothing but be on my pc. I do have 99.8 percent of the store and all the store worlds and that stuff is counted in the first total as all of that is on my pc at present.
I am presently doing routine maintenance and getting prepared for the upcoming SN - as that is the only reason all my stuff is not back in my folders yet -
But that gives you a clue of the size ALL eps, sps, and store stuff requires with out extra worlds, saves, and absolutely no mods or CC need just for a pure Vanilla game.
I do have a super computer and I do have 8 gigs of Crucial high speed gaming ram. My Asus motherboard will take up to 32 gigs of this gaming ram and my hubby is a certified pc tech and works for a publishing company as the head of their inhouse techs for the last 19 years. He builds my machines every 18 month or so. Number of sims in a world has never been an issue for me either.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
In dreams - I LIVE!
In REALITY, I simply exist.....
Ah yes, I knew we would hear from the Mistress of Superstition and Ignorance!
Written Reg, I really don't see how you are qualified to comment here. You don't create anything. You have, from what I can tell, never made any cc items for the Sims 3 and appear to be totally clueless as to how items are made. Also, you don't make worlds, so you really have no idea of what goes into building a world. You play plain vanilla games and shy away from anything innovative or new. I don't know why anyone would pay any attention to you because you simply have no first hand experience with cc. Everything you post is gossip.
First, since the Sims 3 is a 32 bit application, it can only access 4gb of memory. Period. That's a hard limit. Actually, for the Sims, it's a little less, at about 3.7 gigs, the game becomes unstable. (This is from Twallan.) The remainder of your memory is worthless. I just thought I should clarify that for you.
As far as world building goes, which is what this forum is about, the types of cc we are talking about is rather limited.
Usually, when one talks about bad cc, one is talking about CAS items. This is where most of the problem cc seems to appear, and most of these bad items are several years old. If a world is unpopulated, which the vast majority of worlds are, we are not talking about CAS items, because there are are no sims in an unpopulated world. Hence there is no CAS items in an unpopulated world. So anything having to do with clothes, hair, etc, are red herrings for the purposes of this discussion.
We could be talking about bad furniture items since they appear on lots. And I agree that lots are a type of cc which can cause many problems. However, I am unaware of any bad furniture cc out there. They don't seem to appear on Crinct's blog. You didn't list any. So, it is probably fair to say that bad furniture cc is few and far between, if it exists at all.
As far as mods, again these typically are not part of an uploaded world. There are things that players add to their own worlds. But for the most part, mods fix problems in the game. Problems, which, for example, cause lag. For examples of the things fixed my mods see http://nraas.wikispaces.com/General+Issues+FAQ#Sim%20Deletion I think that just about everyone would agree that fixing these bugs actually helps the game considerably.
Now as for metadata items (i.e. items one finds in create a world), I agree that these largely are decorative. I also have a little bit of experience in making these things.
The reason we don't see more animated items is because most creators don't understand animations yet. At least, this one doesn't. For one, I would love to have my ferris wheel go round and round, my roller coaster have cars that travel along the rails, my trains go up and down the tracks, my monorail follow its route around town,my ships being loaded in port, my ferries traveling across the game world, and my airplanes take off from a runway and fly across the world. If I knew how to do this, it would be pretty awesome.
But even as it is, my world is looking pretty awesome. And worlds which use these items, like Manustyle's New York, and some of the other worlds being shown on Mod the Sims look pretty good, too.
But these items have another advantage: they are easier on your computer. Ask yourself this: what do you think poses a greater burden on your computer (1) hundreds and hundreds of lots, each containing their own in game buildings with hundreds of thousands of vertices and polygons, or (2) a metadata building consisting of four vertices, 10 polygons, and one 512 x 512 texture?
And what is going to cause you to have error 12 messages sooner? Hundreds of lots or hundreds of metadata items?
I have been packing my world with metadata items about just as quickly as I make them. They range from relatively tiny items, to absolutely gigantic items (like distant terrain, entire neighborhoods, and my entire monorail network as one object). I have hundreds of this type of cc, and am not having problems with these items. So when I see you complaining about these things, I think you are nuts.
For goodness' sake, her name is Writin_Reg. How difficult is it to copy paste?
You know tjstreak, I'm largely with you on this argument as I agree that CC is not harmful when used correctly- although, As I've mentioned before, I would advise against packaging the CC in the Sims3Pack with the world (as this can cause the world to break should the CC need updating). One piece of CC I can think of that needs frequent updating which could potentially cause problems if packaged in the Sims3pack with the world are custom rabbitholes, as those have often needed updating with patches or new EPs.
However, I'm really loathed to take your 'side' at all, with the way you are insulting people. Really, each player is entitled to an opinion, and each player has valid experiences. Just because you choose to cram your world with low poly boxes instead of learning how to build interesting buildings, it doesn't mean anyone has to agree with you.
I will choose a path that's clear- I will choose free will RUSH My Worlds
Los Aniegos, at least when if first came out, had serious lag -- to the point of being unplayable.
We see a lot of posts here about creators having problems with lag. What do these worlds have in common? No custom content.
So, if I am to follow your reasoning: if you want a borked world, you will use one without custom content, because the problem worlds are all devoid of custom content.
Please don't confuse your own reasoning for my reasoning.
Yes, Bridgeport has significant lag problem. I will agree that that is a fact. However, most of this lag is caused by the fact that the world itself has some serious errors. There are documented holes in the unroutable terrain, which can have NPC sims spawning in a place where they can't get to the rest of the world, and then causing serious lag by trying repeatedly to find a route where none exists. Because of that and all of the other world and lot errors in the city, I feel that Bridgeport is the absolute worst world that EA has charged money for.
However, I have found Late Night content works wonderfully when placed in Sunset Valley, Riverview, or even Barnacle Bay. The only real issue I have in this case is actually fitting it all in. Similarly, the problems with Bridgeport can be avoided completely by finding a good user created replacement world. Moon Base Charlie and Harmony has worked well for me in the past for that purpose.
Now let me make this as clear as I can. I don't know of a single custom object, skin, or property downloadable from or uploadable to the exchange that can magically turn Bridgeport, a 300 lot monstrosity, or any world with routing errors into something that's actually playable, let alone lag-free. At best, custom content just looks pretty. At worst, it completely destroys the whole game.
Although I haven't published anything yet, that doesn't mean I haven't been trying to make something of my own. I am not finding my world magically bloating to hundreds of lots simply because I chose not to use custom content. In fact, I have near the opposite problem. I have all the commercial lots and rabbit-holes for a Late Night city and 25 residential lots zoned, and haven't even broken the 75 lot mark in my personal sprawl.
From what I can tell, those 200 lot monstrosities that barely run seem to have a lot of cloned residences. 60 commercial lots is reasonable, and pretty close to healthy for an "everything" world. However 3 or 4 houses cloned 40 times each is just plain overkill and bad design. The obvious trouble here is that the world builder is just putting too many unnecessary lots down. The obvious solution for the world builder to implement is to simply remove some lots. The presence or absence of custom content has nothing to do with either this problem or its solution. Cutting down on lots and adding custom content is not going to run any better than simply cutting down on lots period.
And there is your elephant in the room. Or maybe I should say your two elephants in the room.
Custom content causes problems. Intentional or not, bad CC on a lot or sim can break your entire game. It's not talked about much here on the Create a World forum because it isn't an issue with CAW itself, but the way the Sims 3 engine, the Exchange, and Simport handles user CC present on lots and sims. Unfortunately, it's rather impossible to create a usable world without at least one lot attached, so we aren't unaffected. But since is really an issue with the game itself, most of the discussion is on the general and technical forums.
Even without custom content, there are still quite a few amateur mistakes that can really break an otherwise good world, including things like broken or bad routing, badly placed lots, too many lots, too many spawners, and likely a few more things I don't really know about. The list seems to change occasionally. Even EA's world-building teams aren't immune to these errors. The vacation worlds in World Adventures and Late Night's Bridgeport are solid proof of that.
Really nice thread Damien. It helped me out a lot.
My 2 cents: You said that you don't have to worry about too little people in clubs with over 300 sims. I disagree. I made Sunset Valley into a city once (using the expanded edition in the exchange) with about 150 sims, and I used all of the bars and clubs of the city. There were literally 50 sims in this 15x15 lot. It was ridiculous. Frame rate was good though, and I had 70 sims in the multiple times. But even though I had 6 clubs throughout the city, Every sim in the town went to some stupid Irish Pub in the middle bar once during a bachelor party once. Moral of the story: Bars and clubs don't mean anything. You can spend a lot of time building elaborate lounges, but sims aren't going to go to them. Just skip them and build the Showtime Venues there instead because those are more useful.
Skip the Late Night Bars entirely, even if the map uses Late Night content? I don't like having to build all nine of them, especially if I'm going to also include the Live Show and Private Club Venues from Showtime, but I shouldn't include any of them? That seems like a bit much if the map is going to use Late Night. What about just one of each? One Dive Bar, One Lounge and One Dance Club, and only the ones that best fit the map's over all theme? Than players could build the other ones if they choose.
*sigh* I really dislike any kind of argueing about anything and I really don't wanna start with the CC, Mod debate.
Expecally when it has to do with getting EA items that EA forgot to put in the game.
Yes, I use mods and CC to do this.
However, there is a way to get the Walmounted mailbox, public picnic spot, ect, using your own computer and CAW without using any mods or CC!
I actually have a tutorial on this in here and I found out how to do this before I knew how to put in mods or CC on my computer.
Its in the create a world section: How do they do that.
My Post is on the top of page ten of that section.
The Post has each step written on how to do all of this.
Anyone can do this technique as long as they have their CAW updated to the patch level of their game.
Yes, I still do the techniques I found out how to do a long time ago. Expecally, when I have to take out all mods and CC with a new patch (and then I have nothing).
Edit: If I seem Rude by suggesting my 'workaround' that has No CC and No mods being used, I apologize to everyone here.
Comments
That paragraph is what got my dander up and you did insult the entire CAW creating simmers everywhere in my opinion.
TJ, I don't really care what you think of me, call me what you want, hate me, do what ever, say what ever - I don't really much care. If I can put up with living with Leukemia and all it's horrid medication side affects - well you don't hold a candle to it - I assure you - so scowl and growl away at me all you want. But when you insult all these fine people who unselfishly spend tons of hours creating and sharing worlds with us - I am going to get angry and retailiate. If I don't say it now - it might never get said, but by golly - YES, as long as there is breath in my body I am going to support people I know are being vilified even if you do not see your well known opinions as being vile or insulting.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
In dreams - I LIVE!
In REALITY, I simply exist.....
I just posted an important update on the first page. It looks like combined venues may not work with simport. That's very bad news.
I do know there was a lot less problem though actually just adding a bar to the Venue than it was if we had a bar and added a Venue stage to it.It had to be the ST Venue namewise, not the bar, as if the bar was an after thought. Does that make sense? But using a bar to create a Venue - well That created all kinds of instability and lost sims. So their premade Venues behaved better than LN Venues or user made Venues. I had good luck though for a few days for EA's two private Venues in Starlight Shores for some reason. But for get the park or coffee shop one, or any of their Karoke bars. They were major fails. I never tried the Biggest Venues.
Damien, just wanted to update some info as I know some simmers have been able to combine some building that are not really good to combine if you are not as knowlegeable as those simmers - but I have seen a few combinations that have never worked well for me - I do not know if the reason is I don't use mods, so any simless world would give me a problem these people don't get because if prepopulating a world with the mods you can assign sims to the different jobs, but in the case of people who do not use mods or prepopulate if there is a world that has no sims and the user populates it through normal game play, the Salon, Tatoo Parlous, and consignment shop will not get workers if they are not on their own lots. Even Rflong can tell you the junk yard will cause the game to crash if combined with a rabbit hole. The Firedepartment also does not work right if combined with any other Venue, Rabbithole, or career business. I am sure with mods this can be accomplished for most of these, but not in unpopulated worlds for sure. But as far as I know the only one that actually causes crashing or big game freezes is the junkyard. You'd have to play a fire Department combination to see what I mean by it won't play right. Your sim won't always get credits for putting out all the fires if the building even performs as a FD, some don't. Other workers won't come sometimes, and a host of other things. Anyway, I hope that helps clarify, as I surely do not want people to think anyone is not being honest here. As it is possible to combine the consignment store and one member even says they have a working salon and tatoo parlour in a combination, but the jobs were assigned by mods and the worlds were populated. I know the "Mall" lot the person made and uploading worked fine in his game, but did not work at all in my game. It worked like it was an art gallery - no workers, and no options but to view stuff and in the beauty salon you did get an option to perform a remake or tatoo on another sim, but there were no hired stylists or tatoo-ist. Both the consignment shop and the beauty salon only hired people if the lots were by their lonesome. Also it should be noted that another creator mentioned that if you don't have a library in your town, that the book registers also will not work properly - I forget exactly as I never had a world without a library - but I think you couldn't buy any skill books from a register with out a library or something like that.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
In dreams - I LIVE!
In REALITY, I simply exist.....
I have 87 residential lots in one world I play and wish there were more- so this seems to be your preference based on the way you play, and does not necessarily apply to others.
@Writin_Reg- thanks for the information, I was unaware of potential problems with some combo lots. I'll bear it in mind for my next world!
@Damienf519 - Thanks for this information, very useful!
RUSH
My Worlds
You're Welcome. Glad I'm not the only one here who has a computer powerful enough for maps with over two hundred sims!
The worst custom content I have ever encountered is a little something called "Girl Doll Dressed." Whoever created this thing managed to do something that caused it to attach itself to any sims3pack it can find and put its installer there. So once it pops up every lot, sim, tatoo, etc. etc. had 'Girl Doll Dressed' inside it, and would reinstall itself on everything each time anything it touched is accessed. In other words, it was a very nasty Sims 3 virus. At the time I discovered it, I had to completely uninstall Sims 3 from my computer at the same time that EA was noticing it and mass deleting everything on the exchange that had the object in it. This evil custom content didn't just "bork" my world, it destroyed everything. I had to start over completely from square one because of that one piece of bad custom content. And I never did find out which download gave it to me.
There have been cases where some accidentally bad custom content has turned Sims into malformed mutants. This seems to be a case where the content is causing sims of one age group to use outfits and skins from different age groups, causing stretched limbs which spike and go at odd angles. A more deliberate use of malicious content is to attach a few special skins to an object like a dresser. Just by downloading a lot with an innocent looking custom dresser in one corner you can find not just your world, but all of your worlds turning into nudist colonies, uncensored, and in graphic detail.
To be fair, actual bad content seems to be pretty rare. However, because the Sims 3 Launcher is just all to happy to install any custom content packaged with a lot or sim with no notification whatsoever that it's doing so, getting rid of any bad content you do encounter can be very hard. Sometimes, the best solution is to completely delete the game and reinstall it from disk and backup. I have unfortunately had to do so several times.
Now, whenever I find an interesting world or lot, I go through a complicated procedure.
1. Anything I want to keep I verify I have a backup for.
2. Then I completely uninstall all my 'Installed Content' so that folder in the launcher is empty.
3. Then I install the world or lot.
4. I check exactly what gets installed.
5. Then I uninstall it again to make sure I can.
6. Which involves starting a new Sunset Valley game so I can check all the in-game build and buy catalogs for anything that shouldn't be there.
7. Then I make a decision on whether I want the property or not.
8. Finally, what I want to keep gets reinstalled.
This may sound like paranoia to you, but I have been stung too many times by evil custom content to even consider anything less.
I expect there are a lot of people who feel an ugly lot that works the way it is supposed to is much easier to live with than a beautiful lot that bloats the catalog and world size with risky custom content. If you want to include beautiful custom content in your creations, that's fine. Just make sure to at least say exactly what you use in the world description. Hidden custom objects aren't going to win you any friends when people start to find out no matter how good looking the property is.
Things like what you mentioned, are why I don't use CC at all in my games.
Actually, your example proves my point. The doll problem arose several years ago, as I recall, before CAW was even released. The problem was fixed by EA in a patch, suggesting that the problem was more of a hole in EA's code than some sort of malicious act. The creator of the doll was one of TSR's featured artists, who has made some very nice items.
So that's it for your claim of bad custom content? That's all you got?
What you described does not sound like world borking custom content.
Now consider:
Bridgeport has significant lag problems.
Los Aniegos, at least when if first came out, had serious lag -- to the point of being unplayable.
We see a lot of posts here about creators having problems with lag. What do these worlds have in common? No custom content.
So, if I am to follow your reasoning: if you want a borked world, you will use one without custom content, because the problem worlds are all devoid of custom content.
All about bad CC including a list so far.
Wrong again TJ, the bad doll issue IS NOT fixed by an EA patch - they actually had to take the site down off and on for two weeks seeking out all the content they could find that had the bad doll in it and they posted a thread up including the number of the doll so users could gointo their dcbackup files and manually remove the doll after also uninstalling it from installed content. To this very day every now and then someone still finds a missed old file with the doll that has to go through the same process. THERE IS NO PATCH that can fix it or remove it and there is NO WAY you can blame EA so stop trying.
Just like the blue lot issue - http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/list/15/167693.page#2007598
- is created when a single bit of CC made while using a former version of S3Pe (mod) can still cause an entire world to go to pot as there is no fix for the blue lot issue. Once you have it - you have to delete the save and start over. You have to find the lot or what ever download you had made with that bad version of that mod and get rid of it. Unfortunately that version was used on a lot of the earlier TSR workshop so a lot of bad blue lot causing patterns and other content also ended up coming out of TSR. To this day it is still a problem if someone has one of those lots with content or patterns made using that mod. Don't say it did not happen as there is a post on this very site from the Creator herself stating the problem, stating there was no fix but to start over, and again she and her hubby apologized. Inje is a massively smart modder and I highly respect her and her hubby Peter and all they did for the Sims 2 community thanks to their constant updates and fixes with Simpe; and the Sims 3 community thanks to their work and abilities simmers can port sims into worlds, never mind make it possible for simmers to even have non-ea content in the game. You would be no where without the work the Jones have done, but even they will tell you there is plenty of bad CC out there and people making things that don't know what they are doing. Lots more of them than those who actually know what they are doing. That is a sign of someone who actually knows what they are talking about.
That being said, if world creators used a lot of CC in a world that came from some of those people who think they know what they are doing and don't, especially when it comes to content that forms attachments to EA content - you ended up getting this content into the very game itself because it attaches to EA content and removing the world did not remove the content. It ended up causing people to uninstall/reinstall all their games in order to remove the content, as even resetting the folders did not remove it. I have seen content from EA matched doors, windows, cabinets tops, to decor, to plants, to various pieces of clothing that form these attachments and if they come in your game via a world - even if you have the object DCbackup file number and remove that, you cannot remove it from the world, so it keeps getting put back into your game. There is even a couple outfits - some Shymoo stuff, some watermark stuff, an outfit that has a horse body, naked top and bottoms, Vampire shirt makes stick babies, some shoes, even a couple tatoos, some hairs including a popular childs hair from a well known long time creator of Sims stuff/hairs - too much stuff to name it all that can get into your game via a family download or via a world that has been populated that creates havoc long after the household, lot, or world has been removed from your game - and reappears after a total resset of the Sims 3 folder. Nothing but a total uninstall will remove it. I don't know about every body but I can make a lot better use of a whole day and night wasted on uninstalling - reinstalling everything - having to start from scratch because I have no clue from whince the content came so I can't even reinstall my back up. Of course in my own personal case that will never happen because I use custard to check everything - I see CC and will not install period. Simply because of a few bad apple my CC barrel is spoiled and I will never support the idea a world should have CC because I know what can happen when you do get the bad stuff. Plus what happens to a world full of mods and CC every time EA recodes the game? All that crap in the worlds needs to be replaced. Who wants a world they have to keep starting over. But unlike you TJ, I have approximately 32 non-EA world in my game that all have over 150 sims in each, no CC at all, and my saves are well over a year old and these worlds i can jump into any time and play for weeks at a time and I still have ZERO lag or freezing or hiccups. So no all worlds are not destined for failure without CC. I also have at least 120 or more lots in each of these large map big worlds.
But the most concerning factor using CC in worlds is the fact the user cannot remove the CC, it will come back every time you restart your computer - only the creator of the world can remove it by taking the world back into CAW - so as long as it exists this way I will continue to only test or play worlds made without CC, CC should be an option for the user - and it is not - it is the option of the creator if they use CC and the world will not work properly without - it becomes them deciding for me - so I have decided a long time ago, I will not even test those worlds period seeing I have no options about the CC content.
Oh and when the evil doll came out we did have CAW, I was playing in Fort Sims by EHaught as well as in Lee Mortis's worlds when a Beatrice Potter farmstead lot came on the build forum that I downloaded that had that miserable little doll in the farm house. I was also one of the first here to discover how evil the little doll really was. It was around the same time Lemon candy had a bunch of CC houseplants also go bad due to coding changes that was actually crashing pcs. I did not experience that, but I know plenty of people that do and who love lemon candy decor and plants - but she has been badly bitten by coding changes before as has all the many people who download her very beautiful decor. Unfortunately no matter how great it looks it is CC and there fore can easily "go bad".
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
In dreams - I LIVE!
In REALITY, I simply exist.....
With TS2, I had my hard drive packed full of CC. I couldnt get enough. I was even a member of several PAY sites, just to download custom clothes, furniture, skins, etc.
With TS3, I will not put any CC of any kind. Not recolors, patterns, terrains, anything. If CAW doesnt have it, right-out-of-the-box, I dont use it.
For me, it was a matter of having a smooth running game or not. I like it running very smooth.
I do use mods though. Which could be considered CC. :roll:
People do not realize what amount of ram the game with all eps and sps and all the store stuff needs - add to that every non-ea world they have added, add to that the operationg system, the background tasks, and then add the non EA content, the houses they have downloaded and other lots - all that stuff - then start multiplying all that by each house, lot, etc in the world - each sim using and wearing all that CC - it's not a memory leak - it's buy a whole lot more memory and a super computer and just maybe you might get it all to chug along - but if you were smart you'd remove any hair over 20 mb to start with and anything else that might be in multiple use and not utilized by the game.
Mods on the other hand do tons of things and use zilch for ram. On top of it they sit in a mod folder and never antagonize the launcher. If anything some mods help the game - I fully admit that even though I am not known to use them - I try and solve issues the hard way to learn work a rounds as I don't like the hassles of removing and adding things all the time - but I highly respect modders and the way they stay on top of their content to make sure it works well with the game - unlike what I call CC creators who feel they are "above the law" regarding non-EA installed content.
Even EA does not escape updating all their content - hince why the WE runs like crap for placing lots - update it EA to keep it from breaking routing after 4 lots. So why do CC creators not see they need to do this - modders DO.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
In dreams - I LIVE!
In REALITY, I simply exist.....
Under my Documents -
9.45 gb
It has 5,633 files in 34 folders
Under Program files -
6.50 gb
It has 1,923 files in 155 folders
So my game is 16mb with no CC and before I add the other 32 worlds I generally have in my game with their 48 save folders. Which if I recall is around another 9 gb -
SO WITH NO cc AT ALL AND NO MODS my regular everyday game just sitting here on my pc needs 25gb just to do nothing but be on my pc. I do have 99.8 percent of the store and all the store worlds and that stuff is counted in the first total as all of that is on my pc at present.
I am presently doing routine maintenance and getting prepared for the upcoming SN - as that is the only reason all my stuff is not back in my folders yet -
But that gives you a clue of the size ALL eps, sps, and store stuff requires with out extra worlds, saves, and absolutely no mods or CC need just for a pure Vanilla game.
I do have a super computer and I do have 8 gigs of Crucial high speed gaming ram. My Asus motherboard will take up to 32 gigs of this gaming ram and my hubby is a certified pc tech and works for a publishing company as the head of their inhouse techs for the last 19 years. He builds my machines every 18 month or so. Number of sims in a world has never been an issue for me either.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
In dreams - I LIVE!
In REALITY, I simply exist.....
Written Reg, I really don't see how you are qualified to comment here. You don't create anything. You have, from what I can tell, never made any cc items for the Sims 3 and appear to be totally clueless as to how items are made. Also, you don't make worlds, so you really have no idea of what goes into building a world. You play plain vanilla games and shy away from anything innovative or new. I don't know why anyone would pay any attention to you because you simply have no first hand experience with cc. Everything you post is gossip.
First, since the Sims 3 is a 32 bit application, it can only access 4gb of memory. Period. That's a hard limit. Actually, for the Sims, it's a little less, at about 3.7 gigs, the game becomes unstable. (This is from Twallan.) The remainder of your memory is worthless. I just thought I should clarify that for you.
As far as world building goes, which is what this forum is about, the types of cc we are talking about is rather limited.
Usually, when one talks about bad cc, one is talking about CAS items. This is where most of the problem cc seems to appear, and most of these bad items are several years old. If a world is unpopulated, which the vast majority of worlds are, we are not talking about CAS items, because there are are no sims in an unpopulated world. Hence there is no CAS items in an unpopulated world. So anything having to do with clothes, hair, etc, are red herrings for the purposes of this discussion.
We could be talking about bad furniture items since they appear on lots. And I agree that lots are a type of cc which can cause many problems. However, I am unaware of any bad furniture cc out there. They don't seem to appear on Crinct's blog. You didn't list any. So, it is probably fair to say that bad furniture cc is few and far between, if it exists at all.
As far as mods, again these typically are not part of an uploaded world. There are things that players add to their own worlds. But for the most part, mods fix problems in the game. Problems, which, for example, cause lag. For examples of the things fixed my mods see http://nraas.wikispaces.com/General+Issues+FAQ#Sim%20Deletion I think that just about everyone would agree that fixing these bugs actually helps the game considerably.
Now as for metadata items (i.e. items one finds in create a world), I agree that these largely are decorative. I also have a little bit of experience in making these things.
The reason we don't see more animated items is because most creators don't understand animations yet. At least, this one doesn't. For one, I would love to have my ferris wheel go round and round, my roller coaster have cars that travel along the rails, my trains go up and down the tracks, my monorail follow its route around town,my ships being loaded in port, my ferries traveling across the game world, and my airplanes take off from a runway and fly across the world. If I knew how to do this, it would be pretty awesome.
But even as it is, my world is looking pretty awesome. And worlds which use these items, like Manustyle's New York, and some of the other worlds being shown on Mod the Sims look pretty good, too.
But these items have another advantage: they are easier on your computer. Ask yourself this: what do you think poses a greater burden on your computer (1) hundreds and hundreds of lots, each containing their own in game buildings with hundreds of thousands of vertices and polygons, or (2) a metadata building consisting of four vertices, 10 polygons, and one 512 x 512 texture?
And what is going to cause you to have error 12 messages sooner? Hundreds of lots or hundreds of metadata items?
I have been packing my world with metadata items about just as quickly as I make them. They range from relatively tiny items, to absolutely gigantic items (like distant terrain, entire neighborhoods, and my entire monorail network as one object). I have hundreds of this type of cc, and am not having problems with these items. So when I see you complaining about these things, I think you are nuts.
For goodness' sake, her name is Writin_Reg. How difficult is it to copy paste?
You know tjstreak, I'm largely with you on this argument as I agree that CC is not harmful when used correctly- although, As I've mentioned before, I would advise against packaging the CC in the Sims3Pack with the world (as this can cause the world to break should the CC need updating). One piece of CC I can think of that needs frequent updating which could potentially cause problems if packaged in the Sims3pack with the world are custom rabbitholes, as those have often needed updating with patches or new EPs.
However, I'm really loathed to take your 'side' at all, with the way you are insulting people. Really, each player is entitled to an opinion, and each player has valid experiences. Just because you choose to cram your world with low poly boxes instead of learning how to build interesting buildings, it doesn't mean anyone has to agree with you.
RUSH
My Worlds
Please don't confuse your own reasoning for my reasoning.
Yes, Bridgeport has significant lag problem. I will agree that that is a fact. However, most of this lag is caused by the fact that the world itself has some serious errors. There are documented holes in the unroutable terrain, which can have NPC sims spawning in a place where they can't get to the rest of the world, and then causing serious lag by trying repeatedly to find a route where none exists. Because of that and all of the other world and lot errors in the city, I feel that Bridgeport is the absolute worst world that EA has charged money for.
However, I have found Late Night content works wonderfully when placed in Sunset Valley, Riverview, or even Barnacle Bay. The only real issue I have in this case is actually fitting it all in. Similarly, the problems with Bridgeport can be avoided completely by finding a good user created replacement world. Moon Base Charlie and Harmony has worked well for me in the past for that purpose.
Now let me make this as clear as I can. I don't know of a single custom object, skin, or property downloadable from or uploadable to the exchange that can magically turn Bridgeport, a 300 lot monstrosity, or any world with routing errors into something that's actually playable, let alone lag-free. At best, custom content just looks pretty. At worst, it completely destroys the whole game.
Although I haven't published anything yet, that doesn't mean I haven't been trying to make something of my own. I am not finding my world magically bloating to hundreds of lots simply because I chose not to use custom content. In fact, I have near the opposite problem. I have all the commercial lots and rabbit-holes for a Late Night city and 25 residential lots zoned, and haven't even broken the 75 lot mark in my personal sprawl.
From what I can tell, those 200 lot monstrosities that barely run seem to have a lot of cloned residences. 60 commercial lots is reasonable, and pretty close to healthy for an "everything" world. However 3 or 4 houses cloned 40 times each is just plain overkill and bad design. The obvious trouble here is that the world builder is just putting too many unnecessary lots down. The obvious solution for the world builder to implement is to simply remove some lots. The presence or absence of custom content has nothing to do with either this problem or its solution. Cutting down on lots and adding custom content is not going to run any better than simply cutting down on lots period.
And there is your elephant in the room. Or maybe I should say your two elephants in the room.
Custom content causes problems. Intentional or not, bad CC on a lot or sim can break your entire game. It's not talked about much here on the Create a World forum because it isn't an issue with CAW itself, but the way the Sims 3 engine, the Exchange, and Simport handles user CC present on lots and sims. Unfortunately, it's rather impossible to create a usable world without at least one lot attached, so we aren't unaffected. But since is really an issue with the game itself, most of the discussion is on the general and technical forums.
Even without custom content, there are still quite a few amateur mistakes that can really break an otherwise good world, including things like broken or bad routing, badly placed lots, too many lots, too many spawners, and likely a few more things I don't really know about. The list seems to change occasionally. Even EA's world-building teams aren't immune to these errors. The vacation worlds in World Adventures and Late Night's Bridgeport are solid proof of that.
There is no line going between those two dots.
My 2 cents: You said that you don't have to worry about too little people in clubs with over 300 sims. I disagree. I made Sunset Valley into a city once (using the expanded edition in the exchange) with about 150 sims, and I used all of the bars and clubs of the city. There were literally 50 sims in this 15x15 lot. It was ridiculous. Frame rate was good though, and I had 70 sims in the multiple times. But even though I had 6 clubs throughout the city, Every sim in the town went to some stupid Irish Pub in the middle bar once during a bachelor party once. Moral of the story: Bars and clubs don't mean anything. You can spend a lot of time building elaborate lounges, but sims aren't going to go to them. Just skip them and build the Showtime Venues there instead because those are more useful.
Skip the Late Night Bars entirely, even if the map uses Late Night content? I don't like having to build all nine of them, especially if I'm going to also include the Live Show and Private Club Venues from Showtime, but I shouldn't include any of them? That seems like a bit much if the map is going to use Late Night. What about just one of each? One Dive Bar, One Lounge and One Dance Club, and only the ones that best fit the map's over all theme? Than players could build the other ones if they choose.
Expecally when it has to do with getting EA items that EA forgot to put in the game.
Yes, I use mods and CC to do this.
However, there is a way to get the Walmounted mailbox, public picnic spot, ect, using your own computer and CAW without using any mods or CC!
I actually have a tutorial on this in here and I found out how to do this before I knew how to put in mods or CC on my computer.
Its in the create a world section: How do they do that.
My Post is on the top of page ten of that section.
The Post has each step written on how to do all of this.
Anyone can do this technique as long as they have their CAW updated to the patch level of their game.
Yes, I still do the techniques I found out how to do a long time ago. Expecally, when I have to take out all mods and CC with a new patch (and then I have nothing).
Edit: If I seem Rude by suggesting my 'workaround' that has No CC and No mods being used, I apologize to everyone here.