October 11 - It's Friday, and that means Friday Highlight is here! Check it out!
October 10 - A new The Sims 4 update is ready for you on Xbox One and PlayStation 4! Details here
October 3 - Patch day for The Sims 4 on PC/Mac! Find the details here.
Playing on macOS Lion (10.7)? Please, read this before updating your game.

Ways of fighting "Sprawl" or "lot creep" already available. Updated 7/16/12 bad news! pg1

«1
Damienf519Damienf519 Posts: 6,527 Member
People who like creating multi expansion pack neighborhoods, especially the ones that use all available expansion packs, tend to run into this problem. I'm talking about having to build more and more lots, with less ans less space, thus making it harder and harder to fit everything on one map, including all the homes necessary for the sims.

Here are some suggestions for dealing with the problem.

1. Pretty much all worlds will have rabbit holes. All the careers, not counting the professions are unavailable without them. However a significant portion of map's land most likely will be used by them. Instead of single type rabbit holes like Sunset Valley's city hall, use hybrid rabbit holes like Bridgeport's city hall which is the police station, military base and city hall, all in one. Also, whenever possible place more than one rabbit hole on the same lot. You can also place rabbit holes on the same lots as some of your venues. For example someone designed a world with a warehouse rabbit hole on top of a dive bar. The dive bar worked perfectly. The only problem was that the warehouse map tag replaced the dive bar map tag, and you couldn't access the dive bar by clicking on the map tag. However, try to avoid, using more than one of the same rabbit hole on the same map. This takes up extra room, is only good for aesthetics for the most part, and can cause some serious problems if the sims working there have co workers and the map's size gets too large.

2. Make your lots as small as possible where you can still fit every necessary thing on them. If you want to design a huge city, try to avoid having too many lots bigger than 30 by 30. Download the apartment mailbox here.

http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/list/369917.page

Don't forget to thank Aynat134, and Bluefunk for making them available without us having to use a mod. That way you be able to make apartments on lots smaller than 30 by 36, the smallest apartment lot in Bridgeport.

3. You don't have to include everything. Maybe you want to make a small town. Than putting all nine of Late Night's bars/clubs in your town doesn't make that much sense. A small town wouldn't have 3 dive bars, 3 dance clubs, and 3 lounges. In fact if it is supposed to be a really small town, most likely it would only have a single dive bar at most and none of the others. Sure you won't be able to accomplish all the skill challenges associated with Mixology, and the band career won't work right, but maybe you don't care? Maybe its not part of your world's story. Plus you could still put in extra empty lots for extra ones and give them a "no visitors allowed" tag. Sure it won't reduce the amount of space you use, if you have to add the extra empty lots, however, it will mean that the sims that are already living in your town will still be more likely to visit the other other venues, and you might not have to place as many apartments or houses, so you could save space that way. If you choose to go this route and say create a haunted town, (now that supernatural is coming out) and the only late night venue you include is a vampire lounge, here's something to consider. Don't use any Late Night content on the other lots, and give us the vampire lounge as a separate download instead of including it with the map. The map will still be listed as requiring Late Night with just that one lot, and people who have Late Night might be looking for maps with all the bars/clubs, and might not be willing to go through the trouble of adding their own, especially if you didn't give them room to do so. Keep in mind that not everyone has Late Night, or any other expansion pack for that matter.

4. Since patch 1.36 has been released we can now make some venues double as Showtime performance venues.

Check out this list and see how you might be able to combine different venues.

New Late Night and Showtime lot options in patch 1.36
http://simsvip.com/?p=12993

You can use this as a way to reduce the total number of community lots necessary for your world. Also with fewer community lots where visitors are allowed, sims will be more likely to visit the remaining ones. Note that there's a small problem, make that big problem with trying to make a hybrid, Dance Club/Live Show venue, involving a scheduling conflict. Hopefully it will be resolved soon.

7/16/12 Important update DOLLERDRMS1 has told me that she tried to get performer to perform at a combined pool/Coffee shop venue. It didn't work. Not sure how it works with Simport now. I shouldn't have been so quick to assume that simport would work with combined venues. Hopefully EA will fix this soon.

5. But what if you want to include everything and think your machine is powerful enough for a megalopolis? Say you have an incredibly powerful machine, that can handle a world with well over three hundred sims and have enough space on your map for every single venue in the game so far, and your determined to make such a world? Go for it. With more than three hundred sims on your map, you shouldn't have to worry about getting enough sims to visit venues. However, many if not most of the people playing the sims 3 won't have a machine powerful enough to run your world right now. It will probably crash the slowest machines capable of running the sims 3 before its even finished loading, and if it does load on those machines, the frame rate will suck. Perhaps if your populating your world via the saved game file method, you should create two saved games, one with more than 300 sims and one with less than 150 for lower end machines. However, with all those extra homes you will have to include, slower machines may not even be able to run your world if no sims are living there, especially since you'll have to include extra homes for people who want to add their own sims or sims someone else created. Do you really want to go through all that trouble creating a world that most simmers may not even be able to play. Maybe you could comprise and create a world that will have about 200 hundred sims living there. You should still have a separate saved game file for slower machines with less than 120 sims in it. the world won't be as bustling, but more people will be able to play with it, without it crashing.

I hope what I wrote here was helpful. If anyone else has any other suggestions feel free to add them.

7/14/12

6. Important update: Writin_Reg brought this to my attention. I had known about it before but I had forgotten to mention it. You should keep in mind that the Salon and Fire can't really be combined with other venues. I remember hearing also that there's an issue with these career venues having rabbit holes on the same lot, so avoid doing that. They also have to be given a specific lot designation to function properly. I'm not sure about the consignment store, however, but she says there are problems with trying to put consignment registers on other lots as well. 7/15/12: Today Conorsim just told me that he was able to combine these venues with Rabbit holes without a problem, but other simmers have still had issues with doing so.

7. One more thing I thought of, but forgot to mention. I like to create World Adventures Venues for my worlds. However, keep in mind that they are luxuries, since you will always be able to visit one of them when you travel to a particular destination. They're nice to have, however, they are not essential, since anyone with world Adventures can visit one, regardless of what map they're using as the home town. In that respect the Academy, Chinese Garden, Nectory, and Markets and Small markets are not like the venues included in other expansion packs. Also keep in mind that the relics register only sells rocks outside of the vacation destinations and the general store register won't sell anything on the home map. You can include World Adventures venues if you want, especially if you include tombs in your world, but if you don't mind traveling to visit say a nectory or learn kungfu, you don't need to include them.

Comments

  • Writin_RegWritin_Reg Posts: 28,568 Member
    edited July 2012
    Very nice and informative Damien. Good job, and should be much help with especially new world builders.

    My only additive was in relation to a few of the careers like Consignment Store, Salon and tatoo parlour in particular - that these two businesses do not work out added to others as they will not be able to have any workers if combined with any other venues. Also the junk yard has a tendency to cause the game to crash if it is added to shared lots. Like some people like to add a junk yard to the area where the Criminal warehouse are - and just adding piles of the searchable junk works okay, but not adding the whole junk yard or classifying it a junkyard. So I avoid the issue by just keeping a small version of a junkyard on it's own lot also.

    As far as I know these are the only three buildings that really seem to conflict with others and need their own lots to function properly now that EA has solved the Star Venues and bar issues. Hope that helps.

    "Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.

    In dreams - I LIVE!
    In REALITY, I simply exist.....

  • Lennon777Lennon777 Posts: 786 New Member
    edited July 2012
    Very good and useful list-bookmarked!
  • Rflong7Rflong7 Posts: 35,663 Member
    edited July 2012
    With the new expansions such as Pets and Showtime, it's easy to make a small world with all the lot types. Even more then one or two bars. :)
    *And it has a lot to do with how the builder wants their world to look- what goes with it and some just doesn't work~ why limit to the ones which are more then one...

    And I'm not sure if having a lot of small lots for a city would be the best. EA spaces their lots, even in Bridgeport. None are really small either.

    I think knowing what the game can handle, about your computer, and building to what works on your computer is the best bet.
  • Damienf519Damienf519 Posts: 6,527 Member
    edited July 2012
    Writin_Reg wrote:
    Very nice and informative Damien. Good job, and should be much help with especially new world builders.

    My only additive was in relation to a few of the careers like Consignment Store, Salon and tatoo parlour in particular - that these two businesses do not work out added to others as they will not be able to have any workers if combined with any other venues. Also the junk yard has a tendency to cause the game to crash if it is added to shared lots. Like some people like to add a junk yard to the area where the Criminal warehouse are - and just adding piles of the searchable junk works okay, but not adding the whole junk yard or classifying it a junkyard. So I avoid the issue by just keeping a small version of a junkyard on it's own lot also.

    As far as I know these are the only three buildings that really seem to conflict with others and need their own lots to function properly now that EA has solved the Star Venues and bar issues. Hope that helps.

    Writin_Reg,

    Excellent point. I should add this information to the list since I forgot to mention it.
  • Damienf519Damienf519 Posts: 6,527 Member
    edited July 2012
    Lennon777 wrote:
    Very good and useful list-bookmarked!

    Lennon777,

    Thanks for the compliment. I really hope it does help you.
  • Damienf519Damienf519 Posts: 6,527 Member
    edited July 2012
    Rflong7 wrote:
    With the new expansions such as Pets and Showtime, it's easy to make a small world with all the lot types. Even more then one or two bars. :)
    *And it has a lot to do with how the builder wants their world to look- what goes with it and some just doesn't work~ why limit to the ones which are more then one...

    And I'm not sure if having a lot of small lots for a city would be the best. EA spaces their lots, even in Bridgeport. None are really small either.

    I think knowing what the game can handle, about your computer, and building to what works on your computer is the best bet.

    Rflong7,

    It is if you're going to include every single venue in the game so far, especially if you're going to put a lot of space in between them.
  • BobbleBeanBobbleBean Posts: 671 Member
    edited July 2012
    I have seen people mention this a lot lately - To be honest I am yet to find it an issue, I agree with RFLong that it is not hard to fit everything in.

    However these tips are fantastic for someone trying to fit in everything needed for full gameplay on a medium or small map. Bookmarked!

    :mrgreen:
  • vcosleyvcosley Posts: 855 Member
    edited July 2012
    Thank you for this info, and the site to download the mailbox. It went missing after I bought and downloaded Lucky Palms. My CW stopped working so I had to delete it. Will try to download it again.
  • auntielyndsauntielynds Posts: 3,071 Member
    edited July 2012
    Great information Damien :D

    I'm linking in the FAQ under Lots.
  • Damienf519Damienf519 Posts: 6,527 Member
    edited July 2012
    Great information Damien :D

    I'm linking in the FAQ under Lots.

    Auntielynds,

    Thanks. I'm glad I was able to create a topic worthy of inclusion in your list. I hope this helps a lot of people out.
  • ConorsimConorsim Posts: 5,898 Member
    edited July 2012
    Hello Damien :D

    I am always very confused about the topic on combining venues.

    I know that it isn't really possible to combine a salon and a firestation etc etc, but situations where a rabbithole is placed on a firestation lot/salon lot/consignment shop etc I have found no difficulty with. In my world, I have 3 rabbit holes and a consignment shop register on a lot marked as a pub. I have found practically no issues with it. The rabbit holes work fine, except for that they are not accessible from the times that the pub is open (Rabbitholes are underground, but if they were were just normal and abaove ground there would be no issues with that).

    I'm just curious as to what issues occur in those situations. I haven't encountered any that cause gameplay issues, at all. Maybe I'm wrong. I'm just genuinely curious as to what exactly are the errors/whatever so maybe I can steer clear of combining venues and rabbitholes etc. Thanks!

    Oh - great thread btw.
  • Damienf519Damienf519 Posts: 6,527 Member
    edited July 2012
    Conorsim,

    Thanks!

    Maybe you haven't encountered any problems combining Ambitions lots with rabbit holes, but others have. I've never tried it before, but I remember hearing from other people who have who said they couldn't get them to work right after doing so.
  • ConorsimConorsim Posts: 5,898 Member
    edited July 2012
    That's very strange :? I don't understand how or why they would work for me, but not for others. :shock: The only reason I do it is due to lack of space. The only thing that annoys me with it is that the Rabbithole map tags take over the lot map tag! Oh well. Not that big of a deal :)
  • Damienf519Damienf519 Posts: 6,527 Member
    edited July 2012
    vcosley wrote:
    Thank you for this info, and the site to download the mailbox. It went missing after I bought and downloaded Lucky Palms. My CW stopped working so I had to delete it. Will try to download it again.

    vcosley,

    You're welcome!
  • tjstreaktjstreak Posts: 808 Member
    edited July 2012
    O.K. I'm going to be the trouble maker in the bunch. But there is nothing unusual I that.

    I think there is some serious misinformation in this post.

    First a large world can accomodate a large number lots.. We are talking about hundreds of lots, enough to bork a world even on the fastest of machines. I think we have all seen worlds with 400, 700, or more lots which have massive problems.

    Similarly, worlds can only handle a limited number of sims. As you approach 200,you are begging for problems. You can find yourself trapped on a lot with 20 or more sims, unable to leave because the ins are blocking the exits. The the grim reaper shows up and starts a mass reap, again leaving your sim stuck on the lot. Or you children show up at school with 20 other children. Each enters the school in turn, and by the time your kids can enter the school, class is over.

    The real problem with lots is not community lots, but with residential lots. Community lots add interest to the game. They provide places for you sims to go and give them things to do. And there really are not that many types of community lots.

    Residential lots on the other hand don't really add that much to the game, unless one is playing an architect. But even at that, a world really does not need more than 50 residential lots.

    Add to this the fact that most world builders are horrible house builders. They tend to have awful floor plans, and are poorly decorated. (because they refuse to use custom content) Given the opportunity, most players probably want to replace the world builder's houses with something nice.

    Along those lines, tiny lots are not particularly conducive to nice homes. Most of the nice homes one finds are on larger lots. Quite often they are on 40 x 30 lots. But soften on 40 x 40, 50x50, and even 60x 60 lots. Quite often the biggest complaint about a world is "I have a really nice mansion on a 64 x 64 lot, which does not fit anywhere.". The world creator gives a reply along the lines, "Well there is a 64 x 64 lot for your mansion between the junkyard and the criminal warehouse ". -- epic fail!

    As far as empty lots, the fewer the better. None is best of all. I have seen too many sims get stuck, for reasons unknown, on empty lots. A better solution is to leave a lot of flat and empty spaces, so the player can add his own lots.

    I stopped using player made worlds because to often their creators have no respect for the players and try to micro-manage how other people play their worlds.
  • Writin_RegWritin_Reg Posts: 28,568 Member
    edited July 2012
    TJ you are WRONG!

    ALL BAD ADVICE and even WORSE information.

    Both adding ones own empty lots and CC borks worlds, and surprisingly fast! Regardless of how you want to differ on that info, it is truth. Naturally you like to fill these helpful threads will boastful lies because you are a content maker. You boast about all the content you make and want it downloaded so naturally just as any shyster car salesman will do will boast the benefits of YOUR cars because lets face it you want the numbers and downloads. But honestly I have yet to see any world successfully working a year or two down the line with user added lots alone, never mind third party custom made content - as most of that content does not survive all the recoding and updates because CC creators, unlike modders, feel no need to update their content to every game update. But you keep preaching to the choir and I am sure you will convince a few gullible enough to fall for your constant preachings of how great CC is. But me, I will stick to my thoroughly enjoyable and fully beautiful worlds that constantly play nicely. I seriously wonder how much you actually PLAY the game, as you are constantly making something. You are like the inventors that never really much utilize all you have invented, and often make things of pleasant enough appearances, but that do nothing - they are all decoration and have no use in the game at all. It's all wall coverings. Are any of your highrises usuable or just filler? How about all those ships and air planes and everything else. They are all ground cover. How much FUN do your sims have with all that stuff anyway? Do you play 4 or more hours a night - every night since the game came out like I do?

    BUt I pray no one takes your advice as you are a CC pied piper.

    And talk about being full of onesself to say all creators are lousy builders? Who died and made you the God of all builders and world creators? What worlds have you played. I play tons of worlds and the world creators homes are just beautiful . You telling me that JohnnyWR, Rflong, Elle, Ehaught, Simsrealty, Bobbybean, Damien, Sneakfeline, STW, Auntylynds,Pyronium, Coasterboi, Connorsim, DM, Magic Dancer, Tea and Blues, Simsample - shall I go on as that are many - many more wonderful creators who all build the most fascinating builds, world, lots - you name it with out a single bit of CC and there is nothing boring, ugly, or anything else about their lots - some of these same world builders are constantly "featured builders of lots as well as their world. YOU KNOW NOT OF WHAT YOU SPEAK. You have no business criticizing all these fabulous people who go out of their way to build beautiful - TROUBLEfree worlds.

    But as usual your goal is not to info but to create havoc, and I pray to GOD no one listens as you are dead wrong!!!

    If your idea was to create chaos in a rather useful thread - in my book you have because you have successfully got on my last nerve - never mind misleading people and insulting both the creator of this thread and all those wonderful - wonderful builders. I hope this - if nothing else - exposes you for the troublemaking, cheesy person you are, as I can not sit here silently and see you lead people off the high end of a cliff. Go pied pipe some other forum if you can't be useful.

    "Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.

    In dreams - I LIVE!
    In REALITY, I simply exist.....

  • Writin_RegWritin_Reg Posts: 28,568 Member
    edited July 2012
    Damien, I want to apologize by even replying to TJ in your lovely thread, but I could not just sit here and leave all that misguided info and most of all the insults to all you wonderful creators without a confrontation. So I do apologize to you and any reader offended - knowing TJ he will amend what he has written so I will look silly I'm sure. But I just can't sit here and read plum like that and say nothing.
    Post edited by Unknown User on

    "Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.

    In dreams - I LIVE!
    In REALITY, I simply exist.....

  • Writin_RegWritin_Reg Posts: 28,568 Member
    edited July 2012
    tjstreak wrote:
    O.K. I'm going to be the trouble maker in the bunch. But there is nothing unusual I that.

    I think there is some serious misinformation in this post.

    First a large world can accomodate a large number lots.. We are talking about hundreds of lots, enough to bork a world even on the fastest of machines. I think we have all seen worlds with 400, 700, or more lots which have massive problems.

    Similarly, worlds can only handle a limited number of sims. As you approach 200,you are begging for problems. You can find yourself trapped on a lot with 20 or more sims, unable to leave because the ins are blocking the exits. The the grim reaper shows up and starts a mass reap, again leaving your sim stuck on the lot. Or you children show up at school with 20 other children. Each enters the school in turn, and by the time your kids can enter the school, class is over.

    The real problem with lots is not community lots, but with residential lots. Community lots add interest to the game. They provide places for you sims to go and give them things to do. And there really are not that many types of community lots.

    Residential lots on the other hand don't really add that much to the game, unless one is playing an architect. But even at that, a world really does not need more than 50 residential lots.

    Add to this the fact that most world builders are horrible house builders. They tend to have awful floor plans, and are poorly decorated. (because they refuse to use custom content) Given the opportunity, most players probably want to replace the world builder's houses with something nice.

    Along those lines, tiny lots are not particularly conducive to nice homes. Most of the nice homes one finds are on larger lots. Quite often they are on 40 x 30 lots. But soften on 40 x 40, 50x50, and even 60x 60 lots. Quite often the biggest complaint about a world is "I have a really nice mansion on a 64 x 64 lot, which does not fit anywhere.". The world creator gives a reply along the lines, "Well there is a 64 x 64 lot for your mansion between the junkyard and the criminal warehouse ". -- epic fail!

    As far as empty lots, the fewer the better. None is best of all. I have seen too many sims get stuck, for reasons unknown, on empty lots. A better solution is to leave a lot of flat and empty spaces, so the player can add his own lots.

    I stopped using player made worlds because to often their creators have no respect for the players and try to micro-manage how other people play their worlds.

    Just in case - TJ's post I responded to.

    "Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.

    In dreams - I LIVE!
    In REALITY, I simply exist.....

  • DigstarDigstar Posts: 308 Member
    edited July 2012
    I stopped using player made worlds because to often their creators have no respect for the players and try to micro-manage how other people play their worlds.
    Sims 3 is a hobby/game, not an occupation. Most of the player worlds will have inherent problems from routing, dodgy lots, CC etc etc so it has nothing to do with a lack of respect but a means of showcasing/sharing a players hobby regardless of flaws :wink:
  • KelleygirlKelleygirl Posts: 583 Member
    edited July 2012
    tjstreak, I disagree with you when you say that residential lots don't add that much to the game. Though visiting and hanging out at community lots is fun, Simmies spends a lot of time at their homes, in the beginning at least, working on skills, family, etc.

    What's more, I find that residential lots on a 60 x 60 are too large, because almost everything a Simmie needs can be housed on a smaller lot. Sure, it's nice to have wealthy families with large houses, but Sims spend most of their time getting from point A to point B on a lot like that.

    As far as world builders being horrible house builders, you are mistaken. Though you may take pride in your worlds that are chock-full of buildings that are for looks only, some of us truly enjoy worlds we can download that not only have buildings that are pleasing to the eye, but playable, as well. Some of the best-looking, playable houses have come along with worlds created by JohnnyWR, Rflong, Auntylynds,and ConnorSim, just to name a few. These aren't folks who are just creating terrain and placing buildings and pushing them out in a hurry; these are creators who obviously take painstaking effort to build houses that blend with the worlds they have imagined.

    And I have NEVER downloaded a world from the reputable creators I mentioned that was micro-managed.

    You may discredit my opinion because I haven't posted much in these forums. The truth is, I am a lurker. I download worlds that I know are created by reputable, knowledgeable builders/creators who take pride in their work and who will only make a world available when it meets their standards, which oftentimes means months of painstaking work, sculpting, terrain-painting, etc. And I am not the only lurker here; there are many people that read this forum, look at the CAW FAQ's and then haunt the World Index in hopes of being inspired and informed

    I find your advice less than helpful and normally very inflammatory, as it usually goes against all I've read here that is offered by people that are more helpful and less inflammatory than you.

    Just my two cents, for what it's worth.





    [img][/img]10d5u0i.jpg
  • tjstreaktjstreak Posts: 808 Member
    edited July 2012
    As usual, Written Reg is wrong, about Everything! As usual she is unable to make her points without engaging in personal attacks. As usual, she is unable to engage in a polite discourse.

    If someone wants to try to play the game with 200 plus sims, be my guest. I know it's not a good idea. I've tried it, with disastrous results. Mods like Twalllan, like his story progression are essential to controlling population. Allowing your population to grow to large makes the game unplayable.

    Restricting your world to small lots has advantages in that it may reduce lag. How ever it causes major problems for players. If you go to sites like the exchange, TSR, Mod the Sims, etc., you will quickly discover that most houses are on larger lots. When I was placing homes in Rain City, I was hard pressed to find decent looking 25 x 25 or even 20 x 20 lots for my working class neighborhood. There was no shortage of really good looking larger lots (30 x 40 and larger)'.

    Now I do not fancy myself as a great house builder. However, I believe that the few houses I have made are vastly us.perior to the maJority of lots I have seen from world builders.. However they pa
    Le in comparison to the work of really good lot builders.

    With respect to custom content, keep in mind for the most part we are talking about player made lots. Yes, player made lots are custom content. (Yes, I know Written Reg disagrees, but she has never learned how to read.). More importantly, those really nice homes I have referred to almost always use custom comment. EA has offered us a limited number of windows, doors and furniture items. Quite often EA's items don't maintain a consistent style. Trying to build an entire world within the limits of what EA has provided is a major challenge.

    As for the number of residences, 50 is all you need for a functioning world -- max. Assuming 3 sims per house, that's 150 sims. However it is not unusual for the story progression to pack 8 sims in a house. At 8 sims per house, 50 houses is 400 sims, and major major problems.

    Yes, I realize the homes do provide some activity, but how many does one really need? More than 10? More than 50?

    A world builder needs to anticipate that a player might NOT want to play with one of the world builder's craptastic houses. A player might prefer to download a really nice lot, from say, Mod the Sims. Or he might want to build his own. A world builder should not try to foist his substandard lots on these players.
  • BobbleBeanBobbleBean Posts: 671 Member
    edited July 2012
    I'm not really sure why the subject needs to be so controversial. For me the whole point of world building is to create something that I want - and if others like it too then that's even better.

    Some houses I build because I want to build a lovely quality home and sometimes they are a little more purpose built (for example starter homes can feel more limited due to the budget required)

    I think that there are some valid points raised here, for example I agree that you don't need 100's of residential lots and that it will spawn more sims than the game can handle in most cases however if someone wants to do this they they can go right ahead as it is their game.

    Same with any lots that I build myself for my world, if they are not to a simmers liking or standard than be my guest to rip them out and place ones you prefer.

    I am not a fan of custom content in practice but only because I think it is easier to overcome problems without the cc in the game, I am in absolute awe of some of the cc makers out there and wish I had the ability to make some of the things they do but it goes over my head. I think this is the only real cc argument for me, I am a fairly switched on person when it comes to computers and software but I wouldn't know where to start if something non-standard was causing my game to have problems.

    I think some builders (not myself) have a wonderful talent for making lots individual without using cc, changing the textures and the combinations chosen can make the same items feel very different.

    For me The Sims has always been about playing your own game, it doesn't matter how others play theirs or what they do with my world after they have downloaded it.

    PS Thanks to Reg for the mention! :D
  • Damienf519Damienf519 Posts: 6,527 Member
    edited July 2012
    tjstreak,

    Just because some people including you aren't having problems with some things, doesn't mean that no one is. Also, just because you're having a problem doesn't mean other people are not having that same problem. I've never had a problem with large worlds on my machine, with around two hundred sims, but I know that other people have. You might not have problems with CC, but I know for fact that it has caused a lot of serious problems with other people, so I don't recommend using it. People don't always tell you if they use CC or not, so I constantly have to ask people whether or not their world uses it, because I make it a policy not to install it.

    Also, no where did I say you could have no large lots, even residential ones, but it is possible to squeeze a lot more onto a single twenty by twenty lot than you might think. Plus I do prefer smaller bars/clubs to the gigantic ones EA made for Bridgeport. I prefer bigger libraries and museums in my towns, but even there I have to compromise a bit, because those can easily be a bigger drain on frame-rate than the bars, or even the home.

    Plus, of all the lot types, "no visitors allowed" with nothing on it, causes the least amount of problems. Plus if you don't put the empty lots in, players won't be able to add street addresses later. When you're playing the actual game, it doesn't let you add them when you plop a new lot down. In addition, if you don't add empty lots in create a World, you can easily design a world without enough space to add your own lots without thinking about it. The issue you had with someone putting a 64 by 64 lot between a junkyard, and a warehouse, not wanting to put your mansion there is understandable, but that wouldn't have been a problem had the person who designed the map chosen a better spot for the lot, or had placed the other stuff somewhere else.

    Also, how can you say that residential lots don't add that much to the game? They are the most important lot designation in the entire game. No residential lots, and players won't even be able to play with a map, other than using the edit in game mode, and altering some of the community lots. plus there won't be any sims in your town other than the NPCs and some sims that should be NPC, such as the "consignment store clerks" are not, and thus require a home. I wish EA had made them NPCs instead of making the simulation pick a resident at random.

    Also, whenever I play a world with only fifty sims living there, unless it only has a few community lots, it will always feel empty to me. You won't get a lot of sims visiting your community lots unless you have a fairly large number of sims relative to all the visitable community lots in your town. Put one hundred sims in a map with just one of all the base game venues and rabbit holes, no duplicates of anything. Than put a hundred sims on a map with every single venue in the game, plus individual lots for all the rabbit hole buildings, again, don't place any duplicates. After you do that, compare the number of sims visiting each community lot on average. But even more important, sims working at the different rabbit hole careers need co workers. Plus it can take a long time for story progression to do its thing.
  • tjstreaktjstreak Posts: 808 Member
    edited July 2012
    Simmers, and particularly those on this board, have a nasty habit of marching in lock step and really don't tolerate dissenting opinions very well. The only controversy I have caused is disagreeing with Damien's post.

    I did not make a personal attack on Damien personally. I did not call him names. I did not call him a ***** head or any other such thing. I just wish the same courtesy could be extended to me.

    As far as equipment, my computer is no slouch. It has a 25mh I7 processor. It has lots of memory. I got it last December, so it is pretty up to date.

    The problem with a lot of sims is not really a matter of processing power. It's a matter of crowding. (Sometimes I wonder if people making posts actually play the game.)

    Ever been in a room with eight or more sims in it? What happens? They get in each other's way. They stand in doorways so other sims can't get by. They sort of dance around each other. Of course, if you have a second entrance to that room, they can walk all around that home. Now multiply that by a factor of three. Instead of eight sims in that room, you now have 24. This becomes a first rate mess.

    Now assume you have a school in your town. All the kids show up at school. They each take their turn going through the door, and they take a lot of time doing it. Now imagine that instead of four sims going to school, you have 20. It can take a sim all morning just to get into the school house.

    Ditto with places like the office building.

    I remember an experience with an out of control neighborhood, in good old Sunset Valley, which managed to accumulate 230 sims. One of my sims went to the swimming pool, but being a sim, needed to use the toilet. He got into the WC just fine, but could not get out because the exit was blocked by a mob of sims. Then the grim reaper shows up and starts taking sims -- about a dozen of them. Dirge music and all. I sort of gave up on that game, and I don't think my sim ever got out of the WC.

    Now perhaps you have never had this problem. Just count yourself lucky, because if you play long enough, you will. That others have had this problem should be a warning. You should not think of yourself as some special snowflake.

    Now, I have never suggested limiting a community to 50 sims, although that probably would not be a bad idea. Instead, I usually set Twallan's story progression to limit population to 150. I target 150 because I know that it gives me some slack. At 200 sims, I know there will be problems. The margin between 150 and 200 is enough to avoid problems.

    I would caution you here. Pescado's story progression does not manage population -- it is contrary to his philosophy and is one of the major differences between Twallan story progression and Awesome story progression. As for EA story progression, the less said, the better.

    As for empty lots, I really don't see the purpose. I guess giving them street numbers is something of a benefit, for those who care about such things. But I really fail to see where an empty lot offers any advantage at all.

    Assume I have downloaded a really nice house from TSR. (I know many don't like them, including myself, but give some of their Favored Artists some credit.) It's on a 40 x 40 lot. However, the ideal spot for it already has an empty 30 x 30 lot. So I either have to bulldoze the existing lot, or forego using the lot I really want to use. This is what I mean by world builders trying to micromanage how I play my game.

    Placing that 30 by 30 empty lot really added nothing to my game, but it made it more difficult to modify the world to something I wanted to play with.

    For another example, I downloaded a gothic cathedral a while ago. I really like this cathedral. It's really ideal for a large city cathedral. However it is on a big 64 x 64 lot. This makes it very hard to place in most worlds. Now it seems that a world builder could be flexible enough to allow me spaced to place my cathedral. But nooooooo!

    Now the funny thing is, people on this forum talk about evil custom content but never give any examples of custom content borking worlds. Meanwhile they ignore the elephant in the room, which is "cc free worlds" which have serious lag caused by too many lots.

  • Damienf519Damienf519 Posts: 6,527 Member
    edited July 2012
    tjstreak wrote:
    Simmers, and particularly those on this board, have a nasty habit of marching in lock step and really don't tolerate dissenting opinions very well. The only controversy I have caused is disagreeing with Damien's post.

    I did not make a personal attack on Damien personally. I did not call him names. I did not call him a ***** head or any other such thing. I just wish the same courtesy could be extended to me.

    You don't want to follow my advice? Fine. You don't have too, and I don't care. I'm just trying to help people out who are running into a problem. I don't even always follow the advice I'm giving people here. There are other things to bring into consideration such as aesthetics. Also where did I or anyone else here say you insulted me. I wasn't insulted by you.
Sign In or Register to comment.
Return to top