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The Total Lack of Disability Representation
ForbiddenOrgans
Posts: 19 Member
It is my understanding that the Sims strives for realism and markets itself as being representative of real life in a fairly accurate way. I also have noticed that they have put effort into acknowledging the need for and then providing more features for different kinds of diversity, mainly with how many options there are now for skin colors in CAS to make different races and how they've introduced different gender presentations and even custom pronouns. However, in the year of our lord 2022, there is nothing whatsoever for disability rep in the game, at all, whether it be physical or mental. As such, as someone who is on the spectrum and cares a lot about disability rep and the longstanding issue of ableism of all kinds in our society and media, I wanted to just take a minute to go over how I think the Sims could include disabilities in the game and what I believe they should do.
First, I want to talk about physical disabilities. The most obvious aspect of this is that I feel there should be different mobility aids in the game, such as wheelchairs, crutches, walkers, and canes as well as prosthetic limbs so that you can make amputee sims as well. Along with this, there should then also be something like OSHA guidelines with build mode so that, along with all the lot requirements there already are for commercial lots, there would also be more requirements for accessibility. With that would be build mode items such as elevators and ramps and I personally would love to see the like "as seen on TV" home appliance stuff like stair lifts and all those different bathtub things like handles and steps and maybe also those walk in tubs with the doors.
My other thought with all of this stuff is that a bunch of disabilities would be done as traits assigned in CAS. Perhaps instead of individual conditions, it could be like "wheelchair user," or "limited mobility." Canes and walkers could also just be available as accessories for elder sims, potentially, since they are the most common mobility aids used by elderly people. There could also be "invisible" disabilities that don't come with any sort of physical aid or anything but affect how a sim does things in the game. For example, there could be a Parkinson's trait that doesn't come with any sort of visible indicator but does affect your sim's ability to do things like cook or something and maybe would just make some tasks take longer to at least sort of emulate the experience someone would have with trying to do those things in spite of their hands shaking the whole time.
That would be more for the mobility type of physical disability but I would also want inclusion of deafness and blindness in this realm of physical disability. With blindness, I would want both partial and full blindness options, blind eyes in CAS, eye patches, braille books on the bookshelves, and technology aids for the computers and phones for blind sims, as well as seeing eye dogs (no, not only with the pet pack - they're a tool, not a pet.) For deafness, I would want hearing aids, cochlear implants, sign language interpreters for school and events, and maybe sign language as a skill that deaf sims all start out as being proficient at but other sims have to learn and get better at and it would also effect the outcomes of social interactions. Maybe if there's a skill for sign language there could also be a skill for lip reading to help deaf sims get better at understanding hearing sims who don't know sign language.
Then, most importantly, I would add the most realistic aspect of real life, which is that "stuff happens." Your sim should be able to become disabled in different ways through random injury and accident at different points in life. I also think that it could be kind of cool to introduce the ability for a sim to break a bone and get a cast and maybe crutches and then, if you have HYS, a teen sim who has that happen could then go around getting their cast signed. But yeah, there would definitely need to be the ability for able bodied sims to end up blind, deaf, in a wheelchair, etc.
Lastly, but very importantly, is mental health. (Side note - this could also call for and come with therapist and psych careers.) People have made cc mental health traits and the Sims does have a couple that seem like they're supposed to represent mental health stuff (although the paranoid trait uh Isn't Great) but only having that and the erratic one is not enough. We need like depression, anxiety, adhd, autism, bipolar, and some personality disorders, and I would also want to add Down Syndrome, which would come with a different set of physical traits as well. I would also want to include multiple different eating disorders because they are so prevalent and important, and I would like to think that EA/Maxis would understand the importance of that, but I'm worried that they, like many others, would say something about how it's "not appropriate" or whatever. Naturally, mental health struggles would impact multiple different aspects of your sim and, with them, there would be therapy and meds depending on what the condition is. Tbh if you're *really* going for realism, you could even include bouncing around between meds for a while when you first get them until you land on the right one and get it dialed in.
First, I want to talk about physical disabilities. The most obvious aspect of this is that I feel there should be different mobility aids in the game, such as wheelchairs, crutches, walkers, and canes as well as prosthetic limbs so that you can make amputee sims as well. Along with this, there should then also be something like OSHA guidelines with build mode so that, along with all the lot requirements there already are for commercial lots, there would also be more requirements for accessibility. With that would be build mode items such as elevators and ramps and I personally would love to see the like "as seen on TV" home appliance stuff like stair lifts and all those different bathtub things like handles and steps and maybe also those walk in tubs with the doors.
My other thought with all of this stuff is that a bunch of disabilities would be done as traits assigned in CAS. Perhaps instead of individual conditions, it could be like "wheelchair user," or "limited mobility." Canes and walkers could also just be available as accessories for elder sims, potentially, since they are the most common mobility aids used by elderly people. There could also be "invisible" disabilities that don't come with any sort of physical aid or anything but affect how a sim does things in the game. For example, there could be a Parkinson's trait that doesn't come with any sort of visible indicator but does affect your sim's ability to do things like cook or something and maybe would just make some tasks take longer to at least sort of emulate the experience someone would have with trying to do those things in spite of their hands shaking the whole time.
That would be more for the mobility type of physical disability but I would also want inclusion of deafness and blindness in this realm of physical disability. With blindness, I would want both partial and full blindness options, blind eyes in CAS, eye patches, braille books on the bookshelves, and technology aids for the computers and phones for blind sims, as well as seeing eye dogs (no, not only with the pet pack - they're a tool, not a pet.) For deafness, I would want hearing aids, cochlear implants, sign language interpreters for school and events, and maybe sign language as a skill that deaf sims all start out as being proficient at but other sims have to learn and get better at and it would also effect the outcomes of social interactions. Maybe if there's a skill for sign language there could also be a skill for lip reading to help deaf sims get better at understanding hearing sims who don't know sign language.
Then, most importantly, I would add the most realistic aspect of real life, which is that "stuff happens." Your sim should be able to become disabled in different ways through random injury and accident at different points in life. I also think that it could be kind of cool to introduce the ability for a sim to break a bone and get a cast and maybe crutches and then, if you have HYS, a teen sim who has that happen could then go around getting their cast signed. But yeah, there would definitely need to be the ability for able bodied sims to end up blind, deaf, in a wheelchair, etc.
Lastly, but very importantly, is mental health. (Side note - this could also call for and come with therapist and psych careers.) People have made cc mental health traits and the Sims does have a couple that seem like they're supposed to represent mental health stuff (although the paranoid trait uh Isn't Great) but only having that and the erratic one is not enough. We need like depression, anxiety, adhd, autism, bipolar, and some personality disorders, and I would also want to add Down Syndrome, which would come with a different set of physical traits as well. I would also want to include multiple different eating disorders because they are so prevalent and important, and I would like to think that EA/Maxis would understand the importance of that, but I'm worried that they, like many others, would say something about how it's "not appropriate" or whatever. Naturally, mental health struggles would impact multiple different aspects of your sim and, with them, there would be therapy and meds depending on what the condition is. Tbh if you're *really* going for realism, you could even include bouncing around between meds for a while when you first get them until you land on the right one and get it dialed in.
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With the way people are behaving over bugs I can't imagine how they will act if the (insert disability here) were to start glitching and people start getting triggered. I would like disabilities but personally see it as something the devs should stay away from for their own sanity.
Plus it's like a vicious cycle imo. The more realism you bring the more serious people take it, which means the more easily triggered people become because they see it as their real personal life instead of a game.
Now Sims in wheelchairs would be insane to have to create the animations alone they can't just stand up and give another Sim a hug or kiss, how do they get into bed what activities are they locked out of completely such as rock climbing will they require a specific shower they can go into with their wheelchair it's a lot to think about and so much work to create.
As you mentioned blind and deaf would probably be the easier way to go, I think a Sims version of sign language would be nice to have.
Agree with this, think it's going to take huge amount of time for something that is likely not going to be used much if were being completely honest. Also I think it would open a huge rabbit hole in who gets represented then is it just wheelchair person, is it the person who is blind. Ones with mental challenges that don't fall into categories of erratic personality, what about those that are missing arms or need prosthetic arms. Think list of disabilities would be long and require large chunks of resources probably to be added.
Also don't think you need to be represented in everything thinkable way to be able to enjoy the game, less there some deeper underlaying problems.
I think that would benefit the game in the longer run, like we saw with the recent wants and fears we kinda need more different things for our sims to live our lives otherwise the disabilities will just be different variants of sims struggling to do their job or talk with sims.
And second, Maxis showed us, that inclusion is a big thing and adding more disabilities would be the next step. Wheelchairs are "normal" and part of life. And it would be a great chance, that being wheelies are able to live a normal life, with a job, with woohoo, with children and with sports.
Modders will no doubt hate how difficult it'll be to fix and update mods for this too, especially more animation orientated mods or fixes
I can see adding minor things like visible hearing aides as a CAS item which would still be nice to get in the games lifespan, but until a future Sims game adding more game changers like the use of crutches will just be too much of a hassle for every player, and the developement team to really implement without spaghetti coding the game.
I don't think the Paranoid trait is meant to be representative of any specific mental health issues. It's just there to represent paranoid conspiracy theorists. All premade sims with the trait are people who are connected to, or investigating the StrangerVille conspiracy. Though now that you mention traits, this creates an issue with traits meant to specifically represent mental health: many conditions express themselves very differently from person to person, and you risk accusations of stereotyping and/or being disrespectful.
As for the other stuff, no to eating disorders. Yeah, it's important to talk about these things; I've dealt with my own eating disorders and I know how important it is to talk about it. But the game is meant to be light-hearted and fun. Things will need to be made with that in mind. It also creates this catch-22: you either have a shallow take that isn't too serious, but risk looking like you're being disrespectfully flippant with real-life issues; or you create situations that would make many people uncomfortable, clash against the tone of the game, and provide gameplay that's more limiting than fun.
But I think traits could be a good way of portraying certain mental health issues, if you go about it in a way that fits the tone of the game and doesn't create too much risk. Like you can't have a Depressed trait. But Gloomy is good because you can interpret that as depression, but not being identified as depression lets you interpret it other ways if you want. An Anxious trait would work because it would be used to represent people with GAD or other anxiety disorders, or just people who want sims that are a little anxious.
Imo, the best way to handle disabilities atm is to start small, keep the game's limits in mind, and to keep them simple and easy to recognize, while still keeping the spirit of the game intact.
Signed: Someone with a bunch of diagnosed mental health issues and a memory disability.
The Sims 4 hasn't introduced a new musical instrument since 2017
> I guess the challenge with wheelchairs is not so much the animation of the chairs themselves but the lack of physical interaction between sitting and standing Sims. The game has nothing to offer in this regard, everything would have to be created from scratch and they simply can't afford this.
Sorry, but no.
There is already interaction between sitting and standing sims. As long as the wheelchair isn't moving, it acts like a "normal" chair. Right now, I sit at my desk and operate with my laptop. If I sat on a "normal" chair, you won't recognize, that I'm a wheelchair user.
What needs to be change it's the way the sims moves ingame, like going to bed. It's nearly similar like moving on a loveseat near to a second sim.
I could give you more examples, but I'm not a native speeker. They don't have to do everything from scratch, that's absolutely no valid argument.
Sims Are Simple
I'm not saying that this should change. You say that the Sims strives for realism, but that's never been the case. The original Sims base game was set in suburban America, which puts it in contrast to a lot of other fantasy-focused games, but that's not the same as being realistic, its just that the environment is more relatable to members of the original game's target audience. The Sims have always been simplified and cartoonish. It is a game after all. I think that if they tried to design sims so that their AI would be just as complex as human psychology it would be a massive programming lift for very little game play payout.
Depression in Real Life Versus the Sims
Contrast this with the Gloomy trait, the Sims equivalent of depression. It has a few key symptoms that are commonly present in depression (sadness, sluggishness, lack of interest in some activities). It represents depression in a way that makes sense in the context of sims simplified personalities. Its how you or I would experience depression if we only had three non-interacting traits. Also, because its so obviously specific to sim psychology, nobody thinks they're getting detailed insight into real life depression from playing a Gloomy character.
When someone posts a screenshot of their simself, I know that's not what they really look like. It's a simplified representation. When someone selects their simself's traits, Gloomy or otherwise, I know that's not how they really behave. Again, it's a simplified representation.
The other mental illness traits are as follows: Hot-Headed (intermittent explosive disorder), Loner (social anxiety), Jealous (morbid jealousy), Kleptomaniac and you already mentioned Erratic (schizoaffective disorder?) and Paranoid.
-Yes, person I barely know, you have my blessing to hang out with Johnny Zest.
-No person with the mean, hot-headed and self-absorbed traits, I don't think you should get married.
I was talking of physical interaction, not chatting or watching a movie together. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe there is not a single "touching" animation between a sitting and a standing Sim in the whole game. If your Sim wants to hug another Sim, give him a cup of tea, console him, slap him in the face or throw a water balloon after him, the other will always stand up first (or both will sit down together closely to each other).
There's not though?
Sims socializing yes. Sims physically touching in some manner while one is standing and the other is sitting. No.
There isn't any interaction I've seen thus far of sims physically touching in any kind of way with sitting down and standing up. Started thinking about other simple interactions like how would first kiss go with a sim in a wheel chair and one standing up? There definitely needs to be a interaction of one sim leaning down to do a kiss or be kissed. Actually some various romantic interactions would definitely need to be reworked in romance with touching along with mean interactions (shoving, fighting) less these sims just kinda get locked out of a lot of stuff and that would suck since they'll definitely be locked out of various things physically for sure and things that are inaccessible.
How do they go about picking up a toddler? Putting them to bed? Would they be able to tuck them into sleep? Taking a baby out of the bassinet? Playing with them? How do these sims act during a fire and need to get out fast? Sims just hugging? Definitely gonna need a ramp for them for access buildings less you make ever lot just accessible to easily manuever? A special slow dance for them and dancing in general. Cooking animations?
There's a lot of things I see having to be reworked indefinitely for them. If it's gonna be done best to do it right to make it feel like care was gone into it.
Repose en paix mamie tu va me manquer :
1923-2016 mamie
But I thought of a feature that is not too relevant but probably much simpler: physical performance.
Just like RPG games, sims have various physical abilities, such as strength, stamina, speed. These affect their activities. For example, a sim with high strength usually has a higher chance of winning in fight, but it will different if they're clumsy/opponent with a cane in the inventory or has higher fitness skill; a sim with high stamina is more able to continue physical activity like cleaning and gardening, a sim with high speed are running faster. Physical performance also affects the performance of fitness activities like real life.
Regardless of implementation difficulty, I also thought of one thing: certain postures can affect physiological performance, such as pelvic forward tilt has limited speed, hunchback (possibly, I don't know this) has limited strength. TS4 can adjust the body structure to bring out a similar postures, but no effect other than appearance.
Also tegardless of implementation difficulty, how to deal with the relationship between disability and daily activities? (Interrogative, not rhetorical). After all, most disabled people in real life are not "fictional disabled heroes". In real life, there may be (or indeed) disabled people like Yang Guo and Fu Hongxue, but I don't think there are really disabled people like Wu Zi Mu.
Sometimes it's not me who talks to you, it's machine translation
She/Her but you can call me as any pronouns
I agree with most of this. If TS4 is going to be the Simself game rather than some silly, exaggerated life mimic, then yes, it will never be inclusive until it is actually inclusive.
Think of it from a game perspective. Do you really think builders are going to want to sit there making sure their Sim builds are up to OSHA standards? Do you think live mode players will be happy receiving a pop up that their Sim is now deaf, blind, disabled, etc.? I know if I saw anything of the sort, I’d be super taken aback.
I do think that there’s a balance that can be achieved. I like the idea of canes for elders (we had these in Sims 3 and they were great), wheelchairs, eye patches, and cochlear implants (with the stipulation that they are aesthetic only). But beyond that, I think everything else is just unnecessary, holds no bearing on inclusivity, and would not provide any meaningful gameplay.
And, I’m sorry, but the idea of a Parkinson’s trait in The Sims just sounds downright awful and disrespectful.
OP, If budget was no issue I believe that all that you mentioned could be added to the sims 4. It won’t be an easy feat, that’s for sure, but it is possible.
The only TRUE reason why most or none of this will ever be added is:
The community.
Not. A. Chance.
Some people would have you believe that if a simmer has no disabilities in real life, it is not for them to play with a disabled sim in a game.
But hey, what if I just want to tell a story about a disabl….
NO!! YOU’RE ABSOLUTELY DISGUSTING!!
See, some folks want inclusion and representation in a game but at the same time they won’t be able to handle other, very random people playing with that special representation, especially when those random people have no clue about what it’s like to have - in this instance- a disability.
That’s only one of the many potential issues that could arise.
People take this game way too seriously, although that’s just my opinion.
I don’t take anything too seriously when a game’s involved, unless I invested in a game that’s seriously broken and includes too many serious phone addicts and other seriously annoying things…
And No mental health illnesses should not be in the game. My mental health condition is not entertainment. It’s not something that would make for very fun game play and they are all so different it would be impossible to represent everyone accurately. It would be incredibly disrespectful.
I absolutely understand you. However, until EA/Maxis stops the tag line and patting themselves on the back for how inclusive and 'diverse' they are and catering to only those they favor, then I will keep requesting they actually become inclusive and diverse include the rest of the world out here.
It seems to me EA/Maxis is only interested in representation for a small amount of people who have very loud voices and lobbying powers. That is not inclusivity nor diversity. That is catering.
They go on about how the game reflects the worlds we live in (our neck of the woods) however, it doesn't represent those people in those 'worlds'. They go out of their way over and over to make sure some get a lot of attention and content and changes in the game. That is not inclusivity. If we look out our windows we see disabled folks, disabled children who meet a physical challenge daily. We see other types of people who are deeply devoted to their beliefs. This game has no such representation of any of these people.
I would have preferred The Sims had remained a life simulator about exaggerating how people handle situations and life but it's EA/Maxis who chose to turn the series into a game or avatar about Representation. With that in mind then yes, if they are going to say it's a simself game about representation then they should actually start working on that instead of just catering one way.
I'm very happy with older games where the games mimic life and exaggerate how crazy we all can get if there is a clown making us cry, but I'm not ok with hypocrisy of a life representation when more than half the world we live in is missing and this tag line inclusive and diverse is nothing more than a big empty farce.