I want babies back, I want them to be real sims, the way they were in TS3 in which game you could see their needs, their age, their relationships with other family members and family friends and where sims can take them for a walk, to visit granny or to the park, and I want them to have legs and be able to make mom/dad bath them as TS2 babies. That´s what 2014 TS4 babies should be!!!
I want family trees back, and not only family trees to "see" who is who but for the game to keep track of the kind of relationship that people inside this family tree should have, I don´t want dad feeling flirty with a niece because he does not know who she is!!! (this is even illegal or close to it)
And I WANT TODDLERS BACK, they are a very important feature, families are not worth to be played without them and with the babies being an object tied to the crib. This is killing all the fan of playing a family and that was a great part of the game (IMO)
Trying to change our family gameplay into the poorly thought RPG/goal features TS4 offer us is (IMO) the worst error EA has made with this game, it is worse even than the lack of Open World or Cast (which is bad enough itself)
EA hear to us please, but hear right, you heard us saying we didn´t like sims leaving the baby on the floor and how the hell you understood that we wanted them tied to the crib!!?? hear what we are asking for "We want babies and toddlers to play with them as part of a family, with real personality, animations and interactions, with plenty of stuff and inside a family that is acknowledged by the game as FAMILY" hear to us because we sims-family players are several million simmers and we are your fanbase and we have been for 14 years supporting your bussiness with our money and our fidelity!
You can see relationships with family members, but only from the family member's view; if you click on the relationship panel the baby shows up with the relationship level. One thing that's weird though is if your Sim has a baby with an inactive Sim that baby will still show up in your relationship panel even if you've never met the kid -- found that out with my baby daddy Sim (which means I've at least been able to keep casual track of his brood; guess it fills in for the family tree a bit).
I can live with the bassinet babies if we get real toddlers, ones that are more like Sims 2 where they could get into mischief like playing in the toilet or making messes, the ability to bathe them in the bathtub (and maybe they splash around and make a huge puddle to be cleaned up). I want them to have a starting trait but no aspiration. Or maybe just a "Grow Up" aspiration, with three goals: walking, talking and potty training, and objects that would help them get a head start on the child skills.
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Fun must be always -- Tomas Hertl (San Jose Sharks hockey player)
Two questions:
1. If management is going to say no to the things most people want in the game, why does it keep on sending the gurus for feedback? They already know what we want by now, don't they?
2. If management doesn't send the gurus for feedback but they're asking for themselves, what's the point if they know well that management has set its limits. Why ask the same question over and over again if they know by now what are things that'll never return, because managemente has told them so? Why create debate at the forums, why create the forums for that matter? As I see things, the 'feedback department' isn't working. At least not that I know.
I know those were more than 2 questions, lol, but they're all about the same. Why ask the customers what they want on a product, why all those surveys full of wonderful descriptions of possible amazing EPs if they know they can't give us what we really want. Example, the pools. They patched the pools in without the diving boards. Why? Was it so difficult to include one single object? And those pre-patch pictures in Twitter, they made the people think there were going to be diving boards. Again, why? Why put our hopes up with each hint if in the end diving boards weren't going to be. Another example: careers. They keep on saying there are two careers on the next patch. People is asking if that will be all, they don't give a proper answer. They either keep silence or say things like, 'those two are the ones we are working on". Why not say the truth, that it will be only two careers this time. No, they rather make the people believe there's more so they remain hooked. So it's either a lot of hype about nothing or a complete silence. Either way things are never ever clear.
You know, at this point I don't believe absolutely anything of what EA says, even worse I don't care anymore. I play Sims 4 as well as 2 and 3. I play 4 as it is, knowing that it won't be improved. Things will be added, shiny new objects and stuff that will probably add to the gameplay, but the things we are repeatedly asking, yelling for? I don't think so.
I may as well play Sims 5 IF it's ever released and if it is taken care of by people who love the sims as much as I do. And they will need to have a better and straightforward PR team. I'm sorry, but EA's silence isn't gonna sell EPs, if anything it will keep on making things unclear and dissapointing their customers. We want the truth and nothing but the truth.
It could be whatever careers they can finish before the deadline will get added in. Thus, they can't say how many, exactly.
See how clear you were when explaining this? Well, that's what we need them to do!
Imagine one of the gurus saying: "Well guys, we got two careers ready to go. But we don't know at this moment how many more we'll be able to finish before the deadline." -- or something along those lines, I don't know what the exact wording would be.
The point is we need them to talk to us, explain to us. It's only words, they won't bite them!
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"First they ignore you. Then they laugh at you. Then they fight you. Then you win". ~ Mahatma Gandhi.
At this point I am beyond disappointed. I am shaking with anger. This means a lot to us and instead of coming along and placating us-even just giving a tiny glimmer of hope for better they continue to ignore us. Its ridiculous.
I'm pretty upset too and considering OFB is one of the most asked for EP's of all time, it's going to sell like hotcakes and part of me wants to cry considering that we might have to kiss our toddlers/family play goodbye. I never thought I wouldn't be a simmer. Since 2000, the first month TS1 came out, I have been a simmer and I thought I'd be a simmer till I was an old person, but I'm shocked that I may be quitting the series this iteration. I never thought I'd say that.
If a family EP isn't at least 2nd, I am boycotting all EP's and sticking to TS1, TS2 & TS3. I'm getting angry about this too, but all we can do is sit and watch. I really wish the devs would throw us a freaking bone here. We're all going crazy over here.
What I'd like to see is toddlers (and family trees) patched in for free, with basic interactions, clothing and objects...then a family EP that would expand toddler play and also add more options for other age groups. That would be the fairest way to handle it, and reassure the community that the toddler delay wasn't just a money grab but really was a lack of time to implement them properly. I'd rather wait a little longer for fully developed toddlers than just get something that's mish-mashed together in order to shut people up.
I'm still meh on an OFB pack, but if it brings more crafting options so my slacker Sim baby daddy can make money since he can't hold a regular job for long (as long as you can sell the crafted items without having to own/manage a store) as well as open restaurants so my Sims have a proper date destination, I'll be okay with it and hope that toddlers and more family play options are on the horizon. (Oh, and kids better be able to go out to eat with their parents/other adults -- biggest disappointment of the Sims 3 Bistro set is that kids couldn't eat out.)
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Fun must be always -- Tomas Hertl (San Jose Sharks hockey player)
Two questions:
1. If management is going to say no to the things most people want in the game, why does it keep on sending the gurus for feedback? They already know what we want by now, don't they?
2. If management doesn't send the gurus for feedback but they're asking for themselves, what's the point if they know well that management has set its limits. Why ask the same question over and over again if they know by now what are things that'll never return, because managemente has told them so? Why create debate at the forums, why create the forums for that matter? As I see things, the 'feedback department' isn't working. At least not that I know.
I know those were more than 2 questions, lol, but they're all about the same. Why ask the customers what they want on a product, why all those surveys full of wonderful descriptions of possible amazing EPs if they know they can't give us what we really want. Example, the pools. They patched the pools in without the diving boards. Why? Was it so difficult to include one single object? And those pre-patch pictures in Twitter, they made the people think there were going to be diving boards. Again, why? Why put our hopes up with each hint if in the end diving boards weren't going to be. Another example: careers. They keep on saying there are two careers on the next patch. People is asking if that will be all, they don't give a proper answer. They either keep silence or say things like, 'those two are the ones we are working on". Why not say the truth, that it will be only two careers this time. No, they rather make the people believe there's more so they remain hooked. So it's either a lot of hype about nothing or a complete silence. Either way things are never ever clear.
You know, at this point I don't believe absolutely anything of what EA says, even worse I don't care anymore. I play Sims 4 as well as 2 and 3. I play 4 as it is, knowing that it won't be improved. Things will be added, shiny new objects and stuff that will probably add to the gameplay, but the things we are repeatedly asking, yelling for? I don't think so.
I may as well play Sims 5 IF it's ever released and if it is taken care of by people who love the sims as much as I do. And they will need to have a better and straightforward PR team. I'm sorry, but EA's silence isn't gonna sell EPs, if anything it will keep on making things unclear and dissapointing their customers. We want the truth and nothing but the truth.
It could be whatever careers they can finish before the deadline will get added in. Thus, they can't say how many, exactly.
See how clear you were when explaining this? Well, that's what we need them to do!
Imagine one of the gurus saying: "Well guys, we got two careers ready to go. But we don't know at this moment how many more we'll be able to finish before the deadline." -- or something along those lines, I don't know what the exact wording would be.
The point is we need them to talk to us, explain to us. It's only words, they won't bite them!
Yep, I agree. The whole 'gag order' for future content is odd, but were they burned in the past by mentioning something that was supposedly coming but was never delivered? And fans went rabid? (Aside from the release os TS4, that is.)
...or maybe Family play isn't as popular as some of you want it to be...sure, you family players are very vocal and visible but the bottom line is, what do the majority of people want?...clearly there are a lot more people wanting something other than family play out there.
Oh joy, a "you people" comment.
Sims should be all about options -- you can add family play to the game but players aren't forced into it. You can Woohoo without consequence, just don't do the "Try for Baby" bit, or if you're like my slacker Sim, you Try for Baby with every female in town and they get stuck with the diapers and feedings. If you're going to add options for players who want something other than family play, then why not add in options for those who want expanded family play? They've done a bit of that already -- children in Sims 4 are probably better than in any other Sims game, but even they could be improved with expanded play options that don't require spending a lot of Simoleons (I'd like to see the return of play options like the Mary Mack clapping game, or even tag; cops and robbers might not be that politically correct in the current environment), and actually meeting kids/teens and school and asking to either bring them home or go to their house after school. And interactions like "do homework with..." which would help with Fun and Social needs while hitting the books.
The point is, when Sims 4 was first announced, they said that all age groups would be in the game...but then, "things change" and toddlers were left out. If OFB is indeed the first EP, I'll just have to figure that work on that started long before the toddler issue became a thing, and that we'll get toddlers in a future EP or better yet a patch the way they patched in ghosts and pools.
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Fun must be always -- Tomas Hertl (San Jose Sharks hockey player)
I worked the phones in customer service for 13 years (yea, I know, cue violin music. ) Getting yelled at and being asked the same questions over and over again is part of the job. Customer service is hard work. It's also a company's first defense against angry customers.
But Most of the Gurus aren't paid to be Customer Support, is it isn't their job; most of them are paid to be Designers or Programmers for the various teams involved with creating & updating a TheSims Game.
Think about the connection, if you didn't teach your child to walk, they would be clumsy when they grew up. If you didn't teach them how to talk then imagine they'd have terrible social traits, or became shy. it's this kind of connectivity in the gameplay that had players interested. How could someone who doesn't play this understand what it is we wanted. They can't. All they see is we want back toddlers and nothing more. How disappointing and silly.
Can I tell you just how much I love this? If you don't potty train your Sim toddler, maybe they get the slob tendencies like farting a lot and not flushing the toilet (of course, no one flushes the toilet since the pool patch broke that... ) or hygiene drops faster. Some sort of consequences for not doing your parental duty. That would add a lot to the game.
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Fun must be always -- Tomas Hertl (San Jose Sharks hockey player)
I didn't say *all* family simmers. I mean an entire section of the fan base who feel no toddlers and assorted issues missing from family play is game breaking. There's plenty of us who exist-this thread and others show that.
I'd like to know exactly where we have been addressed in a fashion that would stop fans feeling this way. I've not seen it or I wouldn't be here, and I'm sure plenty of others feel that way too or this thread wouldn't exist.
Well when you said 'an entire section' I thought that you meant 'an entire section'
My mistake.
It's been addressed on at least 2 different site:
-on Twitter a few times, but haven't checked in a few months so I'm not sure if they're still doing it
-in at least a dozen different threads on this very site, including most of the Ask a Guru Threads that they've had going over the last few months (although I think they said they're going to stop answering repeat questions on there, so you'd have to look to find it)
I worked the phones in customer service for 13 years (yea, I know, cue violin music. ) Getting yelled at and being asked the same questions over and over again is part of the job. Customer service is hard work. It's also a company's first defense against angry customers.
But Most of the Gurus aren't paid to be Customer Support, is it isn't their job; most of them are paid to be Designers or Programmers for the various teams involved with creating & updating a TheSims Game.
I understand what you're saying, but the Guru's are the ones' interfacing with the public. Like it or not our perception of the company is based on how they interact with us. I also had a lot of other responsibilities that weren't technically customer service but I was told to do them and was expected to do them well.
“I was so sure that I knew what they needed and what I wanted to sell them that I never stopped long enough to find out what it was they wanted to buy.”
― Chris Murray, The Extremely Successful Salesman's Club
Yesterday was a bit of a facer but it did serve a purpose. Those pictures were concept and I understand they have now been pulled. Having thought overnight I wonder if EA was testing our reaction. If so they certainly got it.
So as I said in another thread we need to wait for some kind of communication from the company. The family play side may not have been overlooked.
It saddens me to see people giving up before we definitely know what EA has planned. I would urge people to wait at least until Christmas for the announcement. If we have nothing by then that's the point to be really worried by the silence.
I'd like to see what they announce regarding future patches -- so far we've had a patch each month that's added something that either should have been in the base game or that improves base game play: October we got ghosts, November we got pools, December we're getting a couple of returning careers, and possibly the Mac version. I'm getting more convinced that if we're getting toddlers back it'll have to be in a free patch, one so that they can include toddlers in future EPs (especially a Generations-style pack), and two to keep the pitchforks and torches away from EA HQ in Redwood Shores. It's possible that toddlers might not come until the patch right before they release Sims 4: Generations (or whatever it's called), but I hope it means that they've done them right.
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Fun must be always -- Tomas Hertl (San Jose Sharks hockey player)
...or maybe Family play isn't as popular as some of you want it to be...sure, you family players are very vocal and visible but the bottom line is, what do the majority of people want?...clearly there are a lot more people wanting something other than family play out there.
Oh joy, a "you people" comment.
Sims should be all about options -- you can add family play to the game but players aren't forced into it. You can Woohoo without consequence, just don't do the "Try for Baby" bit, or if you're like my slacker Sim, you Try for Baby with every female in town and they get stuck with the diapers and feedings. If you're going to add options for players who want something other than family play, then why not add in options for those who want expanded family play? They've done a bit of that already -- children in Sims 4 are probably better than in any other Sims game, but even they could be improved with expanded play options that don't require spending a lot of Simoleons (I'd like to see the return of play options like the Mary Mack clapping game, or even tag; cops and robbers might not be that politically correct in the current environment), and actually meeting kids/teens and school and asking to either bring them home or go to their house after school. And interactions like "do homework with..." which would help with Fun and Social needs while hitting the books.
The point is, when Sims 4 was first announced, they said that all age groups would be in the game...but then, "things change" and toddlers were left out. If OFB is indeed the first EP, I'll just have to figure that work on that started long before the toddler issue became a thing, and that we'll get toddlers in a future EP or better yet a patch the way they patched in ghosts and pools.
I realize this...that's why I said that it IS necessary and SHOULD be included (and probably will), so be patient!...people take this stuff WAY too seriously...like the delay in progress is a blatant and personal attack on "them"...lol, that's just not the case
Two questions:
1. If management is going to say no to the things most people want in the game, why does it keep on sending the gurus for feedback? They already know what we want by now, don't they?
2. If management doesn't send the gurus for feedback but they're asking for themselves, what's the point if they know well that management has set its limits. Why ask the same question over and over again if they know by now what are things that'll never return, because managemente has told them so? Why create debate at the forums, why create the forums for that matter? As I see things, the 'feedback department' isn't working. At least not that I know.
I know those were more than 2 questions, lol, but they're all about the same. Why ask the customers what they want on a product, why all those surveys full of wonderful descriptions of possible amazing EPs if they know they can't give us what we really want. Example, the pools. They patched the pools in without the diving boards. Why? Was it so difficult to include one single object? And those pre-patch pictures in Twitter, they made the people think there were going to be diving boards. Again, why? Why put our hopes up with each hint if in the end diving boards weren't going to be. Another example: careers. They keep on saying there are two careers on the next patch. People is asking if that will be all, they don't give a proper answer. They either keep silence or say things like, 'those two are the ones we are working on". Why not say the truth, that it will be only two careers this time. No, they rather make the people believe there's more so they remain hooked. So it's either a lot of hype about nothing or a complete silence. Either way things are never ever clear.
You know, at this point I don't believe absolutely anything of what EA says, even worse I don't care anymore. I play Sims 4 as well as 2 and 3. I play 4 as it is, knowing that it won't be improved. Things will be added, shiny new objects and stuff that will probably add to the gameplay, but the things we are repeatedly asking, yelling for? I don't think so.
I may as well play Sims 5 IF it's ever released and if it is taken care of by people who love the sims as much as I do. And they will need to have a better and straightforward PR team. I'm sorry, but EA's silence isn't gonna sell EPs, if anything it will keep on making things unclear and dissappointing their customers. We want the truth and nothing but the truth.
Well the diving board object is not a feasible or useable item with out the animations required. What if they had placed a diving board in that pool that was just a single object and like decor had no real value because it had no animation. Every time the devs engage the programming engineers for a single object it cost the company money because it often pulls them off of a much longer and involved programming job to animate that object and add in the animation on all the sims that are expected to use that object. It is easy to ask for a simple design object - but one that requires animations for both the object and the characters that are to use them is a whole other subject. It is never as simple as it looks if the item you are wanting has animations and it is placed in the game with uses more than just viewing. Did you know that the diving board also requires work on all the spaces around this object and under this object in order for sims to just dive off the board or perhaps jump off the board into the air first or possibly a skilled diver may have even more animations off that board like the Sims did in Sims 2. your sims also must be able to swim under the board but not go through it or say climb out of the pool from under it in order for it have a realistic look to having it in your pool. Because of animations and expectations to do with a diving board object they are most usually added to the game with an ep where the animators and programmers are already animating and programming object like that already. Then there is not a disruption in the much larger project they are already working on. They become more acceptable cost wise to the people who hold the Maxis teams purse strings.
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@sparkfairy1, I do appreciate your "Never Give Up! Never Surrender!" attitude.
It's just that I'm no longer in the mood to argue with EA in hopes of changing their collective mind. I suspect that I'm not the only one. But, yes, I'd say EA already knows that they lost, judging by how much quieter this section of the forum has gotten.
Then again, it could just be because I'm sleepy and need a nap.
Thank you :-) like I say I totally understand it and to be honest they no longer deserve our concern given the way they have been treating players who feel this way. I'll get to your opinion soon enough and then EA can have a big party that we've disappeared. Until budgets shrink along with the shrinking player base. Then it might start to bite.
Yep. When there isn't anything for me to talk about then I won't. I'm sure EA will be so happy when the so -called rabble-rousers are gone. Then they'll get to deal with the sunshine and rainbows gang that are oh so happy with the game...except that a lot of them aren't, not anymore. S.u.c.k.s to be you EA.
It makes me laugh. I couldn't be nicer about this-yes I'm angry and frustrated but I've never been rude to a sim guru and I always say I'm HAPPY other people love 4-I just want that for myself and other players who are disappointed. I couldn't have been more loyal to the sims. But there are people who just want to abuse players like us just because we are disappointed, and that's really sad. I support my fellow simmers-I know there's stuff I hate in game that others love but I'd never campaign to rid the game of what they love just because of my personal tastes.
(Sorry for spamming but I'm seeing so many awesome comments that I want to respond to!)
I'm enjoying the Sims 4 -- but it doesn't mean it doesn't need improvement. And while I'm doing okay without toddlers, I know that I'd have an even richer experience with toddlers. I have a Sim who is in the Culinary career (at least till she gets to level 5 for the Master Chef aspiration) but my ultimate goal is for her to be a stay-at-home mom, maybe doing some writing to make extra money but her husband will be the primary breadwinner (he's currently in Tech Guru but I may switch him to Business when we get the new career patch). It'll still be fun, but having toddlers would make it more so.
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Fun must be always -- Tomas Hertl (San Jose Sharks hockey player)
I can't believe I'm saying this, but I think they've lost me. I have liked the game despite the (many) bugs and flaws. Things I didn't like -- the closed worlds, the lack of CASt, the inability to have active sims on a different lot do anything meaningful, the lack of family trees -- I figured I would get used to.
Then I fired up the Sims 3 again. I can play it rotationally with the help of mods and in fact, I believe I can turn aging on/off per household. Everything I want in Sims 4, I have in Sims 3. And I'm finding emotions are there as well -- dreams pop up often depending on what is happening with the sim (heh, like the male sim I had at a celebrity party where he jumped into the hot tub where there were three naked female celebrities -- and the wish to woohoo in the hot tub popped up immediately).
While in Sims 3, I have to use mods to get my Sims to look the way I want and to eliminate many bugs, at least those mods exist. Maybe in a month or so, when I see what the December patch brings, I'll give it another look. But I'm sure not going to throw my money at Sims 4 the way I did Sims 3. I can wait for sales.
I am, in Sims 3, playing logged in, hoping they're still tracking telemetry.
They've said time & Time again that they are hearing you family players & that they understand your concerns.
But Like it or not, Non-Disclosure Agreements are a very real thing, and come with very real consequences.
Their silence isn't them ignoring you or pretending they cannot hear you, it's them doing their jobs & keeping their jobs.
When they are allowed to tell us something, they will
If that's the case there's absolutely nothing stopping them popping in this thread and assuring everyone they are being heard. They *used* to do that-the EA/Maxis silence shows that quite clearly.
This is what I was just going to say. We aren't paranoid because we feel we're being ignored - we are being ignored.
The one thing that encourages me is that this thread hasn't been moved to the Ideas and Feedback graveyard...yet. I'm just hoping that the silence means they're working on it, but don't want to raise expectations that can't be totally met. Maybe we don't get toddlers who can get into trouble, but we at least get toddlers that add variety to our families.
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Fun must be always -- Tomas Hertl (San Jose Sharks hockey player)
I can't believe I'm saying this, but I think they've lost me. I have liked the game despite the (many) bugs and flaws. Things I didn't like -- the closed worlds, the lack of CASt, the inability to have active sims on a different lot do anything meaningful, the lack of family trees -- I figured I would get used to.
Then I fired up the Sims 3 again. I can play it rotationally with the help of mods and in fact, I believe I can turn aging on/off per household. Everything I want in Sims 4, I have in Sims 3. And I'm finding emotions are there as well -- dreams pop up often depending on what is happening with the sim (heh, like the male sim I had at a celebrity party where he jumped into the hot tub where there were three naked female celebrities -- and the wish to woohoo in the hot tub popped up immediately).
While in Sims 3, I have to use mods to get my Sims to look the way I want and to eliminate many bugs, at least those mods exist. Maybe in a month or so, when I see what the December patch brings, I'll give it another look. But I'm sure not going to throw my money at Sims 4 the way I did Sims 3. I can wait for sales.
I am, in Sims 3, playing logged in, hoping they're still tracking telemetry.
I understand and respect your opinion. I'm going to "like" your post even though "like" doesn't really apply. They need an "I feel ya" button.
“I was so sure that I knew what they needed and what I wanted to sell them that I never stopped long enough to find out what it was they wanted to buy.”
― Chris Murray, The Extremely Successful Salesman's Club
Zolt there were Sims 2 players that said exactly what you said when Sims 3 came out and many never moved to Sims 3 at all. Some did come back when Sims 4 came out because they got back the full control of their sims - but like you and lots of us are getting annoyed without the toddlers because the family aspect of the game including the toddler stage are really important to these same simmers who found Sims intolerable. Like you Maxis may lost them again as these simmers just are not happy with the game without the full family in tact as well as the ability to control their whole Sims world. So rest assured you are not alone.
I love to control all my sims seamlessly as well as play with whole families - but unlike many was able to adapt and even find a way to enjoy Sims 3. On the same note i was very aware the Sims in sims 3 were very robotic and was not full of personality like Sims 2 were. Appearance wise well Sims 2 nor Sims 3 would win any award in my veiw - at least not easily, but I did managed to always be able to make my sims good enough i was satisfied with them. I have to admit Sims 4 sims are the easiest to get lovely sims, just as Sims 4 build mode is much easier to make some of the best houses I have ever made so fast. I am not a creator, nor did I ever have the patience to sit there tweaking a house to perfection like the actual simmer creators I know and adore can do. I do not fool myself - I know I am not a creator - but i have to say i am quite pleased with what comes very easily in build mode for Sims 4. Of course I understand how the Sims 4 world map style makes it hard for creators to create with limits. But you mention Sims 1 - which I agree it does seem to be a much more advanced Sims 1 map - but if you think of the Sims 1 map - when it started out it had 10 house lots and nothing else. By the time the game was completed the map had endless places to go and fun things to do and there was never an ep added world that you could not access from the one map. Never mind the fact they released the code for simmers to add their own additional streets and lot areas.
Overall that was really the ideal system if you ask me - especially if compared to Sims 3 where going to another world even from an ep meant starting over or at least using a mod - but they would never be a part of the same world you were playing. So eventually there will be lots more room for creators to create. That is just a matter of waiting it out - unlike us that are missing an entire life stage and have nothing to back up the idea they will actually be added to this game. So eventually you will have the room to further create - i t's a given seeing all ep world always has some open lots. I just wish for the sake of those players who waited to come back to Sims 4 and cannot adapt and enjoy a different play style - that they did not finally come back in vain.
I know myself even though i was able to adapt and had a ton of fun with Sims 3 - even I will find not having the toddlers a bit tough to swollow.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
In dreams - I LIVE!
In REALITY, I simply exist.....
Hello everyone. I just wanted to take this opportunity to let you know that we are watching this thread and taking your comments and feedback very seriously. The reason behind not commenting is that we have nothing to say yet. We are working on the game constantly. We are improving and enhancing content every day. And, we do take everyone's feedback into consideration.
This is the reality of game development. You can't make everything for everyone. What you can do is have a design vision and then make your decisions based on that vision. The vision for The Sims 4 was to refocus attention on the Sims. What makes them intriguing? How to make them feel more alive? How to bring the inner Sim to the surface? Not all the decisions the studio make will be popular with all the players. That's a universal truth.
And, as we have said all along is, this is just the beginning. A Sims game is a massive undertaking. The base game is the foundation for everything that follows. Look back at The Sims 3 or The Sims 2 when the base games first launched. Then look at them again after 5 years of added content. They are so different at the end of that journey from when they started.
Please, know this. The team working on The Sims cares deeply about the game they are making and the people who play it. We are not ignoring you.
SimGuruBChick Infinite Diversity, Infinite Combinations
Thanks to 06bon06 for my lovely new signature pic
Thank you for responding SimGuruBChick. I (and everyone else I'm sure) appreciate you taking the time to let us know that you are reading this thread.
“I was so sure that I knew what they needed and what I wanted to sell them that I never stopped long enough to find out what it was they wanted to buy.”
― Chris Murray, The Extremely Successful Salesman's Club
I am glad to see SimGuruBChick make an appearance in this thread! Thank you!
I haven't actually played TS4 since right after the last patch. And all I did was go in an make a pool just to see how it worked. I am playing other games entirely, not even prior sims games. I do read the boards, but I have very little interest in TS4, I wish I could say I did. I truly had not considered that I would ever lose interest and I miss playing very much, but I've kind of given up hope for much with this iteration. For most of the last two months while I have been playing elsewhere, I have kept an eye out here. Maybe if I ever see anything that really wows me, I will play more. Hope is really waning though.
Two questions:
1. If management is going to say no to the things most people want in the game, why does it keep on sending the gurus for feedback? They already know what we want by now, don't they?
2. If management doesn't send the gurus for feedback but they're asking for themselves, what's the point if they know well that management has set its limits. Why ask the same question over and over again if they know by now what are things that'll never return, because managemente has told them so? Why create debate at the forums, why create the forums for that matter? As I see things, the 'feedback department' isn't working. At least not that I know.
I know those were more than 2 questions, lol, but they're all about the same. Why ask the customers what they want on a product, why all those surveys full of wonderful descriptions of possible amazing EPs if they know they can't give us what we really want. Example, the pools. They patched the pools in without the diving boards. Why? Was it so difficult to include one single object? And those pre-patch pictures in Twitter, they made the people think there were going to be diving boards. Again, why? Why put our hopes up with each hint if in the end diving boards weren't going to be. Another example: careers. They keep on saying there are two careers on the next patch. People is asking if that will be all, they don't give a proper answer. They either keep silence or say things like, 'those two are the ones we are working on". Why not say the truth, that it will be only two careers this time. No, they rather make the people believe there's more so they remain hooked. So it's either a lot of hype about nothing or a complete silence. Either way things are never ever clear.
You know, at this point I don't believe absolutely anything of what EA says, even worse I don't care anymore. I play Sims 4 as well as 2 and 3. I play 4 as it is, knowing that it won't be improved. Things will be added, shiny new objects and stuff that will probably add to the gameplay, but the things we are repeatedly asking, yelling for? I don't think so.
I may as well play Sims 5 IF it's ever released and if it is taken care of by people who love the sims as much as I do. And they will need to have a better and straightforward PR team. I'm sorry, but EA's silence isn't gonna sell EPs, if anything it will keep on making things unclear and dissappointing their customers. We want the truth and nothing but the truth.
Well the diving board object is not a feasible or useable item with out the animations required. What if they had placed a diving board in that pool that was just a single object and like decor had no real value because it had no animation. Every time the devs engage the programming engineers for a single object it cost the company money because it often pulls them off of a much longer and involved programming job to animate that object and add in the animation on all the sims that are expected to use that object. It is easy to ask for a simple design object - but one that requires animations for both the object and the characters that are to use them is a whole other subject. It is never as simple as it looks if the item you are wanting has animations and it is placed in the game with uses more than just viewing. Did you know that the diving board also requires work on all the spaces around this object and under this object in order for sims to just dive off the board or perhaps jump off the board into the air first or possibly a skilled diver may have even more animations off that board like the Sims did in Sims 2. your sims also must be able to swim under the board but not go through it or say climb out of the pool from under it in order for it have a realistic look to having it in your pool. Because of animations and expectations to do with a diving board object they are most usually added to the game with an ep where the animators and programmers are already animating and programming object like that already. Then there is not a disruption in the much larger project they are already working on. They become more acceptable cost wise to the people who hold the Maxis teams purse strings.
Well, being the diving board an object that has been present through the whole series (Sims 1, 2 and 3), you would think they know by heart how to get it to work and at what cost. They have done it three times already for 3 other sims games. In fact, the swimming pools alone should've been there from the start.
I agree with you to an extent. Game objects take time to be designed and animated, I don't need to be a programmer or a game expert to know, but my point wasn't the diving board. I'm not in a hurry to get one, I know it will be included sooner or later. I can wait. My point was, and still is: why have they been so unclear to their customers regarding The Sims 4 future content? I used diving boards as an example of how EA spokesmen (or women) made simmers speculate by the way they presented the pool picture. You can even check the pic again in Twitter -if it is still there that is. People theorized for days if the sim was jumping from a diving board or simply from the edge of the pool. It was obvious that was the latter. But the way the EA team showcased it wasn't clear. I don't know if this was on purpose or was just a poor advertising job. Again, why not be frank to their customers with something like: 'Sorry, no diving board included this time, but we're working on it'. I repeat myself, it's just words. Words won't bite them, much less if they are to tell the truth. That was really my point, but thank you for the explanation.
Edited 'cause of my bad English.
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"First they ignore you. Then they laugh at you. Then they fight you. Then you win". ~ Mahatma Gandhi.
Hello everyone. I just wanted to take this opportunity to let you know that we are watching this thread and taking your comments and feedback very seriously. The reason behind not commenting is that we have nothing to say yet. We are working on the game constantly. We are improving and enhancing content every day. And, we do take everyone's feedback into consideration.
This is the reality of game development. You can't make everything for everyone. What you can do is have a design vision and then make your decisions based on that vision. The vision for The Sims 4 was to refocus attention on the Sims. What makes them intriguing? How to make them feel more alive? How to bring the inner Sim to the surface? Not all the decisions the studio make will be popular with all the players. That's a universal truth.
And, as we have said all along is, this is just the beginning. A Sims game is a massive undertaking. The base game is the foundation for everything that follows. Look back at The Sims 3 or The Sims 2 when the base games first launched. Then look at them again after 5 years of added content. They are so different at the end of that journey from when they started.
Please, know this. The team working on The Sims cares deeply about the game they are making and the people who play it. We are not ignoring you.
Thank you for popping in and saying you are listening, it helps a little.
I understand the decisions you have to make but I know I'm not the only one who feels like you guys said stuff was missing-purely because your vision wasn't realised by release date and so we have an unfinished base game. Toddlers is hardly an obscure element to the sims-it's an integral life state given we've had it since 2. And why did they add it in 2? I think because they realised how weird and jarring it is to have a baby jump into a fully grown child. So for many of us it seems like 4 has taken a huge step backwards. It's not like we are asking for seasons, or university or pets. This is a whole life state of a sim! So for me I just don't see the focus on the sim part of what you said-a sim is a sim from cradle to grave, not from child to death (given babies count as objects!)
I could understand if you had said you were focusing on a young adult/adult sim and the dating scene, because that's sort of what it feels like so far from playing. But then I wish you had called it something else-calling it sims4 you expect, as a customer and a player, a certain level of content and quality from base. Sims4 is missing this base content. So as a customer I'm very disappointed that players like me can't play because instead of joy we have had from sims since sims1 there's a tang of disenchantment. That's heartbreaking to me. I couldn't have supported the sims series any more over the years and I feel let down.
Hello everyone. I just wanted to take this opportunity to let you know that we are watching this thread and taking your comments and feedback very seriously. The reason behind not commenting is that we have nothing to say yet. We are working on the game constantly. We are improving and enhancing content every day. And, we do take everyone's feedback into consideration.
This is the reality of game development. You can't make everything for everyone. What you can do is have a design vision and then make your decisions based on that vision. The vision for The Sims 4 was to refocus attention on the Sims. What makes them intriguing? How to make them feel more alive? How to bring the inner Sim to the surface? Not all the decisions the studio make will be popular with all the players. That's a universal truth.
And, as we have said all along is, this is just the beginning. A Sims game is a massive undertaking. The base game is the foundation for everything that follows. Look back at The Sims 3 or The Sims 2 when the base games first launched. Then look at them again after 5 years of added content. They are so different at the end of that journey from when they started.
Please, know this. The team working on The Sims cares deeply about the game they are making and the people who play it. We are not ignoring you.
I appreciate what you're saying and that you're trying to keep many of us from walking out on this series all together. However when some dev's can't even understand why we would be upset about the family play being stripped. It builds a gap between us. The further they build that gap the more we don't feel you listen. We were alienated as players from the choices you made. This goes beyond just not being able to please someone in the game. You're fanbase is a versatile one who thrive on core features of your game. If you remove those features than naturally sales will drop because you removed the features that players use of interest.
So to me if this is truly about bringing life back to the sim, why have dev's than stripped this simulation game of his family life? Why has the game stripped the ability to build character background of that sim in detail? The part to playing sims is to simulate that life for them. Life doesn't begin at adulthood it begins at birth. For years family players have waited, and waited for the guru's to understand why we play this game, making requests, and suggestions. For years the most improvement we got was a stroller and a rocking chair. To see what sims 4 has done to family play became a slap in the face for most of these players. You have literally been begging and pleading with you for decades to improve the simulation to family play. We honestly feel you heard us but you did not listen. Listening means that you heard and you acted upon it. Not you heard and than did nothing. That was where we feel you did not listen and sims 4 to us showed you no longer cared.
As far as it being a massive undertaking, whether you invest the time into the game and resources at the base game as a foundation or not, is not any of the players problem. It was not our fault you made these choices with sims 4. You are a business we are your customer if you no longer supply the product, we no longer supply our money. Not everyone like to be strung along for years. A base game is to build a foundation and expand upon the game. Not to build a foundation and then repair that foundation with expansions through out time. So no, not everyone likes this expensive journey you wish for us to travel. I rather not be strung along for 5 years only to find myself feeling resentful and disappointed at the end of it.
Hello everyone. I just wanted to take this opportunity to let you know that we are watching this thread and taking your comments and feedback very seriously. The reason behind not commenting is that we have nothing to say yet. We are working on the game constantly. We are improving and enhancing content every day. And, we do take everyone's feedback into consideration.
This is the reality of game development. You can't make everything for everyone. What you can do is have a design vision and then make your decisions based on that vision. The vision for The Sims 4 was to refocus attention on the Sims. What makes them intriguing? How to make them feel more alive? How to bring the inner Sim to the surface? Not all the decisions the studio make will be popular with all the players. That's a universal truth.
And, as we have said all along is, this is just the beginning. A Sims game is a massive undertaking. The base game is the foundation for everything that follows. Look back at The Sims 3 or The Sims 2 when the base games first launched. Then look at them again after 5 years of added content. They are so different at the end of that journey from when they started.
Please, know this. The team working on The Sims cares deeply about the game they are making and the people who play it. We are not ignoring you.
I appreciate what you're saying and that you're trying to keep many of us from walking out on this series all together. However when some dev's can't even understand why we would be upset about the family play being stripped. It builds a gap between us. The further they build that gap the more we don't feel you listen. We were alienated as players from the choices you made. This goes beyond just not being able to please someone in the game. You're fanbase is a versatile one who thrive on core features of your game. If you remove those features than naturally sales will drop because you removed the features that players use of interest.
So to me if this is truly about bringing life back to the sim, why have dev's than stripped this simulation game of his family life? Why has the game stripped the ability to build character background of that sim in detail? The part to playing sims is to simulate that life for them. Life doesn't begin at adulthood it begins at birth. For years family players have waited, and waited for the guru's to understand why we play this game, making requests, and suggestions. For years the most improvement we got was a stroller and a rocking chair. To see what sims 4 has done to family play became a slap in the face for most of these players. You have literally been begging and pleading with you for decades to improve the simulation to family play. We honestly feel you heard us but you did not listen. Listening means that you heard and you acted upon it. Not you heard and than did nothing. That was where we feel you did not listen and sims 4 to us showed you no longer cared.
As far as it being a massive undertaking, whether you invest the time into the game and resources at the base game as a foundation or not, is not any of the players problem. It was not our fault you made these choices with sims 4. You are a business we are your customer if you no longer supply the product, we no longer supply our money. Not everyone like to be strung along for years. A base game is to build a foundation and expand upon the game. Not to build a foundation and then repair that foundation with expansions through out time. So no, not everyone likes this expensive journey you wish for us to travel. I rather not be strung along for 5 years only to find myself feeling resentful and disappointed at the end of it.
Yes I agree @Anavastia. I'd be far less annoyed had the base game been intact-yes they may have focused of linear task orientated play too much for my liking and other things like no dishwashers and hardly any NPCs, but the thing that really gets to me is they gave us the excuse that 4 didn't have toddlers because they ran out of time and it was too hard. We are now three months in so we've patiently been waiting on you to finish the base. That might be an inconvenient truth but it's the truth none the less. Had they never intended to provide us with family play then say it-instead we were told we would see all previous game life states! Only to be told two months before release that 'things change'. We understand you guys had an unrealistic budget and time but as a customer I don't feel we should be penalised for decisions out of our control. We paid a premium price for this game-they didn't say at the time 'hey guys we aren't sure if you'll ever get the content you are crying out for so don't buy yet' they told us to trust them and buy into sims 4. That's why a lot of people feel let down-there was an expectation that if it was a time issue then it would be worked on. But the further from release we get and some of the responses from EA worry us because of the tone. Sometimes it's like we are asking too much and are made to feel like less of a valued customer as other groups.
I still live in hope but there is a point where not only do we lose out like we have already, we continue to watch by the sidelines while everyone else whose play styles were respected get to have a wonderful time with exciting new content that means little or nothing to us because the fundamentals just don't exist in 4 for us. That's bound to cause resentment and it's already happening-we have players in this thread who logged in, built a pool and then meh so logged out. I did that too. Because as awesome as pools are the entire game feels hollow and shallow if you play as I do.
tbh, If they haven't mentioned anything, they probably don't think it's important. But remember that people was going crazy about no pools then they made a patch. Maybe they will have something better in the future. We have to give them time. They understand we want things but they can't just make this stuff easily. I honestly don't really pay attention to family tree but i do want toddlers!
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You can see relationships with family members, but only from the family member's view; if you click on the relationship panel the baby shows up with the relationship level. One thing that's weird though is if your Sim has a baby with an inactive Sim that baby will still show up in your relationship panel even if you've never met the kid -- found that out with my baby daddy Sim (which means I've at least been able to keep casual track of his brood; guess it fills in for the family tree a bit).
I can live with the bassinet babies if we get real toddlers, ones that are more like Sims 2 where they could get into mischief like playing in the toilet or making messes, the ability to bathe them in the bathtub (and maybe they splash around and make a huge puddle to be cleaned up). I want them to have a starting trait but no aspiration. Or maybe just a "Grow Up" aspiration, with three goals: walking, talking and potty training, and objects that would help them get a head start on the child skills.
Fun must be always -- Tomas Hertl (San Jose Sharks hockey player)
See how clear you were when explaining this? Well, that's what we need them to do!
Imagine one of the gurus saying: "Well guys, we got two careers ready to go. But we don't know at this moment how many more we'll be able to finish before the deadline." -- or something along those lines, I don't know what the exact wording would be.
The point is we need them to talk to us, explain to us. It's only words, they won't bite them!
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"First they ignore you. Then they laugh at you. Then they fight you. Then you win". ~ Mahatma Gandhi.
What I'd like to see is toddlers (and family trees) patched in for free, with basic interactions, clothing and objects...then a family EP that would expand toddler play and also add more options for other age groups. That would be the fairest way to handle it, and reassure the community that the toddler delay wasn't just a money grab but really was a lack of time to implement them properly. I'd rather wait a little longer for fully developed toddlers than just get something that's mish-mashed together in order to shut people up.
I'm still meh on an OFB pack, but if it brings more crafting options so my slacker Sim baby daddy can make money since he can't hold a regular job for long (as long as you can sell the crafted items without having to own/manage a store) as well as open restaurants so my Sims have a proper date destination, I'll be okay with it and hope that toddlers and more family play options are on the horizon. (Oh, and kids better be able to go out to eat with their parents/other adults -- biggest disappointment of the Sims 3 Bistro set is that kids couldn't eat out.)
Fun must be always -- Tomas Hertl (San Jose Sharks hockey player)
Yep, I agree. The whole 'gag order' for future content is odd, but were they burned in the past by mentioning something that was supposedly coming but was never delivered? And fans went rabid? (Aside from the release os TS4, that is.)
Oh joy, a "you people" comment.
Sims should be all about options -- you can add family play to the game but players aren't forced into it. You can Woohoo without consequence, just don't do the "Try for Baby" bit, or if you're like my slacker Sim, you Try for Baby with every female in town and they get stuck with the diapers and feedings.
The point is, when Sims 4 was first announced, they said that all age groups would be in the game...but then, "things change" and toddlers were left out. If OFB is indeed the first EP, I'll just have to figure that work on that started long before the toddler issue became a thing, and that we'll get toddlers in a future EP or better yet a patch the way they patched in ghosts and pools.
Fun must be always -- Tomas Hertl (San Jose Sharks hockey player)
But Most of the Gurus aren't paid to be Customer Support, is it isn't their job; most of them are paid to be Designers or Programmers for the various teams involved with creating & updating a TheSims Game.
Can I tell you just how much I love this?
Fun must be always -- Tomas Hertl (San Jose Sharks hockey player)
Well when you said 'an entire section' I thought that you meant 'an entire section'
My mistake.
It's been addressed on at least 2 different site:
-on Twitter a few times, but haven't checked in a few months so I'm not sure if they're still doing it
-in at least a dozen different threads on this very site, including most of the Ask a Guru Threads that they've had going over the last few months (although I think they said they're going to stop answering repeat questions on there, so you'd have to look to find it)
I understand what you're saying, but the Guru's are the ones' interfacing with the public. Like it or not our perception of the company is based on how they interact with us. I also had a lot of other responsibilities that weren't technically customer service but I was told to do them and was expected to do them well.
― Chris Murray, The Extremely Successful Salesman's Club
I'd like to see what they announce regarding future patches -- so far we've had a patch each month that's added something that either should have been in the base game or that improves base game play: October we got ghosts, November we got pools, December we're getting a couple of returning careers, and possibly the Mac version. I'm getting more convinced that if we're getting toddlers back it'll have to be in a free patch, one so that they can include toddlers in future EPs (especially a Generations-style pack), and two to keep the pitchforks and torches away from EA HQ in Redwood Shores.
Fun must be always -- Tomas Hertl (San Jose Sharks hockey player)
I realize this...that's why I said that it IS necessary and SHOULD be included (and probably will), so be patient!...people take this stuff WAY too seriously...like the delay in progress is a blatant and personal attack on "them"...lol, that's just not the case
Well the diving board object is not a feasible or useable item with out the animations required. What if they had placed a diving board in that pool that was just a single object and like decor had no real value because it had no animation. Every time the devs engage the programming engineers for a single object it cost the company money because it often pulls them off of a much longer and involved programming job to animate that object and add in the animation on all the sims that are expected to use that object. It is easy to ask for a simple design object - but one that requires animations for both the object and the characters that are to use them is a whole other subject. It is never as simple as it looks if the item you are wanting has animations and it is placed in the game with uses more than just viewing. Did you know that the diving board also requires work on all the spaces around this object and under this object in order for sims to just dive off the board or perhaps jump off the board into the air first or possibly a skilled diver may have even more animations off that board like the Sims did in Sims 2. your sims also must be able to swim under the board but not go through it or say climb out of the pool from under it in order for it have a realistic look to having it in your pool. Because of animations and expectations to do with a diving board object they are most usually added to the game with an ep where the animators and programmers are already animating and programming object like that already. Then there is not a disruption in the much larger project they are already working on. They become more acceptable cost wise to the people who hold the Maxis teams purse strings.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
In dreams - I LIVE!
In REALITY, I simply exist.....
(Sorry for spamming but I'm seeing so many awesome comments that I want to respond to!)
I'm enjoying the Sims 4 -- but it doesn't mean it doesn't need improvement. And while I'm doing okay without toddlers, I know that I'd have an even richer experience with toddlers. I have a Sim who is in the Culinary career (at least till she gets to level 5 for the Master Chef aspiration) but my ultimate goal is for her to be a stay-at-home mom, maybe doing some writing to make extra money but her husband will be the primary breadwinner (he's currently in Tech Guru but I may switch him to Business when we get the new career patch). It'll still be fun, but having toddlers would make it more so.
Fun must be always -- Tomas Hertl (San Jose Sharks hockey player)
Then I fired up the Sims 3 again. I can play it rotationally with the help of mods and in fact, I believe I can turn aging on/off per household. Everything I want in Sims 4, I have in Sims 3. And I'm finding emotions are there as well -- dreams pop up often depending on what is happening with the sim (heh, like the male sim I had at a celebrity party where he jumped into the hot tub where there were three naked female celebrities -- and the wish to woohoo in the hot tub popped up immediately).
While in Sims 3, I have to use mods to get my Sims to look the way I want and to eliminate many bugs, at least those mods exist. Maybe in a month or so, when I see what the December patch brings, I'll give it another look. But I'm sure not going to throw my money at Sims 4 the way I did Sims 3. I can wait for sales.
I am, in Sims 3, playing logged in, hoping they're still tracking telemetry.
The one thing that encourages me is that this thread hasn't been moved to the Ideas and Feedback graveyard...yet.
Fun must be always -- Tomas Hertl (San Jose Sharks hockey player)
I understand and respect your opinion. I'm going to "like" your post even though "like" doesn't really apply. They need an "I feel ya" button.
― Chris Murray, The Extremely Successful Salesman's Club
I love to control all my sims seamlessly as well as play with whole families - but unlike many was able to adapt and even find a way to enjoy Sims 3. On the same note i was very aware the Sims in sims 3 were very robotic and was not full of personality like Sims 2 were. Appearance wise well Sims 2 nor Sims 3 would win any award in my veiw - at least not easily, but I did managed to always be able to make my sims good enough i was satisfied with them. I have to admit Sims 4 sims are the easiest to get lovely sims, just as Sims 4 build mode is much easier to make some of the best houses I have ever made so fast. I am not a creator, nor did I ever have the patience to sit there tweaking a house to perfection like the actual simmer creators I know and adore can do. I do not fool myself - I know I am not a creator - but i have to say i am quite pleased with what comes very easily in build mode for Sims 4. Of course I understand how the Sims 4 world map style makes it hard for creators to create with limits. But you mention Sims 1 - which I agree it does seem to be a much more advanced Sims 1 map - but if you think of the Sims 1 map - when it started out it had 10 house lots and nothing else. By the time the game was completed the map had endless places to go and fun things to do and there was never an ep added world that you could not access from the one map. Never mind the fact they released the code for simmers to add their own additional streets and lot areas.
Overall that was really the ideal system if you ask me - especially if compared to Sims 3 where going to another world even from an ep meant starting over or at least using a mod - but they would never be a part of the same world you were playing. So eventually there will be lots more room for creators to create. That is just a matter of waiting it out - unlike us that are missing an entire life stage and have nothing to back up the idea they will actually be added to this game. So eventually you will have the room to further create - i t's a given seeing all ep world always has some open lots. I just wish for the sake of those players who waited to come back to Sims 4 and cannot adapt and enjoy a different play style - that they did not finally come back in vain.
I know myself even though i was able to adapt and had a ton of fun with Sims 3 - even I will find not having the toddlers a bit tough to swollow.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
In dreams - I LIVE!
In REALITY, I simply exist.....
This is the reality of game development. You can't make everything for everyone. What you can do is have a design vision and then make your decisions based on that vision. The vision for The Sims 4 was to refocus attention on the Sims. What makes them intriguing? How to make them feel more alive? How to bring the inner Sim to the surface? Not all the decisions the studio make will be popular with all the players. That's a universal truth.
And, as we have said all along is, this is just the beginning. A Sims game is a massive undertaking. The base game is the foundation for everything that follows. Look back at The Sims 3 or The Sims 2 when the base games first launched. Then look at them again after 5 years of added content. They are so different at the end of that journey from when they started.
Please, know this. The team working on The Sims cares deeply about the game they are making and the people who play it. We are not ignoring you.
Infinite Diversity, Infinite Combinations
Thanks to 06bon06 for my lovely new signature pic
― Chris Murray, The Extremely Successful Salesman's Club
I haven't actually played TS4 since right after the last patch. And all I did was go in an make a pool just to see how it worked. I am playing other games entirely, not even prior sims games. I do read the boards, but I have very little interest in TS4, I wish I could say I did. I truly had not considered that I would ever lose interest and I miss playing very much, but I've kind of given up hope for much with this iteration. For most of the last two months while I have been playing elsewhere, I have kept an eye out here. Maybe if I ever see anything that really wows me, I will play more. Hope is really waning though.
Mylita
Well, being the diving board an object that has been present through the whole series (Sims 1, 2 and 3), you would think they know by heart how to get it to work and at what cost. They have done it three times already for 3 other sims games. In fact, the swimming pools alone should've been there from the start.
I agree with you to an extent. Game objects take time to be designed and animated, I don't need to be a programmer or a game expert to know, but my point wasn't the diving board. I'm not in a hurry to get one, I know it will be included sooner or later. I can wait. My point was, and still is: why have they been so unclear to their customers regarding The Sims 4 future content? I used diving boards as an example of how EA spokesmen (or women) made simmers speculate by the way they presented the pool picture. You can even check the pic again in Twitter -if it is still there that is. People theorized for days if the sim was jumping from a diving board or simply from the edge of the pool. It was obvious that was the latter. But the way the EA team showcased it wasn't clear. I don't know if this was on purpose or was just a poor advertising job. Again, why not be frank to their customers with something like: 'Sorry, no diving board included this time, but we're working on it'. I repeat myself, it's just words. Words won't bite them, much less if they are to tell the truth. That was really my point, but thank you for the explanation.
Edited 'cause of my bad English.
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"First they ignore you. Then they laugh at you. Then they fight you. Then you win". ~ Mahatma Gandhi.
Thank you for popping in and saying you are listening, it helps a little.
I understand the decisions you have to make but I know I'm not the only one who feels like you guys said stuff was missing-purely because your vision wasn't realised by release date and so we have an unfinished base game. Toddlers is hardly an obscure element to the sims-it's an integral life state given we've had it since 2. And why did they add it in 2? I think because they realised how weird and jarring it is to have a baby jump into a fully grown child. So for many of us it seems like 4 has taken a huge step backwards. It's not like we are asking for seasons, or university or pets. This is a whole life state of a sim! So for me I just don't see the focus on the sim part of what you said-a sim is a sim from cradle to grave, not from child to death (given babies count as objects!)
I could understand if you had said you were focusing on a young adult/adult sim and the dating scene, because that's sort of what it feels like so far from playing. But then I wish you had called it something else-calling it sims4 you expect, as a customer and a player, a certain level of content and quality from base. Sims4 is missing this base content. So as a customer I'm very disappointed that players like me can't play because instead of joy we have had from sims since sims1 there's a tang of disenchantment. That's heartbreaking to me. I couldn't have supported the sims series any more over the years and I feel let down.
https://twitter.com/sparkfairy1
I appreciate what you're saying and that you're trying to keep many of us from walking out on this series all together. However when some dev's can't even understand why we would be upset about the family play being stripped. It builds a gap between us. The further they build that gap the more we don't feel you listen. We were alienated as players from the choices you made. This goes beyond just not being able to please someone in the game. You're fanbase is a versatile one who thrive on core features of your game. If you remove those features than naturally sales will drop because you removed the features that players use of interest.
So to me if this is truly about bringing life back to the sim, why have dev's than stripped this simulation game of his family life? Why has the game stripped the ability to build character background of that sim in detail? The part to playing sims is to simulate that life for them. Life doesn't begin at adulthood it begins at birth. For years family players have waited, and waited for the guru's to understand why we play this game, making requests, and suggestions. For years the most improvement we got was a stroller and a rocking chair. To see what sims 4 has done to family play became a slap in the face for most of these players. You have literally been begging and pleading with you for decades to improve the simulation to family play. We honestly feel you heard us but you did not listen. Listening means that you heard and you acted upon it. Not you heard and than did nothing. That was where we feel you did not listen and sims 4 to us showed you no longer cared.
As far as it being a massive undertaking, whether you invest the time into the game and resources at the base game as a foundation or not, is not any of the players problem. It was not our fault you made these choices with sims 4. You are a business we are your customer if you no longer supply the product, we no longer supply our money. Not everyone like to be strung along for years. A base game is to build a foundation and expand upon the game. Not to build a foundation and then repair that foundation with expansions through out time. So no, not everyone likes this expensive journey you wish for us to travel. I rather not be strung along for 5 years only to find myself feeling resentful and disappointed at the end of it.
Yes I agree @Anavastia. I'd be far less annoyed had the base game been intact-yes they may have focused of linear task orientated play too much for my liking and other things like no dishwashers and hardly any NPCs, but the thing that really gets to me is they gave us the excuse that 4 didn't have toddlers because they ran out of time and it was too hard. We are now three months in so we've patiently been waiting on you to finish the base. That might be an inconvenient truth but it's the truth none the less. Had they never intended to provide us with family play then say it-instead we were told we would see all previous game life states! Only to be told two months before release that 'things change'. We understand you guys had an unrealistic budget and time but as a customer I don't feel we should be penalised for decisions out of our control. We paid a premium price for this game-they didn't say at the time 'hey guys we aren't sure if you'll ever get the content you are crying out for so don't buy yet' they told us to trust them and buy into sims 4. That's why a lot of people feel let down-there was an expectation that if it was a time issue then it would be worked on. But the further from release we get and some of the responses from EA worry us because of the tone. Sometimes it's like we are asking too much and are made to feel like less of a valued customer as other groups.
I still live in hope but there is a point where not only do we lose out like we have already, we continue to watch by the sidelines while everyone else whose play styles were respected get to have a wonderful time with exciting new content that means little or nothing to us because the fundamentals just don't exist in 4 for us. That's bound to cause resentment and it's already happening-we have players in this thread who logged in, built a pool and then meh so logged out. I did that too. Because as awesome as pools are the entire game feels hollow and shallow if you play as I do.
https://twitter.com/sparkfairy1
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