Who's gonna buy any more Sims 4 packs if there's a whole new game coming out in 18 months? I know I wouldn't.
They haven't even released Seasons yet.
I think there are three things to be discussed - Sims Mobile release, and whatever game pack is out this quarter, while also fielding questions about this year's EP.
You see, while some people clamour for Sims 5, EA knows that it can appeal to many more new customers than Sims 5 would get for their money, by employing porting teams. You see, the younger audience IS on the phone apps.
There's a good reason the Devs would want Sims 4 to last. You see, Triple-A Devs are in a pretty lousy position when it comes to job stability. As soon as a game is complete, their jobs are pretty much over. Bye-bye, don't let the door hit your plum on the way out. A sequel with an identical engine is their only chance, and not much of a chance at that. When Sims 4 was made, a whole new team was brought in for a whole new engine, and then the Sims 3 staff got laid off.
No way is it just EA who treats devs that way. So Devs are not going to turn to their employers and say "We're out of ideas, I guess you've got to pay us to make Sims 5 now" cuz for sure they won't be on the team making it. And I'm not knocking at the Devs for it either. That's what happens when you don't have a union.
Prepping a list of mods to add after Infants are placed into the game. Because real life isn't 'nice'.
Who's gonna buy any more Sims 4 packs if there's a whole new game coming out in 18 months? I know I wouldn't.
Why not?
If TS5 is released in about 18 months then it at that time will have only the basegame. Would you really stop playing TS4 for a coulple of years and just wait to only play with the basegame for TS5?
They haven't even released Seasons yet.
Correct. But if they release Seasons later this year and then TS5 a year after that then you will have a whole year to play with Seasons. Won’t that be enough?
I think there are three things to be discussed - Sims Mobile release, and whatever game pack is out this quarter, while also fielding questions about this year's EP.
You see, while some people clamour for Sims 5, EA knows that it can appeal to many more new customers than Sims 5 would get for their money, by employing porting teams. You see, the younger audience IS on the phone apps.
Yes. Therefore EA has released the Sims Mobile. But something points in the direction that EA doesn’t even know for how long that game will be interesting to play because EA has strongly pointed out that EA has reserved the right to close the game’s server down with only one month notice before it is actually done.
There's a good reason the Devs would want Sims 4 to last. You see, Triple-A Devs are in a pretty lousy position when it comes to job stability. As soon as a game is complete, their jobs are pretty much over. Bye-bye, don't let the door hit your plum on the way out. A sequel with an identical engine is their only chance, and not much of a chance at that. When Sims 4 was made, a whole new team was brought in for a whole new engine, and then the Sims 3 staff got laid off.
Not really. Only the studio in Salt Lake was told to make other games until EA was sure that the studio wouldn’t be needed for TS4 too. But when it became clear that this wasn’t the case because the cheap-to-make SPs and GPs sold very well EA then decided to finally close Salt Lake down less than a year ago.
No way is it just EA who treats devs that way. So Devs are not going to turn to their employers and say "We're out of ideas, I guess you've got to pay us to make Sims 5 now" cuz for sure they won't be on the team making it. And I'm not knocking at the Devs for it either. That's what happens when you don't have a union.
You should just study a little how EA’s top usually treat EA’s employees
EA has bought a lot of other companies just to get the rights to use their most profitable game series. But EA has also closed most of their studios down after a few years when EA didn’t need those studios anymore and without caring about their employees at all. EA’s employees get nice surroundings to work in and discounts when they buy EA’s games. But then they also have to accept a lot of overtime and they have no job security at all. You can read much more about this if you search for “EA employees” in Google because both current and earlier EA employees have told about it many times.
So no. EA’s top won’t at all consider the devs when they decide the future for the Sims games - but only how they can maximize the profit from those games.
@Erpe It’s really literally been said, that the life span of Sims 4 will be different (longer) than for its predecessors. I believe it was GuruDrake who said it, on these forums. It isn’t speculation, it’s based on a statement (it left me quite hopeless I must confess, because it even sounded like they were aiming for a ten year anniversary).
The only thing I have seen is a statement where they said (and I believe that it was Graham who said it) that we shouldn’t expect the same schedule for the packs as we have been used to. I understood that statement as we shouldn’t expect 2 EPs a year anymore but instead a GP and some SPs. They later then began to make two GPs each year instead of only one and I thought that the reason was that EA’s top had been very satisfied with the sales numbers for the first GPs and therefore had told the developers to increase the number of GPs. I also saw signs that EA’s top weren’t very satisfied with the sales numbers for EPs and therefore feared that they would tell the developers not to make any more EPs at all. But instead it seems that EA’s top decided to still make about one EP each year but only reduced the budget for that EP such that EPs now have less content than the EPs for TS2 and TS3 used to have. This make me still fear that EA’s top will decide not to make EPs at all for TS5 though.
I have been surprised that so many in the forum instead understood their statement about the changed schedule for packs as they would release packs for TS4 in several more years and it for me looked like many in the forum understood it that way just because they thought that EPs now must have become more difficult to make such that it would take more years to make all the usual EPs for TS4 too. But I just never have believed at all that EA’s top reduced the number of EPs for such a reason and I am sure that EPs for TS4 instead have been even easier and cheaper for EA to make because of their reduced content. So I am sure that the problem instead has been that EA can make 2 GPs for the same money as EA earlier used to make an EP. But 2 GPs likely give EA bigger income from their sales than just one EP does. Therefore I also don’t at all believe that EA again will increase the number of yearly EPs.
@ebuchala I don’t think that EA just stops making EPs when they aren’t profitable anymore because EA has never done that. Instead EA has always stopped already after 5 years even though EA easily could have sold many more EPs. Also EA could have made more EPs for the previous basegame even after EA had released the next basegame. But EA hasn’t done that either. So if we want to understand how EA plans things then we have to ask why not?
So I have conseidered this and I think that EA looks at things much more broadly instead of just considering possible profit for each pack. The problem for EA here must be that EA knows that if they release too many packs within too short time then many simmers will just stop buying everything and the packs will just steal customers from eachother. Therefore EA has decided not to release packs for more than a certain amount of money each year. But EA likely just add the prices for all packs and doesn’t count just EPs like so many in the forum seem to do.
So again I think that EA’s decision about when to release the next basegame is based just on the same considerations as earlier and the problem here mainly is that after 5 years it has become difficult for EA to attract new customers to the current game. Therefore EA has always planned to release a new basegame after almost exactly 5 years and I just don’t see why EA should have made different considerations now. Of course it is possible (at least theoretically) that EA considered to not release TS5 at all or not in the next many years or that EA has postponed the release of TS5 because the development of TS5 has given EA unexpected problems. I just don’t find that very likely.
Ah, @JoAnne65 I seem to recall the same thing from Drake but didn't remember well enough so didn't mention it. I really have had the impression from the start they're trying to extend this version as long as possible.
I believe profitability is a major, if not the major defining factor in deciding when to stop producing something for any company. But I would also assume that functionality fits into that--meaning by the time we had all EPs and SPs for TS3 released, Maxis was stating in the launch box that we shouldn't have all of them installed or we could expect a degradation in performance. I'm fairly sure the engine design for this base game as well as the way the packs are being produced and released is a very large tell regarding their life expectancy for TS4. Between both profitability and performance with the addition of each new pack, I'm sure you would find the equation for when that decision is made. And, really, based on what's been stated, this entire version run is supposed to be different than previous ones so I'm not sure why you're clinging to the idea that they're going to handle it the same as past versions. Plus, it all boils down to the fact that we simply don't know what all they use to determine when it's time to make that move so it's all just grand speculation anyway.
Your statement about EA not wanting to release too many packs in too short of a time seems to speak more to my point, as well. It shows that they're trying to extend the lifetime of the game, in my opinion. I actually did a quick tally in another thread about prices for TS4 to show how profitable this game is in it's current iteration versus starting a whole new version. They currently have a functioning (for the most part) engine in place with a base game that's past it's initial premium cost and is now sold at a heavily discounted price but, still sold. At this point, you estimate (US currency) $40 per EP each year (anywhere from 1/2 to 2/3 of a full AAA title), 2-$20 GPs each year, and at least 3-4 $10 SPs each year. For a single game with a lot less work than it costs to produce a whole new AAA title, they're making between $40 and $110, easily per Simmer almost guaranteed (not to even mention new customers or old customers who come back and buy later like what happened when Toddlers were released). Compared to an unguaranteed $80 per person for a new game that might flop. At some point the new game makes sense but don't fool yourself into thinking it doesn't all boil down to money/profit in the end.
Origin ID: ebuchala I'm not a psychopath. I'm a high-functioning psychopath. Reaper
@Erpe It’s really literally been said, that the life span of Sims 4 will be different (longer) than for its predecessors. I believe it was GuruDrake who said it, on these forums. It isn’t speculation, it’s based on a statement (it left me quite hopeless I must confess, because it even sounded like they were aiming for a ten year anniversary).
The only thing I have seen is a statement where they said (and I believe that it was Graham who said it) that we shouldn’t expect the same schedule for the packs as we have been used to. I understood that statement as we shouldn’t expect 2 EPs a year anymore but instead a GP and some SPs. They later then began to make two GPs each year instead of only one and I thought that the reason was that EA’s top had been very satisfied with the sales numbers for the first GPs and therefore had told the developers to increase the number of GPs. I also saw signs that EA’s top weren’t very satisfied with the sales numbers for EPs and therefore feared that they would tell the developers not to make any more EPs at all. But instead it seems that EA’s top decided to still make about one EP each year but only reduced the budget for that EP such that EPs now have less content than the EPs for TS2 and TS3 used to have. This make me still fear that EA’s top will decide not to make EPs at all for TS5 though.
I have been surprised that so many in the forum instead understood their statement about the changed schedule for packs as they would release packs for TS4 in several more years and it for me looked like many in the forum understood it that way just because they thought that EPs now must have become more difficult to make such that it would take more years to make all the usual EPs for TS4 too. But I just never have believed at all that EA’s top reduced the number of EPs for such a reason and I am sure that EPs for TS4 instead have been even easier and cheaper for EA to make because of their reduced content. So I am sure that the problem instead has been that EA can make 2 GPs for the same money as EA earlier used to make an EP. But 2 GPs likely give EA bigger income from their sales than just one EP does. Therefore I also don’t at all believe that EA again will increase the number of yearly EPs.
@ebuchala I don’t think that EA just stops making EPs when they aren’t profitable anymore because EA has never done that. Instead EA has always stopped already after 5 years even though EA easily could have sold many more EPs. Also EA could have made more EPs for the previous basegame even after EA had released the next basegame. But EA hasn’t done that either. So if we want to understand how EA plans things then we have to ask why not?
So I have conseidered this and I think that EA looks at things much more broadly instead of just considering possible profit for each pack. The problem for EA here must be that EA knows that if they release too many packs within too short time then many simmers will just stop buying everything and the packs will just steal customers from eachother. Therefore EA has decided not to release packs for more than a certain amount of money each year. But EA likely just add the prices for all packs and doesn’t count just EPs like so many in the forum seem to do.
So again I think that EA’s decision about when to release the next basegame is based just on the same considerations as earlier and the problem here mainly is that after 5 years it has become difficult for EA to attract new customers to the current game. Therefore EA has always planned to release a new basegame after almost exactly 5 years and I just don’t see why EA should have made different considerations now. Of course it is possible (at least theoretically) that EA considered to not release TS5 at all or not in the next many years or that EA has postponed the release of TS5 because the development of TS5 has given EA unexpected problems. I just don’t find that very likely.
Ah, @JoAnne65 I seem to recall the same thing from Drake but didn't remember well enough so didn't mention it. I really have had the impression from the start they're trying to extend this version as long as possible.
I believe profitability is a major, if not the major defining factor in deciding when to stop producing something for any company. But I would also assume that functionality fits into that--meaning by the time we had all EPs and SPs for TS3 released, Maxis was stating in the launch box that we shouldn't have all of them installed or we could expect a degradation in performance. I'm fairly sure the engine design for this base game as well as the way the packs are being produced and released is a very large tell regarding their life expectancy for TS4. Between both profitability and performance with the addition of each new pack, I'm sure you would find the equation for when that decision is made. And, really, based on what's been stated, this entire version run is supposed to be different than previous ones so I'm not sure why you're clinging to the idea that they're going to handle it the same as past versions. Plus, it all boils down to the fact that we simply don't know what all they use to determine when it's time to make that move so it's all just grand speculation anyway.
But you ignore the fact that a new basegame with a completely new game engine always has taken them at least about 4 years to finish. So EA’s top has taken that decision back in most likely 2015 after seeing that the sales numbers also for TS4 were high enough to start making TS5.
Your statement about EA not wanting to release too many packs in too short of a time seems to speak more to my point, as well. It shows that they're trying to extend the lifetime of the game, in my opinion. I actually did a quick tally in another thread about prices for TS4 to show how profitable this game is in it's current iteration versus starting a whole new version. They currently have a functioning (for the most part) engine in place with a base game that's past it's initial premium cost and is now sold at a heavily discounted price but, still sold. At this point, you estimate (US currency) $40 per EP each year (anywhere from 1/2 to 2/3 of a full AAA title), 2-$20 GPs each year, and at least 3-4 $10 SPs each year. For a single game with a lot less work than it costs to produce a whole new AAA title, they're making between $40 and $110, easily per Simmer almost guaranteed (not to even mention new customers or old customers who come back and buy later like what happened when Toddlers were released). Compared to an unguaranteed $80 per person for a new game that might flop. At some point the new game makes sense but don't fool yourself into thinking it doesn't all boil down to money/profit in the end.
Just compare the price for buying all the packs for TS4 in a year with the price for buying all the packs in a year for TS2 or TS3 and you will see that buying all the packs is still the same each year. So EA hasn’t changed anything in that area. The change only is that EA now releases more but smaller packs compared with the earlier games. Therefore I still think it most likely that EA will announce TS5 this summer and to be released in the second half of 2019.
EA has made several experiments though. For TS3 EA experimented with objects in the Sims 3 store and in both 2012 and 2013 by releasing even 3 EPs each year. But it now seems clear that EA has decided that stuff is best sold in SPs. Also it seems that EA then decided that 3 EPs were way too many and that it would be much better to only release 1 EP each year but then compensate by releasing 2 or 3 half sized EPs too (and to call them something else like gamepacks instead).
That EA then also decided to make the EPs smaller (and most likely by reducing their budgets) just shows that EA now thinks that EPs are much less important than SPs and GPs are. So I even think that EA is considering to stop making EPs completely. But why should EA then decide that TS4 need 20 more SPs and a few more GPs just to give new simmers more to choose from before EA releases a Sims 5 game which most likely has been under development since about 2015?
I'm a little confused with the whole TS5 idea. Didn't Graham said that now when the big Pets expansion pack is done, they can work on new exciting packs, or something like that? I don't now, I got impression that there's a lot to do with TS4 (and I think so myself), but everybody suddenly talks about TS5... Anyway, it'd be rather odd if they annouce now the game to come in few years, the Sims Mobile is not interesting to me at all, so I hope it's about a new expansion.
I wouldn't worry about it being TS5 yet. I think some people who really dislike this version have their wishful-thinking caps on, is all. Maxis has been pretty clear that they're following a different release schedule/pattern for dlc with TS4 and, even more recently, that they'll be offering plenty more content for this game. I really do think they plan on continuing with this version for awhile yet to come.
There is no doubt that TS4 will get another EP, a GP and at least 4 more SPs which is quite a lot. But this doesn’t prevent EA from announcing TS5 in a couple of months and then release it about 15 months later in the second half of 2019. So I think that the wishful thinking is mostly done by the dreamers who want TS4 to continue to 2022 or even later
Graham said the they follow a different schedule with the packs for TS4. But we already know that because we have seen that at least half of the usual EPs now are replaced by both the new GPs and by many more SPs. Again the wishful dreamers instead overinterpretate the statement to mean a guarantee that TS4 will continue forever until TS4 even has more EPs than TS3 got
But, this is the speculation section so, like everyone else, I'm just speculating. Either way, I'm interested to see what they're planning next for the Sims.
I have followed this debate closely and I am not especially interested in TS5 even though I don’t play TS4 anymore. The reason is that I don’t think that the release of TS5 will stop the changed schedule with many smaller packs instead of a lot of big EPs. Actually I fear that TS5 won’t get even a single EP but only GPs and even more SPs than TS4 got.
It's not wishful thinking. It was already stated they will keep making packs for sims 4 until it no longer makes sense. What that means exactly is speculation, but I believe it means either until the game gets too clogged up, it stops making money, or they have a new idea they can only add with a new sims because the engine limits them.
Even Grant on the First page says Sims 4 isn't going anywhere anytime soon.
The Graham quote you are mentioning and this quote are TWO different quotes. Nobody is confusing them for each other.
I'm a little confused with the whole TS5 idea. Didn't Graham said that now when the big Pets expansion pack is done, they can work on new exciting packs, or something like that? I don't now, I got impression that there's a lot to do with TS4 (and I think so myself), but everybody suddenly talks about TS5... Anyway, it'd be rather odd if they annouce now the game to come in few years, the Sims Mobile is not interesting to me at all, so I hope it's about a new expansion.
I wouldn't worry about it being TS5 yet. I think some people who really dislike this version have their wishful-thinking caps on, is all. Maxis has been pretty clear that they're following a different release schedule/pattern for dlc with TS4 and, even more recently, that they'll be offering plenty more content for this game. I really do think they plan on continuing with this version for awhile yet to come.
There is no doubt that TS4 will get another EP, a GP and at least 4 more SPs which is quite a lot. But this doesn’t prevent EA from announcing TS5 in a couple of months and then release it about 15 months later in the second half of 2019. So I think that the wishful thinking is mostly done by the dreamers who want TS4 to continue to 2022 or even later
Graham said the they follow a different schedule with the packs for TS4. But we already know that because we have seen that at least half of the usual EPs now are replaced by both the new GPs and by many more SPs. Again the wishful dreamers instead overinterpretate the statement to mean a guarantee that TS4 will continue forever until TS4 even has more EPs than TS3 got
But, this is the speculation section so, like everyone else, I'm just speculating. Either way, I'm interested to see what they're planning next for the Sims.
I have followed this debate closely and I am not especially interested in TS5 even though I don’t play TS4 anymore. The reason is that I don’t think that the release of TS5 will stop the changed schedule with many smaller packs instead of a lot of big EPs. Actually I fear that TS5 won’t get even a single EP but only GPs and even more SPs than TS4 got.
It's not wishful thinking. It was already stated they will keep making packs for sims 4 until it no longer makes sense. What that means exactly is speculation, but I believe it means either until the game gets too clogged up, it stops making money, or they have a new idea they can only add with a new sims because the engine limits them.
I actually think that I read that statement a long time ago. But I only read it as one of those meaningless statements that people often say when they don’t have a real answer. Also I didn’t put more meaning into it because I know that it isn’t the devs but instead EA’s top who make such decisions and it is unlikely that EA’s top already had made a more accurate statement to the devs at the time. So “until it no longer makes sense” likely just meant “until EA has told us to release TS5 instead” or “until TS5 is so close to be released that more packs for TS4 won’t make sense anymore”
Even Grant on the First page says Sims 4 isn't going anywhere anytime soon.
Wasn’t that a long time ago? But anyway: That is obviously true because they still will release packs for TS4 at least a year more. Most likely until late in the spring of 2019. And besides even TS3 hasn’t gone anywhere yet and its packs are still sold by EA for high prices
The Graham quote you are mentioning and this quote are TWO different quotes. Nobody is confusing them for each other.
Maybe not. But I think that many simmers overinterpretate those statements because they forget that the developers only are making the games. They aren’t the top managers in EA who decide which games to make and when they are released. So statements from the devs about such thing are usually vague and based on their own private guesses which they avoid to state too explicitly though.
I'm a little confused with the whole TS5 idea. Didn't Graham said that now when the big Pets expansion pack is done, they can work on new exciting packs, or something like that? I don't now, I got impression that there's a lot to do with TS4 (and I think so myself), but everybody suddenly talks about TS5... Anyway, it'd be rather odd if they annouce now the game to come in few years, the Sims Mobile is not interesting to me at all, so I hope it's about a new expansion.
I wouldn't worry about it being TS5 yet. I think some people who really dislike this version have their wishful-thinking caps on, is all. Maxis has been pretty clear that they're following a different release schedule/pattern for dlc with TS4 and, even more recently, that they'll be offering plenty more content for this game. I really do think they plan on continuing with this version for awhile yet to come.
There is no doubt that TS4 will get another EP, a GP and at least 4 more SPs which is quite a lot. But this doesn’t prevent EA from announcing TS5 in a couple of months and then release it about 15 months later in the second half of 2019. So I think that the wishful thinking is mostly done by the dreamers who want TS4 to continue to 2022 or even later
Graham said the they follow a different schedule with the packs for TS4. But we already know that because we have seen that at least half of the usual EPs now are replaced by both the new GPs and by many more SPs. Again the wishful dreamers instead overinterpretate the statement to mean a guarantee that TS4 will continue forever until TS4 even has more EPs than TS3 got
But, this is the speculation section so, like everyone else, I'm just speculating. Either way, I'm interested to see what they're planning next for the Sims.
I have followed this debate closely and I am not especially interested in TS5 even though I don’t play TS4 anymore. The reason is that I don’t think that the release of TS5 will stop the changed schedule with many smaller packs instead of a lot of big EPs. Actually I fear that TS5 won’t get even a single EP but only GPs and even more SPs than TS4 got.
It's not wishful thinking. It was already stated they will keep making packs for sims 4 until it no longer makes sense. What that means exactly is speculation, but I believe it means either until the game gets too clogged up, it stops making money, or they have a new idea they can only add with a new sims because the engine limits them.
I actually think that I read that statement a long time ago. But I only read it as one of those meaningless statements that people often say when they don’t have a real answer. Also I didn’t put more meaning into it because I know that it isn’t the devs but instead EA’s top who make such decisions and it is unlikely that EA’s top already had made a more accurate statement to the devs at the time. So “until it no longer makes sense” likely just meant “until EA has told us to release TS5 instead” or “until TS5 is so close to be released that more packs for TS4 won’t make sense anymore”
Even Grant on the First page says Sims 4 isn't going anywhere anytime soon.
Wasn’t that a long time ago? But anyway: That is obviously true because they still will release packs for TS4 at least a year more. Most likely until late in the spring of 2019. And besides even TS3 hasn’t gone anywhere yet and its packs are still sold by EA for high prices
The Graham quote you are mentioning and this quote are TWO different quotes. Nobody is confusing them for each other.
Maybe not. But I think that many simmers overinterpretate those statements because they forget that the developers only are making the games. They aren’t the top managers in EA who decide which games to make and when they are released. So statements from the devs about such thing are usually vague and based on their own private guesses which they avoid to state too explicitly though.
Totally right. It's managers who take decisions, not producers.
If they reveal The Sims 5, it better has pools, toddlers, ghosts, a Color Wheel and more open worlds from the beginning or I'm going to be mad
I'd settle for open neighborhoods with loading screens going between neighborhoods/worlds. I don't want to go back to being stuck in the same world for entire generations, or moving to another world but losing all your existing family/friend relationships like in Sims 3.
Not to speak ill of the departed, but it feels like the game did take a turn for the better with the change in management, meaning when Rachel Franklin left and we got Lyndsey Pearson who is a Sim veteran. The Sims is a unique game -- unlike games where you have a definitive end, the Sims are endless. Even if your original Sim dies, you can pick up and go one with any other Sim in the game. Barring save corruption, you can play the same save for years; I'm sure there are players who have been playing the same save since September 2014 when the game released. (not me, I've got too short an attention sp...oh look, shiny!). I think that takes a certain perspective and attitude that can't be easily found in the game industry.
Actually even in Sims 3 you don’t have to with mods (and cheats, nothing easier than repairing a friendship in the game), I can repair family trees just fine now with Mastercontroller. I’m convinced they are capable of creating a world way bigger than a TS4 neighborhood and connect them. Not in the least because a moderator even managed to do it with the TS3 worlds. It’s possible so I won’t settle for much less (the worlds don’t need to be as big as Sims 3’s, but they’ll have to be as open and immersive for me).
Even with mods, when my Sim and his alien half-brother moved from Sunlit Tides to Isla Paradiso using the in-game system, they still arrived as just Good Friends and totally lost the family relationship which basically ruined my planned storyline. And they were totally cut off from their family back home. In Sims 4 I can move my YAs to San Myshuno and still able to call the parents in Newcrest to meet at the Diving Pelican in Windenburg to have dinner. Can't do that in Sims 3. And what about the players who don't want to use mods?
I wouldn't mind seeing a bit better time management -- there should be at least some sort of passage of time when traveling between neighborhoods and worlds, but I don't want to be sitting and watching a taxi driving down the road taking up gameplay time.
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@Erpe It’s really literally been said, that the life span of Sims 4 will be different (longer) than for its predecessors. I believe it was GuruDrake who said it, on these forums. It isn’t speculation, it’s based on a statement (it left me quite hopeless I must confess, because it even sounded like they were aiming for a ten year anniversary).
The only thing I have seen is a statement where they said (and I believe that it was Graham who said it) that we shouldn’t expect the same schedule for the packs as we have been used to. I understood that statement as we shouldn’t expect 2 EPs a year anymore but instead a GP and some SPs. They later then began to make two GPs each year instead of only one and I thought that the reason was that EA’s top had been very satisfied with the sales numbers for the first GPs and therefore had told the developers to increase the number of GPs. I also saw signs that EA’s top weren’t very satisfied with the sales numbers for EPs and therefore feared that they would tell the developers not to make any more EPs at all. But instead it seems that EA’s top decided to still make about one EP each year but only reduced the budget for that EP such that EPs now have less content than the EPs for TS2 and TS3 used to have. This make me still fear that EA’s top will decide not to make EPs at all for TS5 though.
I have been surprised that so many in the forum instead understood their statement about the changed schedule for packs as they would release packs for TS4 in several more years and it for me looked like many in the forum understood it that way just because they thought that EPs now must have become more difficult to make such that it would take more years to make all the usual EPs for TS4 too. But I just never have believed at all that EA’s top reduced the number of EPs for such a reason and I am sure that EPs for TS4 instead have been even easier and cheaper for EA to make because of their reduced content. So I am sure that the problem instead has been that EA can make 2 GPs for the same money as EA earlier used to make an EP. But 2 GPs likely give EA bigger income from their sales than just one EP does. Therefore I also don’t at all believe that EA again will increase the number of yearly EPs.
@ebuchala I don’t think that EA just stops making EPs when they aren’t profitable anymore because EA has never done that. Instead EA has always stopped already after 5 years even though EA easily could have sold many more EPs. Also EA could have made more EPs for the previous basegame even after EA had released the next basegame. But EA hasn’t done that either. So if we want to understand how EA plans things then we have to ask why not?
So I have conseidered this and I think that EA looks at things much more broadly instead of just considering possible profit for each pack. The problem for EA here must be that EA knows that if they release too many packs within too short time then many simmers will just stop buying everything and the packs will just steal customers from eachother. Therefore EA has decided not to release packs for more than a certain amount of money each year. But EA likely just add the prices for all packs and doesn’t count just EPs like so many in the forum seem to do.
So again I think that EA’s decision about when to release the next basegame is based just on the same considerations as earlier and the problem here mainly is that after 5 years it has become difficult for EA to attract new customers to the current game. Therefore EA has always planned to release a new basegame after almost exactly 5 years and I just don’t see why EA should have made different considerations now. Of course it is possible (at least theoretically) that EA considered to not release TS5 at all or not in the next many years or that EA has postponed the release of TS5 because the development of TS5 has given EA unexpected problems. I just don’t find that very likely.
Eventually, every game engine reaches its limit where it can't handle any more content. If you're a completionist and want all the content that's released, it's going to start to bog down your computer especially if you're trying to get by with a less powerful computer (especially if you're low on RAM). That's what happened to a lot of players in Sims 3, especially those who bought a lot of stuff from the Store as well as the EPs and SPs. With only one EP a year, supplemented by smaller GPs and SPs and with no store content to clutter things up, maybe they stretch out Sims 4 for an extra year or two. If there is a Sims 5, my theory is that we might see it in 2020 coinciding with the 20th anniversary of The Sims series. That would mean that the game engine is currently in development or possibly close to completion to give the game developers plenty of time to create the actual game -- and considering all that was missing in the Sims 4 base game, I'm willing to give the devs as much time as they need to get things right.
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I'm still thinking that the EA Play "announcement" isn't going to be about the PC version, but something to do with console. If it is for PC, more likely it's regarding another GP; the attendees will get the first hands on experience, then a week or two after EA Play it'll be released for sale. I read a comment that someone found coding for Witches in the game, and it was more than just the Witch costume from Spooky Stuff. And if Seasons is next up and it doesn't release until fall, June would be way too early to announce it; I think an EP announcement would be held off till Gamescom when more of the worldwide gaming media will be present, and leave less time for the forums to melt down before release.
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Who's gonna buy any more Sims 4 packs if there's a whole new game coming out in 18 months? I know I wouldn't.
They haven't even released Seasons yet.
I think there are three things to be discussed - Sims Mobile release, and whatever game pack is out this quarter, while also fielding questions about this year's EP.
You see, while some people clamour for Sims 5, EA knows that it can appeal to many more new customers than Sims 5 would get for their money, by employing porting teams. You see, the younger audience IS on the phone apps.
There's a good reason the Devs would want Sims 4 to last. You see, Triple-A Devs are in a pretty lousy position when it comes to job stability. As soon as a game is complete, their jobs are pretty much over. Bye-bye, don't let the door hit your plum on the way out. A sequel with an identical engine is their only chance, and not much of a chance at that. When Sims 4 was made, a whole new team was brought in for a whole new engine, and then the Sims 3 staff got laid off.
No way is it just EA who treats devs that way. So Devs are not going to turn to their employers and say "We're out of ideas, I guess you've got to pay us to make Sims 5 now" cuz for sure they won't be on the team making it. And I'm not knocking at the Devs for it either. That's what happens when you don't have a union.
I think standard game developer rules don't really apply to the Sims. Look at how many of the SimGurus have been around since Sims 2 and even the original Sims game. Much of the current functions remain the same, even if the game engines change; you still have the programming for interactions between Sims, or between Sims and objects, character design and such. And it costs a lot of money to dismiss employees and bring in new ones; depending on the company, you'll have vacation/sick time to cash out, 401(k)s that have to be transferred which could mean stock options being held in an 401(k) have to be converted, etc. It's like the old song "Cheaper to keep her" -- if you've got a good employee it's cheaper to hang onto that person rather than replace with someone who might turn out to be a lousy worker who spends most of his/her time surfing the Web.
As for who will continue to buy Sims 4 packs? I will, and probably many others, in case Sims 5 is beyond our current computer specs and we're not sure if we can afford an upgrade right away when Sims 5 is released. I bought Into the Future even though I knew Sims 4 was coming in a few months. And I might even wait to get a Sims 5 base game anyway if it's missing key features like toddlers.
I'm a little confused with the whole TS5 idea. Didn't Graham said that now when the big Pets expansion pack is done, they can work on new exciting packs, or something like that? I don't now, I got impression that there's a lot to do with TS4 (and I think so myself), but everybody suddenly talks about TS5... Anyway, it'd be rather odd if they annouce now the game to come in few years, the Sims Mobile is not interesting to me at all, so I hope it's about a new expansion.
I wouldn't worry about it being TS5 yet. I think some people who really dislike this version have their wishful-thinking caps on, is all. Maxis has been pretty clear that they're following a different release schedule/pattern for dlc with TS4 and, even more recently, that they'll be offering plenty more content for this game. I really do think they plan on continuing with this version for awhile yet to come.
There is no doubt that TS4 will get another EP, a GP and at least 4 more SPs which is quite a lot. But this doesn’t prevent EA from announcing TS5 in a couple of months and then release it about 15 months later in the second half of 2019. So I think that the wishful thinking is mostly done by the dreamers who want TS4 to continue to 2022 or even later
Graham said the they follow a different schedule with the packs for TS4. But we already know that because we have seen that at least half of the usual EPs now are replaced by both the new GPs and by many more SPs. Again the wishful dreamers instead overinterpretate the statement to mean a guarantee that TS4 will continue forever until TS4 even has more EPs than TS3 got
But, this is the speculation section so, like everyone else, I'm just speculating. Either way, I'm interested to see what they're planning next for the Sims.
I have followed this debate closely and I am not especially interested in TS5 even though I don’t play TS4 anymore. The reason is that I don’t think that the release of TS5 will stop the changed schedule with many smaller packs instead of a lot of big EPs. Actually I fear that TS5 won’t get even a single EP but only GPs and even more SPs than TS4 got.
It's not wishful thinking. It was already stated they will keep making packs for sims 4 until it no longer makes sense. What that means exactly is speculation, but I believe it means either until the game gets too clogged up, it stops making money, or they have a new idea they can only add with a new sims because the engine limits them.
I actually think that I read that statement a long time ago. But I only read it as one of those meaningless statements that people often say when they don’t have a real answer. Also I didn’t put more meaning into it because I know that it isn’t the devs but instead EA’s top who make such decisions and it is unlikely that EA’s top already had made a more accurate statement to the devs at the time. So “until it no longer makes sense” likely just meant “until EA has told us to release TS5 instead” or “until TS5 is so close to be released that more packs for TS4 won’t make sense anymore”
Even Grant on the First page says Sims 4 isn't going anywhere anytime soon.
Wasn’t that a long time ago? But anyway: That is obviously true because they still will release packs for TS4 at least a year more. Most likely until late in the spring of 2019. And besides even TS3 hasn’t gone anywhere yet and its packs are still sold by EA for high prices
The Graham quote you are mentioning and this quote are TWO different quotes. Nobody is confusing them for each other.
Maybe not. But I think that many simmers overinterpretate those statements because they forget that the developers only are making the games. They aren’t the top managers in EA who decide which games to make and when they are released. So statements from the devs about such thing are usually vague and based on their own private guesses which they avoid to state too explicitly though.
I think the teams have a bit more input in what gets made than is implied. Basically, they get the budget for a pack (EP, GP or SP) from upstairs then they discuss ideas and choose a theme, working within budget limits to produce content. The Community SP project really gave a great look at the process of producing a pack, just a bit more stretched out because of the need to get community input instead of yelling at each other over a white board.
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I'm a little confused with the whole TS5 idea. Didn't Graham said that now when the big Pets expansion pack is done, they can work on new exciting packs, or something like that? I don't now, I got impression that there's a lot to do with TS4 (and I think so myself), but everybody suddenly talks about TS5... Anyway, it'd be rather odd if they annouce now the game to come in few years, the Sims Mobile is not interesting to me at all, so I hope it's about a new expansion.
I wouldn't worry about it being TS5 yet. I think some people who really dislike this version have their wishful-thinking caps on, is all. Maxis has been pretty clear that they're following a different release schedule/pattern for dlc with TS4 and, even more recently, that they'll be offering plenty more content for this game. I really do think they plan on continuing with this version for awhile yet to come.
There is no doubt that TS4 will get another EP, a GP and at least 4 more SPs which is quite a lot. But this doesn’t prevent EA from announcing TS5 in a couple of months and then release it about 15 months later in the second half of 2019. So I think that the wishful thinking is mostly done by the dreamers who want TS4 to continue to 2022 or even later
Graham said the they follow a different schedule with the packs for TS4. But we already know that because we have seen that at least half of the usual EPs now are replaced by both the new GPs and by many more SPs. Again the wishful dreamers instead overinterpretate the statement to mean a guarantee that TS4 will continue forever until TS4 even has more EPs than TS3 got
But, this is the speculation section so, like everyone else, I'm just speculating. Either way, I'm interested to see what they're planning next for the Sims.
I have followed this debate closely and I am not especially interested in TS5 even though I don’t play TS4 anymore. The reason is that I don’t think that the release of TS5 will stop the changed schedule with many smaller packs instead of a lot of big EPs. Actually I fear that TS5 won’t get even a single EP but only GPs and even more SPs than TS4 got.
It's not wishful thinking. It was already stated they will keep making packs for sims 4 until it no longer makes sense. What that means exactly is speculation, but I believe it means either until the game gets too clogged up, it stops making money, or they have a new idea they can only add with a new sims because the engine limits them.
I actually think that I read that statement a long time ago. But I only read it as one of those meaningless statements that people often say when they don’t have a real answer. Also I didn’t put more meaning into it because I know that it isn’t the devs but instead EA’s top who make such decisions and it is unlikely that EA’s top already had made a more accurate statement to the devs at the time. So “until it no longer makes sense” likely just meant “until EA has told us to release TS5 instead” or “until TS5 is so close to be released that more packs for TS4 won’t make sense anymore”
Even Grant on the First page says Sims 4 isn't going anywhere anytime soon.
Wasn’t that a long time ago? But anyway: That is obviously true because they still will release packs for TS4 at least a year more. Most likely until late in the spring of 2019. And besides even TS3 hasn’t gone anywhere yet and its packs are still sold by EA for high prices
The Graham quote you are mentioning and this quote are TWO different quotes. Nobody is confusing them for each other.
Maybe not. But I think that many simmers overinterpretate those statements because they forget that the developers only are making the games. They aren’t the top managers in EA who decide which games to make and when they are released. So statements from the devs about such thing are usually vague and based on their own private guesses which they avoid to state too explicitly though.
They even state the end of pets the start of the second wave. So I’d say another few years to go.
I remember Grant saying before TS4 was released that it would have 50 Packs. Now I'm starting to believe it.
Yep, we’re on pack 26 I believe. In that article Grant said we’re on the second wave so that would make sense. I’d say another 2 years of sims 4 content and sims 5 near end of 2020.
They even state the end of pets the start of the second wave. So I’d say another few years to go.
I remember Grant saying before TS4 was released that it would have 50 Packs. Now I'm starting to believe it.
Yep, we’re on pack 26 I believe. In that article Grant said we’re on the second wave so that would make sense. I’d say another 2 years of sims 4 content and sims 5 near end of 2020.
But Grant is only a producer too. So he doesn’t make the decisions. Managers do. Therefore I don’t overinterpretate statements from producers because they aren’t responsible for those things and therefore always says something vague when they are asked about things which they don’t know for sure.
The decisions are made by top managers instead and the reason why those managers don’t tell a lot of details about the future clearly is that they don’t make all the decisions before it is necessary. Many of their decisions they also change or adjust later. So they don’t tell us about their plans early and they usually don’t tell the devs about the plans either before the devs need to know. That way they don’t need to explain to everybody why they dropped a game, decided to suddenly make an unplanned game or changed the schedule or content for a game already in development.
So when producers only make vague statements it is usually because they don’t know more yet and only are guessing. But people study every detail in their statements anyway and analyze the statements as if the producers instead were the top managers who made all the plans and decisions. But they aren’t.
As an example we can ask the producers forever if there is a TS5 under development. They won’t answer. But if somebody in 2016 or 2017 instead had asked a top manager in EA if TS5 was under development then this top manager most likely would have confirmed it (a top manager did this when he got a similar question a few years ago and I think it was about TS3 in the TS2 days).
They even state the end of pets the start of the second wave. So I’d say another few years to go.
I remember Grant saying before TS4 was released that it would have 50 Packs. Now I'm starting to believe it.
Yep, we’re on pack 26 I believe. In that article Grant said we’re on the second wave so that would make sense. I’d say another 2 years of sims 4 content and sims 5 near end of 2020.
But Grant is only a producer too. So he doesn’t make the decisions. Managers do. Therefore I don’t overinterpretate statements from producers because they aren’t responsible for those things and therefore always says something vague when they are asked about things which they don’t know for sure.
The decisions are made by top managers instead and the reason why those managers don’t tell a lot of details about the future clearly is that they don’t make all the decisions before it is necessary. Many of their decisions they also change or adjust later. So they don’t tell us about their plans early and they usually don’t tell the devs about the plans either before the devs need to know. That way they don’t need to explain to everybody why they dropped a game, decided to suddenly make an unplanned game or changed the schedule or content for a game already in development.
So when producers only make vague statements it is usually because they don’t know more yet and only are guessing. But people study every detail in their statements anyway and analyze the statements as if the producers instead were the top managers who made all the plans and decisions. But they aren’t.
As an example we can ask the producers forever if there is a TS5 under development. They won’t answer. But if somebody in 2016 or 2017 instead had asked a top manager in EA if TS5 was under development then this top manager most likely would have confirmed it (a top manager did this when he got a similar question a few years ago and I think it was about TS3 in the TS2 days).
They know they don’t tell because it breaks there contract. You can’t really let people know about any future content until an official statement. That’s how it normally works for a lot of things not just video games. They know for sure they don’t get to make the call on when it comes out but they have the most understanding as to what’s going on. At the same time they won’t all agree to mention all the time that hey sims 4 will have a longer life. They can’t openly tell people that unless they are told they can mention it. People overly examine what they say because anything that they do say is what they can say. It’s all planned years in advance of what is going on.
They even state the end of pets the start of the second wave. So I’d say another few years to go.
I remember Grant saying before TS4 was released that it would have 50 Packs. Now I'm starting to believe it.
Yep, we’re on pack 26 I believe. In that article Grant said we’re on the second wave so that would make sense. I’d say another 2 years of sims 4 content and sims 5 near end of 2020.
But Grant is only a producer too. So he doesn’t make the decisions. Managers do. Therefore I don’t overinterpretate statements from producers because they aren’t responsible for those things and therefore always says something vague when they are asked about things which they don’t know for sure.
The decisions are made by top managers instead and the reason why those managers don’t tell a lot of details about the future clearly is that they don’t make all the decisions before it is necessary. Many of their decisions they also change or adjust later. So they don’t tell us about their plans early and they usually don’t tell the devs about the plans either before the devs need to know. That way they don’t need to explain to everybody why they dropped a game, decided to suddenly make an unplanned game or changed the schedule or content for a game already in development.
So when producers only make vague statements it is usually because they don’t know more yet and only are guessing. But people study every detail in their statements anyway and analyze the statements as if the producers instead were the top managers who made all the plans and decisions. But they aren’t.
As an example we can ask the producers forever if there is a TS5 under development. They won’t answer. But if somebody in 2016 or 2017 instead had asked a top manager in EA if TS5 was under development then this top manager most likely would have confirmed it (a top manager did this when he got a similar question a few years ago and I think it was about TS3 in the TS2 days).
They know they don’t tell because it breaks there contract. You can’t really let people know about any future content until an official statement. That’s how it normally works for a lot of things not just video games. They know for sure they don’t get to make the call on when it comes out but they have the most understanding as to what’s going on.
I agree. The developers can’t tell because they all almost certainly have signed a contract which prohibits them from telling anything about unannounced games in development and even after they have left EA if that should happen.
But the top managers are different because they are the people who make the decisions. Therefore they are also the people who can decide when to tell a little more. Therefore such a manager a few years ago just confirmed that there was a new basegame under development when he was asked. He didn’t tell anything more about it though and the official announcement didn’t come until many months later.
At the same time they won’t all agree to mention all the time that hey sims 4 will have a longer life. They can’t openly tell people that unless they are told they can mention it. People overly examine what they say because anything that they do say is what they can say. It’s all planned years in advance of what is going on.
But the devs are still very careful not to say anything at all directly. Sure they can say that “we will continue to make packs for TS4 until it doesn’t make sense anymore” because this won’t ever be a lie. The statement can be interpreted in many ways. But really it only says “we haven’t made the last pack for TS4 yet and we will continue to make packs for TS4 until our top managers in EA tell us to stop”.
It isn’t a fault made by the developers that simmers use wishful thinking to imagine that the statements from the developers should mean much more than the developers intended those statements to mean. Also the developers aren’t allowed to correct this wishful thinking because they can’t do that without saying more than they know or are allowed to say.
If they reveal The Sims 5, it better has pools, toddlers, ghosts, a Color Wheel and more open worlds from the beginning or I'm going to be mad
I'd settle for open neighborhoods with loading screens going between neighborhoods/worlds. I don't want to go back to being stuck in the same world for entire generations, or moving to another world but losing all your existing family/friend relationships like in Sims 3.
Not to speak ill of the departed, but it feels like the game did take a turn for the better with the change in management, meaning when Rachel Franklin left and we got Lyndsey Pearson who is a Sim veteran. The Sims is a unique game -- unlike games where you have a definitive end, the Sims are endless. Even if your original Sim dies, you can pick up and go one with any other Sim in the game. Barring save corruption, you can play the same save for years; I'm sure there are players who have been playing the same save since September 2014 when the game released. (not me, I've got too short an attention sp...oh look, shiny!). I think that takes a certain perspective and attitude that can't be easily found in the game industry.
Actually even in Sims 3 you don’t have to with mods (and cheats, nothing easier than repairing a friendship in the game), I can repair family trees just fine now with Mastercontroller. I’m convinced they are capable of creating a world way bigger than a TS4 neighborhood and connect them. Not in the least because a moderator even managed to do it with the TS3 worlds. It’s possible so I won’t settle for much less (the worlds don’t need to be as big as Sims 3’s, but they’ll have to be as open and immersive for me).
Even with mods, when my Sim and his alien half-brother moved from Sunlit Tides to Isla Paradiso using the in-game system, they still arrived as just Good Friends and totally lost the family relationship which basically ruined my planned storyline. And they were totally cut off from their family back home. In Sims 4 I can move my YAs to San Myshuno and still able to call the parents in Newcrest to meet at the Diving Pelican in Windenburg to have dinner. Can't do that in Sims 3. And what about the players who don't want to use mods?
I wouldn't mind seeing a bit better time management -- there should be at least some sort of passage of time when traveling between neighborhoods and worlds, but I don't want to be sitting and watching a taxi driving down the road taking up gameplay time.
With Traveler it works exactly like in Sims 4, meaning sims will remember who they left behind and can travel back if they want to. And as for your alien half-brother: with Mastercontroller you can repair family ties and turn every sim in town into a half-brother if you'd want to. And when you put sims in one household together when you move them, you don't even have to use mods.
It's great you can travel between neighborhoods now, don't get me wrong, but it's in no way tied to this 'tiny neighborhoods with loadingscreens all over and uncontrollable sims at the other side' system Sims 4 has. In fact I prefer a modless Sims 3 situation myself if it's between those two. Because I've never felt stuck to one world for entire generations, even when I played without mods. I'm in my 21st generation and my sims have lived in seven different worlds and had adventures in X more. Playing in an actual world where I can control all my sims at all times is much more important to me.
If they reveal The Sims 5, it better has pools, toddlers, ghosts, a Color Wheel and more open worlds from the beginning or I'm going to be mad
I'd settle for open neighborhoods with loading screens going between neighborhoods/worlds. I don't want to go back to being stuck in the same world for entire generations, or moving to another world but losing all your existing family/friend relationships like in Sims 3.
Not to speak ill of the departed, but it feels like the game did take a turn for the better with the change in management, meaning when Rachel Franklin left and we got Lyndsey Pearson who is a Sim veteran. The Sims is a unique game -- unlike games where you have a definitive end, the Sims are endless. Even if your original Sim dies, you can pick up and go one with any other Sim in the game. Barring save corruption, you can play the same save for years; I'm sure there are players who have been playing the same save since September 2014 when the game released. (not me, I've got too short an attention sp...oh look, shiny!). I think that takes a certain perspective and attitude that can't be easily found in the game industry.
Actually even in Sims 3 you don’t have to with mods (and cheats, nothing easier than repairing a friendship in the game), I can repair family trees just fine now with Mastercontroller. I’m convinced they are capable of creating a world way bigger than a TS4 neighborhood and connect them. Not in the least because a moderator even managed to do it with the TS3 worlds. It’s possible so I won’t settle for much less (the worlds don’t need to be as big as Sims 3’s, but they’ll have to be as open and immersive for me).
Even with mods, when my Sim and his alien half-brother moved from Sunlit Tides to Isla Paradiso using the in-game system, they still arrived as just Good Friends and totally lost the family relationship which basically ruined my planned storyline. And they were totally cut off from their family back home. In Sims 4 I can move my YAs to San Myshuno and still able to call the parents in Newcrest to meet at the Diving Pelican in Windenburg to have dinner. Can't do that in Sims 3. And what about the players who don't want to use mods?
I wouldn't mind seeing a bit better time management -- there should be at least some sort of passage of time when traveling between neighborhoods and worlds, but I don't want to be sitting and watching a taxi driving down the road taking up gameplay time.
With Traveler it works exactly like in Sims 4, meaning sims will remember who they left behind and can travel back if they want to. And as for your alien half-brother: with Mastercontroller you can repair family ties and turn every sim in town into a half-brother if you'd want to. And when you put sims in one household together when you move them, you don't even have to use mods.
It's great you can travel between neighborhoods now, don't get me wrong, but it's in no way tied to this 'tiny neighborhoods with loadingscreens all over and uncontrollable sims at the other side' system Sims 4 has. In fact I prefer a modless Sims 3 situation myself if it's between those two. Because I've never felt stuck to one world for entire generations, even when I played without mods. I'm in my 21st generation and my sims have lived in seven different worlds and had adventures in X more. Playing in an actual world where I can control all my sims at all times is much more important to me.
Totally right. I just can't feel ''connected'' in TS4, it's the opposite. But in TS3 here I can feel connected.
I hope it's The Sims 5 and even more hope that it ain't plum!
Well it does say next sim experiences not new so maybe more packs? Plus they said experiences maybe more then one. I don’t see how they already have a sims 5 demo ready for people to play before even being announced.
Comments
They haven't even released Seasons yet.
I think there are three things to be discussed - Sims Mobile release, and whatever game pack is out this quarter, while also fielding questions about this year's EP.
You see, while some people clamour for Sims 5, EA knows that it can appeal to many more new customers than Sims 5 would get for their money, by employing porting teams. You see, the younger audience IS on the phone apps.
There's a good reason the Devs would want Sims 4 to last. You see, Triple-A Devs are in a pretty lousy position when it comes to job stability. As soon as a game is complete, their jobs are pretty much over. Bye-bye, don't let the door hit your plum on the way out. A sequel with an identical engine is their only chance, and not much of a chance at that. When Sims 4 was made, a whole new team was brought in for a whole new engine, and then the Sims 3 staff got laid off.
No way is it just EA who treats devs that way. So Devs are not going to turn to their employers and say "We're out of ideas, I guess you've got to pay us to make Sims 5 now" cuz for sure they won't be on the team making it. And I'm not knocking at the Devs for it either. That's what happens when you don't have a union.
If TS5 is released in about 18 months then it at that time will have only the basegame. Would you really stop playing TS4 for a coulple of years and just wait to only play with the basegame for TS5?
Correct. But if they release Seasons later this year and then TS5 a year after that then you will have a whole year to play with Seasons. Won’t that be enough?
Yes. Therefore EA has released the Sims Mobile. But something points in the direction that EA doesn’t even know for how long that game will be interesting to play because EA has strongly pointed out that EA has reserved the right to close the game’s server down with only one month notice before it is actually done.
Not really. Only the studio in Salt Lake was told to make other games until EA was sure that the studio wouldn’t be needed for TS4 too. But when it became clear that this wasn’t the case because the cheap-to-make SPs and GPs sold very well EA then decided to finally close Salt Lake down less than a year ago.
You should just study a little how EA’s top usually treat EA’s employees
EA has bought a lot of other companies just to get the rights to use their most profitable game series. But EA has also closed most of their studios down after a few years when EA didn’t need those studios anymore and without caring about their employees at all. EA’s employees get nice surroundings to work in and discounts when they buy EA’s games. But then they also have to accept a lot of overtime and they have no job security at all. You can read much more about this if you search for “EA employees” in Google because both current and earlier EA employees have told about it many times.
So no. EA’s top won’t at all consider the devs when they decide the future for the Sims games - but only how they can maximize the profit from those games.
Ah, @JoAnne65 I seem to recall the same thing from Drake but didn't remember well enough so didn't mention it. I really have had the impression from the start they're trying to extend this version as long as possible.
I believe profitability is a major, if not the major defining factor in deciding when to stop producing something for any company. But I would also assume that functionality fits into that--meaning by the time we had all EPs and SPs for TS3 released, Maxis was stating in the launch box that we shouldn't have all of them installed or we could expect a degradation in performance. I'm fairly sure the engine design for this base game as well as the way the packs are being produced and released is a very large tell regarding their life expectancy for TS4. Between both profitability and performance with the addition of each new pack, I'm sure you would find the equation for when that decision is made. And, really, based on what's been stated, this entire version run is supposed to be different than previous ones so I'm not sure why you're clinging to the idea that they're going to handle it the same as past versions. Plus, it all boils down to the fact that we simply don't know what all they use to determine when it's time to make that move so it's all just grand speculation anyway.
Your statement about EA not wanting to release too many packs in too short of a time seems to speak more to my point, as well. It shows that they're trying to extend the lifetime of the game, in my opinion. I actually did a quick tally in another thread about prices for TS4 to show how profitable this game is in it's current iteration versus starting a whole new version. They currently have a functioning (for the most part) engine in place with a base game that's past it's initial premium cost and is now sold at a heavily discounted price but, still sold. At this point, you estimate (US currency) $40 per EP each year (anywhere from 1/2 to 2/3 of a full AAA title), 2-$20 GPs each year, and at least 3-4 $10 SPs each year. For a single game with a lot less work than it costs to produce a whole new AAA title, they're making between $40 and $110, easily per Simmer almost guaranteed (not to even mention new customers or old customers who come back and buy later like what happened when Toddlers were released). Compared to an unguaranteed $80 per person for a new game that might flop. At some point the new game makes sense but don't fool yourself into thinking it doesn't all boil down to money/profit in the end.
I'm not a psychopath. I'm a high-functioning psychopath. Reaper
Just compare the price for buying all the packs for TS4 in a year with the price for buying all the packs in a year for TS2 or TS3 and you will see that buying all the packs is still the same each year. So EA hasn’t changed anything in that area. The change only is that EA now releases more but smaller packs compared with the earlier games. Therefore I still think it most likely that EA will announce TS5 this summer and to be released in the second half of 2019.
EA has made several experiments though. For TS3 EA experimented with objects in the Sims 3 store and in both 2012 and 2013 by releasing even 3 EPs each year. But it now seems clear that EA has decided that stuff is best sold in SPs. Also it seems that EA then decided that 3 EPs were way too many and that it would be much better to only release 1 EP each year but then compensate by releasing 2 or 3 half sized EPs too (and to call them something else like gamepacks instead).
That EA then also decided to make the EPs smaller (and most likely by reducing their budgets) just shows that EA now thinks that EPs are much less important than SPs and GPs are. So I even think that EA is considering to stop making EPs completely. But why should EA then decide that TS4 need 20 more SPs and a few more GPs just to give new simmers more to choose from before EA releases a Sims 5 game which most likely has been under development since about 2015?
It's not wishful thinking. It was already stated they will keep making packs for sims 4 until it no longer makes sense. What that means exactly is speculation, but I believe it means either until the game gets too clogged up, it stops making money, or they have a new idea they can only add with a new sims because the engine limits them.
Even Grant on the First page says Sims 4 isn't going anywhere anytime soon.
The Graham quote you are mentioning and this quote are TWO different quotes. Nobody is confusing them for each other.
Wasn’t that a long time ago? But anyway: That is obviously true because they still will release packs for TS4 at least a year more. Most likely until late in the spring of 2019. And besides even TS3 hasn’t gone anywhere yet and its packs are still sold by EA for high prices
Maybe not. But I think that many simmers overinterpretate those statements because they forget that the developers only are making the games. They aren’t the top managers in EA who decide which games to make and when they are released. So statements from the devs about such thing are usually vague and based on their own private guesses which they avoid to state too explicitly though.
Totally right. It's managers who take decisions, not producers.
Even with mods, when my Sim and his alien half-brother moved from Sunlit Tides to Isla Paradiso using the in-game system, they still arrived as just Good Friends and totally lost the family relationship which basically ruined my planned storyline. And they were totally cut off from their family back home. In Sims 4 I can move my YAs to San Myshuno and still able to call the parents in Newcrest to meet at the Diving Pelican in Windenburg to have dinner. Can't do that in Sims 3. And what about the players who don't want to use mods?
I wouldn't mind seeing a bit better time management -- there should be at least some sort of passage of time when traveling between neighborhoods and worlds, but I don't want to be sitting and watching a taxi driving down the road taking up gameplay time.
Fun must be always -- Tomas Hertl (San Jose Sharks hockey player)
Eventually, every game engine reaches its limit where it can't handle any more content. If you're a completionist and want all the content that's released, it's going to start to bog down your computer especially if you're trying to get by with a less powerful computer (especially if you're low on RAM). That's what happened to a lot of players in Sims 3, especially those who bought a lot of stuff from the Store as well as the EPs and SPs. With only one EP a year, supplemented by smaller GPs and SPs and with no store content to clutter things up, maybe they stretch out Sims 4 for an extra year or two. If there is a Sims 5, my theory is that we might see it in 2020 coinciding with the 20th anniversary of The Sims series. That would mean that the game engine is currently in development or possibly close to completion to give the game developers plenty of time to create the actual game -- and considering all that was missing in the Sims 4 base game, I'm willing to give the devs as much time as they need to get things right.
Fun must be always -- Tomas Hertl (San Jose Sharks hockey player)
Fun must be always -- Tomas Hertl (San Jose Sharks hockey player)
I think standard game developer rules don't really apply to the Sims. Look at how many of the SimGurus have been around since Sims 2 and even the original Sims game. Much of the current functions remain the same, even if the game engines change; you still have the programming for interactions between Sims, or between Sims and objects, character design and such. And it costs a lot of money to dismiss employees and bring in new ones; depending on the company, you'll have vacation/sick time to cash out, 401(k)s that have to be transferred which could mean stock options being held in an 401(k) have to be converted, etc. It's like the old song "Cheaper to keep her" -- if you've got a good employee it's cheaper to hang onto that person rather than replace with someone who might turn out to be a lousy worker who spends most of his/her time surfing the Web.
As for who will continue to buy Sims 4 packs? I will, and probably many others, in case Sims 5 is beyond our current computer specs and we're not sure if we can afford an upgrade right away when Sims 5 is released. I bought Into the Future even though I knew Sims 4 was coming in a few months. And I might even wait to get a Sims 5 base game anyway if it's missing key features like toddlers.
I think the teams have a bit more input in what gets made than is implied. Basically, they get the budget for a pack (EP, GP or SP) from upstairs then they discuss ideas and choose a theme, working within budget limits to produce content. The Community SP project really gave a great look at the process of producing a pack, just a bit more stretched out because of the need to get community input instead of yelling at each other over a white board.
Fun must be always -- Tomas Hertl (San Jose Sharks hockey player)
I remember Grant saying before TS4 was released that it would have 50 Packs. Now I'm starting to believe it.
No Grant said that either Last Year or recently.
Yep, we’re on pack 26 I believe. In that article Grant said we’re on the second wave so that would make sense. I’d say another 2 years of sims 4 content and sims 5 near end of 2020.
The decisions are made by top managers instead and the reason why those managers don’t tell a lot of details about the future clearly is that they don’t make all the decisions before it is necessary. Many of their decisions they also change or adjust later. So they don’t tell us about their plans early and they usually don’t tell the devs about the plans either before the devs need to know. That way they don’t need to explain to everybody why they dropped a game, decided to suddenly make an unplanned game or changed the schedule or content for a game already in development.
So when producers only make vague statements it is usually because they don’t know more yet and only are guessing. But people study every detail in their statements anyway and analyze the statements as if the producers instead were the top managers who made all the plans and decisions. But they aren’t.
As an example we can ask the producers forever if there is a TS5 under development. They won’t answer. But if somebody in 2016 or 2017 instead had asked a top manager in EA if TS5 was under development then this top manager most likely would have confirmed it (a top manager did this when he got a similar question a few years ago and I think it was about TS3 in the TS2 days).
They know they don’t tell because it breaks there contract. You can’t really let people know about any future content until an official statement. That’s how it normally works for a lot of things not just video games. They know for sure they don’t get to make the call on when it comes out but they have the most understanding as to what’s going on. At the same time they won’t all agree to mention all the time that hey sims 4 will have a longer life. They can’t openly tell people that unless they are told they can mention it. People overly examine what they say because anything that they do say is what they can say. It’s all planned years in advance of what is going on.
But the top managers are different because they are the people who make the decisions. Therefore they are also the people who can decide when to tell a little more. Therefore such a manager a few years ago just confirmed that there was a new basegame under development when he was asked. He didn’t tell anything more about it though and the official announcement didn’t come until many months later.
But the devs are still very careful not to say anything at all directly. Sure they can say that “we will continue to make packs for TS4 until it doesn’t make sense anymore” because this won’t ever be a lie. The statement can be interpreted in many ways. But really it only says “we haven’t made the last pack for TS4 yet and we will continue to make packs for TS4 until our top managers in EA tell us to stop”.
It isn’t a fault made by the developers that simmers use wishful thinking to imagine that the statements from the developers should mean much more than the developers intended those statements to mean. Also the developers aren’t allowed to correct this wishful thinking because they can’t do that without saying more than they know or are allowed to say.
It's great you can travel between neighborhoods now, don't get me wrong, but it's in no way tied to this 'tiny neighborhoods with loadingscreens all over and uncontrollable sims at the other side' system Sims 4 has. In fact I prefer a modless Sims 3 situation myself if it's between those two. Because I've never felt stuck to one world for entire generations, even when I played without mods. I'm in my 21st generation and my sims have lived in seven different worlds and had adventures in X more. Playing in an actual world where I can control all my sims at all times is much more important to me.
Totally right. I just can't feel ''connected'' in TS4, it's the opposite. But in TS3 here I can feel connected.
Now they're calling it the "Next Sims Experiences"
http://simscommunity.info/2018/03/26/ea-to-announce-next-sims-experiences-at-ea-play/
I hope it's The Sims 5 and even more hope that it ain't 🐸🐸🐸🐸!
Well it does say next sim experiences not new so maybe more packs? Plus they said experiences maybe more then one. I don’t see how they already have a sims 5 demo ready for people to play before even being announced.