About complaining and constructive criticism. «12...Next Go

SimmerNickYT

I'm getting sick of the good old "constructive criticism". Every time someone complains about TS4 they get bashed by others who say that you have to give constructive criticism. I do believe that everyone should be respectful to the devs and guru's about their opinions on the game, as in: don't call them names and don't curse, etc. But I think that we as CONSUMERS have every right to complain and to have criticism that is not so constructive.

It's quite tiring to give constructive criticism and feeling like it's not going anywhere. This game is riddled with bugs and has so much less content, in quality and quantity. It's making me so mad when I can't play the game, because the interactions freeze for 8 hours. I have spent more than $200 worth of content and it's just not as good as expected.

What if I went to the bakery and bought a loaf of bread. I go home and it turns out that the bread is half-baked. I can't eat it now and I really wanted a slice! I go back to the bakery and I complain.
I don't give constructive criticism like: "Well, the bread has a nice taste, but I maybe don't have raw dough in it next time."
I say: "How could this happen! You have made so many great loaves for 18 years! You've done this before! I payed for this darnit!"
And then the baker (EA) says: "Welp, making bread is hard okay. We are doing everything we can. Don't blame me or the team. We have a budget. We have done our absolute best. The seeds on top look nice though, right?"
Maybe a little weird example, but you get my point right? It just doesn't make any sense.

Everyone has to realise that we pay actual MONEY for this half-baked game. And some even buy a better PC just to play this game more smoothly. If there was another bakery that offered that same loaf of bread, but fully baked, I would go there in an instant.
I don't think it's the devs fault that this game is a total mess. I don't blame the hard working team that still tried to make something out of it. I blame the profiteers in the office who made the mistakes.

nickibitsward

NickSims wrote: »

I'm getting sick of the good old "constructive criticism". Every time someone complains about TS4 they get bashed by others who say that you have to give constructive criticism. I do believe that everyone should be respectful to the devs and guru's about their opinions on the game, as in: don't call them names and don't curse, etc. But I think that we as CONSUMERS have every right to complain and to have criticism that is not so constructive.

It's quite tiring to give constructive criticism and feeling like it's not going anywhere. This game is riddled with bugs and has so much less content, in quality and quantity. It's making me so mad when I can't play the game, because the interactions freeze for 8 hours. I have spent more than $200 worth of content and it's just not as good as expected.

What if I went to the bakery and bought a loaf of bread. I go home and it turns out that the bread is half-baked. I can't eat it now and I really wanted a slice! I go back to the bakery and I complain.
I don't give constructive criticism like: "Well, the bread has a nice taste, but I maybe don't have raw dough in it next time."
I say: "How could this happen! You have made so many great loaves for 18 years! You've done this before! I payed for this darnit!"
And then the baker (EA) says: "Welp, making bread is hard okay. We are doing everything we can. Don't blame me or the team. We have a budget. We have done our absolute best. The seeds on top look nice though, right?"
Maybe a little weird example, but you get my point right? It just doesn't make any sense.

Everyone has to realise that we pay actual MONEY for this half-baked game. And some even buy a better PC just to play this game more smoothly. If there was another bakery that offered that same loaf of bread, but fully baked, I would go there in an instant.
I don't think it's the devs fault that this game is a total mess. I don't blame the hard working team that still tried to make something out of it. I blame the profiteers in the office who made the mistakes.

I agree, to a point.

I think the developers carry some responsibility for what we got in Sims 4. I think the "profiteers in the office" as you put it give the development team a budget and a completion date but the developers are the ones who know what they are doing, not the office. Who else would be responsible for the quality of the product and how the product works? Who else would decide what an SP or GP or EP would consist of? I doubt the office.

If you're going to do something, do it to the best of your ability. Otherwise, don't do it. No excuses. And there have been plenty of them, usually the "we gave you this so you can't have that or that or that".

I only bought the base game. It was enough for me to tell I wasn't going to like it and to see all that it was lacking. Some of what was missing, like toddlers, were eventually added back in but it can never be improved enough for me so I just don't buy any more for it.

king_of_simcity7

Too be honest, nothing has changed since 2014 and I am glad to have retired from it now. My main focus is no on more serious things such as UK related topics away from The Sims community and things that I have witnessed lately actually make this place look rather soft!

But yes everyone does have the right to complain if they are unhappy with something but things are changing and I feel that in the next two years things might be very different for The Sims community and maybe for the better

For now I stick with the TS3 community while taking a break from my more serious activity elsewhere

SimmerNickYT

nickibitsward wrote: »

NickSims wrote: »

I'm getting sick of the good old "constructive criticism". Every time someone complains about TS4 they get bashed by others who say that you have to give constructive criticism. I do believe that everyone should be respectful to the devs and guru's about their opinions on the game, as in: don't call them names and don't curse, etc. But I think that we as CONSUMERS have every right to complain and to have criticism that is not so constructive.

It's quite tiring to give constructive criticism and feeling like it's not going anywhere. This game is riddled with bugs and has so much less content, in quality and quantity. It's making me so mad when I can't play the game, because the interactions freeze for 8 hours. I have spent more than $200 worth of content and it's just not as good as expected.

What if I went to the bakery and bought a loaf of bread. I go home and it turns out that the bread is half-baked. I can't eat it now and I really wanted a slice! I go back to the bakery and I complain.
I don't give constructive criticism like: "Well, the bread has a nice taste, but I maybe don't have raw dough in it next time."
I say: "How could this happen! You have made so many great loaves for 18 years! You've done this before! I payed for this darnit!"
And then the baker (EA) says: "Welp, making bread is hard okay. We are doing everything we can. Don't blame me or the team. We have a budget. We have done our absolute best. The seeds on top look nice though, right?"
Maybe a little weird example, but you get my point right? It just doesn't make any sense.

Everyone has to realise that we pay actual MONEY for this half-baked game. And some even buy a better PC just to play this game more smoothly. If there was another bakery that offered that same loaf of bread, but fully baked, I would go there in an instant.
I don't think it's the devs fault that this game is a total mess. I don't blame the hard working team that still tried to make something out of it. I blame the profiteers in the office who made the mistakes.

I agree, to a point.

I think the developers carry some responsibility for what we got in Sims 4. I think the "profiteers in the office" as you put it give the development team a budget and a completion date but the developers are the ones who know what they are doing, not the office. Who else would be responsible for the quality of the product and how the product works? Who else would decide what an SP or GP or EP would consist of? I doubt the office.

If you're going to do something, do it to the best of your ability. Otherwise, don't do it. No excuses. And there have been plenty of them, usually the "we gave you this so you can't have that or that or that".

I only bought the base game. It was enough for me to tell I wasn't going to like it and to see all that it was lacking. Some of what was missing, like toddlers, were eventually added back in but it can never be improved enough for me so I just don't buy any more for it.

That is true. The developers do carry responsibility of course. I do think they have a hard time with the way that things are managed at EA and the tight budgets that they get.

SimmerNickYT

king_of_simcity7 wrote: »

Too be honest, nothing has changed since 2014 and I am glad to have retired from it now. My main focus is no on more serious things such as UK related topics away from The Sims community and things that I have witnessed lately actually make this place look rather soft!

But yes everyone does have the right to complain if they are unhappy with something but things are changing and I feel that in the next two years things might be very different for The Sims community and maybe for the better

For now I stick with the TS3 community while taking a break from my more serious activity elsewhere

I hope that everything will be different in two years! I'm glad that you were able to step away from TS4 community.

comicsforlife

the reason why constructive criticism is good is because it helps things get better
just criticism does nothing but make people feel bad

Bluefairy286

"waits for the thread to be locked*jk

I think it's fine to complain as long as you don't make your post personal or start attacking somebody.

It's stupid to be attacked for just asking "Why?" or expression how annoying you find something about how this game has been managed.

geoffreypa

comicsforlife wrote: »

the reason why constructive criticism is good is because it helps things get better
just criticism does nothing but make people feel bad

How does complaining about a bad product hurt people. This is the thing, we are at the point that saying bugs are beyond a joke or our beloved ep's are whittled down and it hurts someone. I LOVE the sims but I hate ea's Bad customer service and mediocre product, I have never personally attack someone But the supposed LOVERS do personally attack anyone that complains. As the OP said we payed for this game when its broken or doesn't live up to our expectations based on past sims titles or other games as reference, were made to feel like were in the wrong. Criticism of the game is not criticism of the players.
Its also not our job to find how to fix something I have lots of bugs in my game ( on a break atm and not buying any more), its the bug Team's job to come up with fixes not the paying customers
I am not attacking you or intending to make you feel Bad.

comicsforlife

geoffreypa wrote: »

comicsforlife wrote: »

the reason why constructive criticism is good is because it helps things get better
just criticism does nothing but make people feel bad

How does complaining about a bad product hurt people. This is the thing, we are at the point that saying bugs are beyond a joke or our beloved ep's are whittled down and it hurts someone. I LOVE the sims but I hate ea's Bad customer service and mediocre product, I have never personally attack someone But the supposed LOVERS do personally attack anyone that complains. As the OP said we payed for this game when its broken or doesn't live up to our expectations based on past sims titles or other games as reference, were made to feel like were in the wrong. Criticism of the game is not criticism of the players.
Its also not our job to find how to fix something I have lots of bugs in my game ( on a break atm and not buying any more), its the bug Team's job to come up with fixes not the paying customers
I am not attacking you or intending to make you feel Bad.

SimmerNickYT

geoffreypa wrote: »

comicsforlife wrote: »

the reason why constructive criticism is good is because it helps things get better
just criticism does nothing but make people feel bad

How does complaining about a bad product hurt people. This is the thing, we are at the point that saying bugs are beyond a joke or our beloved ep's are whittled down and it hurts someone. I LOVE the sims but I hate ea's Bad customer service and mediocre product, I have never personally attack someone But the supposed LOVERS do personally attack anyone that complains. As the OP said we payed for this game when its broken or doesn't live up to our expectations based on past sims titles or other games as reference, were made to feel like were in the wrong. Criticism of the game is not criticism of the players.
Its also not our job to find how to fix something I have lots of bugs in my game ( on a break atm and not buying any more), its the bug Team's job to come up with fixes not the paying customers
I am not attacking you or intending to make you feel Bad.

I totally agree with this. How does complaining make anyone feel bad? As long as you keep being respectful and don't target your complaint to the person you're complaining to.

comicsforlife

Constructive criticism is the process of offering valid and well-reasoned opinions about the work of others, usually involving both positive and negative comments, in a friendly manner rather than an oppositional one.
to express dissatisfaction or annoyance about a state of affairs or an event. is complaining
and if you don't tell people why you don't like something they can't fix it

geoffreypa

I have in the past done just that and a wall off people saying I dont have that in my game and so on is the result, when I've mentioned how I think said problems could be fixed Im literally told off.
Sorry some times a vent post like this is needed so we don't think were alone. I dont go anywhere near the happy play thread ( or any thread like it) because I know I dont belong there. I come to threads like this because it validates my feelings.

cactusjuice

comicsforlife wrote: »

Constructive criticism is the process of offering valid and well-reasoned opinions about the work of others,

But when they charge you money for that work and it's not good, when they charge you AAA game level money, and it's bad then you can complain

ScarletSimEater

Just saying "it sucks" doesn't give any direction as to what they could do to make things better. And some problems, like bugs, go way higher into the corporation than anyone reading this forum can reach. (Nobody likes bugs. But hiring more QA people costs money, and I doubt the sim gurus have access to the purse strings.)

The community facing people can help give us what we want, but we have to understand and be able to articulate what it is that we want. Knowing what gameplay elements we like and which ones we don't helps the team to better narrow down on what they do like. (This is why things like "I like how vampire powers allow a large degree of customization" or "I don't like how every expansion brings more things that grant happy moodlets, because those eventually outweigh everything else" are good. They're specific. Something like "we want preteens" doesn't say what would make preteens an interesting addition to the game.)

You don't have to gush over everything the sims team does. But if you just can't stand the game outright, stop buying it and pay attention to the things you do like. If you like the game enough and want to see things change, be clear and specific. That's the best way to get the game you want is to give clear, actionable steps that can be taken.

JoAnne65

I see a lot of constructive criticism here. In fact it’s often more clear to me what people’s issues are with the game, than why they love it or don’t share the issue. Seeing long posts filled with arguments and suggestions for improvement, followed by ‘well I love the game and if you don’t just don’t buy it/play it/move on’.

Bluefairy286

‘well I love the game and if you don’t just don’t buy it/play it/move on’

This is what I dislike the most, some of us have being playing this game since The Sims 1 and love it dearly, we just want to see it improve.
We dreamt about how The Sims could improve in the future, some of things that were mentioned were gradual aging, open world, go to work and school with your sims, diseases, be able to sit and cuddle your children and much more.

So of course we were all really disappointed and angry when EA took a step backwards and made this(in my opinion) seem like a game for only teenage girls.

king_of_simcity7

NickSims wrote: »

king_of_simcity7 wrote: »

Too be honest, nothing has changed since 2014 and I am glad to have retired from it now. My main focus is no on more serious things such as UK related topics away from The Sims community and things that I have witnessed lately actually make this place look rather soft!

But yes everyone does have the right to complain if they are unhappy with something but things are changing and I feel that in the next two years things might be very different for The Sims community and maybe for the better

For now I stick with the TS3 community while taking a break from my more serious activity elsewhere

I hope that everything will be different in two years! I'm glad that you were able to step away from TS4 community.

I actually come to The Sims community to get away from the other 'communities' (if you can call them that lol) and it is nice seeing people arguing over which game sold most at launch rather than how you are wrong for not supporting a certain bearded gentlemen...

king_of_simcity7

Bluefairy286 wrote: »

‘well I love the game and if you don’t just don’t buy it/play it/move on’

This is what I dislike the most, some of us have being playing this game since The Sims 1 and love it dearly, we just want to see it improve.
We dreamt about how The Sims could improve in the future, some of things that were mentioned were gradual aging, open world, go to work and school with your sims, diseases, be able to sit and cuddle your children and much more.

So of course we were all really disappointed and angry when EA took a step backwards and made this(in my opinion) seem like a game for only teenage girls.

Fair comment.

I think that a lot of players felt alienated by TS4. Many communities where shut out. For a long time the family players where neglected and even today many have never recovered even after the addition of toddlers last year.

Some communities have been thrown out permanently however. Most notably the builders

EA_Mage

Hi all,

I just wanted to jump in here and clarify a few things.

1. Complaining is allowed - if you do not like something, it is perfectly fine to say so as long as it is worded politely and follows the forums rules. Of course constructive criticism is appreciated, as this helps us see what the community members want and feel is important to them. Saying something like "I don't like the new feature X because I feel it is lacking in areas of Y and Z." is better for the game and community than saying "I don't like it!!! Fix it!!!".
   • If someone disagrees with your complaint and does so in a way that breaks the forums rules, please don't hesitate to report this post: Flag - Report
     
2. Derailing threads to make a complaint is not OK - if a discussion has been opened specifically to discuss positive aspects of the game (i.e. "Let us know why you like the Jungle Adventure") it is not OK to start discussion why you don't like it. This has nothing to do with the fact that you are disagreeing. It's purely not appropriate for that specific thread.

Thanks,
-Mage

king_of_simcity7

EA_Mage wrote: »

Hi all,

I just wanted to jump in here and clarify a few things.

1. Complaining is allowed - if you do not like something, it is perfectly fine to say so as long as it is worded politely and follows the forums rules. Of course constructive criticism is appreciated, as this helps us see what the community members want and feel is important to them. Saying something like "I don't like the new feature X because I feel it is lacking in areas of Y and Z." is better for the game and community than saying "I don't like it!!! Fix it!!!".
   • If someone disagrees with your complaint and does so in a way that breaks the forums rules, please don't hesitate to report this post: Flag - Report
     
2. Derailing threads to make a complaint is not OK - if a discussion has been opened specifically to discuss positive aspects of the game (i.e. "Let us know why you like the Jungle Adventure") it is not OK to start discussion why you don't like it. This has nothing to do with the fact that you are disagreeing. It's purely not appropriate for that specific thread.

Thanks,
-Mage

Thanks for helping clear things up

JoAnne65

So if a discussion has been opened specifically to discuss negative aspects of the game (like "Let us know why you don’t like multitasking") it’s not OK to start explaining why you do like it?

EA_Mage

JoAnne65 wrote: »

So if a discussion has been opened specifically to discuss negative aspects of the game (like "Let us know why you don’t like multitasking") it’s not OK to start explaining why you do like it?

Same logic can be applied yes - it would be considered derailing.

I do want to add, constructive debate highlighting positives and negatives is the aim for the forums, but yes if someone wants to make a purely negative feedback or positive feedback thread that is perfectly allowed.

-Mage

SimmerNickYT

JoAnne65 wrote: »

I see a lot of constructive criticism here. In fact it’s often more clear to me what people’s issues are with the game, than why they love it or don’t share the issue. Seeing long posts filled with arguments and suggestions for improvement, followed by ‘well I love the game and if you don’t just don’t buy it/play it/move on’.

There is definitely a lot of constructive criticism on the Forums here, which is great and I do agree that constructive criticism is the right way to go. And it does help get a strong point across. But outside of the forums, like Twitter or YouTube for example, you can't write paragraphs on just making one point, where I do see more complaining. And then there are people who comment on them saying: "Don't complain, they did their best, bla...bla..." Also often followed by: "well I love the game and if you don’t just don’t buy it/play it/move on." like you said. Which I hate when people say, because we want to see a better Sims game.
I don't feel like there has been done a lot with the constructive criticism on the Forums. Like yeah we got toddlers and more family play and other things. But we almost have no building freedom, many bugs, not enough quality EPs, too small worlds, etc. All the things that were better in previous iterations. And THEN is when I feel like I have to complain to feel like I'm being heard and to make a point that I'm unsatisfied on certain points of the game that could be and have been way better.

SimmerNickYT

king_of_simcity7 wrote: »

Bluefairy286 wrote: »

‘well I love the game and if you don’t just don’t buy it/play it/move on’

This is what I dislike the most, some of us have being playing this game since The Sims 1 and love it dearly, we just want to see it improve.
We dreamt about how The Sims could improve in the future, some of things that were mentioned were gradual aging, open world, go to work and school with your sims, diseases, be able to sit and cuddle your children and much more.

So of course we were all really disappointed and angry when EA took a step backwards and made this(in my opinion) seem like a game for only teenage girls.

Fair comment.

I think that a lot of players felt alienated by TS4. Many communities where shut out. For a long time the family players where neglected and even today many have never recovered even after the addition of toddlers last year.

Some communities have been thrown out permanently however. Most notably the builders

Builders have really been left out... Build mode is so watered down and could have so much more small effecient changes.

SimmerNickYT

EA_Mage wrote: »

Hi all,

I just wanted to jump in here and clarify a few things.

1. Complaining is allowed - if you do not like something, it is perfectly fine to say so as long as it is worded politely and follows the forums rules. Of course constructive criticism is appreciated, as this helps us see what the community members want and feel is important to them. Saying something like "I don't like the new feature X because I feel it is lacking in areas of Y and Z." is better for the game and community than saying "I don't like it!!! Fix it!!!".
   • If someone disagrees with your complaint and does so in a way that breaks the forums rules, please don't hesitate to report this post: Flag - Report
     
2. Derailing threads to make a complaint is not OK - if a discussion has been opened specifically to discuss positive aspects of the game (i.e. "Let us know why you like the Jungle Adventure") it is not OK to start discussion why you don't like it. This has nothing to do with the fact that you are disagreeing. It's purely not appropriate for that specific thread.

Thanks,
-Mage

Thank you for clearing things up!

simfreaks

The Sims 4 team works themselves to death, which is one of the reasons they have lost some valuable team members (and an overrated one) over the last few years. Overworked and underpaid for the amount of time they spend their IMHO. Most are very passionate about their work and I think their work often goes unappreciated. We can sit here and judge the outcome of their work, and everything always has room for improvement, but I would say it's obvious to me how much time has been put into the game especially from an animation, programming and object programming standpoint. I also know that certain outside influences that don't necessarily fall under the "team" category can often force bad ideas like the Sims 2 "Aspiration" onto the team.