@Erpe though I think it's pretty reasonable to believe that lack of sandbox also took as a factor for having veteran players putting the game back on the shelf or never to play, and it still is a popular complaint up to now. Frustration happens when you realize what customization you loved doing isn't possible: to change/add/remove the layout of lots, to build or change apartments/skyrises. It's one of the reasons, along with what I agree on you: lack of challenges is what driven the game to be and remain shittier.
I don’t even really know what people mean when they say “lack of sandbox” because to me “sandbox” just means “without goals or challenges”? I can understand that this is what simmers maybe want if they mainly just want to build, decorate and dress up sims and just want them to act on their own a little before they make the next house and a family for that house too. But it is just not at all what I need myself!
Customization isn’t for me because I am a perfectionist when and if I do such things. I tried it a little in TS2 but soon realized that I couldn’t make sims that really looked like myself or people I know - anyway. Now I know that the reason is that EA wants to target the Sims games mainly at young teen girls who can’t be expected to have neither much patience nor artistic skills at all. So those girls would most likely just become angry with the game if all their sims looked terrible for those reasons. So the Sims games are all designed such that it is quite impossible to make ugly looking sims or sims whos eyes aren’t at the same vertical level or whos faces aren’t symmetrical even though such asymmetric faces exist in the real world. There are other limitations too. But to a perfectionist like me it isn’t satisfying at all to make sims who don’t look like I intended anyway. So I don’t waste my time trying to do it anyway. It is much better for me to just get it done in no time such that I can concentrate on other things instead
@Erpe though I think it's pretty reasonable to believe that lack of sandbox also took as a factor for having veteran players putting the game back on the shelf or never to play, and it still is a popular complaint up to now. Frustration happens when you realize what customization you loved doing isn't possible: to change/add/remove the layout of lots, to build or change apartments/skyrises. It's one of the reasons, along with what I agree on you: lack of challenges is what driven the game to be and remain shittier.
I don’t even really know what people mean when they say “lack of sandbox” because to me “sandbox” just means “without goals or challenges”? I can understand that this is what simmers maybe want if they mainly just want to build, decorate and dress up sims and just want them to act on their own a little before they make the next house and a family for that house too. But it is just not at all what I need myself!
Customization isn’t for me because I am a perfectionist when and if I do such things. I tried it a little in TS2 but soon realized that I couldn’t make sims that really looked like myself or people I know - anyway. Now I know that the reason is that EA wants to target the Sims games mainly at young teen girls who can’t be expected to have neither much patience nor artistic skills at all. So those girls would most likely just become angry with the game if all their sims looked terrible for those reasons. So the Sims games are all designed such that it is quite impossible to make ugly looking sims or sims whos eyes aren’t at the same vertical level or whos faces aren’t symmetrical even though such asymmetric faces exist in the real world. There are other limitations too. But to a perfectionist like me it isn’t satisfying at all to make sims who don’t look like I intended anyway. So I don’t waste my time trying to do it anyway. It is much better for me to just get it done in no time such that I can concentrate on other things instead
I see it commonly used to mean a lack of customization options.
I do think there are a lot of players that fall into a creative group (even teens)
1. builders (more freedom ans assets build buy, probably would use/like CASt, terrain tools, separate foundation heights)
2. storymakers (The group that tends to have an idea in their head and act it out through the sims, probably enjoy more open ended goals, less step by step parties and aspirations, more traits per sims that are more impactful or personality points, favorites, turn ons & offs, lasting consequences/character building, skills, possibly like occult's as well depending on their play style, basically tons of options in live mode)
3. sims creators (create a sim features, ts4 cas push pull system, CASt again, more categories for each clothing types to have full customization of outfits)
Plenty of teenage girls have artistic skill, and many also have the will to be creative, I mean the sims team markets stuff like the new cas system and was supper excited about the color options in pets, so ea recognizes these options as desired content. For those who don't want to they use the gallery and probably still like more options because they benefit from those who do create having more tools.
As for sandbox games:
They lack game goals, but that doesn't mean lacking challenge they wouldn't be very entertaining for people. I set my own goals to meet that can be just as challenging or even more so than a game defined one, therefore wanting a sandbox game does not mean wanting no challenge it just means without preset goals or challenges. I think sandbox tends to add to replay-ability personally, because sandbox games aren't nearly as linear in story progression or play options each time one plays it can be entirely different from before.
Think table top RPGs. The group chooses it's challenges. The game has challenging aspects to over come but what the players do is defined entirely by them. If they decide to just stay in the tavern/safe-house forever and not do any of the challenges they can, but many don't because they want to have fun.
Now I know some people don't like setting their own goals so obviously sandbox options wouldn't be as ideal.
You know.... it's been what, 3 years... and we are still having these discussions about the disappointment of what TS4 is and what it will never be.
The OP makes excellent points about the game as a whole. And after 3 years, shouldn't the game have some life to it? I mean, it's supposed to be a life simulator right? A life simulator that can't distinguish between teens and young adults (who look just alike). And at release omitted an entire life stage. That still baffles me, no toddlers... until the masses demanded it and backed EA into a corner. Weather that was a strategic move on their part or just plain stupidity, it was a glaring mistake. They may have given you Toddlers for free...but everyone who bought the kids room stuff pack ended up paying for them in the end.
It's really not going to get any better. They will keep pushing out all the EP's, SP's, GP's, with mismatched content and empty game play. But no matter how much Stuff they push at everyone...it's never going to make the game alive and full. It's just EA's way of cashing in on the good name of The Sims and not really caring weather or not the actual content is good. That's the part that angers me.
I'm glad the OP did this thread....it means there are still people who care enough to ask EA to step up. Although I do not feel TS4 can be fixed, it's pretty much set in stone with its limitation. I would hope, if there is another Sims game in the future...it will be the Sims game we were all expecting... and not some empty shell that they fill with unplayable Stuff.
I think ages ago I made a post that I felt the Sims had various different elements to it. For example, some players just wanna simulate life. Other players treat Sims like an RPG in the sense it's interesting for them to see what different sims with different personalities will do or desire. Some others want sandbox exploration, others just want to build, and some "build" but with people or clothing.
Of those, it really only feels like Sims 4 caters to the Create-a-Sim fans and the simulation fans. Sure, we can wear a cute skirt and we can do laundry....but the builders are constantly upset that building feels more limited. The RPG fans are complaining all Sims feel the same. And the sandbox fans rightfully point out there's simply nothing to do.
I fear though that much of our complaints are for nothing. Look at Star Wars Battlefront 2. They STILL tease the idea of sticking to the lootboxes. For EA, the bottom line is money. This is a company that has focused so much on money, they've forgotten the purpose of every job or service is to give back to society. You provide a thing or a service that society thanks you for and get money in return. Some companies understand this, others forget the value of the product/service itself and focus on making more money for less work.
SPs sell because they're cheap and half the community says "it's just $10." SPs have replaced the second EP entirely while GPs act as the old EPs. Overall, where we once got 2 EPs and 2 SPs per year, we now get 1 EP, 2 GPs and 4 SPs for the same pricetag overall, except the work they provide making them absolutely feels like less. The EPs have been the most disappointing of the franchise, the SPs are never going to be more than SPs, and even the GPs have been hit and miss.
As sad as it is to say, companies like these only understand money, and even though many facets of a typical Sims game are being neglected or feel neglected in about 70% of their overall packs, we see little evidence this will change. SPs continue to churn out once per economic quarter like clockwork, EPs continue to release once a year with sub-par reception, and the GPs are - for many people - the only thing to hold out any hope for. Doesn't matter. People still buy.
@Erpe though I think it's pretty reasonable to believe that lack of sandbox also took as a factor for having veteran players putting the game back on the shelf or never to play, and it still is a popular complaint up to now. Frustration happens when you realize what customization you loved doing isn't possible: to change/add/remove the layout of lots, to build or change apartments/skyrises. It's one of the reasons, along with what I agree on you: lack of challenges is what driven the game to be and remain shittier.
I don’t even really know what people mean when they say “lack of sandbox” because to me “sandbox” just means “without goals or challenges”? I can understand that this is what simmers maybe want if they mainly just want to build, decorate and dress up sims and just want them to act on their own a little before they make the next house and a family for that house too. But it is just not at all what I need myself!
Customization isn’t for me because I am a perfectionist when and if I do such things. I tried it a little in TS2 but soon realized that I couldn’t make sims that really looked like myself or people I know - anyway. Now I know that the reason is that EA wants to target the Sims games mainly at young teen girls who can’t be expected to have neither much patience nor artistic skills at all. So those girls would most likely just become angry with the game if all their sims looked terrible for those reasons. So the Sims games are all designed such that it is quite impossible to make ugly looking sims or sims whos eyes aren’t at the same vertical level or whos faces aren’t symmetrical even though such asymmetric faces exist in the real world. There are other limitations too. But to a perfectionist like me it isn’t satisfying at all to make sims who don’t look like I intended anyway. So I don’t waste my time trying to do it anyway. It is much better for me to just get it done in no time such that I can concentrate on other things instead
I see it commonly used to mean a lack of customization options.
I do think there are a lot of players that fall into a creative group (even teens)
1. builders (more freedom ans assets build buy, probably would use/like CASt, terrain tools, separate foundation heights)
2. storymakers (The group that tends to have an idea in their head and act it out through the sims, probably enjoy more open ended goals, less step by step parties and aspirations, more traits per sims that are more impactful or personality points, favorites, turn ons & offs, lasting consequences/character building, skills, possibly like occult's as well depending on their play style, basically tons of options in live mode)
3. sims creators (create a sim features, ts4 cas push pull system, CASt again, more categories for each clothing types to have full customization of outfits)
Plenty of teenage girls have artistic skill, and many also have the will to be creative, I mean the sims team markets stuff like the new cas system and was supper excited about the color options in pets, so ea recognizes these options as desired content. For those who don't want to they use the gallery and probably still like more options because they benefit from those who do create having more tools.
As for sandbox games:
They lack game goals, but that doesn't mean lacking challenge they wouldn't be very entertaining for people. I set my own goals to meet that can be just as challenging or even more so than a game defined one, therefore wanting a sandbox game does not mean wanting no challenge it just means without preset goals or challenges. I think sandbox tends to add to replay-ability personally, because sandbox games aren't nearly as linear in story progression or play options each time one plays it can be entirely different from before.
Think table top RPGs. The group chooses it's challenges. The game has challenging aspects to over come but what the players do is defined entirely by them. If they decide to just stay in the tavern/safe-house forever and not do any of the challenges they can, but many don't because they want to have fun.
Now I know some people don't like setting their own goals so obviously sandbox options wouldn't be as ideal.
The expresssion “sandbox game” seems to have changed meaning a little because it now often is seen as just meaning an open world game. But if it is open world that people miss then I think that they should say that directly instead.
I agree more with the following definition that I found: ”It's like little children in a park playing with their toys in the sand, doing whatever they want, along specific limits (the child must take into account gravity, friction a.s.o. when building something).
Likewise, a sandbox game allows the player to build whatever it pleases her, within the rules, in order to achieve a highscore or something - or maybe not, the player may play just for the sake of it ...”
As sad as it is to say, companies like these only understand money, and even though many facets of a typical Sims game are being neglected or feel neglected in about 70% of their overall packs, we see little evidence this will change. SPs continue to churn out once per economic quarter like clockwork, EPs continue to release once a year with sub-par reception, and the GPs are - for many people - the only thing to hold out any hope for. Doesn't matter. People still buy.
Yep... This Exactly. I won't buy from them anymore because of this.
A new pack brings a few moments of initial joy. That is, until l I realize how shallow the game play still is. It's a disheartening cycle. I keep posting here in hopes that the developers will see, that they'll get it.
TS4 is truly beautiful. The environs are progressively imaginative and interesting to look at. Yet, in a series called The Sims, the actual Sims should always come first and foremost. Until and unless the Sims finally become the priority for TS4, it will never feel quite like a Sims game. This is something that should have been worked out before launch, not as paying customers continue to wait and wait. It's so disappointing to see a beloved series take this turn to touting the next great thing. Meanwhile, the foundation of the very Sims themselves is still lacking.
This statement is how I feel whenever a new pack is announced.
They released a pack showcasing skyscrapers and didn't let us place elevators or make our own apartment buildings.
A Restaurant pack where you can't be the chef.
A family themed pack that didn't fix the object babies or the teens that look & act just like the YA's & Adults do.
A pack that was focused on 'going to work' came with only 3 (repetitive) jobs.
One that has cats & dogs and nothing else.. after always getting a full Pets pack in the past!
I feel as they just seem to always miss the mark with TS4. I don't know what they could do to fix ts4. There were so many fun, quirky aspects to The Sims, now it's all watered down and everyone is always smiling on a sunny day all the time. How boring.
Please Bring BackToddlers, Realistic Teenagers and Create a World.
Make the Sims (4) Great Again<3
A new pack brings a few moments of initial joy. That is, until l I realize how shallow the game play still is. It's a disheartening cycle. I keep posting here in hopes that the developers will see, that they'll get it.
TS4 is truly beautiful. The environs are progressively imaginative and interesting to look at. Yet, in a series called The Sims, the actual Sims should always come first and foremost. Until and unless the Sims finally become the priority for TS4, it will never feel quite like a Sims game. This is something that should have been worked out before launch, not as paying customers continue to wait and wait. It's so disappointing to see a beloved series take this turn to touting the next great thing. Meanwhile, the foundation of the very Sims themselves is still lacking.
This statement is how I feel whenever a new pack is announced.
They released a pack showcasing skyscrapers and didn't let us place elevators or make our own apartment buildings.
A Restaurant pack where you can't be the chef.
A family themed pack that didn't fix the object babies or the teens that look & act just like the YA's & Adults do.
A pack that was focused on 'going to work' came with only 3 (repetitive) jobs.
One that has cats & dogs and nothing else.. after always getting a full Pets pack in the past!
I feel as they just seem to always miss the mark with TS4. I don't know what they could do to fix ts4. There were so many fun, quirky aspects to The Sims, now it's all watered down and everyone is always smiling on a sunny day all the time. How boring.
As an extra example of moving backwards (content/price): TS2 apartment life... you had witches (nicely fleshed out if I may add), the ability to build apartments, visiting neighbors without loading screens, a large neighborhood, roommates, etc... It's an expansion pack released 10(!) years ago and it outshines City Living in many ways. I enjoy playing City Living but it lacks in so many areas compared to a game released such a long time ago. We get so little content yet we pay so much money for those packs... You can make comparisons for all of the released packs with the previous installments and see how we're sort of being ripped off here.
As a recovering TS2-addict I'm also able to see how they're stepping backwards instead of forwards on many occasions. Don't get me wrong, I'm actually one of those who enjoy TS4 very much. I applaud them for trying some new things but...don't throw out the old if it is still good.
They released a pack showcasing skyscrapers and didn't let us place elevators or make our own apartment buildings.
A Restaurant pack where you can't be the chef.
A family themed pack that didn't fix the object babies or the teens that look & act just like the YA's & Adults do.
A pack that was focused on 'going to work' came with only 3 (repetitive) jobs.
One that has cats & dogs and nothing else.. after always getting a full Pets pack in the past!
I feel as they just seem to always miss the mark with TS4. I don't know what they could do to fix ts4. There were so many fun, quirky aspects to The Sims, now it's all watered down and everyone is always smiling on a sunny day all the time. How boring.
This is pretty spot on with how I feel, too.
The issue is, even with the 'better' packs, there is nobody at this studio which is spearheading thinking outside of the box. It feels like they are always scrambling to catch up to the predecessors, and run out of breath before they are able to breathe in new life into whatever it is they are setting out to do.
@Tremayne4260 The Sims Medieval and the World Adventures weren’t sandbox games and they were some of the most popular games and EPs! I will admit that for simmers who mainly just want to build and watch their sims act on their own a sandbox game would be ideal though. But I am not at all that kind of simmer and I don’t believe that the majority of simmers are either!
The reason why I stopped playing TS4 was very different because I like challenges and I would have stopped playing the Sims Freeplay years ago if that game had been just a sandbox game without challenges too. So why did I stop playing TS4?
The reasons were other things:
1. TS4 was too slow for me. Things took too long time and I hated the waiting times which mainly were caused by the autonomy and the multitasking. But also the 14 days waiting time until my sim had a change to be promoted again and that my sim had to just wait for hours or even days in another neighborhood before some collectible could be ready to be picked up.
2. I am not a builder and I didn’t care about building or decorating.
3. I am mainly a simmer who like to control my sims completely. So it annoyed me when they waisted huge amounts of time doing things that I didn’t want them to do at all.
4. I hated the extreme focus on eternal happiness which for me just was annoying. I wanted challenges and consequences of my sims’ actions instead.
So no! I don’t want a complete sandbox game at all! I just want a challenging game where I can control my sims and where every action has consequences instead of a game where I only can watch my sims act on their own and forget insults or infidelity in a split second!
So I hope that EA soon will release another Sims game which is much more a game for me than TS4 which for me is much worse than its predecessors were!
I use the term "Sandbox" to set the game apart from a game like say "Elder Scrolls: Skyrim". Ok, yes I have played Skyrim a lot, but doing the same thing over and over again can be boring. I'm not saying that there shouldn't be challenges or limited goals (like the Life Time Aspirations in Sims 2), but the means to achieve said goal should not be the same actions over and over again (like say the Doctor Career in GTW). There should be multiple ways to achieve the goal. And there should be consequences and/or rewards for certain actions. Sims 2 did this wonderfully with chance cards in the jobs. I would love to see this return again. And I do agree with you Erpe that the reactions the Sims themselves have in Sims 4 is not nearly as fun as they are in Sims 2 or 3.
World Adventures is an EP for Sims 3, not a standalone game. I have no problem with World Adventures and in fact have fun playing in the different worlds. I still haven't completed all the quests, but some day I will. And it adds a different element to the game which is great.
To me The Sims Medieval is a spin off of the original game. It has a different feel than playing Sims 3 itself and yes, I do play it when the mood strikes. As a matter of fact it was the reason I bought Sims 3 in the first place.
Very good points though.
Second Star to the Right and Straight on 'til Morning.
@Tremayne4260 The Sims Medieval and the World Adventures weren’t sandbox games and they were some of the most popular games and EPs! I will admit that for simmers who mainly just want to build and watch their sims act on their own a sandbox game would be ideal though. But I am not at all that kind of simmer and I don’t believe that the majority of simmers are either!
The reason why I stopped playing TS4 was very different because I like challenges and I would have stopped playing the Sims Freeplay years ago if that game had been just a sandbox game without challenges too. So why did I stop playing TS4?
The reasons were other things:
1. TS4 was too slow for me. Things took too long time and I hated the waiting times which mainly were caused by the autonomy and the multitasking. But also the 14 days waiting time until my sim had a change to be promoted again and that my sim had to just wait for hours or even days in another neighborhood before some collectible could be ready to be picked up.
2. I am not a builder and I didn’t care about building or decorating.
3. I am mainly a simmer who like to control my sims completely. So it annoyed me when they waisted huge amounts of time doing things that I didn’t want them to do at all.
4. I hated the extreme focus on eternal happiness which for me just was annoying. I wanted challenges and consequences of my sims’ actions instead.
So no! I don’t want a complete sandbox game at all! I just want a challenging game where I can control my sims and where every action has consequences instead of a game where I only can watch my sims act on their own and forget insults or infidelity in a split second!
So I hope that EA soon will release another Sims game which is much more a game for me than TS4 which for me is much worse than its predecessors were!
I use the term "Sandbox" to set the game apart from a game like say "Elder Scrolls: Skyrim". Ok, yes I have played Skyrim a lot, but doing the same thing over and over again can be boring. I'm not saying that there shouldn't be challenges or limited goals (like the Life Time Aspirations in Sims 2), but the means to achieve said goal should not be the same actions over and over again (like say the Doctor Career in GTW). There should be multiple ways to achieve the goal. And there should be consequences and/or rewards for certain actions. Sims 2 did this wonderfully with chance cards in the jobs. I would love to see this return again. And I do agree with you Erpe that the reactions the Sims themselves have in Sims 4 is not nearly as fun as they are in Sims 2 or 3.
World Adventures is an EP for Sims 3, not a standalone game. I have no problem with World Adventures and in fact have fun playing in the different worlds. I still haven't completed all the quests, but some day I will. And it adds a different element to the game which is great.
To me The Sims Medieval is a spin off of the original game. It has a different feel than playing Sims 3 itself and yes, I do play it when the mood strikes. As a matter of fact it was the reason I bought Sims 3 in the first place.
Very good points though.
We seem to agree much more anyway than I had expected
I never got started with Skyrim and I don’t even remember the reason anymore. But it likely was that I had played its predecessor Oblivion quite a lot and needed some other type of game at the time.
Still I think that we shouldn’t just use the expression “sandbox game” just to say that a game has an open world or that it isn’t completely RPG because there are many other types of games too and because the expression “sandbox game” IMO should be reserved for games that like children playing in a physical sandbox are only played with no other purpose than just to try different things to see what happens or if we really can build those “sand castles” that we are trying to build. A sandbox game is for me a game without any other goals than the goals that we make up for ourselves.
The Sims Medieval was for me a RPG game and not a sandbox game because it was mainly about doing premade quests. But it was a very good game and I strongly prefer this type of games over pure sandbox games. Also when we are speaking about Sims games which for me should more be a mix between sandbox and RPG (with good quests that we can try if we like - but still games that we also just can play in other ways if we prefer this).
To beg EA for something like this is like to beg the thief to stop robbing people
Or to ask your neighbor to take a few days off from work to do free work for you in your house or your garden
EA doesn't react to requests here because EA’s problem isn’t to sell more games to the forum users who likely will buy almost everything anyway (and are too few to matter much among the total number of customers) because EA’s main problem instead is to make the game more attractive to casual gamers who play games much less than we do and only buy games sometimes at random when they see something interesting. Such casual gamers can be found everywhere and they clearly matter many times more to the sales numbers.
So there isn’t alas much that we can do to change the way EA makes the games.
@Erpe though I think it's pretty reasonable to believe that lack of sandbox also took as a factor for having veteran players putting the game back on the shelf or never to play, and it still is a popular complaint up to now. Frustration happens when you realize what customization you loved doing isn't possible: to change/add/remove the layout of lots, to build or change apartments/skyrises. It's one of the reasons, along with what I agree on you: lack of challenges is what driven the game to be and remain shittier.
I don’t even really know what people mean when they say “lack of sandbox” because to me “sandbox” just means “without goals or challenges”? I can understand that this is what simmers maybe want if they mainly just want to build, decorate and dress up sims and just want them to act on their own a little before they make the next house and a family for that house too. But it is just not at all what I need myself!
Sandbox is a metaphor, from I understand, to sculpting and building castles to however your heart contents. In other ways to put it: Your imagination is the only limit. I don't see as a contradiction to challenges, but it's not necessarily strictly tied with a restriction to complete goals. A sandbox doesn't deliberately exclude challenges, and it actually can hold weight with challenges in it. I don't see how challenges stop it from being defined a sandbox.
Minecraft is a great example of a sandbox, yet it still has challenges If and whenever a player chooses to play survival mode rather creative, which adds the character the player is controlling with a health/hp bar and hostile mobs (also know as monsters) to defend themselves from what the objective to mode lives up implies: to survive. It even proves that a game can carry both aspects well simultaneously without each other conflicting: You have a game (regarding the survival mode only) that carries challenges, and yet it still is open-ended game without any explicit goal, so it's up to player to make up and create their own goal, equivalently to how a simmer after creating a sim can bring any story, any house home, a town, a career, a family for their pixelate person that they're aren't limited to what the game directs them to do. Sure there are boses, but the game doesn't stressed on defeating that big monster so you can ignore that objective all together or just continue doing whatever the player want after defeating the dragon/wither. You can build, create, destroy, change anything, but of course you have to work for those things to obtain necessary tools and equipment (which is what I call a challenge), but that doesn't mean it makes it no longer a sandbox. It's the technical and restrictions that crosses out the sandbox term from the list. If the player had their sim work out through grinding or any other obstacles to gain the ability to build skyscrapers from the very ground off from the very scratch, now that's a different and I would without arguing consider being a sandbox aspect.
However, The Sims 4 fails to provide any of that. It isn't a challenging game, nor a sandbox. There are little intentionally implement risk (not talking about buggy gameplay that brings forth overstacking happy fatal moodlets) for your sims to die from, there are no in-depth/expanded/dynamic tools for builders that are begging for those to build with and word creating tools are absent.
To keep it short:
* When simmers are asking for challenges, I think they are referring to the difficulty and trials their sims have to face through their lifes.
* When simmers are asking for sandbox, I think they are referring to tools themselves wish to be handed to, from the developers, to be able to manipulate the lifes of their sims in versatile means and/or build complex and more unique buildings/houses/facilities/etc.
Thank you all for your posts. Some of you do not understand some things that I said, so I will try to answer.
For me a sandbox game is not that you do not have goals at all. You could have goals... or not, you can do this... or that. You can choose what you do because there are not limitations. That's the point of all this: to not have restrictions and limitations . I don’t want the game to force me to do something, I want to play as freely as possible. I want to have control of anything I want and change it.
A sandbox it is not about how many objects we can get. That's the easiest way. It doesn't matter if we have 10 or 1000 different chairs. It is about what you can do with them. I really don't need 5000 clutter objects if I can't interact with them. Don't give me 10 jobs, give me a tool to make a job setting the money to get in each level, the text to send, etc. All those jobs like painter, writer, etc., those just makes the sim to leave... somewhere... give money, send some texts, and they all feel the same. They just differenciate in some aspects that can be changed with an "easy" tool.
TS4 is beautiful, indeed it is. Sims are very realistic, it is great… but boring. No legacy, no story progression, no control over anything, no customization of the world or any tiny aspect of it, you can’t customize the color or style of objects completely, just a few options there. You can’t.
Sims are almost always smiling, everything is so perfect, accessible and quick. It fits in a society where everything is at hand. You need food? OK, click on the fridge and get it by magic. You want to go to the gym? OK, just use your phone while sitting on the sofa and magically be teletransported there without even getting out of the house or take a car. You need to order pieces to upgrade something? Click on the computer and receive them magically in your inventory. The other day I did it and my sim didn’t even go to the computer.
I need something like: “Yesterday I was at home and when I was about to cook some dinner I realized that I ran out of tomatoes. I took my bike and went to the grocery store to buy some. There was a robbery in the grocery store and I thought it would be better if I just went back home and order some pizza. I was waiting for some time when I decided to check the front gate when I saw the delivery man running away while my dog was barking angrily at him. The pizza was on the floor but inside the cartoon box. I tried to get it but my dog was quicker and began eating it. It was late to order more pizza, so I went to bed hoping the next day would be much better.” That’s funny, that’s a story to live, these situations are not improvised or forced, they just flow. This story is not possible in TS4 because: there is no grocery store, or bike, you can get tomatoes magically from the fridge, there are no robberies…. You can’t live that. See what I mean? I don’t need a thousand clutter objects, please just make these stories possible.
San Myshuno is the best example for a non-sandbox game. Apartments are very restricted. You can’t build an apartment. You can’t distribute space between apartments, they are static. You can’t change some traits in apartments. Some objects and spaces in an apartment are static and can’t be changed. For example, the Spire apartment has a beautiful view but I don’t live there because the hall entrance with the elevator cannot be moved and it is at the side of the apartment with the best view. You can’t, you can’t, you can’t…
Isn’t it possible to do it? Yes, it’s possible, but it’s easier to restrict it than coding it properly to avoid bugs and test it thoroughly. With TS3 many modders fixed dozens or even hundreds of bugs that EA/maxis, or whoever, didn’t do at all. The game was ended and left by EA/maxis with a huge amount of bugs which modders continued fixing. If I were EA/maxis I should feel ashamed of my work. Fixes are possible, but it is easier to move to another game once you got the money and let others fix the bugs for you. You know The Sims customers are very loyal and many would buy the product anyway.
What’s the point of no having story progression in a life simulator? There was one day when my Sim was walking down Sunset Valley in TS3 in the middle of the night. It shocked me that in one house there was light in one room and I could see through the window that a sim was talking to another. I went to the house where a friend lived hoping he was awake or at least to see what was he doing. He must had been sleeping or out because lights were off. That’s what I mean with: a world ALIVE. I remember the amazing feeling I got that time walking in the night in Sunset Valley watching the world changing and living without my control. Live was there in front of you, sims were independent and progressed at the same time you did, with or without you. In the TS4 anything outside your current loading screen does not exist.
Customization was incredible in TS3. CAW was very difficult at first, but with some patience I manage to create beautiful specific worlds for different stories: a City plagued with insane and evil ghosts and vampires next to a neighbourhood where “normal” people lived with the constant threat of the previous, I completely changed Sunset Valley, Twinbrook and Bridgeport with all the community lots and objects available in all expansions. You could imagine anything and implement it according to a story. Now… you can’t, you can’t, you can’t.
Why I’m still venting? Because I L O V E The Sims. I do not want this game to end. If I didn’t, I wouldn’t even bother on posting here. Even if this post seems to be written in an angry mood, it is not. I want simgurus to read it and learn what we want. I think maybe a thousand vents like this would make them realize that a change should come urgently in order to keep this game alive.
Serve this post as positive one. Please, whoever is reading this post with the power to make a difference and change the game: do something. We love The Sims.
@DragonCat159@mcorral I found a good definition of a sandbox game on https://www.techopedia.com/definition/3952/sandbox-gaming and I think that especially the following is important: ”Sandbox games can include structured elements – such as mini-games, tasks, submissions and storylines – that may be ignored by gamers. In fact, the sandbox game's nonlinear nature creates storyline challenges for game designers. For this reason, tasks and side missions usually follow a progression, where tasks are unlocked upon successful task completion.”
I was just a little surprised though that they mention Assassin’s Creed and Grand Theft Auto as typical sandbox games.
I’ve been playing The Sims for a long time since The Sims 2. I think it is the game I’ve played the longest time. I love, The Sims, but I’m sad watching the game getting into the direction it is taking. It’s not improving, but getting worse.
I don’t post in these forums much, I really don’t know about the sales of the company. I just chat with friends who like playing The Sims and I think that I’m not alone with this kind of frustration with The Sims.
I will not make a vent post. No. I’m a positive person and I’ll try to give my humble opinion and try to give EA feedback and some things I would change.
Each version of the game had something unique that made it special in its way. TS2 had lots of actions and depth in each activity that made you discover something new each day. TS3 had an open world where you felt like part of a whole. Everything was alive in the world, every sim was progressing or doing things by themselves throughout the world. You could sit in your couch and think: “where is my friend now? What is he/she doing?”. I could take my bike and have a ride to the mountains, watching the scenery, have a sandwich in a park, fish in the pond, run across a friend on the street and go with him/her to a coffee and chat. You could recolour and place different patterns on every object. You could have generations and generations of your family, everything was connected in some way. Everything was alive in that very instant.
TS4 has good graphics and runs smoother. Just that. I don’t feel part of anything. It’s just me inside my lot. I can go to another lot and it’s me again in another lot with the same people showing up but I go to another lot and again it’s me with different people. Everything is lot-driven. There is nothing outside, just the lot. Nothing is connected. I don’t feel part of anything, it’s just me in a lot. I play a story in that lot and when I get out of it it’s gone, erased. It’s like it never happened.
Loading screens is not the problem for me. It’s ok to have loading screens if that makes the game runs better. The problem is that everything outside the lot you are in is dead and does not exist until you go somewhere else. There is no continuity in your actions.
I think EA also keeps doing the wrong choices about Expansions, packs and stuff. It is good to have different activities like going to a Jungle Adventure, for example, but once you’ve done that, you will probably won’t do that again. People keep asking over and over and over for a sandbox game, not a goal-driven game, or one-adventure game. We need more daily things to do.
I need more reactions to some situations, more specific personalities that define my sim behavior, not just some cosmetic traits that do not affect the sim much. I would like that traits were much more important in my sim life. I would like that my sim behaved differently according to the situation and other sims. For example: the way I speak to my boss should be different that the way I speak to my father.
I want to do some cooking and discover that I don’t have some ingredient and have to go to the grocery to buy it, not magically get it by opening the fridge. I would like to go to a store and buy the clothes I will wear, not just have them free. When I want to go to a lot, I need my sim at least go to the door of my house so I think: he’s leaving the house to go to the lot, not just see my sim in the couch and then in the gym. It’s not realistic, it’s just something weird which breaks continuity. If I had an argument with a friend or with my partner, I would like to have a feeling about that, not just go home and smile like nothing happened.
Nightclubs. I love nightclubs, but these are boring. I miss a mirrorball, some other effects like fog. I miss different kind of Nightclubs: posh places with disco music, old garages or warehouses with techno music, etc., each of them having different actions, styles, activities, music. I would like to be able to create new styles of music and feed them with my own music. That’s a sandbox.
Killing a NPC sim has become, at least for me, almost impossible. I tried to play an evil vampire who invited people into his castle and kill them. I tried to kill six different sims and after a sim-week they were still alive even with no food. No robberies, no evil jobs, no sarcasm in some actions. Everything is so pure and perfect that, in my opinion, is so childish. Sometimes I like to play a real life, with the good and the bad things a real life has to offer: getting robbed, be cheated by my partner, get insulted, fell on the floor, have an accident, or whatever. That’s life, not just a child tale in a Walt Disney cartoon.
Decorations are not my type as well. ¿Pink trees? ¿Trees with no leaves but some kind of green big ball up? It’s like a Walt Disney cartoon or a fantasy world. What about the city? That’s not a city.
Customization is very limited. People like me who are control freak and like to have control of everything and customize everything, don’t have the chance to change many things. Everything is so driven by the codification, so fixed, so stiff. Some worlds are so small that it’s impossible to customize to your liking because there is no room to make changes. You can’t even change trees, roads, the orientation of a lot, not even the size of the lot. Why not letting people change some aspects of the world with some prefixed patterns? Playing the game is very frustrating for me: I can’t do this because it is not allowed, I can’t do that because of the coding, I can’t place this here because there is a restriction, I can’t… I can’t…. This is not an open game. This is not a sandbox game.
Some of these changes are possible because modders are doing incredible things improving the game. Why EA doesn’t do anything at all? Shame on you!
Then, there is the empty packs and the poor base game problem. I know that the base game can’t have all we want. Companies should make money. Ok. I think the solution is, as always, a mid approach. We can get a base game with a little bit of everything, just a little bit, and then an EP taking that little bit and developing it for a whole and complete experience. For example, a base game with some kind of weather: rain, wind, snow, etc., but without much implications. After that EA could release a Seasons EP developing in more depth all the features and aspects of that, illnesses, control over the temperature and seasons, activities depending on the weather, etc. The same with Pets. We could have two different pets in the base game (cats and dogs) and in an EP we could see a complete experience with much more activities with pets, more different pets, vet job and vet clinic, and everything we can imagine. EA could make a better EP because they would have more time to develop the ideas and make the experience more complete because part of the work had already done in the base game.
I know it is almost impossible to release something that everyone would like. There will always be someone who does not like this and that, but what people is asking, demanding and shouting desperately is a sandbox game. And instead of that, EA is going to the opposite direction. Why?
I bought all the EP and many of the packs hoping the game would get better, but it is not. I love The Sims, and I really, really hate to see this game getting into this direction. I’m trying to like it, really, trying hard, but there are so many things that I don’t like that the game is not appealing much to me anymore.
This is a desperate call to EA. Please, do something about it. You can’t leave The Sims like this.
Thank you for reading me.
PD: Sorry for my mistakes. English is not my first language.
Exactly how i feel, i couldn't have explained my feelings about the path the sims is taking any better than this.
I think EA also keeps doing the wrong choices about Expansions, packs and stuff. It is good to have different activities like going to a Jungle Adventure, for example, but once you’ve done that, you will probably won’t do that again. People keep asking over and over and over for a sandbox game, not a goal-driven game, or one-adventure game. We need more daily things to do.
I need more reactions to some situations, more specific personalities that define my sim behavior, not just some cosmetic traits that do not affect the sim much. I would like that traits were much more important in my sim life. I would like that my sim behaved differently according to the situation and other sims. For example: the way I speak to my boss should be different that the way I speak to my father.
I want to do some cooking and discover that I don’t have some ingredient and have to go to the grocery to buy it, not magically get it by opening the fridge. I would like to go to a store and buy the clothes I will wear, not just have them free. When I want to go to a lot, I need my sim at least go to the door of my house so I think: he’s leaving the house to go to the lot, not just see my sim in the couch and then in the gym. It’s not realistic, it’s just something weird which breaks continuity. If I had an argument with a friend or with my partner, I would like to have a feeling about that, not just go home and smile like nothing happened.
Such a great post. I agree with everything, but these points really stuck out to me the most.
What I want from not only the base game, but every single expansion pack after it, are more daily things to do in the game. I want to never, at any point, feel like I am close to "beating" the game. It should be an experience that should constantly give me something new to do, something new to see, etc. The game should always be changing.
Sim behavior and AI is just far too abysmal right now with The Sims 4. They kept the same trait system from TS3, except only let your Sims have less. Traits and emotions do not work together well enough. Every Sim experiences the same emotions the same way. That's why these Sims are so predictable -- traits mean pretty much nothing.
The last paragraph I quoted is one of the biggest reasons why I like TS2. When my fridge is empty, I have to go to the grocery store. I have to pay that grocery bill on top of my home bills, and go out of my way to make sure they have enough food to cook. When I want my Sims to have new clothes or accessories, they pay for it with their own money. Nothing is free. I really love this realism, and I was so disappointed when TS4 did not bring this sort of content back from TS2.
Overall, you've captured pretty much everything wrong with this iteration. What has made me really disconnect from TS4 is My First Pet. After all the feedback and criticism fans have spent time giving them, they drop the series' first DLC for DLC, otherwise a terrible stuff pack, and remain absolutely silent when fans reject it.
It's just sad how much potential EA wastes on a continuous basis with this franchise.
I don't know if it's good to see that many people thinks like I do or just feel sad that so many people dislike the game.
In the end it is not a good thing, it's sad.
I know that this iteration is what it is and we should accept the dissaster or leave it, but I think that these posts maybe can do a difference if maybe some simguru reads it. I can't do nothing watching the game like this, because I love The Sims.
Comments
Customization isn’t for me because I am a perfectionist when and if I do such things. I tried it a little in TS2 but soon realized that I couldn’t make sims that really looked like myself or people I know - anyway. Now I know that the reason is that EA wants to target the Sims games mainly at young teen girls who can’t be expected to have neither much patience nor artistic skills at all. So those girls would most likely just become angry with the game if all their sims looked terrible for those reasons. So the Sims games are all designed such that it is quite impossible to make ugly looking sims or sims whos eyes aren’t at the same vertical level or whos faces aren’t symmetrical even though such asymmetric faces exist in the real world. There are other limitations too. But to a perfectionist like me it isn’t satisfying at all to make sims who don’t look like I intended anyway. So I don’t waste my time trying to do it anyway. It is much better for me to just get it done in no time such that I can concentrate on other things instead
I see it commonly used to mean a lack of customization options.
I do think there are a lot of players that fall into a creative group (even teens)
1. builders (more freedom ans assets build buy, probably would use/like CASt, terrain tools, separate foundation heights)
2. storymakers (The group that tends to have an idea in their head and act it out through the sims, probably enjoy more open ended goals, less step by step parties and aspirations, more traits per sims that are more impactful or personality points, favorites, turn ons & offs, lasting consequences/character building, skills, possibly like occult's as well depending on their play style, basically tons of options in live mode)
3. sims creators (create a sim features, ts4 cas push pull system, CASt again, more categories for each clothing types to have full customization of outfits)
Plenty of teenage girls have artistic skill, and many also have the will to be creative, I mean the sims team markets stuff like the new cas system and was supper excited about the color options in pets, so ea recognizes these options as desired content. For those who don't want to they use the gallery and probably still like more options because they benefit from those who do create having more tools.
As for sandbox games:
They lack game goals, but that doesn't mean lacking challenge they wouldn't be very entertaining for people. I set my own goals to meet that can be just as challenging or even more so than a game defined one, therefore wanting a sandbox game does not mean wanting no challenge it just means without preset goals or challenges. I think sandbox tends to add to replay-ability personally, because sandbox games aren't nearly as linear in story progression or play options each time one plays it can be entirely different from before.
Think table top RPGs. The group chooses it's challenges. The game has challenging aspects to over come but what the players do is defined entirely by them. If they decide to just stay in the tavern/safe-house forever and not do any of the challenges they can, but many don't because they want to have fun.
Now I know some people don't like setting their own goals so obviously sandbox options wouldn't be as ideal.
You know.... it's been what, 3 years... and we are still having these discussions about the disappointment of what TS4 is and what it will never be.
The OP makes excellent points about the game as a whole. And after 3 years, shouldn't the game have some life to it? I mean, it's supposed to be a life simulator right? A life simulator that can't distinguish between teens and young adults (who look just alike). And at release omitted an entire life stage. That still baffles me, no toddlers... until the masses demanded it and backed EA into a corner. Weather that was a strategic move on their part or just plain stupidity, it was a glaring mistake. They may have given you Toddlers for free...but everyone who bought the kids room stuff pack ended up paying for them in the end.
It's really not going to get any better. They will keep pushing out all the EP's, SP's, GP's, with mismatched content and empty game play. But no matter how much Stuff they push at everyone...it's never going to make the game alive and full. It's just EA's way of cashing in on the good name of The Sims and not really caring weather or not the actual content is good. That's the part that angers me.
I'm glad the OP did this thread....it means there are still people who care enough to ask EA to step up. Although I do not feel TS4 can be fixed, it's pretty much set in stone with its limitation. I would hope, if there is another Sims game in the future...it will be the Sims game we were all expecting... and not some empty shell that they fill with unplayable Stuff.
Of those, it really only feels like Sims 4 caters to the Create-a-Sim fans and the simulation fans. Sure, we can wear a cute skirt and we can do laundry....but the builders are constantly upset that building feels more limited. The RPG fans are complaining all Sims feel the same. And the sandbox fans rightfully point out there's simply nothing to do.
I fear though that much of our complaints are for nothing. Look at Star Wars Battlefront 2. They STILL tease the idea of sticking to the lootboxes. For EA, the bottom line is money. This is a company that has focused so much on money, they've forgotten the purpose of every job or service is to give back to society. You provide a thing or a service that society thanks you for and get money in return. Some companies understand this, others forget the value of the product/service itself and focus on making more money for less work.
SPs sell because they're cheap and half the community says "it's just $10." SPs have replaced the second EP entirely while GPs act as the old EPs. Overall, where we once got 2 EPs and 2 SPs per year, we now get 1 EP, 2 GPs and 4 SPs for the same pricetag overall, except the work they provide making them absolutely feels like less. The EPs have been the most disappointing of the franchise, the SPs are never going to be more than SPs, and even the GPs have been hit and miss.
As sad as it is to say, companies like these only understand money, and even though many facets of a typical Sims game are being neglected or feel neglected in about 70% of their overall packs, we see little evidence this will change. SPs continue to churn out once per economic quarter like clockwork, EPs continue to release once a year with sub-par reception, and the GPs are - for many people - the only thing to hold out any hope for. Doesn't matter. People still buy.
I agree more with the following definition that I found:
”It's like little children in a park playing with their toys in the sand, doing whatever they want, along specific limits (the child must take into account gravity, friction a.s.o. when building something).
Likewise, a sandbox game allows the player to build whatever it pleases her, within the rules, in order to achieve a highscore or something - or maybe not, the player may play just for the sake of it ...”
Yep... This Exactly. I won't buy from them anymore because of this.
Please Bring Back Toddlers, Realistic Teenagers and Create a World.
Make the Sims (4) Great Again<3
As an extra example of moving backwards (content/price): TS2 apartment life... you had witches (nicely fleshed out if I may add), the ability to build apartments, visiting neighbors without loading screens, a large neighborhood, roommates, etc... It's an expansion pack released 10(!) years ago and it outshines City Living in many ways. I enjoy playing City Living but it lacks in so many areas compared to a game released such a long time ago. We get so little content yet we pay so much money for those packs... You can make comparisons for all of the released packs with the previous installments and see how we're sort of being ripped off here.
As a recovering TS2-addict I'm also able to see how they're stepping backwards instead of forwards on many occasions. Don't get me wrong, I'm actually one of those who enjoy TS4 very much. I applaud them for trying some new things but...don't throw out the old if it is still good.
This is pretty spot on with how I feel, too.
The issue is, even with the 'better' packs, there is nobody at this studio which is spearheading thinking outside of the box. It feels like they are always scrambling to catch up to the predecessors, and run out of breath before they are able to breathe in new life into whatever it is they are setting out to do.
I use the term "Sandbox" to set the game apart from a game like say "Elder Scrolls: Skyrim". Ok, yes I have played Skyrim a lot, but doing the same thing over and over again can be boring. I'm not saying that there shouldn't be challenges or limited goals (like the Life Time Aspirations in Sims 2), but the means to achieve said goal should not be the same actions over and over again (like say the Doctor Career in GTW). There should be multiple ways to achieve the goal. And there should be consequences and/or rewards for certain actions. Sims 2 did this wonderfully with chance cards in the jobs. I would love to see this return again. And I do agree with you Erpe that the reactions the Sims themselves have in Sims 4 is not nearly as fun as they are in Sims 2 or 3.
World Adventures is an EP for Sims 3, not a standalone game. I have no problem with World Adventures and in fact have fun playing in the different worlds. I still haven't completed all the quests, but some day I will.
To me The Sims Medieval is a spin off of the original game. It has a different feel than playing Sims 3 itself and yes, I do play it when the mood strikes. As a matter of fact it was the reason I bought Sims 3 in the first place.
Very good points though.
I never got started with Skyrim and I don’t even remember the reason anymore. But it likely was that I had played its predecessor Oblivion quite a lot and needed some other type of game at the time.
Still I think that we shouldn’t just use the expression “sandbox game” just to say that a game has an open world or that it isn’t completely RPG because there are many other types of games too and because the expression “sandbox game” IMO should be reserved for games that like children playing in a physical sandbox are only played with no other purpose than just to try different things to see what happens or if we really can build those “sand castles” that we are trying to build. A sandbox game is for me a game without any other goals than the goals that we make up for ourselves.
The Sims Medieval was for me a RPG game and not a sandbox game because it was mainly about doing premade quests. But it was a very good game and I strongly prefer this type of games over pure sandbox games. Also when we are speaking about Sims games which for me should more be a mix between sandbox and RPG (with good quests that we can try if we like - but still games that we also just can play in other ways if we prefer this).
EA doesn't react to requests here because EA’s problem isn’t to sell more games to the forum users who likely will buy almost everything anyway (and are too few to matter much among the total number of customers) because EA’s main problem instead is to make the game more attractive to casual gamers who play games much less than we do and only buy games sometimes at random when they see something interesting. Such casual gamers can be found everywhere and they clearly matter many times more to the sales numbers.
So there isn’t alas much that we can do to change the way EA makes the games.
Minecraft is a great example of a sandbox, yet it still has challenges If and whenever a player chooses to play survival mode rather creative, which adds the character the player is controlling with a health/hp bar and hostile mobs (also know as monsters) to defend themselves from what the objective to mode lives up implies: to survive. It even proves that a game can carry both aspects well simultaneously without each other conflicting: You have a game (regarding the survival mode only) that carries challenges, and yet it still is open-ended game without any explicit goal, so it's up to player to make up and create their own goal, equivalently to how a simmer after creating a sim can bring any story, any house home, a town, a career, a family for their pixelate person that they're aren't limited to what the game directs them to do. Sure there are boses, but the game doesn't stressed on defeating that big monster so you can ignore that objective all together or just continue doing whatever the player want after defeating the dragon/wither. You can build, create, destroy, change anything, but of course you have to work for those things to obtain necessary tools and equipment (which is what I call a challenge), but that doesn't mean it makes it no longer a sandbox. It's the technical and restrictions that crosses out the sandbox term from the list. If the player had their sim work out through grinding or any other obstacles to gain the ability to build skyscrapers from the very ground off from the very scratch, now that's a different and I would without arguing consider being a sandbox aspect.
However, The Sims 4 fails to provide any of that. It isn't a challenging game, nor a sandbox. There are little intentionally implement risk (not talking about buggy gameplay that brings forth overstacking happy fatal moodlets) for your sims to die from, there are no in-depth/expanded/dynamic tools for builders that are begging for those to build with and word creating tools are absent.
To keep it short:
* When simmers are asking for challenges, I think they are referring to the difficulty and trials their sims have to face through their lifes.
* When simmers are asking for sandbox, I think they are referring to tools themselves wish to be handed to, from the developers, to be able to manipulate the lifes of their sims in versatile means and/or build complex and more unique buildings/houses/facilities/etc.
P.S. Sorry for my bad english.
For me a sandbox game is not that you do not have goals at all. You could have goals... or not, you can do this... or that. You can choose what you do because there are not limitations. That's the point of all this: to not have restrictions and limitations . I don’t want the game to force me to do something, I want to play as freely as possible. I want to have control of anything I want and change it.
A sandbox it is not about how many objects we can get. That's the easiest way. It doesn't matter if we have 10 or 1000 different chairs. It is about what you can do with them. I really don't need 5000 clutter objects if I can't interact with them. Don't give me 10 jobs, give me a tool to make a job setting the money to get in each level, the text to send, etc. All those jobs like painter, writer, etc., those just makes the sim to leave... somewhere... give money, send some texts, and they all feel the same. They just differenciate in some aspects that can be changed with an "easy" tool.
TS4 is beautiful, indeed it is. Sims are very realistic, it is great… but boring. No legacy, no story progression, no control over anything, no customization of the world or any tiny aspect of it, you can’t customize the color or style of objects completely, just a few options there. You can’t.
Sims are almost always smiling, everything is so perfect, accessible and quick. It fits in a society where everything is at hand. You need food? OK, click on the fridge and get it by magic. You want to go to the gym? OK, just use your phone while sitting on the sofa and magically be teletransported there without even getting out of the house or take a car. You need to order pieces to upgrade something? Click on the computer and receive them magically in your inventory. The other day I did it and my sim didn’t even go to the computer.
I need something like: “Yesterday I was at home and when I was about to cook some dinner I realized that I ran out of tomatoes. I took my bike and went to the grocery store to buy some. There was a robbery in the grocery store and I thought it would be better if I just went back home and order some pizza. I was waiting for some time when I decided to check the front gate when I saw the delivery man running away while my dog was barking angrily at him. The pizza was on the floor but inside the cartoon box. I tried to get it but my dog was quicker and began eating it. It was late to order more pizza, so I went to bed hoping the next day would be much better.” That’s funny, that’s a story to live, these situations are not improvised or forced, they just flow. This story is not possible in TS4 because: there is no grocery store, or bike, you can get tomatoes magically from the fridge, there are no robberies…. You can’t live that. See what I mean? I don’t need a thousand clutter objects, please just make these stories possible.
San Myshuno is the best example for a non-sandbox game. Apartments are very restricted. You can’t build an apartment. You can’t distribute space between apartments, they are static. You can’t change some traits in apartments. Some objects and spaces in an apartment are static and can’t be changed. For example, the Spire apartment has a beautiful view but I don’t live there because the hall entrance with the elevator cannot be moved and it is at the side of the apartment with the best view. You can’t, you can’t, you can’t…
Isn’t it possible to do it? Yes, it’s possible, but it’s easier to restrict it than coding it properly to avoid bugs and test it thoroughly. With TS3 many modders fixed dozens or even hundreds of bugs that EA/maxis, or whoever, didn’t do at all. The game was ended and left by EA/maxis with a huge amount of bugs which modders continued fixing. If I were EA/maxis I should feel ashamed of my work. Fixes are possible, but it is easier to move to another game once you got the money and let others fix the bugs for you. You know The Sims customers are very loyal and many would buy the product anyway.
What’s the point of no having story progression in a life simulator? There was one day when my Sim was walking down Sunset Valley in TS3 in the middle of the night. It shocked me that in one house there was light in one room and I could see through the window that a sim was talking to another. I went to the house where a friend lived hoping he was awake or at least to see what was he doing. He must had been sleeping or out because lights were off. That’s what I mean with: a world ALIVE. I remember the amazing feeling I got that time walking in the night in Sunset Valley watching the world changing and living without my control. Live was there in front of you, sims were independent and progressed at the same time you did, with or without you. In the TS4 anything outside your current loading screen does not exist.
Customization was incredible in TS3. CAW was very difficult at first, but with some patience I manage to create beautiful specific worlds for different stories: a City plagued with insane and evil ghosts and vampires next to a neighbourhood where “normal” people lived with the constant threat of the previous, I completely changed Sunset Valley, Twinbrook and Bridgeport with all the community lots and objects available in all expansions. You could imagine anything and implement it according to a story. Now… you can’t, you can’t, you can’t.
Why I’m still venting? Because I L O V E The Sims. I do not want this game to end. If I didn’t, I wouldn’t even bother on posting here. Even if this post seems to be written in an angry mood, it is not. I want simgurus to read it and learn what we want. I think maybe a thousand vents like this would make them realize that a change should come urgently in order to keep this game alive.
Serve this post as positive one. Please, whoever is reading this post with the power to make a difference and change the game: do something. We love The Sims.
Thank you.
”Sandbox games can include structured elements – such as mini-games, tasks, submissions and storylines – that may be ignored by gamers. In fact, the sandbox game's nonlinear nature creates storyline challenges for game designers. For this reason, tasks and side missions usually follow a progression, where tasks are unlocked upon successful task completion.”
I was just a little surprised though that they mention Assassin’s Creed and Grand Theft Auto as typical sandbox games.
Exactly how i feel, i couldn't have explained my feelings about the path the sims is taking any better than this.
Such a great post. I agree with everything, but these points really stuck out to me the most.
What I want from not only the base game, but every single expansion pack after it, are more daily things to do in the game. I want to never, at any point, feel like I am close to "beating" the game. It should be an experience that should constantly give me something new to do, something new to see, etc. The game should always be changing.
Sim behavior and AI is just far too abysmal right now with The Sims 4. They kept the same trait system from TS3, except only let your Sims have less. Traits and emotions do not work together well enough. Every Sim experiences the same emotions the same way. That's why these Sims are so predictable -- traits mean pretty much nothing.
The last paragraph I quoted is one of the biggest reasons why I like TS2. When my fridge is empty, I have to go to the grocery store. I have to pay that grocery bill on top of my home bills, and go out of my way to make sure they have enough food to cook. When I want my Sims to have new clothes or accessories, they pay for it with their own money. Nothing is free. I really love this realism, and I was so disappointed when TS4 did not bring this sort of content back from TS2.
Overall, you've captured pretty much everything wrong with this iteration. What has made me really disconnect from TS4 is My First Pet. After all the feedback and criticism fans have spent time giving them, they drop the series' first DLC for DLC, otherwise a terrible stuff pack, and remain absolutely silent when fans reject it.
It's just sad how much potential EA wastes on a continuous basis with this franchise.
I don't know if it's good to see that many people thinks like I do or just feel sad that so many people dislike the game.
In the end it is not a good thing, it's sad.
I know that this iteration is what it is and we should accept the dissaster or leave it, but I think that these posts maybe can do a difference if maybe some simguru reads it. I can't do nothing watching the game like this, because I love The Sims.
Eventually, since this SP the game goes in the bad direction.