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Why do we hate on TS4?

As the title suggests, I'm really not sure why a decent amount of simmers have so much disdain for TS4. I stopped playing it for almost a year but I got into it again and it's a really really fun game. Don't get me wrong the game has its fair share of annoying quirks but it's so much more immersive.
I just don't get why anyone would want to have an open-world with less immersion.

For example:
In TS4 you can watch your sims in the spa, have family dinners, go shopping for clothes, run your own business, take your sims on actual dates, invest time in your toddlers,kids,etc... , have pets that are actually invested in your sims, you can have REAL apartments, the professions are actually more fun, the game overall is more challenging, and you can take your sims out to clubs and bars and they ACTUALLY socialize and dance.

Compared to TS3 where... Your sims go to the rabbit hole 'spa,' and just get a moodlet, you can't really go shopping at all, you can't run your own business, your sims can't go on immersive dates, the toddlers are a cake walk and the kids just ignore you, the pets are practically unbothered by the sims, you have fake apartments with no real change in the sim's life style (no rats, no real neighbors, etc..), the professions are really just distractions and tasks you do outside of the rabbit holes so you feel like you're going to work with your sims, TS3 is somewhat challenging but you can get bored easily, in TS3 the clubs are just boring.... Remember the launch of Late Night and all of the "empty club" threads? Yeah.... Boring.

I just think at this point if you don't like TS4, then you never will. Some of us will just have to wait for TS5. I think the problem is the fact that we don't like change. Ea realized that they aimed too high with TS3 and because of that there were a lot of places they had to cut back to compensate for having an open world. Without the open world we have so much more immersion. I feel like I'm playing TS2 again because I actually find myself getting invested in the game, and losing track of time.

I'm not trying to bash anyone, or berate their opinion but I feel like TS4 has come a long way. It's definitely not finished but it's getting there slowl and surely...
:)
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Comments

  • summer_berrysummer_berry Posts: 30 New Member
    I agree that TS4 has come a long way! Although there are definitely things that need work or should be added from previous sims games--such as attraction, fears, more base CAS and build items--I think that TS4 has a lot more to offer. I agree that the closed worlds are better and that we can do so much more with our sims. Toddlers, the ability to own and run a business, all of the nice little features like multitasking are great. It simply runs better and looks better, and although we might not get new content at the speed we want it it's still a huge improvement from TS3.
  • ErpeErpe Posts: 5,043 Member
    I don’t see it as hating either. But as many simmers are a little dissatisfied that they get bored sooner than they did with the earlier games.

    I can’t speak for others. But you are right that there are more autonomous behavior to look at. That doesn’t satisfy me though because I don’t just want to look (like it was some kind of animated movie instead of a game). I want to play a game where I decide what should happen and not a “game” that for a huge part just want to play itself and reduce me to a spectator a lot of the time.
  • EnderGamer87EnderGamer87 Posts: 68 Member
    The only thing I hate about TS4 is All the bugs, broken GTW expansion, loading screens between appartments / can't build my own, and not seeing C&D's needs, genealogy, and broken labor. Everything else with TS4 is great. I hope in TS5 they don't do Open World, but Open Neighborhoods.
  • LadyKynLadyKyn Posts: 316 Member
    edited December 2
    To me, TS3 felt more like a reboot of the series if not an a 'experiment' to what limits the game can be pushed to. Though, I always thought of the Sims series not really needing to push limits as it was a game set for more 'casual' game play opposed to other games, which resulted in something I didn't much care for. I mean, who doesn't like open worlds in games and more customization? But it still felt limited, since there were a lot more rabbit hole lots compared to the ones that weren't. Easy to check on sims what they were up to if you weren't playing a family, but always still felt limited in the game still compared to Sims 2 which had contained lots. I was even expecting 'hair' physics to be in the game, but it was oddly M.I.A? The game is can still be fun of course (while screwing up your sims lives at that in amusement), but even with all the EP's I still felt it to be lack luster still.

    Yet, in the Sims 2 games it felt like there was more more things to do as the game focused on that opposed to faux city surroundings or free roaming like in example, Night Life. A 'downtown' area, but it focused on what there was for Sims 2 do on the lot. Felt like there was more love put into a game that still holds up today even with a lack of customization options compared to later games I just liked seeing my sims interact with one another and have life breathed into them and where they were at.

    Sims 4 had a shaky start and unfortunately a certain 'reputation' to uphold to a previous game, same with Sims 3 to 2, 2 to 1, so it wasn't received well by too many people in the least, which was understandable, since there were staples in the game we also expected to be there and still wanted. But has it come far from what it was?

    I like to think so and has grown more into a decent Sim title and it made me fondly remember Sims 2 and what I missed from it. I missed populated lots. Sims actually conversing a lot, waving to one another on the street, dancing at a venue-

    I like seeing some fresh ideas rather than a lot more of 'rehashed' things done to death as they were getting out of that comfort level to try more things. There's still things I love and don't love about it, but it's definitely become one of my favorite Sims titles.

    I do agree if you still dislike the fact that the world/neighborhood isn't as opened anymore along with no Create-a-style, better story progression and art style you probably will never like the game. Everyone has different tastes and enjoyment from their Sims games. If anything, by now I just think of Sim titles as their 'own installment'. Opposed to which one is better than what, since they all did bring something new to the table in each one and at their core they are essentially the same game. Sims 4 brought plenty of new features, but sadly it still gets overlooked since there's still some things in the game that probably still feel underwhelming.

    Feel like most people that have warmed up to the game better probably didn't just 'anti-hate' the game more than just wanting this game to succeed and wanting become the game we knew it could be. No one wants to see the 'self-destruction' of a series they've loved for a long time. Which baffled me to why some still want to see it 'fail'. Just like other sim titles you see the community making all sorts of things for the game from clothing to mods because of their love of the game and wanting to share it with others as it may or may not improve your experience even more.

    We all still love the Sims regardless of our complaints, praises, concerns, frustrations and more don't we?
  • ChazzzyChazzzy Posts: 1,155 Member
    Live and let live is what I say.
  • ErpeErpe Posts: 5,043 Member
    I don't think that they aimed too high for TS3 and too low for TS4 because it isn’t about what our computers are capable to do. There are much more demanding games out there. Just look at a game like Deus Ex: Mankind Divided where the recommended requirements are:
    CPU: Intel Core i7-3770K or AMD FX 8350 Wraith
    CPU SPEED: Info
    RAM: 16 GB
    OS: Windows 10 64-bit
    VIDEO CARD: AMD Radeon RX 480 - 1920 x 1080 or NVIDIA GTX 970 - 1920 x 1080
    FREE DISK SPACE: 55 GB

    Such a computer would be a huge overkill even for TS3. So if TS3 doesn’t run smoothly on it while Deus Ex: Mankind Divided does then it should be clear for everybody that the problem isn’t the open world in TS3. Instead the problem as usual just is that EA doesn’t use enough resources on bug fixing and testing and never has. This most likely also mean that in the end when all expansions for TS4 have been released then TS4 will have have just as many bugs and problems as TS3 had.
  • aricaraiaricarai Posts: 7,970 Member
    edited December 2
    I wouldn't say 'we' or 'hating' - that's a blanket statement. I think a lot of people, including myself expected it to be better, which there's nothing wrong with it. It doesn't mean I hate it; I want to love it, I wanted it to be a complete improvement over iterations before it. That is why I provide my thoughts, opinions, and feedback in hopes of a TS5 being better than what we have now.

    Don't get me wrong, TS4 does improve in some areas over previous iterations (which it should), but what was left out or cut is too significant to ignore.

    Edit: I asked this in another thread, but perhaps you didn't see it:
    alexandrea wrote: »
    JoAnne65 wrote: »
    I feel I’ve given the game an honest chance, more than once. It just can’t hold my attention (can’t say I dislike it, it’s just that). Giving it an honest chance for me doesn’t include spending a lot of extra money though because owning the packs I do just isn’t enough apparently. That’s not giving it an honest chance in my book, that’s throwing money down the drain.

    Well... TS3 really didn't get exciting for me until around the Seasons EP. Idk... TS3 is just very flat. TS4 is really fun to play and get lost in. Give it some time... :)

    What changed your mind? Not saying it's a bad thing, but I couldn't help but notice that one month, you'll really dislike TS4 and the next, you don't like TS3. Is it when new packs come out that brings you back to it every time?
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  • VromanceVromance Posts: 71 Member
    It's not hating. I mean, sure some of it is... but the majority IMO has been pretty constructive with their criticism. Plus, if it wasn't for all the "haters" TS4 probably wouldn't be as good as it is today. I'm happy that we have such a vocal community. I like TS4, but I don't blindly accept all it's faults. The game still has many years to go (or so I've heard) so while they're still paying attention to TS4...we should be as loud as we can so we're not stuck with a half-baked game. ^^''
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  • MelanieScribblesMelanieScribbles Posts: 21 New Member
    I haven't really played the other Sims games yet, but I know I like the Sims 4. I'm a stickler for a lot of customization options, I suppose. I mean, I sometimes try to make something that looks like me if I can customize a character. But even if I pull the weight slider all the way up in most games, it barely looks like me. They hardly ever have my upturned nose, my glasses, and my preferred black clothes right off the bat (I usually have to unlock those somewhere). Without all that, it's... just not me. Sims 4 was the first game where my dad (who only looks at the big picture and nothing else), looked at the character and said: "Hey, that's you, isn't it?" I could make this fictional person ACTUALLY look like me. it wasn't like looking in a mirror, but I had only had the game for about a day. And I looked at the finished thing in CAS and went: 'That's me!'. I hardly ever get to do that, and it was such a positive first experience with the game.

    And I tend to be really out there with character design, and I like to mess around in character creation and see what comes out. Couch potato vampires and good guy Necromancers are pretty much my MO, to give you a general idea on my original characters. Most of my current OC's were based off just messing around in the character creation section of a few games, and slapping a backstory on them. But I usually need some serious options to come up with a design that actually looks okay. In the Sims, I want to make a goth-looking alien? I can. I want to make an entire family that looks like anime characters? I download a circle lens mod to make their eyes look even larger, and the idea's good to go. I sometimes try to see if I can make my existing characters in a creator: usually, I get something that looks only halfway like the character. But now? They're now all recognizable, and running around somewhere in-world. Probably causing mayhem somewhere. xD

    Sure, some things in the Sims 4 could definitely use an upgrade. Especially the house design mechanics... Curtains, for one, are a real pain if you really want your windows at a certain height. I can try about 5 times to get me cursor in the EXACT right position to place the dang thing, and then end up doing that all over again because I want tapestries, and they won't move to the frippin' right place when the curtains are in place!
    Oh, and pathfinding in Live Mode. Sometimes, a Sim CAN reach a thing, and I've checked: plenty of space to reach it. But they won't do it on their own. I have to legit walk them over, and have them interact with it. After that, they get there on their own just fine.
    And that a Sim's queue doesn't stay after travelling away from a location, or going to Manage Worlds. And skilling up is incredibly slow, even with traits like Top-Notch Toddler. Plus: I don't know why, but male Sims are way more likely to refuse to use a toilet when ordered than female Sims are, in whatever save I load up. I thought it was just me hanging the toilet paper decoration next to the john (you don't want to run out, come on). But even after removing it? Same issue. The thing that bugs me the most, is that this pretty much ruins their queued actions.

    All in all, Sims 4 is still a really good game. Really, I just think this game speaks to the creative side of me. My point is: with the right packs, you can do almost anything. Some gameplay definitely needs to be tweaked, because it takes away from what the series was built on... that wide range of customization options! But all in all, I don't really get why some people hate it. The issues I have with the Sims 4 are really minor. I say major kudos to EA for making a game that speaks to both the hardcore gamers like me, and the more casual gamers like one of my coworkers.
  • MidnightAuraMidnightAura Posts: 3,129 Member
  • ChampandGirlieChampandGirlie Posts: 673 Member
    I like TS4. I definitely don't hate it. It is great for extensive rotational play within a coherent save which I am enjoying a lot. I never played that way before. In prior versions, I used to just play one household in a save at a time until I got bored of them. Admittedly, I didn't get bored of them in TS2 and pretty much all of my time playing TS2 revolved around one made up family. Anyway, I normally got bored and abandoned saves to start a new one in the old days. In this version? Nope. My initial test household is still in the game in a later generation, but I've found that I could create a town with characters where I give them depth by playing them at various times. I like it.

    I do think there are areas for improvement in terms of bugs and new content. I do think that sometimes they water the game down to be excessively childish more so than oriented for teens and up. (Sometimes, though there are definite ways around that and I've made it so that my game is not). As I've mentioned, I think that there could always be more to do in terms of activities.

    I generally like the flow of this game though and I liked that from when I tried it last year. The way in which it all came together was very playable for me especially as I added more households and edited the various worlds into a cohesive broader world. I knew then that I wanted to play it and I didn't care about others' complaints that weren't applicable to me. I am playing it on a rather fast computer so loading screens don't last long for me. They are way shorter than I remember in the older games. I actually really do like all of the places that I can go into including the spas. My sims spend a lot of time off of their home lots and out in the community.

    People just sometimes want different things. I recently tried playing another game that gets lots of positive reviews from various people. (It's the new Skyrim; I've never played it before). I wanted to see how it compares and I was open to like it. Honestly? It's ok. It is a very different type of game. Sure, the character customization was ... intense, though that doesn't matter a ton to me. The graphics and world were worth appreciating though in a different way than TS4. TS4's worlds are gorgeous. It was such a different style of game that I don't think it's fair to compare it. I'll still play that one a bit since I have it now but it isn't going to cut into TS4 for me. I like my open-ended, happy, more realistic world where I have my own game of my creation to play with. There's a side of playing TS (all of the series) that can't be satisfied by a highly scripted game, even one with a lot of possibilities.

    I do empathize with the complaints of people who feel like they've been too restricted creatively by a lack of world-editing. That hasn't been a problem for me since I have used the materials in the world as a creative springboard for the towns that I've created but I can see their point for sure. I'd love to have a few more houses and lots in BB. I would also like to see content that offers more varieties of things for our sims to do. I actually liked Bowling Night, for example. I thought it was a great addition at a good price.

    Not everyone is complaining a lot. There are specific points that I definitely agree with complaining about but I generally like the game a lot which is why I keep playing it and I stay open to new content. I do pay attention to complaints to see if they are relevant for me but I make my own decisions. Sure, I sometimes look at reviews and feedback but I think for myself in deciding if I want something or not.
    Champ and Girlie are dogs, probably the first thought that popped into my head when asked to make a screen name. They are and were great dogs. I look forward to seeing more Sim pets. :-)
  • alexandreaalexandrea Posts: 2,290 Member
    edited December 2
    All in all, Sims 4 is still a really good game. Really, I just think this game speaks to the creative side of me. My point is: with the right packs, you can do almost anything. Some gameplay definitely needs to be tweaked, because it takes away from what the series was built on... that wide range of customization options! But all in all, I don't really get why some people hate it. The issues I have with the Sims 4 are really minor. I say major kudos to EA for making a game that speaks to both the hardcore gamers like me, and the more casual gamers like one of my coworkers.

    I agree. This game is very versatile in regards to the players it attracts. Which is why it's so fun. I can play seriously and not so seriously.

    aricarai wrote: »
    Don't get me wrong, TS4 does improve in some areas over previous iterations (which it should), but what was left out or cut is too significant to ignore.

    Edit: I asked this in another thread, but perhaps you didn't see it:
    alexandrea wrote: »
    JoAnne65 wrote: »
    I feel I’ve given the game an honest chance, more than once. It just can’t hold my attention (can’t say I dislike it, it’s just that). Giving it an honest chance for me doesn’t include spending a lot of extra money though because owning the packs I do just isn’t enough apparently. That’s not giving it an honest chance in my book, that’s throwing money down the drain.

    Well... TS3 really didn't get exciting for me until around the Seasons EP. Idk... TS3 is just very flat. TS4 is really fun to play and get lost in. Give it some time... :)

    What changed your mind? Not saying it's a bad thing, but I couldn't help but notice that one month, you'll really dislike TS4 and the next, you don't like TS3. Is it when new packs come out that brings you back to it every time?

    See, I feel like it's too significant to ignore when you don't give the game a chance, and keep thinking about TS3. That's what I did, and since I stopped TS4 has been very enjoyable. TS4 is in its own league tbh. And as for my flip-flopping it's human nature... I'm a Gemini and I tend to be indecisive a lot. :# I got to play it over the holiday time and I was like "wow this game is really good." With all the Ep's and Gp's, and SP's the game feels pretty darn full. Admittedly, not everyone wants to or should have to buy every Gp,Sp, or EP for the game to feel full but... Most of us buy the EP's. The game has improved since last year and I'm loving it. Don't get me wrong I'll pop in TS2 or TS3 every now and then but TS4 takes the cake for me.

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  • Sigzy05Sigzy05 Posts: 14,450 Member
    edited December 2
    alexandrea wrote: »
    As the title suggests, I'm really not sure why a decent amount of simmers have so much disdain for TS4. I stopped playing it for almost a year but I got into it again and it's a really really fun game. Don't get me wrong the game has its fair share of annoying quirks but it's so much more immersive.
    I just don't get why anyone would want to have an open-world with less immersion.

    For example:
    In TS4 you can watch your sims in the spa, have family dinners, go shopping for clothes, run your own business, take your sims on actual dates, invest time in your toddlers,kids,etc... , have pets that are actually invested in your sims, you can have REAL apartments, the professions are actually more fun, the game overall is more challenging, and you can take your sims out to clubs and bars and they ACTUALLY socialize and dance.

    Compared to TS3 where... Your sims go to the rabbit hole 'spa,' and just get a moodlet, you can't really go shopping at all, you can't run your own business, your sims can't go on immersive dates, the toddlers are a cake walk and the kids just ignore you, the pets are practically unbothered by the sims, you have fake apartments with no real change in the sim's life style (no rats, no real neighbors, etc..), the professions are really just distractions and tasks you do outside of the rabbit holes so you feel like you're going to work with your sims, TS3 is somewhat challenging but you can get bored easily, in TS3 the clubs are just boring.... Remember the launch of Late Night and all of the "empty club" threads? Yeah.... Boring.

    I just think at this point if you don't like TS4, then you never will. Some of us will just have to wait for TS5. I think the problem is the fact that we don't like change. Ea realized that they aimed too high with TS3 and because of that there were a lot of places they had to cut back to compensate for having an open world. Without the open world we have so much more immersion. I feel like I'm playing TS2 again because I actually find myself getting invested in the game, and losing track of time.

    I'm not trying to bash anyone, or berate their opinion but I feel like TS4 has come a long way. It's definitely not finished but it's getting there slowl and surely...
    :)

    So you made a thread to try and force other people to like TS4. "Oh TS3 clubs were so boring.." we must have played difference games. Remember how when TS4 launched everyone was stating the lack of content? Yeah boring. It's still the same for me.

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  • alexandreaalexandrea Posts: 2,290 Member

    I think it comes down to opinion. At the end of the day I don't hate the Sims 4 but I believe it's the weakest of the four games.

    Everything you have mentioned in your list I can do in the sims 3 bar the clothes shopping but to be fair there is no need for clothes shopping in the sims 4 either as you have access to all the clothing. Because I have the bakery and the bistro I can use those as businesses but they aren't a patch on the sims 2 system. (Neither by the way is the sims 4, running a business in the sims 4 is just opening up a social centre to watch people come and talk and talk and talk.. all day.

    My experience with pets in 3 is not yours, my pets are quirky, surprising, fun and they add something to the game, they have family trees, I have a dog who brings my sim the paper every morning and wakes her up. I have a cat that greets the family when they come home.

    The professions are much better than the sims 4 active careers. Comparing the two is like comparing apples and oranges. The sims 4 active careers are broken and just a repetitive checklist. My toddlers in the sims 3 aren't easy. They are like proper realistic toddlers in that they are dependent on their care givers, they aren't super independent from the moment they leap out the crib and start walking. Toddlers in the sims 3 were much more challenging than the sims 4. As for children ignoring things? I just have never experienced that. Dating in the sims 2 and 3 is better as there is no checklists and it's a true date- just two sims as opposed to two sims and the whole community lot dropping by to say hi.

    I do agree EA aimed too high with the open world and that's largely why we have the scaled back almost mobile like version we have now. I can live without an open world but I would rather not if I had the option of a well done open world.

    For me the sims 4 is immersion breaking in small but impactful ways. For example no car pool and school buses, my sims just poof and disappear when the time comes to leave. No newspapers, no taxis to go to a community lot, it's just poof and gone. That breaks my immersion every time. I do enjoy that community lots are busy and bustling but it's fake in the sense you need certain objects to call the sims to the lot. I mean I can't build a cinema without adding a bar. Once I add a bar any sims visiting will hang at the bar and ignore the cinema totally. I find that restrictive and immersion breaking. If I want to build a venue I should be able to put what I want in it not have x and y before it can be considered a venue.

    Dating for me in the sims 4 is completely redundant and it breaks my immersion as I'm very aware I have a checklist telling me to make sure my sims have 10 friendly interactions, 2 deep conversations, sit and chat at a table, become flirty at the same time, have a passionate kiss etc and to add insult to injury while you are trying to woo your date other sims just come over and insert themselves into your conversation and there is no option to make them leave. Once the date is over your date simply walks off and disappears. The sims 2 and 3 had better dating, in fact scratch that, the sims 1 had better dating. It felt natural and fun and not a battle of trying to complete a list whilst fending off the neighbourhood and now literally their dogs.

    I don't hate the sims 4. I can play it in short bursts but i am disappointed in the direction it's going in. It's not about the content, it's how that content is given to us.

    How is TS4 the weakest iteration? The game actually boots up properly, doesn't have a buggy launcher, and is as smooth as ever. I don't need to use a mod to delete excess items in my sim's inventory just so the game is playable.

    You are aware that TS3 ambitions gave us "opportunities" which were pretty much checklists. As for the dating checklist that was in TS2 but in an indirect way.
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  • StormsviewStormsview Posts: 1,853 Member
    alexandrea wrote: »
    As the title suggests, I'm really not sure why a decent amount of simmers have so much disdain for TS4. I stopped playing it for almost a year but I got into it again and it's a really really fun game.

    Why did you Stop playing the Sims 4 so long?
    Anyways pull up a chair and stay awhile. >:) :D
  • alexandreaalexandrea Posts: 2,290 Member
    edited December 2
    JoAnne65 wrote: »
    You asked.

    I posted this a while ago between spoiler marks, I’ll post it again, to show why community lots in Sims 3 constantly trigger me and keep me challenged and interested. Here goes.

    My sim arrives at the festival. Nobody there (in this case, quite often there are already sims present because they start going there as soon as I order my sim; when they are closer to the lot they’re there earlier).

    Yeah, those empty lots trigger me. And that's what I hate about TS3... The sims hoard over to a lot once my sim shows up. That's unacceptable. TS3 is severely poorly coded. There's no reason why the game should lag so much when my pc is way above the requirements. Even the CC broke the game in TS3 a lot more often. With TS4 the cc barely breaks my game. I no longer get that dreaded "The Sims 3 has crashed" message while I'm looking at the screen like this :

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