I mean, how do you envision this "asking for our input" stuff going down exactly? They already did that to an extent with the community stuff pack and its dedicated forum, and look where that got them... accusations of it being rigged. What proof are they supposed to offer that they take player input into account? By listening to every request that you personally have?
Developers have enough of a job agreeing with each other, without inviting thousands more to the table. I don't like developers seeming tone deaf either, but the reality is, whether a developer seems tone deaf largely comes down to whether they're living up to your personal expectations/desires.
This so much. It amazes me that people cannot comprehend that just because they want something doesn't mean everyone does. I have no desire to play as chief because I don't care about running businesses. For me that was one thing I liked about Sims 3. You just had a little piece of paper that said you were a business owner. Open for business in Sims 2... Never liked it.
Same logic applies; just because you *dont* want it, why remove it from the game entirely? That’s the entire point. The Sims is a game of options and choices - sorry, but what on EARTH possessed the devs to think it would be ok to remove basic pet needs or not be able to be a CHEF in your own restaurant? On what planet is that even a logical choice? Most restaurant owners I know (and I know several) ALL cook their own food. All of them.
I used to play this game because of all the options it offered me. Now we’re kinda forced to play a certain way because of 1. The way the game is made and 2. Because the community can’t grasp the fact that because something is IN the game in the first place, you *dont* actually have to use it.
—T
Well actually I find Sims 4 to be far more open and flexible than Sims 2 or 3 ever was. Most of the things in Sims 2 I had to mod in to enjoy. And there are quite a few restaurants owners that hire cooks and DO NOT cook in their own establishments. In fact, most do not, hence why there are job openings for cooks and chefs. It is not a matter of taking options out, it simply wasn't there in the first place. But the game is mod friendly as most sims games are. In Sims 2 and Sims 4 I have schools, thanks to mods. Neither game offered these options but since I wanted them for my play I did what was necessary to make it happen. Because well, not everyone wants schools. I believe that there are mods for Dine out that will allow you to hire family for jobs... Go get them. The game can't fill everyone's desire, but they have made it possible for you to act on your own to fill those wants.
Active schools have never been in any sims game so moot point. Cars have though, so have memories, burglars, firemen, step parents that the game actually recognises, cuddling on beds... the most basic of things are gone. Things that made me actually like the game in the first place. TS2 has a closed world and it’ll be more open and flexible than TS4 ever will. And that’s a fact.
—T
ETA; and IMO, if you’re modding the game to make it better EA have already failed. Mods are supposed to enhance what is already there, not add stuff the actual makers of the game should be doing.
Well then all the sims games have failed because all of them have been modded to make them better, none more so than Sims 3. And again you are assuming that your wants are the same as everyone else. Case in point, I don't want or care about cars or burglars, both were tedious and boring for me.
I mean, how do you envision this "asking for our input" stuff going down exactly? They already did that to an extent with the community stuff pack and its dedicated forum, and look where that got them... accusations of it being rigged. What proof are they supposed to offer that they take player input into account? By listening to every request that you personally have?
Developers have enough of a job agreeing with each other, without inviting thousands more to the table. I don't like developers seeming tone deaf either, but the reality is, whether a developer seems tone deaf largely comes down to whether they're living up to your personal expectations/desires.
This so much. It amazes me that people cannot comprehend that just because they want something doesn't mean everyone does. I have no desire to play as chief because I don't care about running businesses. For me that was one thing I liked about Sims 3. You just had a little piece of paper that said you were a business owner. Open for business in Sims 2... Never liked it.
Greetings. I actually comprehend so well I teach it. I think options would be best. I could use your same logic about not wanting to play as chief; doesn't mean everyone else doesn't. The point is, the ability to allow for both was possible, however not done. A la exhibit A: c&d vet career. I don't think my sole voice should be heard, but I can tell you, polling after the fact isn't guaranteeing high quality product
While I agree, I think Sims as we know it is dying. I've had a bad feeling ever since Maxis was moved to the mobile division, especially now that they have two mobile versions of the game. The really weird thing, though, to me is Sims 3 proved that microtransactions worked; the only reason I can think of them not having a store with in-game purchases is because the mobile games are getting the majority of the Sims budgets.
I mean, how do you envision this "asking for our input" stuff going down exactly? They already did that to an extent with the community stuff pack and its dedicated forum, and look where that got them... accusations of it being rigged. What proof are they supposed to offer that they take player input into account? By listening to every request that you personally have?
Developers have enough of a job agreeing with each other, without inviting thousands more to the table. I don't like developers seeming tone deaf either, but the reality is, whether a developer seems tone deaf largely comes down to whether they're living up to your personal expectations/desires.
This so much. It amazes me that people cannot comprehend that just because they want something doesn't mean everyone does. I have no desire to play as chief because I don't care about running businesses. For me that was one thing I liked about Sims 3. You just had a little piece of paper that said you were a business owner. Open for business in Sims 2... Never liked it.
Same logic applies; just because you *dont* want it, why remove it from the game entirely? That’s the entire point. The Sims is a game of options and choices - sorry, but what on EARTH possessed the devs to think it would be ok to remove basic pet needs or not be able to be a CHEF in your own restaurant? On what planet is that even a logical choice? Most restaurant owners I know (and I know several) ALL cook their own food. All of them.
I used to play this game because of all the options it offered me. Now we’re kinda forced to play a certain way because of 1. The way the game is made and 2. Because the community can’t grasp the fact that because something is IN the game in the first place, you *dont* actually have to use it.
—T
Well actually I find Sims 4 to be far more open and flexible than Sims 2 or 3 ever was. Most of the things in Sims 2 I had to mod in to enjoy. And there are quite a few restaurants owners that hire cooks and DO NOT cook in their own establishments. In fact, most do not, hence why there are job openings for cooks and chefs. It is not a matter of taking options out, it simply wasn't there in the first place. But the game is mod friendly as most sims games are. In Sims 2 and Sims 4 I have schools, thanks to mods. Neither game offered these options but since I wanted them for my play I did what was necessary to make it happen. Because well, not everyone wants schools. I believe that there are mods for Dine out that will allow you to hire family for jobs... Go get them. The game can't fill everyone's desire, but they have made it possible for you to act on your own to fill those wants.
Active schools have never been in any sims game so moot point. Cars have though, so have memories, burglars, firemen, step parents that the game actually recognises, cuddling on beds... the most basic of things are gone. Things that made me actually like the game in the first place. TS2 has a closed world and it’ll be more open and flexible than TS4 ever will. And that’s a fact.
—T
ETA; and IMO, if you’re modding the game to make it better EA have already failed. Mods are supposed to enhance what is already there, not add stuff the actual makers of the game should be doing.
Well then all the sims games have failed because all of them have been modded to make them better, none more so than Sims 3. And again you are assuming that your wants are the same as everyone else. Case in point, I don't want or care about cars or burglars, both were tedious and boring for me.
And again, it’s not about what you, or I or anyone wants. It’s about the staple of the game; the things that make it ‘the sims’, things it’s *known* for. I have no feelings about burglars in particular, but they *should* be in the game.
So again, you’re making a moot point. I don’t especially like elders, but I wouldn’t want them removed. They should be in game regardless of what anybody thinks, devs included. That’s the WHOLE POINT of the game.
You make it about you and what you want, I don’t care what you want. I care about the things that make this game recognisable as a SIMS game. Period. That includes burglars, toddlers memories and everything else people are so fixated about saying they don’t want. It’s really just that simple.
I used to play this game because of all the options it offered me. Now we’re kinda forced to play a certain way because of 1. The way the game is made and 2. Because the community can’t grasp the fact that because something is IN the game in the first place, you *dont* actually have to use it.
You don't have to even talk about game play to see wanted features poorly implemented.
I remember during Sims 3 days the cry for more clutter items. I was delighted when I first opened Sims 4 to see a "clutter folder" but that delight soon faded when I realised there were no more slots to implement said clutter or that only about 3 items could go on shelves (without cheating).
There is a search feature in buy/build mode which is great till you realise many items have names that don't state what they actually are making searching difficult.
There's a sort by style except that most of the styles have either nothing or very little in the style. There is one style I've never heard of and nor has Google it seems.
The footprints on plants are oversized when you consider that plants grow amongst each other. We shouldn't have to cheat to place plants close to each other or place a tree on top of a groundcover.
Why do we have a museum? It only seems to be there to fulfill a couple of wants yet we have a collection series going on none of which ties back to the Museum!
I've always thought The Sims to be the best ever concept for a game as it caters to every age and gender but have always thought its' implementation could be better in all the series. It's just that in 1 to 3 there was a difficulty level that made the lack of implementation bearable but Sims 4 is too easy, too boring and too frustrating.
The various concepts that are in the game need to be thought through better imo and not simply thrown in as they so often appear to be. The "devil is in the details" and the details tie things together and require mastering.
I don't play the game anymore except to test my builds and even that is beginning to require a "chill pill" before I start testing.
So, imagine that, but instead of analyzing rocks or asking for DNA samples, all you do is cook. All day.
You get an order for a meal, then you click on the stove, and make your Sim cook that meal. And that's all you do.
Being a chef would've been mind-numbingly boring.
Well, only interacting with your restaurant as a manager is mind numbingly boring as well. Even without the cooking, you already have to do nothing but clicking -click on a guest to greet them, click on an employee to praise them, etc. etc. Having the option to sometimes cook for your guests for a change would make running a restaurant less tedious. It's not really about the entertainment of it, it's about having options, feeling in control of the business you own and giving other gameplay aspects (like cooking and gardening skill) more purpose - this is what EPs and GPs are supposed to do.
The current team seems to be suffering from a rather concerning lack of creativity IMO. I'm sure there are ways to make restaurant gameplay waaay more interesting than what they offered us, cooking involved or not.
So, imagine that, but instead of analyzing rocks or asking for DNA samples, all you do is cook. All day.
You get an order for a meal, then you click on the stove, and make your Sim cook that meal. And that's all you do.
Being a chef would've been mind-numbingly boring.
To a point yes, to a point no. I personally would have loved to be able to run a family restaurant, where one parent was the host, the other a chef and the teen kids as waitstaff ...
OP your suggestions I agree with. Despite some of the mindless people, that doubt EAs intelligence. These are very obvious choices to include in the game and it is what makes the Sims, the Sims. So, if it's so obvious, then they probably did think about these things and they also would have realised there would be uproar when some of these things were omitted from the game. So you need to ask yourself, why did EA omit sooo much, and continue to omit so much? Is EA unintelligent? Greedy? Greedy, probably. But unintelligent, probably not. Think about all the bugs in the game, right from the beginning, and continue to worsen with each pack. Why are there sooo many bugs with each new pack? and why aren't they fixing most of them.
The answer is simple: Due to the whole making TS4 an online game and them changing their minds and scrambling to re-create the entire game in a year in a half they had to make a whole bunch of sacrifices, and produced a poor base that just doesn't support anything. Hence EP's with not as many features and only coming out once a year, and the continuous flow of bugs any time they release any new features.
It wasn't a 'design choice' to not include toddlers, pools, fireman, burglars (this one though apparently is not included because it can 'scare' players), vehicles, newspaper/paper boy, carpools/school bus, hot tubs, some interactions, many careers, terrain tools, non interactive worlds (i.e. it's a backdrop), not to mention incomplete features and systems. Can you imagine at an EA meeting someone saying, 'Hey guys, let's just not include all these features, just to mix it up. No one will care right?'. They haven't included most of these features at the beginning because of time constraints, and they continue not to include many features 'not because they want to focus on the 'sims' or 'pets' themselves, but because TS4 can't handle it. None of the big bugs are being fixed, or will ever be fixed because they can't fix them. They would have to re-program the entire base game. It's just not doable, within their budget or profitable.
So as much you or I, or even the developers themselves would like the option for many of these things in TS4, they just can't do it.
Unfortunately everyone is going to have to wait till TS5 to get a seat at the table.
I often find myself comparing Jagex and Maxis when it comes to the incorporation of community feedback. In 2012, Jagex (the company that makes Runescape) introduced a new combat system to the game called Evolution of Combat. There was an enormous outcry among the community about how the combat mechanics had been changed without their consultation and how it devalued combat in the game. Thousands upon thousands of players left and Runescape has never reached the peak of membership they had before EoC. To this day, comments on the Runescape Facebook page are full of complaints about the changes made in 2012.
So, what did Jagex do in the face of this huge backlash to a change to the game which completely backfired? Since 2012, the developers have become much more open about their development process. They regularly preview the content they are working on and adjust the development of this content if players in their official forums raise serious concerns about how it will affect the game. In-game community polls are sometimes only open to paying members (Runescape operates on a monthly subscription basis for those who want additional content to the free version of the game) but anyone is able to leave feedback on the forums or Reddit, the two places the team most regularly check for feedback. They've started an annual poll asking players to prioritize which updates they'd like to see next (e.g. weather versus a new location) and what sort of update schedule they'd like to see (i.e. several smaller updates in a year versus a few bigger updates). Although the combat issue continues to dog them, they have added many options for players who want to play with the old mechanics, from Old School Runescape (a version of the game based on the 2007 version which is just as popular today as the current version) to Legacy Combat Mode (which allows players to play the new game with the old combat system).
Jagex and EA are two very different companies, and Runescape and the Sims are very different games. However, with the monthly patch schedule, the Sims 4 is starting to resemble an online game's model more than previous installments in the franchise did. Compared to the transparency of Jagex, EA's secrecy and opaqueness are puzzling to observe.
I often find myself comparing Jagex and Maxis when it comes to the incorporation of community feedback. In 2012, Jagex (the company that makes Runescape) introduced a new combat system to the game called Evolution of Combat. There was an enormous outcry among the community about how the combat mechanics had been changed without their consultation and how it devalued combat in the game. Thousands upon thousands of players left and Runescape has never reached the peak of membership they had before EoC. To this day, comments on the Runescape Facebook page are full of complaints about the changes made in 2012.
So, what did Jagex do in the face of this huge backlash to a change to the game which completely backfired? Since 2012, the developers have become much more open about their development process. They regularly preview the content they are working on and adjust the development of this content if players in their official forums raise serious concerns about how it will affect the game. In-game community polls are sometimes only open to paying members (Runescape operates on a monthly subscription basis for those who want additional content to the free version of the game) but anyone is able to leave feedback on the forums or Reddit, the two places the team most regularly check for feedback. They've started an annual poll asking players to prioritize which updates they'd like to see next (e.g. weather versus a new location) and what sort of update schedule they'd like to see (i.e. several smaller updates in a year versus a few bigger updates). Although the combat issue continues to dog them, they have added many options for players who want to play with the old mechanics, from Old School Runescape (a version of the game based on the 2007 version which is just as popular today as the current version) to Legacy Combat Mode (which allows players to play the new game with the old combat system).
Jagex and EA are two very different companies, and Runescape and the Sims are very different games. However, with the monthly patch schedule, the Sims 4 is starting to resemble an online game's model more than previous installments in the franchise did. Compared to the transparency of Jagex, EA's secrecy and opaqueness are puzzling to observe.
Very interesting post. I don't play MMOs so I always find the perspective of this genres players insightful. If Maxis wants to call TS live service (which they've done before, multiple times I believe) they need to educate themselves on how to do it right and that sometimes a little more transparency and communication with fans goes a long way. At this point it's just shocking to me how much they're damaging their own business, I'm no marketing expert but their approach to players makes so little sense I'm getting a headache whenever I think about it. How do you just proceed to ignore millions of people who directly tell you what they want to pay for? How is guessing what they MIGHT want to pay for more effective?
Very interesting post. I don't play MMOs so I always find the perspective of this genres players insightful. If Maxis wants to call TS live service (which they've done before, multiple times I believe) they need to educate themselves on how to do it right and that sometimes a little more transparency and communication with fans goes a long way. At this point it's just shocking to me how much they're damaging their own business, I'm no marketing expert but their approach to players makes so little sense I'm getting a headache whenever I think about it. How do you just proceed to ignore millions of people who directly tell you what they want to pay for? How is guessing what they MIGHT want to pay for more effective?
To be fair, I've played a number of different MMOs and in my experience, there is nearly always an effort going on where the players are trying to get more communication. Sometimes it works and the company becomes better at communication, though usually not strongly and consistently; the tendency is for them to improve for a while and then fall off.
In Maxis's case, I know there's some legal redtape at work, just not sure how much. Cause they have stated that stuff coming in a free patch can't be talked about until the financial quarter that it's coming in has started. Most of the rest could just be studio policy. It's hard to say without them telling us what's going on.
Also, studios do use metrics to help them measure stuff without direct feedback, though such information can be misinterpreted. This is a great article on Star Wars Galaxies from Raph Koster:
While the whole “influencer” program has gone under numerous changes over the years and management such as @SimGuruDrake ‘s involvement, one thing has remained the same both then and now.
It is still nothing more than a mere, inefficient promotional program solely for EA to be inclusive only those who advertise for them. I’ve dismissed it since its creation.
So, imagine that, but instead of analyzing rocks or asking for DNA samples, all you do is cook. All day.
You get an order for a meal, then you click on the stove, and make your Sim cook that meal. And that's all you do.
Being a chef would've been mind-numbingly boring.
To you maybe. Besides, it could have been an automated process if you wanted it to be, someone orders something and the waiter puts it in and the chef prepares it. It could have worked identically to how it does now, just with your sims in the roles instead. It's all about choices.
I respect what you are saying and agree with everything you said, however, we've had these conversations before with SimGuruDrake who is supposed to relay to the team what players want in their games. And we have been told in blunt terms they do focus groups, they speak to players who never come to the Twitter or forums to hear from them and this community (forums) is not the only voice and they get their ideas from many different venues and players who never really speak out much. And that the forum community is not the majority and were reminded we are not the voice of the majority of the Simming community. But then, that leaves the question like it always does, if that is all true, then why would players of the series ever tell them it was o.k., yes, sure, leave out being able to cook or wait on tables in DO. You do have to wonder where all these people are, and if they are truly listening to anyone other than their own echo chambers. Dog house is a fine example.
Well if that's the case they are asking the WRONG group of people. I'm with Orkhid 22 with this one - all the way for sure. They should be asking the people who have been playing all the Sims games and still playing and buying the Sims games and who will probably be most likely to keep doing so - don't you think?
According to a poll, about 80% of us on these forums have been playing since Sims 1. So....grats, you already have that.
Even then, I don't like the idea of cutting anyone out. Feedback is feedback. Anyone can bring good suggestions to the table.
So as much you or I, or even the developers themselves would like the option for many of these things in TS4, they just can't do it.
TS4 feels very much like a bad experiment.
Unfortunately everyone is going to have to wait till TS5 to get a seat at the table.
I'm hoping that the flaws in TS4 will lead to a TS5 that is more like what players (especially the adult players) would like. If they'd just listen to those who have been playing for longer, they'd get a much better idea of what worked in which version, and hopefully would be able to combine all the good stuff into the ultimate version of the sims.
I am starting to realize I play a lot more different than the influencers out there. Probably the only two I can think of that play somewhat close to my style are Rory and Zylria. I am glad SimGuruSteve did start the #BobSquad community. It does help to give Simmers that may be afraid to speak a safer environment to talk about Sim related things.
I do have have my doubts at times thinking Gurus and Maxis aren't listening, then I see some of the ideas mentioned by myself or others come about. Like I've asked for console versions of the Sims, it was released this year. I asked for toddlers, it was released this year. I asked for a Sims store, it was released this year. There are still things I would like, so I probably won't stop coming up with new ideas and bringing up ones that have already be mentioned. I guess my advice, Simmers shouldn't stop asking for things for the Sims 4 even if they feel like no one is listening or feel bullied to be quiet about it. It might take years to happen. Persevere through the trolling and think about the future of the Sims. Even if some stuff never happens for the Sims 4, I think the future for the franchise itself is important. At least SimCity has proven that ignoring customers completely doesn't work and neither does having an online only game for this genre especially since EA is kind of getting known for having server issues beyond just that game. I just hope if they try the online approach again, they do it for a side game so that it doesn't effect the development of the PC series again. That was just a poor move. I don't know how I feel about the idea of Sims going VR, but two things I do hope happen for the next iteration to help it grow are gradual aging and height adjustments.
“Although the world is full of suffering, it is full also of the overcoming of it.” –Helen Keller
I've never thought EA lacked for ideas ..to me the problem lies in the implementation. Too often it feels like a game with great ideas that don't mesh together.
While I agree, I think Sims as we know it is dying. I've had a bad feeling ever since Maxis was moved to the mobile division, especially now that they have two mobile versions of the game. The really weird thing, though, to me is Sims 3 proved that microtransactions worked; the only reason I can think of them not having a store with in-game purchases is because the mobile games are getting the majority of the Sims budgets.
Maxis has technically just Sims 4 mobile - Sims 3 mobile and Free Play are or were made by a different EA studio - not Maxis. Not even in the USA - lol. EA has a lot of mobile games and a lot of mobiles studios as well partnering studios as well. They are not new at this at all. Even Will Wright does mobile games now.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
In dreams - I LIVE!
In REALITY, I simply exist.....
Quite agree with the main ideas in this topic: the game base engine is flawed/inflexible due to its online game origins, so there is a lot in the way of features/repairs that can't be done; the company does not want to admit it, so secrecy and off-putting are the order of the day; they care primarily about the player segment that is happy with surface fluff; veterans that want depth in features/gameplay and bugs/messes dealt with are like peasants - needed but ignored. Well, disgruntled peasants have a habit of eventually rebelling, so maybe it's time to stop buying their fluffy and broken poo-doo until the legitimate concerns of the seasoned and mature players are addressed. Some honesty and openness would help as well, not to mention a less imperious attitude towards those who pay the freight.
I've never thought EA lacked for ideas ..to me the problem lies in the implementation. Too often it feels like a game with great ideas that don't mesh together.
That's a good point.
It's like there's no over all continuity editor. No one seems to be supervising how things are added. Things are just thrown in, with no though of how they fit with other things.
In the creation of a movie, there'd be a story board. But with TS4, it feels like a bunch of scenes that don't quite fit together.
Yeah, like a movie, with multiple directors, and no one in charge of the overall vision.
I play MMOs (Mostly WoW these days). It makes me think that the engine they have can not handle things. Wow is massive and I can not even start to grasp the coding for that. If Sims 4 doesn't have a engine problem, then somebody needs to hire some real coders. I can most certainly compare the these two games. Backgrounds ( a whole lot in Sims 4), coded NPCs with tasks, linear gameplay (Do this to achieve this), and etc. This is about mechanics not actual gameplay. Wow has millions of NPCs that do certain tasks (not just quest), that are coded to do this over and over, with the exception of a slight change in said task now and then.. a code. World of Warcraft is HUGE and getting more so soon. They have changed their base game (saying the base can not be done is not true).. a massive change to everything, while still allowing subs to play. Sims 4 has no open world and tons of load screens (see where I am going?). Wow also has load screens but no where near as massive as Sims 4. Quest..well I see quests in Sims 4 more so than any previous version..
So, in the end of all this rambling (remember mechanics).. Either Sims 4 has a very poor mobile like engine or the coders are not up to par. Either/or makes for a very buggy and broken game.
And I have played all version even the side version (Pet Story, Castaways, Medieval, and etc). And before they seemed to listen to their community even in the forums. We may not be the majority, but we are customers none the less..and as for the new age they are trying to get, I know none that are interested in EA or anything from EA. I am joked about because I still play EA games..So, maybe they should do what the OP ask. Maybe they should listen...
I mean, how do you envision this "asking for our input" stuff going down exactly? They already did that to an extent with the community stuff pack and its dedicated forum, and look where that got them... accusations of it being rigged. What proof are they supposed to offer that they take player input into account? By listening to every request that you personally have?
Developers have enough of a job agreeing with each other, without inviting thousands more to the table. I don't like developers seeming tone deaf either, but the reality is, whether a developer seems tone deaf largely comes down to whether they're living up to your personal expectations/desires.
This so much. It amazes me that people cannot comprehend that just because they want something doesn't mean everyone does. I have no desire to play as chief because I don't care about running businesses. For me that was one thing I liked about Sims 3. You just had a little piece of paper that said you were a business owner. Open for business in Sims 2... Never liked it.
Same logic applies; just because you *dont* want it, why remove it from the game entirely? That’s the entire point. The Sims is a game of options and choices - sorry, but what on EARTH possessed the devs to think it would be ok to remove basic pet needs or not be able to be a CHEF in your own restaurant? On what planet is that even a logical choice? Most restaurant owners I know (and I know several) ALL cook their own food. All of them.
I used to play this game because of all the options it offered me. Now we’re kinda forced to play a certain way because of 1. The way the game is made and 2. Because the community can’t grasp the fact that because something is IN the game in the first place, you *dont* actually have to use it.
—T
Well actually I find Sims 4 to be far more open and flexible than Sims 2 or 3 ever was. Most of the things in Sims 2 I had to mod in to enjoy. And there are quite a few restaurants owners that hire cooks and DO NOT cook in their own establishments. In fact, most do not, hence why there are job openings for cooks and chefs. It is not a matter of taking options out, it simply wasn't there in the first place. But the game is mod friendly as most sims games are. In Sims 2 and Sims 4 I have schools, thanks to mods. Neither game offered these options but since I wanted them for my play I did what was necessary to make it happen. Because well, not everyone wants schools. I believe that there are mods for Dine out that will allow you to hire family for jobs... Go get them. The game can't fill everyone's desire, but they have made it possible for you to act on your own to fill those wants.
Active schools have never been in any sims game so moot point. Cars have though, so have memories, burglars, firemen, step parents that the game actually recognises, cuddling on beds... the most basic of things are gone. Things that made me actually like the game in the first place. TS2 has a closed world and it’ll be more open and flexible than TS4 ever will. And that’s a fact.
—T
ETA; and IMO, if you’re modding the game to make it better EA have already failed. Mods are supposed to enhance what is already there, not add stuff the actual makers of the game should be doing.
Well then all the sims games have failed because all of them have been modded to make them better, none more so than Sims 3. And again you are assuming that your wants are the same as everyone else. Case in point, I don't want or care about cars or burglars, both were tedious and boring for me.
Sims has always been a game for modding.... If they ever stop making their games modable, I will stop buying them..
Yes I agree that modders should not be making mods to fix programming errors..
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Well then all the sims games have failed because all of them have been modded to make them better, none more so than Sims 3. And again you are assuming that your wants are the same as everyone else. Case in point, I don't want or care about cars or burglars, both were tedious and boring for me.
Greetings. I actually comprehend so well I teach it. I think options would be best. I could use your same logic about not wanting to play as chief; doesn't mean everyone else doesn't. The point is, the ability to allow for both was possible, however not done. A la exhibit A: c&d vet career. I don't think my sole voice should be heard, but I can tell you, polling after the fact isn't guaranteeing high quality product
So, imagine that, but instead of analyzing rocks or asking for DNA samples, all you do is cook. All day.
You get an order for a meal, then you click on the stove, and make your Sim cook that meal. And that's all you do.
Being a chef would've been mind-numbingly boring.
And again, it’s not about what you, or I or anyone wants. It’s about the staple of the game; the things that make it ‘the sims’, things it’s *known* for. I have no feelings about burglars in particular, but they *should* be in the game.
So again, you’re making a moot point. I don’t especially like elders, but I wouldn’t want them removed. They should be in game regardless of what anybody thinks, devs included. That’s the WHOLE POINT of the game.
You make it about you and what you want, I don’t care what you want. I care about the things that make this game recognisable as a SIMS game. Period. That includes burglars, toddlers memories and everything else people are so fixated about saying they don’t want. It’s really just that simple.
—T
There's a HUGE issue with this in the community.
I remember during Sims 3 days the cry for more clutter items. I was delighted when I first opened Sims 4 to see a "clutter folder" but that delight soon faded when I realised there were no more slots to implement said clutter or that only about 3 items could go on shelves (without cheating).
There is a search feature in buy/build mode which is great till you realise many items have names that don't state what they actually are making searching difficult.
There's a sort by style except that most of the styles have either nothing or very little in the style. There is one style I've never heard of and nor has Google it seems.
The footprints on plants are oversized when you consider that plants grow amongst each other. We shouldn't have to cheat to place plants close to each other or place a tree on top of a groundcover.
Why do we have a museum? It only seems to be there to fulfill a couple of wants yet we have a collection series going on none of which ties back to the Museum!
I've always thought The Sims to be the best ever concept for a game as it caters to every age and gender but have always thought its' implementation could be better in all the series. It's just that in 1 to 3 there was a difficulty level that made the lack of implementation bearable but Sims 4 is too easy, too boring and too frustrating.
The various concepts that are in the game need to be thought through better imo and not simply thrown in as they so often appear to be. The "devil is in the details" and the details tie things together and require mastering.
I don't play the game anymore except to test my builds and even that is beginning to require a "chill pill" before I start testing.
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Well, only interacting with your restaurant as a manager is mind numbingly boring as well. Even without the cooking, you already have to do nothing but clicking -click on a guest to greet them, click on an employee to praise them, etc. etc. Having the option to sometimes cook for your guests for a change would make running a restaurant less tedious. It's not really about the entertainment of it, it's about having options, feeling in control of the business you own and giving other gameplay aspects (like cooking and gardening skill) more purpose - this is what EPs and GPs are supposed to do.
The current team seems to be suffering from a rather concerning lack of creativity IMO. I'm sure there are ways to make restaurant gameplay waaay more interesting than what they offered us, cooking involved or not.
To a point yes, to a point no. I personally would have loved to be able to run a family restaurant, where one parent was the host, the other a chef and the teen kids as waitstaff ...
The answer is simple: Due to the whole making TS4 an online game and them changing their minds and scrambling to re-create the entire game in a year in a half they had to make a whole bunch of sacrifices, and produced a poor base that just doesn't support anything. Hence EP's with not as many features and only coming out once a year, and the continuous flow of bugs any time they release any new features.
It wasn't a 'design choice' to not include toddlers, pools, fireman, burglars (this one though apparently is not included because it can 'scare' players), vehicles, newspaper/paper boy, carpools/school bus, hot tubs, some interactions, many careers, terrain tools, non interactive worlds (i.e. it's a backdrop), not to mention incomplete features and systems. Can you imagine at an EA meeting someone saying, 'Hey guys, let's just not include all these features, just to mix it up. No one will care right?'. They haven't included most of these features at the beginning because of time constraints, and they continue not to include many features 'not because they want to focus on the 'sims' or 'pets' themselves, but because TS4 can't handle it. None of the big bugs are being fixed, or will ever be fixed because they can't fix them. They would have to re-program the entire base game. It's just not doable, within their budget or profitable.
So as much you or I, or even the developers themselves would like the option for many of these things in TS4, they just can't do it.
Unfortunately everyone is going to have to wait till TS5 to get a seat at the table.
So, what did Jagex do in the face of this huge backlash to a change to the game which completely backfired? Since 2012, the developers have become much more open about their development process. They regularly preview the content they are working on and adjust the development of this content if players in their official forums raise serious concerns about how it will affect the game. In-game community polls are sometimes only open to paying members (Runescape operates on a monthly subscription basis for those who want additional content to the free version of the game) but anyone is able to leave feedback on the forums or Reddit, the two places the team most regularly check for feedback. They've started an annual poll asking players to prioritize which updates they'd like to see next (e.g. weather versus a new location) and what sort of update schedule they'd like to see (i.e. several smaller updates in a year versus a few bigger updates). Although the combat issue continues to dog them, they have added many options for players who want to play with the old mechanics, from Old School Runescape (a version of the game based on the 2007 version which is just as popular today as the current version) to Legacy Combat Mode (which allows players to play the new game with the old combat system).
Jagex and EA are two very different companies, and Runescape and the Sims are very different games. However, with the monthly patch schedule, the Sims 4 is starting to resemble an online game's model more than previous installments in the franchise did. Compared to the transparency of Jagex, EA's secrecy and opaqueness are puzzling to observe.
Add Manage Neighbourhood Options - assign your own Sim to NPC jobs!
The Problems with Death in The Sims 4
Distinguish Elder gameplay with Elder-only reward traits
Filter Rugs by Room Size
Very interesting post. I don't play MMOs so I always find the perspective of this genres players insightful. If Maxis wants to call TS live service (which they've done before, multiple times I believe) they need to educate themselves on how to do it right and that sometimes a little more transparency and communication with fans goes a long way. At this point it's just shocking to me how much they're damaging their own business, I'm no marketing expert but their approach to players makes so little sense I'm getting a headache whenever I think about it. How do you just proceed to ignore millions of people who directly tell you what they want to pay for? How is guessing what they MIGHT want to pay for more effective?
In Maxis's case, I know there's some legal redtape at work, just not sure how much. Cause they have stated that stuff coming in a free patch can't be talked about until the financial quarter that it's coming in has started. Most of the rest could just be studio policy. It's hard to say without them telling us what's going on.
Also, studios do use metrics to help them measure stuff without direct feedback, though such information can be misinterpreted. This is a great article on Star Wars Galaxies from Raph Koster:
https://www.raphkoster.com/2015/04/27/did-star-wars-galaxies-fail/
It mentions metrics at some point and talks a little about how the misinterpretation of metrics led them astray sometimes.
While the whole “influencer” program has gone under numerous changes over the years and management such as @SimGuruDrake ‘s involvement, one thing has remained the same both then and now.
It is still nothing more than a mere, inefficient promotional program solely for EA to be inclusive only those who advertise for them. I’ve dismissed it since its creation.
To you maybe. Besides, it could have been an automated process if you wanted it to be, someone orders something and the waiter puts it in and the chef prepares it. It could have worked identically to how it does now, just with your sims in the roles instead. It's all about choices.
According to a poll, about 80% of us on these forums have been playing since Sims 1. So....grats, you already have that.
Even then, I don't like the idea of cutting anyone out. Feedback is feedback. Anyone can bring good suggestions to the table.
Get players from different places, bouncing ideas off each other.
It's actually.... a lot like the ideas part of the forum.
What they need is people to sort the good ideas from the chaff
TS4 feels very much like a bad experiment.
I'm hoping that the flaws in TS4 will lead to a TS5 that is more like what players (especially the adult players) would like. If they'd just listen to those who have been playing for longer, they'd get a much better idea of what worked in which version, and hopefully would be able to combine all the good stuff into the ultimate version of the sims.
I do have have my doubts at times thinking Gurus and Maxis aren't listening, then I see some of the ideas mentioned by myself or others come about. Like I've asked for console versions of the Sims, it was released this year. I asked for toddlers, it was released this year. I asked for a Sims store, it was released this year. There are still things I would like, so I probably won't stop coming up with new ideas and bringing up ones that have already be mentioned. I guess my advice, Simmers shouldn't stop asking for things for the Sims 4 even if they feel like no one is listening or feel bullied to be quiet about it. It might take years to happen. Persevere through the trolling and think about the future of the Sims. Even if some stuff never happens for the Sims 4, I think the future for the franchise itself is important. At least SimCity has proven that ignoring customers completely doesn't work and neither does having an online only game for this genre especially since EA is kind of getting known for having server issues beyond just that game. I just hope if they try the online approach again, they do it for a side game so that it doesn't effect the development of the PC series again. That was just a poor move. I don't know how I feel about the idea of Sims going VR, but two things I do hope happen for the next iteration to help it grow are gradual aging and height adjustments.
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Maxis has technically just Sims 4 mobile - Sims 3 mobile and Free Play are or were made by a different EA studio - not Maxis. Not even in the USA - lol. EA has a lot of mobile games and a lot of mobiles studios as well partnering studios as well. They are not new at this at all. Even Will Wright does mobile games now.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
In dreams - I LIVE!
In REALITY, I simply exist.....
That's a good point.
It's like there's no over all continuity editor. No one seems to be supervising how things are added. Things are just thrown in, with no though of how they fit with other things.
In the creation of a movie, there'd be a story board. But with TS4, it feels like a bunch of scenes that don't quite fit together.
Yeah, like a movie, with multiple directors, and no one in charge of the overall vision.
So, in the end of all this rambling (remember mechanics).. Either Sims 4 has a very poor mobile like engine or the coders are not up to par. Either/or makes for a very buggy and broken game.
And I have played all version even the side version (Pet Story, Castaways, Medieval, and etc). And before they seemed to listen to their community even in the forums. We may not be the majority, but we are customers none the less..and as for the new age they are trying to get, I know none that are interested in EA or anything from EA. I am joked about because I still play EA games..So, maybe they should do what the OP ask. Maybe they should listen...
Sims has always been a game for modding.... If they ever stop making their games modable, I will stop buying them..
Yes I agree that modders should not be making mods to fix programming errors..