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Technically Challenging EPs (Pets, Seasons?)
aricarai
Posts: 8,984 Member
I wasn't sure what to title this or even where to put it, but I thought this might be the most relevant place.
In the live stream, I swear I heard Grant say that they'd been working on the EP for quite sometime (maybe years was mentioned) and that it takes so long to bring out a Pets' EP because they have to go back and reanimate everything that's already in the game.
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong in how I heard it, but that left me thinking that if that's the case, why aren't EPs, like Pets (maybe Seasons) some of the first to be made - or in the case of Seasons, put weather in the base game? Wouldn't it be easier to update items as they come out (new content) rather than having to essentially go through 3 years of content to make sure it all works together? Obviously, I have no clue about game development and I'm just speculating here, but it seems like leaving some of the bigger expansion packs until later in the series just creates more work for the developers?
Do you think it could be a marketing thing? Or a time factor - would Pets need to worked on alongside the base game (but isn't that usually the case with first EPs anyway?)
Thoughts?
In the live stream, I swear I heard Grant say that they'd been working on the EP for quite sometime (maybe years was mentioned) and that it takes so long to bring out a Pets' EP because they have to go back and reanimate everything that's already in the game.
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong in how I heard it, but that left me thinking that if that's the case, why aren't EPs, like Pets (maybe Seasons) some of the first to be made - or in the case of Seasons, put weather in the base game? Wouldn't it be easier to update items as they come out (new content) rather than having to essentially go through 3 years of content to make sure it all works together? Obviously, I have no clue about game development and I'm just speculating here, but it seems like leaving some of the bigger expansion packs until later in the series just creates more work for the developers?
Do you think it could be a marketing thing? Or a time factor - would Pets need to worked on alongside the base game (but isn't that usually the case with first EPs anyway?)
Thoughts?
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Comments
Yes they do kind of make more work for themselves in a way because these packs take so long and need to be compatible with previous released packs, but they have to do it that way. If they held off production on every other pack until lets say Cat's and Dog's, for example, was completed we would likely still be left with the base game launch version of the game. I don't think people would have stuck around & EA need to keep people engaged in a game like this for it to do well.
And the reason in my mind that they don't make Pet's and/or Seasons a base game feature (besides from profit) is budget and deadlines. Every DLC has a budget and deadline to align to and it is the same for Base Game. These are two things that Sims 4's base game already lacked significantly hence all of the games cutbacks - Ghosts, pools & toddlers being left out of launch. EA simply didn't give the Gurus the time and budget to do it, let alone add extra gameplay features.
Just my thoughts on it
An ex-producer did say they tried to put weather in the base game (of TS3), but couldn't get it stop snowing inside in time for launch. I'm still holding out hope for the future that they may be able to make this happen. Seasons could be about so much more than just the weather.
You're probably right that C&D has been worked on since the beginning; it just feels like a lot of work for them to do, but perhaps, it would be much more work to have it released as the first EPs.
Edited: for clarity about which base game weather was trying to be added to.
That's interesting, I never knew weather was once intended to be in a Base Game. For Sims 4 I think it was definitely a no-go since they couldn't even complete the base game properly, but maybe they could do it for a future Sims game. The only way I would see that happening though is if there was a few years break between Sims 4 and 5 instead of just one year like usual. Or if Sims 4 had a shorter life span but the guru's have said plenty of times that they have a good future planned for Sims 4 with lots of packs, I don't see it ending anytime soon.
Just a clarification - This was actually about Sims 2, not Sims 4, and it was about rain, not snow. You can read about it here if you'd like :Rain in Sims 2 Base Game
Sorry I should have clarified...I was talking about TS3 when I said that. There was an AMA on reddit with the ex-producer. I'll fix my post.
But I think it is pretty impossible for them to have Seasons from the start. It's an expansion that probably takes years to make. And for them to create such an EP, they need an actual base game to build on. So EA would have to have the base game ready a few years in advance? I'm not an expert, just speculating.
It would be ideal if Seasons could be implemented in the base game in TS5. I think that could be less struggle for the development team, but they probably miss some profit by doing that.
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If the reason why The Sims is still a production made of several packs can't be the main motivation that leads producer to still cross this path.
If I'd be in the team, I would think about releasing a base game with all the features that made The Sims the precious thing it is and releasing always different packs.
For example:
The PERFECT Sims Base Game would include all life stages (from newborn to elder); it would include weather, season, businesses and works. And this just because it's now 20 years that we use and expect to have those features. Does this mean you gave everything in a base game? NOPE.
This means that you have PLENTY of chance to create amazing new packages that are not missing pieces of a premade puzzle: this means that you are creating something really ENGAGING that I can't wait to buy because it is new and will take me glued to the PC all day.
That said, The Sims is a money making machine. I would be yet working on TS5, to be honest, and I would work on it for years just to deliver a full base game and to sell a very complete product that can be upgraded with every new pack.
And to reply to the thread's title: yes, making PETS or SEASON is technically challenging FOR SURE but it is not something that would lead me to justify certain decisions taken by TS team and marketing division.
(that's all folks, aaaand sorry for my bad english!)
Very well said! I completely agree and these have been my same thoughts for a while now. People are tired of having to buy the same stuff over and over BUT we still want that content in the game. I honestly think if Sims 5 doesn't include weather in the base game, I won't even be getting it. It should just be there. Seasons wouldn't necessarily have to be base game, but at the very least it should rain some times. I don't care if this delays the release of Sims 5. I would wait for that base game that made me truly love the Sims again. And I would definitely buy the expansion content if it was new and interesting in some way. I haven't enjoyed Pets in the past three versions, so why would I bother with that again? I will wait for a sale to get it, IF I buy it at all. Something like Pets will probably always be expansion content, but they could easily include small pets in a base game and Dogs, cats, etc later on. Anyway yes, I think even something challenging like weather should be included in future base games.
THIS ^^ This is exactly what I mean!
Oh and for anyone that's interested, the references for weather in the base game for TS3 are discussed here with a link to the source in that thread.
I feel the same exact way! I would totally wait for a full, enriched, complete base game!
Sorry, I should have clarified that I meant weather in the base game. The Seasons EP could be about so much more than weather, so I think it (weather) should be in the base game! I don't know if it would be harder or more time consuming to have to code everything new that comes out (if weather was in base game) or code everything that's already in the game (if weather came with a Season EP later in the series).
Sims 2 was supposed to have rain and storms in the base game, and one trailer even showed it. But there was a bug they couldn't fix, so they had to remove it until Seasons.
So yeah, if they could've included rain in Sims 2's base, I think it's fair game for a future title's base. Right now I don't think they'd do that, but it's in the realm of possibility.
Edit: Here's a clip of the beta version of Sims 2 in 2003. Rain appears around the 7-minute mark.
Race Against the Clock: Can your elder sim turn back the clock before their time runs out?
It was rain. Rain was going to be in the base game, not snow or any other seasons or weather.
They take years to make. Pets likely started production at the same time as base game launched. If we waited then we wouldnt even have Sims 4 yet, and the game would cost over a hundred dollars.
Maybe in TS2 @Zeldaboy180, but TS3 was snow.
Oh.
Sounds ideal but rather unrealistic. There will always be a budget and a deadline, people, unless we're talking about GTA haha
To me, I don't think that getting the traditional stuff from the start would be enough if the base game is not fun in itself. We could have pets, seasons and even supernaturals there but it won't matter if it doesn't make a compelling whole. The Sims 2 did it very well, compared with Sims 3 base game, as an example, that had 10x more features and yet felt incomplete. Quality overcomes quantity and a good creative direction means we need less of the latter to get the first.
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I promise you, it was rain. They had issues with rain spawning in doors which would cause puddles inside, even through roofs.
Okay @Zeldaboy180, I was just going off of the link I posted above with the AMA on reddit from the ex-producer, but if you say rain, that's fine too. The point is, they tried to put weather, something other than sun, in the base game!
I've played Sims since Sims 1 and I cant believe its took this long to get to this point in the game I love the Sims 4 and ilove where its heading but its just taking a long time to get to where it needs to be