Since this is a space for feedback, I thought I'd give my 2 cents. Sorry ahead of time for the upcoming rant....
This has probably been stated before, but the length of time customers have to wait for basic gameplay features and objects has become disastrous for this iteration of the Sims.
I recently started play this game after several months of not playing it, and I realized there was nothing to do. After over 500 hours of playing this game, I had run out of thing to do. My sims had completed multiple aspirations, developed friendships, romances, had numerous affairs, finished all the careers and jobs, owned and ran businesses, been to space and back, joined a multitude of clubs and completed multiple skills. And I felt no desire to repeat any of this again. The towns of Oasis Springs, Willow Creek and Windenburg felt boring to me (not from poor design, but from over familiarity with them). I have all the game packs and expansion packs. Even packs with solid gameplay (such as Parenting or Vampires) were not enough to sustain my interest for that long.
I feel that there simply is not enough content in the game after 3 years to sustain a person's interest. We only having 2 supernaturals, 1 vacation destination, no burglars, firemen, university, cars, fewer aspirations and traits than any of the other series so far, no attraction system, reputation system, system of likes/dislikes, and terrain tools. And I didn't even mention everything that SHOULD BE in the game at this point. I realize things like Seasons and Pets take longer, but the majority of the things I mentioned SHOULD BE in the game by now.
I'm not trying to bash the game and say there's nothing good about it. I've enjoyed the game considerably and think there are great things about it. However, the length of time it take to produce substantial content is ridiculous and is leaving people waiting and bored. I'm not the only one who feels this way either. If you go to the Sims facebook or youtube, the majority of the people who comment state that they are bored with the series, or that they are waiting for Seasons, Pets or whatever. Very few of these comments are ever positive. This is pathetic. I'm not surprised Origin doesn't allow for reviews like Steam does, because I believe the comments would be mostly negative.
And what's worse is when the Expansion Pack that everyone is waiting for end up being lackluster in some way. A prime example of this would be City Living, which had incredible potential, but was ruined by the poorly thought out execution of apartments, which were incredibly limiting and restricted to one world. After being disappointed by things like this, fans were expected to wait a full year in the expectation that the next expansion pack would be better. If there were a more steady flow of content (not just stuff packs, which offer no gameplay value), players would possibly be more forgiving of these types of mistakes, but when there is such an absence of content, it's really devastating. Sadly, I wouldn't be surprised if this happens again with the upcoming expansion.
I believe that continuing this practice will eventually kill any fanbase you ever had. I realize it makes you more money in the long run, but you will loose your fanbase. The constant waiting and boredom are not worth putting up with, and people will find other games to play. Or another company will make a similar game (*cough Cities Skylines cough*) that will completely eclipse this game.
And with the current rate of content being released, how do you expect to complete this game? Do you expect people to wait 5+ years for Seasons, University, all of the Supernaturals, Celebrities and any additional content you want to sell? They won't. And if the Sims 4 is unsuccessful, don't expect a Sims 5.
Unless you ramp up production on Expansion Packs and Game Packs, chill out on pointless Stuff Packs (or better yet eliminate them altogether), I don't foresee The Sims having any fanbase at the end of its run.
.....end rant.
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I'd rather have them do a few less half-baked Stuff Packs (like Bowling, Toddlers, Fitness) and give us a new Vacation GP instead. But come on EA!
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I also agree a lot of stuff should be already in it at this point, my critisism is that EA should hire more teams.
There are only three if I'm correct, one for each pack.
Players want more EP's so why not 2 teams for EP's like TS3 had? So they could bring out 2 a year again.
Yes that costs more of the budget but I think the budget for the packs should be even higher.
I mean the economic crisis is declining.
More EP's = more happy players and that = more money for EA. So it is again more budget for even better packs and so on and so on.
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SP, EP and GP teams. What are the other two?
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I think the patch and support team or something.
I think if the formula were this simple, we'd have a plethora of packs already.
I wish EA would realize this, but I think they prefer quantity versus quality. Shoving half-baked Stuff Packs at us every month with no discernible gameplay in sight is easier and cheaper than making a Game Pack or Expansion Pack with substantial gameplay. I also think the budget EA gives Maxis is very low, even when the game is doing better financially than before. I frequently hear some of the gurus say how they had to cut certain things out of the game because of their "budget."
I agree, I loved Parenthood,I think it was probably one of the best packs of the Sims 4. I feel like so much of the stuff they release is just fluff, clothes, obnoxiously large furniture, unusable decor. Even in the Expansion Packs, there is so much "stuff," and the gameplay always feels secondary. I mean, how many actual new social interactions did we get with City Living? Maybe a handful. Lot traits were added, but the more interesting ones were restricted to a couple of apartments, and the other ones are fairly pointless. I feel like Cats and Dogs will be similar, unfortunately. Lots of "stuff" with gameplay mixed in, although I must admit the vet career sounds promising.
The other two main teams are for the live service - the bug, patch and repair team that Sim Guru Nick and SGArwin is in charge of, and the rather large free content team.
The teams also do not include the engineers, the animators, and the fx people either that works with all the teams.
Those 5 teams are not even counting the community management team or the web team - or even the teams working with the Sims 4 mobile and the new team under Sim Guru Duke working with Blind Squirrel on the Sims 4 console.
Maxis is huge and the teams are pretty big.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
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You are right as we had more teams, more frequent eps during Sims 3, and even the Store and all people did is complain. So now they are doing what people screamed they wanted during Sims 3 and the first 2 years of Sims 4 - which was less packs and better quality - with no rushed eps - and people still complain. LOL.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
In dreams - I LIVE!
In REALITY, I simply exist.....
And yes, when EP's come out, there is always some sort of limitation or something really bad about them.
I appreciate Game Packs the most this time, simply because they are really focused and in depth when it comes to the theme. I think that is a sad thing, because EP's are supposed to bring the ''big gameplay'' to the game, and so far, to me, they have been really underwhelming.
It's not like I'm a fan of every single Game Pack though. Game Packs such as Spa Day and Outdoor Retreat, I personally barely use, but Parenthood is my favorite GP so far.
Stuff Packs, well, I am not against having SP's, but I think SP's really do take ''the spotlight'' this time around, and I think the amount of SP's is overkill. I appreciate the idea of bringing some SP's to the table with content that is not planned for future EP's/GP's, but for example things such as Bowling, or even a Butler and Hottubs, would also have been perfects fits for normal EP's.
I have to say; I am looking forward to the Cats and Dogs EP, I really do. To me, from what I have seen so far, will this be the best EP so far. I say that with some reservations in mind, because I know we basically don't know that much about the EP yet to really give a 100% solid opinion, and considering all the EP's so far had severe drawbacks too, I am looking forward to find out more about this EP.
I really hate the fact though, that, at this rate, we have to wait another whole year for Seasons to MAYBE make its way to the game. I really find the wait tedious for such (to me) vital things. I always enjoyed Weather/Seasons the most, simply because of the fact that it changes the whole atmosphere of the game. It adds some sense of ''time'' (realism/diversity).
I just hope they won't make us wait that long anymore for Seasons, because waiting 4 years! (if we assume they will be there around Nov 2018) is really too long imo. The only thing I really want from Seasons is the Weather. I don't care about having festivals. Just the Weather will do for me.
Well, we will find out soon enough. The next Quarterly Teaser isn't that far away anymore, maybe, just maybe, they will surprise us.
But don't count on it.
Also, I do not mind stuff Packs but the quality of those has diminished considerably to the point where I find even $10 to be a high price. I guess the ball pit in toddler stuff is kind of the epitome of what the game has fallen to in terms of quality. It was so poor they had to patch in a slightly better looking ball pit to appease the masses (and I'm much happier with it, but that's beside the point). It's hard to have patience waiting for new content when I'm not convinced the quality is worth waiting for.
Again, I do not hate the game at all. I think there are some great aspects to The Sims 4 that maybe even gives it potential to be more interesting to me than previous sims games. Yet it continues to fall short. And I feel that 3 years in, it shouldn't still be labelled as "has potential". It should be much closer to the game fans have been waiting for
The same goes with Get to Work if retail did not seem to be a afterthought and was done right like Sims 2 I would never get bored of it as it is now I've only used it once. They need to give a reason to use features in the expansions clothing stores in Sims 4 is not an experiance by default all clothing is unlocked... no changing rooms or clothing racks and as I mentioned all clothing is unlocked cant even buy a unique outfit they simply put no effort we shop off a manaquin to me thats just crazy/lazy and are chased by Sims with tablets.
So yeah I agree everything is slow and sadly the year wait does not seem to give us a great end product anyway.
I do not know how big the teams are and what the budget is for each pack, and maybe that's not my business to know.
All the packs are not bad persé, it just could've been done a little better. (With more budget that would be possible then.)
The game packs are brilliant, my favorites are Spa Day and Parenthood. Outdoor Retreat could've been done better but that's the first pack of it's kind so I don't blame the devs too much for that.
But on to the EP's. All the idea's are great and wonderful. E.g the active careers from Get To Work are better than the professions in TS3 imho, but again even with those there's something off. The co-workers for example don't do anything useful but annoying the heck out of you.
The apartments, again great idea, but why limit them to one world? I don't mind that you can't customize them that much but I actually wanted to plonk down apartments in my Newcrest and go from there.
They showed they can do it. With Get Together I don't have any complaints with. Windenburg is a beautiful world and the club system is great for your sims to make friends a lot easier.
As I've said in another thread, I'm also bothered by the fact that many things are so abnormally large. The observatory and the microscope for example.
If they added an extra smaller version of a normal telescope or table microscope it would be fine.
I don't hate the game at all, it's my favorite out of all four. I just thinks some things could've been redefined
I don't hate the developers either, I follow a lot of them on twitter and I know they're wonderful people with wonderful ideas. I just wish they had more budget to develop those ideas, that's all.
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I mean the sims 4 is three years old and the only expansions we have had is get to work, get together and city living. Far too many stuff packs and several game packs. Sadly I don't think taking stuff packs out the equation will make expansions better in terms of quality. And in a sense the business model of endless stuff packs only works because people will pay for it and EA know it. Look at how many people for example that have said they don't mind the next EP being cats and dogs only. They are willing to pay for small pets separately and EA know it. Look at how many people wanted bowling? Voila a bowling stuff pack with some admittedly nice cas items but the most annoying and bizarre bowling game in the entire series. (Seriously EA it should not take nearly 10 hours to play one game of bowling!)
I absolutely agree the wait for new content is frustrating and boring. I totally agree it's ridiculous that three years in our sims still live in a world without fire fighters, police officers, burglars, repo men, proper social workers, car pools, school buses, cars, paperboys/girls and even darn doorbells.
The key to the game I have found is low expectations, that way you won't be disappointed if it doesn't live up to the hype.
> Less packs better quality is subjective though. Also depends on a person's pc or lap top specifications, let's be honest. Someone may think get to work is a good expansion with a fleshed out retail system with excellent active careers. Someone else may think the retail system is simplified and the active careers are broken and repetitive. I don't think City living was worth a years wait. I like the world but I think the apartment "city living" experience is over exaggerated and not as decent as the sims 2 apartments when I compare them in terms of quality, the sims 2 is more fleshed out and realistic. People may not agree and that is fine with me. We are all different.
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> I mean the sims 4 is three years old and the only expansions we have had is get to work, get together and city living. Far too many stuff packs and several game packs. Sadly I don't think taking stuff packs out the equation will make expansions better in terms of quality. And in a sense the business model of endless stuff packs only works because people will pay for it and EA know it. Look at how many people for example that have said they don't mind the next EP being cats and dogs only. They are willing to pay for small pets separately and EA know it. Look at how many people wanted bowling? Voila a bowling stuff pack with some admittedly nice cas items but the most annoying and bizarre bowling game in the entire series. (Seriously EA it should not take nearly 10 hours to play one game of bowling!)
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> I absolutely agree the wait for new content is frustrating and boring. I totally agree it's ridiculous that three years in our sims still live in a world without fire fighters, police officers, burglars, repo men, proper social workers, car pools, school buses, cars, paperboys/girls and even darn doorbells.
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> The key to the game I have found is low expectations, that way you won't be disappointed if it doesn't live up to the hype.
Yeah. The real problem is that we don't have less packs, better quality. We just have less packs, less quality, and a bunch of other filler content. I personally enjoy City Living and Get Together (although they have fundamental problems) and some of the GPs like Parenthood and Vampires, but we have far too many SPs and too long of a wait between expansion packs that are very, very, very lacking in concent and quality compared to TS2 and TS4 packs. At this point nothing released on TS4 makes me hyped. I guess I would be better off waiting for TS5.
The better quality thing - was basically started just last year - so to be fair the Dogs and Cats ep is the first ep to get the full better quality thing. All it benefited the last ep was the delayed time on CL to improve it some - as I heard that big meeting and the changes went into affect near the end of its development - and why CL was delayed from it's original date. But we should see the results with the coming ep - the most. GTW and even GT was before it all.
I know this year so far has been pretty impressive - quality wise - and I look forward to see what the results of the ep ends up myself. I was really impressed with Vamps, Toddlers, and Parenthood.
ETA - Also people cannot blame Maxis on players having shoddy pcs - that is up to the people how well they want their games to play. When I want a game my pc can't handle - well I upgrade my pcs and rebuild them from the bottom up. Other game companies do not cater to people who choose low end pc - I know and why I run such a higher end pc all the time - because I don't just play the Sims. If it was up to me we'd be having the Sims on EA's stellar inhouse game engine where you need a good pc to play their big games. Seriously I ache to see a Sims game on Frostbyte 3 to be honest.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
In dreams - I LIVE!
In REALITY, I simply exist.....
Nope only the ep team works on eps now. SPS have nothing to do with it. You get more sps because they are much faster to make and as soon as they finish one they start on the next - just like the gp teams and ep teams do now.
Getting less sps simply means less content being offered period in Sims 4. Believe me - no one wants less that I know of.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
In dreams - I LIVE!
In REALITY, I simply exist.....
As for what's bothering you, it sounds like it's the type of content being made that is disappointing you, not the frequency of it. I mean, you say certain packs just don't have much pull for you. More of those type of packs more frequently would just be more content for you to reject. Keep in mind you might be feeling some burnout on the series in general, too. I've been there with games many times, where they just aren't delivering because I'm burned out on them and need some away time, or I need to just move on.
(Because someone will probably go there, no, I'm not telling you to move on. I'm just describing my experiences with games. I've played a lot of different games and invested a lot of hours into them, rather obsessively, so I know a little something about burnout. RL circumstances can also have an impact and make something that once seemed amazing taste ashen.)
Oh I totally agree players pc specs is not down to Maxis and they shouldn't use that as a stick to beat them with. Sadly though it happens. You only have to look at how many people say for example "the sims 3 lags constantly, it's unplayable" and even now it's starting to creep in about the sims 4, people complaining about lag etc.
Maybe in 2016, but 2015 & 2017 have had heaps of content.
2015 had 2 GPs & 2 EPs. 2017 had Toddlers patch + 2 GPs & an EP.
Excuse me while I scratch my head wondering where the lack of content is? Being honest, I think we did really well this year.
I would happily give up a EP a year, if it meant such significant improvements to the base game.
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