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Quality over quantity?

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  • TheHarbinger_51TheHarbinger_51 Posts: 1,702 Member
    Sims 4 has neither quality or quantity, so that is that

    Sureee. Sims 4 has no quality. Because you say so. Thats not a statement that should be taken seriously.Ever.

    And Im sure, like always,sims 3 has the "quality" lol.

    Nope, sims 2 has the best quality and quantity of the series. Sims 3 is good too but not as good as sims 2. An EP in ts2 actually gave you real gameplay changing content instead of the so called ''gameplay objects'' and set dressing ts4 packs give you. Ts4 EPs don't make playing the game more fun they just give you animations. For example apartement life added so much stuff to normal gameplay like reputation, social classes, real apartments. Nightlife added an attraction system (turn ons/off), fury, tons of new NPCs. You know stuff that actually makes the game deeper and more fun.

    To each their own, to each their own lol.
  • TriplisTriplis Posts: 3,048 Member
    I think I finally get it. Sims 2 was known for adding new gameplay systems, similar to how Get Together added clubs and groups in TS4. TS4 has added few new gameplay systems like that. Most of what's added is new gameplay, but not new gameplay systems. Some of you are looking for new gameplay systems. I really think I get it now. That's why Vampires and Get Together are two of the most commonly agreed upon "good" packs of TS4, even amongst its critics; they both added distinctly new gameplay systems. Which means Cats and Dogs will probably be universally well-received for those who love "character" customization (e.g. the customizing of pets' looks and such). But if its gameplay systems are too similar to, say, toddlers, it may get targeted by the same kind of ire as a lot of this game's content.

    I have either figured out something revelatory (for me anyway, I don't presume to suggest that others weren't aware) or I need to go to bed. At 4am, it's impossible to tell.
    Mods moved from MTS, now hosted at: https://triplis.github.io
  • ShadowmarkedShadowmarked Posts: 1,054 Member
    Triplis wrote: »
    I think I finally get it. Sims 2 was known for adding new gameplay systems, similar to how Get Together added clubs and groups in TS4. TS4 has added few new gameplay systems like that. Most of what's added is new gameplay, but not new gameplay systems. Some of you are looking for new gameplay systems. I really think I get it now. That's why Vampires and Get Together are two of the most commonly agreed upon "good" packs of TS4, even amongst its critics; they both added distinctly new gameplay systems. Which means Cats and Dogs will probably be universally well-received for those who love "character" customization (e.g. the customizing of pets' looks and such). But if its gameplay systems are too similar to, say, toddlers, it may get targeted by the same kind of ire as a lot of this game's content.

    I have either figured out something revelatory (for me anyway, I don't presume to suggest that others weren't aware) or I need to go to bed. At 4am, it's impossible to tell.

    Your revelation actually seems right to me and finally helped me place where my ire has been with ts4.
    I'm voting your right.
    4am you is pretty smart :)
  • JoAnne65JoAnne65 Posts: 22,959 Member
    Triplis wrote: »
    I think I finally get it. Sims 2 was known for adding new gameplay systems, similar to how Get Together added clubs and groups in TS4. TS4 has added few new gameplay systems like that. Most of what's added is new gameplay, but not new gameplay systems. Some of you are looking for new gameplay systems. I really think I get it now. That's why Vampires and Get Together are two of the most commonly agreed upon "good" packs of TS4, even amongst its critics; they both added distinctly new gameplay systems. Which means Cats and Dogs will probably be universally well-received for those who love "character" customization (e.g. the customizing of pets' looks and such). But if its gameplay systems are too similar to, say, toddlers, it may get targeted by the same kind of ire as a lot of this game's content.

    I have either figured out something revelatory (for me anyway, I don't presume to suggest that others weren't aware) or I need to go to bed. At 4am, it's impossible to tell.
    Exactly. Though for me GT was a hit and miss because it does change the gameplay system, but only in a way that you set up something and then watch it happen, without any real surprises or different outcome. I wonder if that one's commonly agreed upon as good? It didn't really add new gameplay, just canalized excisting gameplay. Toddlers are a better example (with the vampires) I think. Not only are they cute and realistic, they also have a broad variety of gameplay and characteristics attached to them.
    5JZ57S6.png
  • xitneverendssxitneverendss Posts: 1,772 Member
    Eh, I don't think the best example of that is GT. GT was pretty meh as far as adding a new gameplay system goes. It's basically just a glorified grouping system. I'd say Parenthood is much better in terms of adding something new and interesting.
  • HalloMolliHalloMolli Posts: 2,720 Member
    edited August 2017
    JoAnne65 wrote: »
    Triplis wrote: »
    I think I finally get it. Sims 2 was known for adding new gameplay systems, similar to how Get Together added clubs and groups in TS4. TS4 has added few new gameplay systems like that. Most of what's added is new gameplay, but not new gameplay systems. Some of you are looking for new gameplay systems. I really think I get it now. That's why Vampires and Get Together are two of the most commonly agreed upon "good" packs of TS4, even amongst its critics; they both added distinctly new gameplay systems. Which means Cats and Dogs will probably be universally well-received for those who love "character" customization (e.g. the customizing of pets' looks and such). But if its gameplay systems are too similar to, say, toddlers, it may get targeted by the same kind of ire as a lot of this game's content.

    I have either figured out something revelatory (for me anyway, I don't presume to suggest that others weren't aware) or I need to go to bed. At 4am, it's impossible to tell.
    Exactly. Though for me GT was a hit and miss because it does change the gameplay system, but only in a way that you set up something and then watch it happen, without any real surprises or different outcome. I wonder if that one's commonly agreed upon as good? It didn't really add new gameplay, just canalized excisting gameplay. Toddlers are a better example (with the vampires) I think. Not only are they cute and realistic, they also have a broad variety of gameplay and characteristics attached to them.

    Hm, interesting. And for me it's the opposite. As you stated correctly, toddlers - as a new life-stage - might have added new gameplay for Family Players eventually but they are far from what I would consider a (universal) "gameplay System". Indeed, they are cute and prove that traits can actually have an (significant) Impact on gameplay, however, in the end they are nothing Special when compared to Vampires (--> Vampires GP relies on a typical mechanic which is usually used in classic RPG games in order to improve/individualize your character's (passive) skills, stats and characteristics by providing a so called tech-tree for the player).

    The Beauty of Clubs is that they are extremely flexible when it Comes to utilization*, though. The fact that their functionality is mainly build around "organizing" (sandbox gameplay) is something truly unique (at least to some extent) as it gives you the possibility to break with the stagnated way of how AI Needs to work in a game like The Sims to maintain a certain Level of the games' capability to simulate day-to-day situations with npc-sims involved (such as visiting a community lot).

    As I've already explained countless times before: What Sims do on a lot, how they behave (object prioritization) is determined by the lot itself. Always when you visit, say, the museum lot you'll see the same pattern over and over again (Sims AI is coded to perform the following interactions: look at objects flagged as art, talk with other sims, get a drink etc. - you won't have any "surprises" since this is the reality of hard-coded behavior-patterns). The Club-System adds flexibility to the AI --> resulting in rather flexible gameplay situations.

    And this is just ONE example of how Clubs can be used effectively.

    Sandbox-elements have to be seen as gameplay-systems every simmer should embrace, if you ask me as those Tools do not only exist to let you tell stories but they also ensure replayability by providing an open-ended experience. Another Good example is the parenting-mechanic from parenthood, btw. It's not as universal as Clubs but it is still a gameplay-System.

    The most important part is that Clubs cater to many play-styles while other gameplay-systems are designed for a specific audience (does not matter whether you prefer to Play with families, single sims or supernaturals, almost everybody benefits from them).

    Get Together is the perfect example of a sandbox EP.

    *I thought maybe I can give you some example on this without referring to their obvious functionality:

    - Clubs add Immersion by filling up the 'dead space' on a community-lot --> usually npc sims do not use the space they are given by the Player on a lot to its fullest potential. I've always hated that bigger lots felt quite empty sometimes.
    - Clubs help with micromanaging your household significantly, especially when there a npc sims involved and you want to plan out the day efficiently --> I love that I can make a Family of 5 sims meet their friends simultanously without having to waste time in order to make sure that all of them are occupied.
    - Clubs can be used to make sure that a social Events with many sims will function properly without having to waste your sims' time to babysit the Happening. I often gather a Group of 2 People to make sure that they Keep cleaning the lot during a Party, for example (can be used for cooking, repairing etc. as well).
    - Clubs kind of have the potential to simulate Hobbies and acitivites performed by a Group of sims/a Team.

    Post edited by HalloMolli on
    "[...] and everything will be okay in the end. If it's not okay, then it's not the end."


  • JoAnne65JoAnne65 Posts: 22,959 Member
    HalloMolli wrote: »
    JoAnne65 wrote: »
    Triplis wrote: »
    I think I finally get it. Sims 2 was known for adding new gameplay systems, similar to how Get Together added clubs and groups in TS4. TS4 has added few new gameplay systems like that. Most of what's added is new gameplay, but not new gameplay systems. Some of you are looking for new gameplay systems. I really think I get it now. That's why Vampires and Get Together are two of the most commonly agreed upon "good" packs of TS4, even amongst its critics; they both added distinctly new gameplay systems. Which means Cats and Dogs will probably be universally well-received for those who love "character" customization (e.g. the customizing of pets' looks and such). But if its gameplay systems are too similar to, say, toddlers, it may get targeted by the same kind of ire as a lot of this game's content.

    I have either figured out something revelatory (for me anyway, I don't presume to suggest that others weren't aware) or I need to go to bed. At 4am, it's impossible to tell.
    Exactly. Though for me GT was a hit and miss because it does change the gameplay system, but only in a way that you set up something and then watch it happen, without any real surprises or different outcome. I wonder if that one's commonly agreed upon as good? It didn't really add new gameplay, just canalized excisting gameplay. Toddlers are a better example (with the vampires) I think. Not only are they cute and realistic, they also have a broad variety of gameplay and characteristics attached to them.

    Hm, interesting. And for me it's the opposite. As you stated correctly, toddlers - as a new life-stage - might have added new gameplay for Family Players eventually but they are far from what I would consider a universal "gameplay System". Indeed, they are cute and prove that traits can actually have an (significant) Impact on gameplay, however, in the end they are nothing Special when compared to Vampires (--> Vampires GP relies on a typical mechanic which is usually used in classic RPG games in order to improve/individualize your character's (passive) skills, stats and characteristics by providing a so called tech-tree for the player).

    The Beauty of Clubs is that they are extremely flexible when it Comes to utilization, though. The fact that their functionality is mainly build around "organizing" (sandbox gameplay) is something truly unique (at least to some extent) as it gives you the possibility to break with the stagnated way of how AI Needs to work in a game like The Sims to maintain a certain Level of the games' capability to simulate day-to-day situations with npc-sims involved (such as visiting a community lot).

    As I've already explained countless times before: What Sims do on a lot, how they behave (object prioritization) is determined by the lot itself. Always when you visit, say, the museum lot you'll see the same pattern over and over again (Sims AI is coded to perform the following interactions: look at objects flagged as art, talk with other sims, get a drink etc.). The Club-System adds flexibility to the AI --> resulting in rather flexible gameplay situations.

    Sandbox-elements have to be seen as gameplay-systems every simmer should embrace, if you ask me since those Tools do not only exist to let you tell stories but they also ensure replayability by providing an open-ended experience. A Good example is the parenting-mechanic from parenthood, btw. It's not as universal as Clubs but it is still a gameplay-System.

    The most important part is that Clubs cater to many play-styles while other "gameplay"-mechanics are designed for a specific audience.

    Get Together is the perfect example of a sandbox EP.
    It's this 'same pattern' approach what I find boring I guess, the predictability and the lack of surprise. I think the pack is very useful for simmers who already liked Sims 4. It didn't add new stuff for those who were waiting for something new though. It indeed added a different system never seen before, but failed to also add gameplay. Sandbox gameplay comes in many forms and styles, all it means is that it's endless. You can roam around and choose what you want to do (and what you don't want to do).

    Toddlers added new gameplay for simmers, not just for 'family players'. For me character building of sims is the chore of the game, regardless what life stage. I'm not a typical family player. My current Sims 3 sim is still adventuring and having a full time job, leaving the education of her young child to the other inhabitants of the apartment she lives in and marrying is not one of her ambitions. Still I would have loved her son to have been a Sims 4 toddler, in more than one respect. Also because I know that a little sister or brother would be a totally different kid (where Sims 3 toddlers are very much alike, but maybe that has something to do with my flawless education system ahem :p ).
    5JZ57S6.png
  • kremesch73kremesch73 Posts: 10,474 Member
    edited August 2017
    JoAnne65 wrote: »
    HalloMolli wrote: »
    JoAnne65 wrote: »
    Triplis wrote: »
    I think I finally get it. Sims 2 was known for adding new gameplay systems, similar to how Get Together added clubs and groups in TS4. TS4 has added few new gameplay systems like that. Most of what's added is new gameplay, but not new gameplay systems. Some of you are looking for new gameplay systems. I really think I get it now. That's why Vampires and Get Together are two of the most commonly agreed upon "good" packs of TS4, even amongst its critics; they both added distinctly new gameplay systems. Which means Cats and Dogs will probably be universally well-received for those who love "character" customization (e.g. the customizing of pets' looks and such). But if its gameplay systems are too similar to, say, toddlers, it may get targeted by the same kind of ire as a lot of this game's content.

    I have either figured out something revelatory (for me anyway, I don't presume to suggest that others weren't aware) or I need to go to bed. At 4am, it's impossible to tell.
    Exactly. Though for me GT was a hit and miss because it does change the gameplay system, but only in a way that you set up something and then watch it happen, without any real surprises or different outcome. I wonder if that one's commonly agreed upon as good? It didn't really add new gameplay, just canalized excisting gameplay. Toddlers are a better example (with the vampires) I think. Not only are they cute and realistic, they also have a broad variety of gameplay and characteristics attached to them.

    Hm, interesting. And for me it's the opposite. As you stated correctly, toddlers - as a new life-stage - might have added new gameplay for Family Players eventually but they are far from what I would consider a universal "gameplay System". Indeed, they are cute and prove that traits can actually have an (significant) Impact on gameplay, however, in the end they are nothing Special when compared to Vampires (--> Vampires GP relies on a typical mechanic which is usually used in classic RPG games in order to improve/individualize your character's (passive) skills, stats and characteristics by providing a so called tech-tree for the player).

    The Beauty of Clubs is that they are extremely flexible when it Comes to utilization, though. The fact that their functionality is mainly build around "organizing" (sandbox gameplay) is something truly unique (at least to some extent) as it gives you the possibility to break with the stagnated way of how AI Needs to work in a game like The Sims to maintain a certain Level of the games' capability to simulate day-to-day situations with npc-sims involved (such as visiting a community lot).

    As I've already explained countless times before: What Sims do on a lot, how they behave (object prioritization) is determined by the lot itself. Always when you visit, say, the museum lot you'll see the same pattern over and over again (Sims AI is coded to perform the following interactions: look at objects flagged as art, talk with other sims, get a drink etc.). The Club-System adds flexibility to the AI --> resulting in rather flexible gameplay situations.

    Sandbox-elements have to be seen as gameplay-systems every simmer should embrace, if you ask me since those Tools do not only exist to let you tell stories but they also ensure replayability by providing an open-ended experience. A Good example is the parenting-mechanic from parenthood, btw. It's not as universal as Clubs but it is still a gameplay-System.

    The most important part is that Clubs cater to many play-styles while other "gameplay"-mechanics are designed for a specific audience.

    Get Together is the perfect example of a sandbox EP.
    It's this 'same pattern' approach what I find boring I guess, the predictability and the lack of surprise. I think the pack is very useful for simmers who already liked Sims 4. It didn't add new stuff for those who were waiting for something new though. It indeed added a different system never seen before, but failed to also add gameplay. Sandbox gameplay comes in many forms and styles, all it means is that it's endless. You can roam around and choose what you want to do (and what you don't want to do).

    Toddlers added new gameplay for simmers, not just for 'family players'. For me character building of sims is the chore of the game, regardless what life stage. I'm not a typical family player. My current Sims 3 sim is still adventuring and having a full time job, leaving the education of her young child to the other inhabitants of the apartment she lives in and marrying is not one of her ambitions. Still I would have loved her son to have been a Sims 4 toddler, in more than one respect. Also because I know that a little sister or brother would be a totally different kid (where Sims 3 toddlers are very much alike, but maybe that has something to do with my flawless education system ahem :p ).

    Would an S4 toddler have helped shaped its future though? I'm not praising S3 on this matter. There's a lot to be desired. I'm just wondering if toddlers actually help to shape a sim. I'm mainly asking because I feel the child stage doesn't. Yeah. You get a perk, but not much else.

    It's one of my many peeves with 4. The child stage feels so isolated to the point where I feel they're useless to play with. Are the toddlers really that much better? Or do they just offer a different stage of gameplay during that stage?
    Dissatisfied with Sims 4 and hoping for a better Sims 5
  • HalloMolliHalloMolli Posts: 2,720 Member
    edited August 2017
    JoAnne65 wrote: »
    HalloMolli wrote: »
    JoAnne65 wrote: »
    Triplis wrote: »
    I think I finally get it. Sims 2 was known for adding new gameplay systems, similar to how Get Together added clubs and groups in TS4. TS4 has added few new gameplay systems like that. Most of what's added is new gameplay, but not new gameplay systems. Some of you are looking for new gameplay systems. I really think I get it now. That's why Vampires and Get Together are two of the most commonly agreed upon "good" packs of TS4, even amongst its critics; they both added distinctly new gameplay systems. Which means Cats and Dogs will probably be universally well-received for those who love "character" customization (e.g. the customizing of pets' looks and such). But if its gameplay systems are too similar to, say, toddlers, it may get targeted by the same kind of ire as a lot of this game's content.

    I have either figured out something revelatory (for me anyway, I don't presume to suggest that others weren't aware) or I need to go to bed. At 4am, it's impossible to tell.
    Exactly. Though for me GT was a hit and miss because it does change the gameplay system, but only in a way that you set up something and then watch it happen, without any real surprises or different outcome. I wonder if that one's commonly agreed upon as good? It didn't really add new gameplay, just canalized excisting gameplay. Toddlers are a better example (with the vampires) I think. Not only are they cute and realistic, they also have a broad variety of gameplay and characteristics attached to them.

    Hm, interesting. And for me it's the opposite. As you stated correctly, toddlers - as a new life-stage - might have added new gameplay for Family Players eventually but they are far from what I would consider a universal "gameplay System". Indeed, they are cute and prove that traits can actually have an (significant) Impact on gameplay, however, in the end they are nothing Special when compared to Vampires (--> Vampires GP relies on a typical mechanic which is usually used in classic RPG games in order to improve/individualize your character's (passive) skills, stats and characteristics by providing a so called tech-tree for the player).

    The Beauty of Clubs is that they are extremely flexible when it Comes to utilization, though. The fact that their functionality is mainly build around "organizing" (sandbox gameplay) is something truly unique (at least to some extent) as it gives you the possibility to break with the stagnated way of how AI Needs to work in a game like The Sims to maintain a certain Level of the games' capability to simulate day-to-day situations with npc-sims involved (such as visiting a community lot).

    As I've already explained countless times before: What Sims do on a lot, how they behave (object prioritization) is determined by the lot itself. Always when you visit, say, the museum lot you'll see the same pattern over and over again (Sims AI is coded to perform the following interactions: look at objects flagged as art, talk with other sims, get a drink etc.). The Club-System adds flexibility to the AI --> resulting in rather flexible gameplay situations.

    Sandbox-elements have to be seen as gameplay-systems every simmer should embrace, if you ask me since those Tools do not only exist to let you tell stories but they also ensure replayability by providing an open-ended experience. A Good example is the parenting-mechanic from parenthood, btw. It's not as universal as Clubs but it is still a gameplay-System.

    The most important part is that Clubs cater to many play-styles while other "gameplay"-mechanics are designed for a specific audience.

    Get Together is the perfect example of a sandbox EP.
    It's this 'same pattern' approach what I find boring I guess, the predictability and the lack of surprise. I think the pack is very useful for simmers who already liked Sims 4. It didn't add new stuff for those who were waiting for something new though. It indeed added a different system never seen before, but failed to also add gameplay. Sandbox gameplay comes in many forms and styles, all it means is that it's endless. You can roam around and choose what you want to do (and what you don't want to do).

    Toddlers added new gameplay for simmers, not just for 'family players'. For me character building of sims is the chore of the game, regardless what life stage. I'm not a typical family player. My current Sims 3 sim is still adventuring and having a full time job, leaving the education of her young child to the other inhabitants of the apartment she lives in and marrying is not one of her ambitions. Still I would have loved her son to have been a Sims 4 toddler, in more than one respect. Also because I know that a little sister or brother would be a totally different kid (where Sims 3 toddlers are very much alike, but maybe that has something to do with my flawless education system ahem :p ).

    Well, if you Play with children (Family context), you are playing the Family playstyle, regardless of how you Label yourself outside of said situation. If the Sims 4 offered meaningful gameplay for YA+ only Players I wouldn't even touch toddlers. I am the opposite of a Family Player who just happens to Play with families most of the time now. Raising a toddler is de facto "Family Play", doesn't matter if you Play a sim who is doing side-activities such as going on adventures etc. . Example: In TS3 I liked to Play with siblings quite often, they are by definition a Family, however, I didn't prefer to Play the "Family playstyle" with them as I treated them rather as roommates (--> no raising Kids involved).

    Anyway: The gameplay of Clubs is organizing and planing out your game, so IMO it didn't fail at all at delivering something new/unique, I think. The General gameplay experience is enhanced as I showed in my examples above (edited it). But it's true that the System heavily relies on already established gameplay.

    Edit: To make Things clear: Family Players = Those who like/enjoy Family Play. It does not mean that you do nothing but Family Play all the time.

    Post edited by HalloMolli on
    "[...] and everything will be okay in the end. If it's not okay, then it's not the end."


  • JoAnne65JoAnne65 Posts: 22,959 Member
    edited August 2017
    kremesch73 wrote: »
    JoAnne65 wrote: »
    HalloMolli wrote: »
    JoAnne65 wrote: »
    Triplis wrote: »
    I think I finally get it. Sims 2 was known for adding new gameplay systems, similar to how Get Together added clubs and groups in TS4. TS4 has added few new gameplay systems like that. Most of what's added is new gameplay, but not new gameplay systems. Some of you are looking for new gameplay systems. I really think I get it now. That's why Vampires and Get Together are two of the most commonly agreed upon "good" packs of TS4, even amongst its critics; they both added distinctly new gameplay systems. Which means Cats and Dogs will probably be universally well-received for those who love "character" customization (e.g. the customizing of pets' looks and such). But if its gameplay systems are too similar to, say, toddlers, it may get targeted by the same kind of ire as a lot of this game's content.

    I have either figured out something revelatory (for me anyway, I don't presume to suggest that others weren't aware) or I need to go to bed. At 4am, it's impossible to tell.
    Exactly. Though for me GT was a hit and miss because it does change the gameplay system, but only in a way that you set up something and then watch it happen, without any real surprises or different outcome. I wonder if that one's commonly agreed upon as good? It didn't really add new gameplay, just canalized excisting gameplay. Toddlers are a better example (with the vampires) I think. Not only are they cute and realistic, they also have a broad variety of gameplay and characteristics attached to them.

    Hm, interesting. And for me it's the opposite. As you stated correctly, toddlers - as a new life-stage - might have added new gameplay for Family Players eventually but they are far from what I would consider a universal "gameplay System". Indeed, they are cute and prove that traits can actually have an (significant) Impact on gameplay, however, in the end they are nothing Special when compared to Vampires (--> Vampires GP relies on a typical mechanic which is usually used in classic RPG games in order to improve/individualize your character's (passive) skills, stats and characteristics by providing a so called tech-tree for the player).

    The Beauty of Clubs is that they are extremely flexible when it Comes to utilization, though. The fact that their functionality is mainly build around "organizing" (sandbox gameplay) is something truly unique (at least to some extent) as it gives you the possibility to break with the stagnated way of how AI Needs to work in a game like The Sims to maintain a certain Level of the games' capability to simulate day-to-day situations with npc-sims involved (such as visiting a community lot).

    As I've already explained countless times before: What Sims do on a lot, how they behave (object prioritization) is determined by the lot itself. Always when you visit, say, the museum lot you'll see the same pattern over and over again (Sims AI is coded to perform the following interactions: look at objects flagged as art, talk with other sims, get a drink etc.). The Club-System adds flexibility to the AI --> resulting in rather flexible gameplay situations.

    Sandbox-elements have to be seen as gameplay-systems every simmer should embrace, if you ask me since those Tools do not only exist to let you tell stories but they also ensure replayability by providing an open-ended experience. A Good example is the parenting-mechanic from parenthood, btw. It's not as universal as Clubs but it is still a gameplay-System.

    The most important part is that Clubs cater to many play-styles while other "gameplay"-mechanics are designed for a specific audience.

    Get Together is the perfect example of a sandbox EP.
    It's this 'same pattern' approach what I find boring I guess, the predictability and the lack of surprise. I think the pack is very useful for simmers who already liked Sims 4. It didn't add new stuff for those who were waiting for something new though. It indeed added a different system never seen before, but failed to also add gameplay. Sandbox gameplay comes in many forms and styles, all it means is that it's endless. You can roam around and choose what you want to do (and what you don't want to do).

    Toddlers added new gameplay for simmers, not just for 'family players'. For me character building of sims is the chore of the game, regardless what life stage. I'm not a typical family player. My current Sims 3 sim is still adventuring and having a full time job, leaving the education of her young child to the other inhabitants of the apartment she lives in and marrying is not one of her ambitions. Still I would have loved her son to have been a Sims 4 toddler, in more than one respect. Also because I know that a little sister or brother would be a totally different kid (where Sims 3 toddlers are very much alike, but maybe that has something to do with my flawless education system ahem :p ).

    Would an S4 toddler have helped shaped its future though? I'm not praising S3 on this matter. There's a lot to be desired. I'm just wondering if toddlers actually help to shape a sim. I'm mainly asking because I feel the child stage doesn't. Yeah. You get a perk, but not much else.

    It's one of my many peeves with 4. The child stage feels so isolated to the point where I feel they're useless to play with. Are the toddlers really that much better? Or do they just offer a different stage of gameplay during that stage?
    Well, there you touch the real problem for me, I don't care in Sims 4 because I don't want them to grow up ;) I don't like to play the adults and the genetics (one of my major drives to play generational) aren't my cup of tea either. Where in Sims 3 I can't wait for them to become YA. I do like I can hand my little ones in Sims 3 their books and toys to become a fairly skilled YA when they grow up. I don't really know if the same goes for the toddlers in Sims 4, I play with aging off.
    5JZ57S6.png
  • JoAnne65JoAnne65 Posts: 22,959 Member
    HalloMolli wrote: »
    JoAnne65 wrote: »
    HalloMolli wrote: »
    JoAnne65 wrote: »
    Triplis wrote: »
    I think I finally get it. Sims 2 was known for adding new gameplay systems, similar to how Get Together added clubs and groups in TS4. TS4 has added few new gameplay systems like that. Most of what's added is new gameplay, but not new gameplay systems. Some of you are looking for new gameplay systems. I really think I get it now. That's why Vampires and Get Together are two of the most commonly agreed upon "good" packs of TS4, even amongst its critics; they both added distinctly new gameplay systems. Which means Cats and Dogs will probably be universally well-received for those who love "character" customization (e.g. the customizing of pets' looks and such). But if its gameplay systems are too similar to, say, toddlers, it may get targeted by the same kind of ire as a lot of this game's content.

    I have either figured out something revelatory (for me anyway, I don't presume to suggest that others weren't aware) or I need to go to bed. At 4am, it's impossible to tell.
    Exactly. Though for me GT was a hit and miss because it does change the gameplay system, but only in a way that you set up something and then watch it happen, without any real surprises or different outcome. I wonder if that one's commonly agreed upon as good? It didn't really add new gameplay, just canalized excisting gameplay. Toddlers are a better example (with the vampires) I think. Not only are they cute and realistic, they also have a broad variety of gameplay and characteristics attached to them.

    Hm, interesting. And for me it's the opposite. As you stated correctly, toddlers - as a new life-stage - might have added new gameplay for Family Players eventually but they are far from what I would consider a universal "gameplay System". Indeed, they are cute and prove that traits can actually have an (significant) Impact on gameplay, however, in the end they are nothing Special when compared to Vampires (--> Vampires GP relies on a typical mechanic which is usually used in classic RPG games in order to improve/individualize your character's (passive) skills, stats and characteristics by providing a so called tech-tree for the player).

    The Beauty of Clubs is that they are extremely flexible when it Comes to utilization, though. The fact that their functionality is mainly build around "organizing" (sandbox gameplay) is something truly unique (at least to some extent) as it gives you the possibility to break with the stagnated way of how AI Needs to work in a game like The Sims to maintain a certain Level of the games' capability to simulate day-to-day situations with npc-sims involved (such as visiting a community lot).

    As I've already explained countless times before: What Sims do on a lot, how they behave (object prioritization) is determined by the lot itself. Always when you visit, say, the museum lot you'll see the same pattern over and over again (Sims AI is coded to perform the following interactions: look at objects flagged as art, talk with other sims, get a drink etc.). The Club-System adds flexibility to the AI --> resulting in rather flexible gameplay situations.

    Sandbox-elements have to be seen as gameplay-systems every simmer should embrace, if you ask me since those Tools do not only exist to let you tell stories but they also ensure replayability by providing an open-ended experience. A Good example is the parenting-mechanic from parenthood, btw. It's not as universal as Clubs but it is still a gameplay-System.

    The most important part is that Clubs cater to many play-styles while other "gameplay"-mechanics are designed for a specific audience.

    Get Together is the perfect example of a sandbox EP.
    It's this 'same pattern' approach what I find boring I guess, the predictability and the lack of surprise. I think the pack is very useful for simmers who already liked Sims 4. It didn't add new stuff for those who were waiting for something new though. It indeed added a different system never seen before, but failed to also add gameplay. Sandbox gameplay comes in many forms and styles, all it means is that it's endless. You can roam around and choose what you want to do (and what you don't want to do).

    Toddlers added new gameplay for simmers, not just for 'family players'. For me character building of sims is the chore of the game, regardless what life stage. I'm not a typical family player. My current Sims 3 sim is still adventuring and having a full time job, leaving the education of her young child to the other inhabitants of the apartment she lives in and marrying is not one of her ambitions. Still I would have loved her son to have been a Sims 4 toddler, in more than one respect. Also because I know that a little sister or brother would be a totally different kid (where Sims 3 toddlers are very much alike, but maybe that has something to do with my flawless education system ahem :p ).

    Well, if you Play with children (Family context), you are playing the Family playstyle, regardless of how you Label yourself outside of said situation. If the Sims 4 offered meaningful gameplay for YA+ only Players I wouldn't even touch toddlers. I am the opposite of a Family Player who just happens to Play with families most of the time now. Raising a toddler is de facto "Family Play", doesn't matter if you Play a sim who is doing side-activities such as going on adventures etc. . Example: In TS3 I liked to Play with siblings quite often, they are by definition a Family, however, I didn't prefer to Play the "Family playstyle" with them as I treated them rather as roommates (--> no raising Kids involved).

    Anyway: The gameplay of Clubs is organizing and planing out your game, so IMO it didn't fail at all at delivering something new/unique, I think. The General gameplay experience is enhanced as I showed in my examples above (edited it). But it's true that the System heavily relies on already established gameplay.

    Edit: To make Things clear: Family Players = Those who like/enjoy Family Play. It does not mean that you do nothing but Family Play all the time.
    I consider a 'family player' someone who loves doing that the most in the game, not a player who happens to play a family every now and then ;) Like a builder mainly is in it to build houses tirelessly, not like me spending a day to be completely absorbed building and then play in that house for months (real months). I even played two entire generations in Sims 3 without having a family (the kids and moms were in other households) and those were two of my best Sims experiences. I think one could describe me as an allround player rather. Of course toddlers mostly suit family play, but that doesn't mean they are only nice for 'family players'. They are uninteresting for people not liking to play families, that much is true. Like people who don't like to play supernaturals couldn't care less about the vampires.

    I'm going to give your clubs edit the attention it deserves later (because I'd love to see the charm myself too, after all I do have GT) but I must face the rain now and go to work.
    5JZ57S6.png
  • HalloMolliHalloMolli Posts: 2,720 Member
    JoAnne65 wrote: »
    HalloMolli wrote: »
    JoAnne65 wrote: »
    HalloMolli wrote: »
    JoAnne65 wrote: »
    Triplis wrote: »
    I think I finally get it. Sims 2 was known for adding new gameplay systems, similar to how Get Together added clubs and groups in TS4. TS4 has added few new gameplay systems like that. Most of what's added is new gameplay, but not new gameplay systems. Some of you are looking for new gameplay systems. I really think I get it now. That's why Vampires and Get Together are two of the most commonly agreed upon "good" packs of TS4, even amongst its critics; they both added distinctly new gameplay systems. Which means Cats and Dogs will probably be universally well-received for those who love "character" customization (e.g. the customizing of pets' looks and such). But if its gameplay systems are too similar to, say, toddlers, it may get targeted by the same kind of ire as a lot of this game's content.

    I have either figured out something revelatory (for me anyway, I don't presume to suggest that others weren't aware) or I need to go to bed. At 4am, it's impossible to tell.
    Exactly. Though for me GT was a hit and miss because it does change the gameplay system, but only in a way that you set up something and then watch it happen, without any real surprises or different outcome. I wonder if that one's commonly agreed upon as good? It didn't really add new gameplay, just canalized excisting gameplay. Toddlers are a better example (with the vampires) I think. Not only are they cute and realistic, they also have a broad variety of gameplay and characteristics attached to them.

    Hm, interesting. And for me it's the opposite. As you stated correctly, toddlers - as a new life-stage - might have added new gameplay for Family Players eventually but they are far from what I would consider a universal "gameplay System". Indeed, they are cute and prove that traits can actually have an (significant) Impact on gameplay, however, in the end they are nothing Special when compared to Vampires (--> Vampires GP relies on a typical mechanic which is usually used in classic RPG games in order to improve/individualize your character's (passive) skills, stats and characteristics by providing a so called tech-tree for the player).

    The Beauty of Clubs is that they are extremely flexible when it Comes to utilization, though. The fact that their functionality is mainly build around "organizing" (sandbox gameplay) is something truly unique (at least to some extent) as it gives you the possibility to break with the stagnated way of how AI Needs to work in a game like The Sims to maintain a certain Level of the games' capability to simulate day-to-day situations with npc-sims involved (such as visiting a community lot).

    As I've already explained countless times before: What Sims do on a lot, how they behave (object prioritization) is determined by the lot itself. Always when you visit, say, the museum lot you'll see the same pattern over and over again (Sims AI is coded to perform the following interactions: look at objects flagged as art, talk with other sims, get a drink etc.). The Club-System adds flexibility to the AI --> resulting in rather flexible gameplay situations.

    Sandbox-elements have to be seen as gameplay-systems every simmer should embrace, if you ask me since those Tools do not only exist to let you tell stories but they also ensure replayability by providing an open-ended experience. A Good example is the parenting-mechanic from parenthood, btw. It's not as universal as Clubs but it is still a gameplay-System.

    The most important part is that Clubs cater to many play-styles while other "gameplay"-mechanics are designed for a specific audience.

    Get Together is the perfect example of a sandbox EP.
    It's this 'same pattern' approach what I find boring I guess, the predictability and the lack of surprise. I think the pack is very useful for simmers who already liked Sims 4. It didn't add new stuff for those who were waiting for something new though. It indeed added a different system never seen before, but failed to also add gameplay. Sandbox gameplay comes in many forms and styles, all it means is that it's endless. You can roam around and choose what you want to do (and what you don't want to do).

    Toddlers added new gameplay for simmers, not just for 'family players'. For me character building of sims is the chore of the game, regardless what life stage. I'm not a typical family player. My current Sims 3 sim is still adventuring and having a full time job, leaving the education of her young child to the other inhabitants of the apartment she lives in and marrying is not one of her ambitions. Still I would have loved her son to have been a Sims 4 toddler, in more than one respect. Also because I know that a little sister or brother would be a totally different kid (where Sims 3 toddlers are very much alike, but maybe that has something to do with my flawless education system ahem :p ).

    Well, if you Play with children (Family context), you are playing the Family playstyle, regardless of how you Label yourself outside of said situation. If the Sims 4 offered meaningful gameplay for YA+ only Players I wouldn't even touch toddlers. I am the opposite of a Family Player who just happens to Play with families most of the time now. Raising a toddler is de facto "Family Play", doesn't matter if you Play a sim who is doing side-activities such as going on adventures etc. . Example: In TS3 I liked to Play with siblings quite often, they are by definition a Family, however, I didn't prefer to Play the "Family playstyle" with them as I treated them rather as roommates (--> no raising Kids involved).

    Anyway: The gameplay of Clubs is organizing and planing out your game, so IMO it didn't fail at all at delivering something new/unique, I think. The General gameplay experience is enhanced as I showed in my examples above (edited it). But it's true that the System heavily relies on already established gameplay.

    Edit: To make Things clear: Family Players = Those who like/enjoy Family Play. It does not mean that you do nothing but Family Play all the time.
    I consider a 'family player' someone who loves doing that the most in the game, not a player who happens to play a family every now and then ;) Like a builder mainly is in it to build houses tirelessly, not like me spending a day to be completely absorbed building and then play in that house for months (real months). I even played two entire generations in Sims 3 without having a family (the kids and moms were in other households) and those were two of my best Sims experiences. I think one could describe me as an allround player rather. Of course toddlers mostly suit family play, but that doesn't mean they are only nice for 'family players'. They are uninteresting for people not liking to play families, that much is true. Like people who don't like to play supernaturals couldn't care less about the vampires.

    Fair Points, I guess. However, I would not consider toddlers a universal or at least 'neutral' Feature at all (like you said yourself: Building Kind of is, anything actually which is not meant to be played or used within a specific context). That was my only Point I was trying to make. But yeah, there are probably many simmers out there who are not Family Players in the "traditional meaning" but enjoy to enrich their gameplay with some Family Play here and there.

    "[...] and everything will be okay in the end. If it's not okay, then it's not the end."


  • ChiefBear39ChiefBear39 Posts: 56 Member
    [quote="Bear31;c-15992193"]Personally I think it all subjective (objective? Its morning and I only have had one cup of coffee.....lol). In my eyes I love all the stuff, game, and expansion packs as they stand. I play it all. I think that its good quality and if quantity suffers? So be it. They are really taking their time with Sims 4 and I am loving it. Thing you have to realize is that.....#1, no game is perfect and will have every little thing the player's heart desires and #2, not everything that we come up with or that we may think is a given.....example, getting cars for Get Together.......is doable given the system they built Sims 4 on. So in retrospect, I feel as though with the resources that they have they are doing a great job! [/quote]

    I share the same views!!
  • LukeLuke Posts: 642 Member
    I feel like they shot themselves in the foot by creating "emotions". Don't get me wrong, I think it's really great that they decided to move in that sort of direction, but they had to create *so* many extra animations for EACH emotion, that I feel like adding in a truly new object is a hassle. Some objects are probably able to have a reused animation set, so they can just focus on creating a re-skin of the object itself rather than the object AND new animations for it.

    I think that is part of the reason why TS4 seems like a failed effort ... obviously lots of effort went into the game - and is still continuously poured in as well - but is it always spent on the "correct" aspects of the game? Like Vampires, for instance, is an example of a quality pack, in my opinion. It felt like Vampires had more extensive "systems" rather than "stuff", which made it feel a lot more fleshed out. I think Parenthood is a strong pack as well, and it's the most used pack in general that I have in the game. DO is another really great pack which I loved. And even though I didn't like the idea of a pets pack, since it's not really appealing to me, I think that the way they did Cats & Dogs will have the same quality (hopefully) that they have been pouring into the GP's, but on a larger scale.

    I have been wanting them to create a shining EP for the game for so long ... we have started to get really great GP's, but EP's are supposed to have much more 'breadth' and effect our games on a much larger scale, but ALL of the EP's have been kinda lame, including GT as great as the club system is ... to be honest, I don't really use the club system anymore, so I am still left wondering what the heck the pack is actually able to offer.

    Now will the quality of future packs help TS4? I really don't know. I know that Bon Voyage, Seasons, and University for TS2 kept me playing the game for a loooooong time, well into the era of TS3, and even slightly after TS4. But when I come out of my TS2 hole, it starts to feel outdated. Don't get me wrong; I love TS2 and I think that it's the greatest iteration of The Sims that the franchise has seen, but whenever I finish a 4 hr binge of TS2, I find that I start missing aspects of TS4 and TS3, like the building tools and CaSt.

    That being said, TS4 isn't "enough" for me. All the packs are amazing and great, but I still don't find myself enamored by the game as I am with TS2. TS4 just falls flat for some reason. I can see the quality being there in the recent packs compared to TS4 standards, but in terms of TS2 standards, TS4 cuts too many corners IMO.

    I haven't purchased any of the new packs after Parenthood. I don't know if quality packs will really be enough to keep people interested, but I am waiting for some quality EP's before I make my decision fully ... but it's been an incredibly slow process. Less SP's, more EP's in my opinion. TS3 was an insane money grab, but they at least had polished content. TS4 doesn't have that same reputation to be pulling some of the stunts that they are pulling, but alas, that is the curse of EA.
    Origin ID: Derpiez
  • SoullessDollsSoullessDolls Posts: 105 Member
    I actually never post opinion things like this unless there's a wall of complaint before it. To get to the point - I think that it would be prudent for people to SAVE or be WISE with their money when it comes to Sims 4. I looked up the numbers for a post:

    I have spent approximately 700 USD acquiring all the Sims 3 expansion packs and worlds (think Sunlit Tides, etc.) I like to build as much as I like to play, so I'm not counting the extra individual items I bought from the gallery out of sheer greed.

    I JUST bought the Sims 4 a month ago. I wasn't willing to invest in a product that hadn't seen at least 20 updates and a bunch of mods. For real. Therefore, I waited until a) Simmers confirmed large and wide that this game wouldn't eat my computer. b) Origin ran a sale. I still spent approximately 400 on the Sims and all the expansions packs. (I did that all at one time. I know. I'm kind of insane.)

    That means that we're being charged almost triple the amount of money for about 25% of content volume.

    Also, don't forget that Origin now has that nebulous gallery where they can essentially "steal" other people designs and re-purpose them without leaving a single footprint (which means someone lost their job.) Also, they can SLACK with the world building. They EXPECT you to do their job for them, which has really been evident to me because I'm actually remodeling each neighborhood BEFORE I'll even playing he game.

    Part of what I feel has totally dipped for quality is the world building, the story. Sims 4 isn't as interesting and will never be as interesting as the games that came before because Sims 2 gave you a story and Sims 3 gave you surprises. Sims 4 gives you neither.

    Also, I understand that smaller projects are easier to manage. I understand quality versus quantity. However, that's not a realistic limitation for a company that operates very much like Amazon, Facebook, or any platform based monopoly.

    You must understand that EA is the type of company that needed to be told by Supreme Court to pay their artists properly, to give them time and space to have a life outside of work. Why? Because EA doesn't want to hire more people. More people means more expenses, more taxes.

    Why on earth would they hire more slaves when these are doing just fine? I mean, we bought the games, didn't we?

    Any company like EA pays someone whose ONLY job is to come in and make the company "efficient" which means divorcing the idea of quality from value. EA doesn't understand how to price it's own games. It knows how to make money.

    On that note, I do not think that all these gamepacks and expansion packs are worth the money. BEFORE you invest in a gamepack, I urge you to check out Patreon for awesome Sim modders who design beautiful content as their full-time job. (For real. They exist.) If you're not super tech savvy, I suggest only buying the expansion or gamepacks that you've seen played by Let'sPlays.

    For instance, unless you're trying to tell a story - Get Together and Parenthood are unnecessary.

    (*That toddler pack was totally unnecessary too. You can create a club that functions very much like a play date with children. If you want to invite a toddler over, you can actually turn on testingcheats and "summon" the sim and they'll show up to play and go home on their own. You can do this as many times as you want. I had a gang of toddlers at my house LONG before the toddler expansion pack. I bought that pack because I'm a glutton and I needed to have those frilly string lights for my bayou houses. I could've found a mod, but I paid 10 bucks not to have to deal with Google. Win.)

    If you're trying to roleplay as your Sim (become the Sim, so to speak) Get to Work and Dine Out are worth it.

    If you're trying to be a builder, my dude -- accept your fate, do the work and find CC, or pay 10 bucks not to deal with Google. It's all poison, sweetheart. You know what's up, you HGTV fanatic. You came to the bar, so you might as well drink.

    As for me, there's this house I need to build. #storyofmylife
    Woody: You, Are, A, Toyyyyy! You're not the real thing. You're an action figure. You are a child's play thing!
    Buzz Lightyear: You are a sad, strange little man. Farewell.
  • Jaline33Jaline33 Posts: 1,167 Member
    I've also seen an interesting review on Sims 2 Nighlife saying:
    "A solid expansion, although I really wouldn't call it a must-have because it's a little light on content for its price tag." Considering it's content is the equivalent of The Sims 4 Get Together, Bowling Night, Vampires AND Dine Out made me think if I'm spending my money wisely, what do you guys think about this?

    Well, if this is the case then yes, you are indeed wasting your money :D
    I can't say I fully agree (especially not that ts2 vampires = ts4 vampires) but that's irrelevant because it isn't my money being spent on what I deem to be the exact same thing.

    In some respects, TS2 were > TS4 vampires. Again: choices. Options. Those two qualities are virtually non-existent in TS4 - we are forced to play how the game wants us to play. In TS2 and TS3, we had options - we could avoid vampires altogether if we wanted to and/or eliminate them from our games. In TS4, all we can do is uninstall the GP which means we also don't get the Build/Buy/CAS stuff.

    This is one of the biggest flaws in TS4 regarding quality.
  • TS1299TS1299 Posts: 1,604 Member
    Jaline33 wrote: »
    I've also seen an interesting review on Sims 2 Nighlife saying:
    "A solid expansion, although I really wouldn't call it a must-have because it's a little light on content for its price tag." Considering it's content is the equivalent of The Sims 4 Get Together, Bowling Night, Vampires AND Dine Out made me think if I'm spending my money wisely, what do you guys think about this?

    Well, if this is the case then yes, you are indeed wasting your money :D
    I can't say I fully agree (especially not that ts2 vampires = ts4 vampires) but that's irrelevant because it isn't my money being spent on what I deem to be the exact same thing.

    In some respects, TS2 were > TS4 vampires. Again: choices. Options. Those two qualities are virtually non-existent in TS4 - we are forced to play how the game wants us to play. In TS2 and TS3, we had options - we could avoid vampires altogether if we wanted to and/or eliminate them from our games. In TS4, all we can do is uninstall the GP which means we also don't get the Build/Buy/CAS stuff.

    This is one of the biggest flaws in TS4 regarding quality.

    And it was the same with the previous games. I always wonder why do people always think that the developers or The Sims 4 itself always forces us the way we wanted to play, as if the other games in the series didn't so.
    Other games also "forced you to play how the game wants us to play"
    Don't want to follow your sims aspiration in The Sims 2? Your sim is now experiencing an aspiration failure, and it is bad if you wanted to have a story that you are planning. You wanted your baby in Sims 3 to age up to young adult already so you can continue the story you are planning? Oh look your sim has now earned bad traits as punishment in doing that. Why I am forced to train my toddler, and have high grades for my child? Its curfew time, and my child sim is watching a movie in the cinema with his father. I send the child to the park for a moment to use the bathroom, and now here comes the police and the father just punished my child sim without giving me warnings. Why I am forced with that feature? Like vampires, since there is no option to let you notify or even ask you to do punishments or not, the only way to remove it is by uninstalling that 40$ expansion pack. Tell me where is the option to turn off aspiration failure, punishments with aging, and even with curfews with Sims 2 and Sims 3?
  • Jaline33Jaline33 Posts: 1,167 Member
    TS1299 wrote: »
    Jaline33 wrote: »
    I've also seen an interesting review on Sims 2 Nighlife saying:
    "A solid expansion, although I really wouldn't call it a must-have because it's a little light on content for its price tag." Considering it's content is the equivalent of The Sims 4 Get Together, Bowling Night, Vampires AND Dine Out made me think if I'm spending my money wisely, what do you guys think about this?

    Well, if this is the case then yes, you are indeed wasting your money :D
    I can't say I fully agree (especially not that ts2 vampires = ts4 vampires) but that's irrelevant because it isn't my money being spent on what I deem to be the exact same thing.

    In some respects, TS2 were > TS4 vampires. Again: choices. Options. Those two qualities are virtually non-existent in TS4 - we are forced to play how the game wants us to play. In TS2 and TS3, we had options - we could avoid vampires altogether if we wanted to and/or eliminate them from our games. In TS4, all we can do is uninstall the GP which means we also don't get the Build/Buy/CAS stuff.

    This is one of the biggest flaws in TS4 regarding quality.

    And it was the same with the previous games. I always wonder why do people always think that the developers or The Sims 4 itself always forces us the way we wanted to play, as if the other games in the series didn't so.
    Other games also "forced you to play how the game wants us to play"
    Don't want to follow your sims aspiration in The Sims 2? Your sim is now experiencing an aspiration failure, and it is bad if you wanted to have a story that you are planning. You wanted your baby in Sims 3 to age up to young adult already so you can continue the story you are planning? Oh look your sim has now earned bad traits as punishment in doing that. Why I am forced to train my toddler, and have high grades for my child? Its curfew time, and my child sim is watching a movie in the cinema with his father. I send the child to the park for a moment to use the bathroom, and now here comes the police and the father just punished my child sim without giving me warnings. Why I am forced with that feature? Like vampires, since there is no option to let you notify or even ask you to do punishments or not, the only way to remove it is by uninstalling that 40$ expansion pack. Tell me where is the option to turn off aspiration failure, punishments with aging, and even with curfews with Sims 2 and Sims 3?

    In case you missed it, I wrote specifically regarding vampires. You really don't want to get me started on limitations with live mode and build mode in TS4 - and your thread on improvements covers many of them already. Very simply stated, so there are no misconceptions: TS4 is long on limitations and short on options. That is a flaw and affects its quality, IMHO.

  • StormsviewStormsview Posts: 2,603 Member
    I am thinking about checking out some old sims 2 game and game packs, I just think it may kill my computer. computers do not like older programs much. unless they have adapted to having them for some time already.

    This is how I think on the matter of how much each is liked by players when TS 1 was born, wow it was new to everyone, then new things added for TS2 players was on a roll, then wow in TS3 we just got spoiled they gave us everything.
    TS4 It's a wonderful game, and it's fun and addicting. We loved TS 4 so much we can never stop talking about what we want next. we look forward to each new pack. we make list after list of what we want next. each new pack is like a Christmas gift. Yup TS4 is so addicting. :)<3
    we'll give you a full refund. Just make sure you make your request within 24 hours after you first launch the game, within seven days from your date of purchase, or within seven days from the game's release date if you pre-ordered, whichever comes first.
    Who said EA doesn't have a sense of humor
  • MidnightAuraMidnightAura Posts: 5,809 Member
    TS1299 wrote: »
    Jaline33 wrote: »
    I've also seen an interesting review on Sims 2 Nighlife saying:
    "A solid expansion, although I really wouldn't call it a must-have because it's a little light on content for its price tag." Considering it's content is the equivalent of The Sims 4 Get Together, Bowling Night, Vampires AND Dine Out made me think if I'm spending my money wisely, what do you guys think about this?

    Well, if this is the case then yes, you are indeed wasting your money :D
    I can't say I fully agree (especially not that ts2 vampires = ts4 vampires) but that's irrelevant because it isn't my money being spent on what I deem to be the exact same thing.

    In some respects, TS2 were > TS4 vampires. Again: choices. Options. Those two qualities are virtually non-existent in TS4 - we are forced to play how the game wants us to play. In TS2 and TS3, we had options - we could avoid vampires altogether if we wanted to and/or eliminate them from our games. In TS4, all we can do is uninstall the GP which means we also don't get the Build/Buy/CAS stuff.

    This is one of the biggest flaws in TS4 regarding quality.

    And it was the same with the previous games. I always wonder why do people always think that the developers or The Sims 4 itself always forces us the way we wanted to play, as if the other games in the series didn't so.
    Other games also "forced you to play how the game wants us to play"
    Don't want to follow your sims aspiration in The Sims 2? Your sim is now experiencing an aspiration failure, and it is bad if you wanted to have a story that you are planning. You wanted your baby in Sims 3 to age up to young adult already so you can continue the story you are planning? Oh look your sim has now earned bad traits as punishment in doing that. Why I am forced to train my toddler, and have high grades for my child? Its curfew time, and my child sim is watching a movie in the cinema with his father. I send the child to the park for a moment to use the bathroom, and now here comes the police and the father just punished my child sim without giving me warnings. Why I am forced with that feature? Like vampires, since there is no option to let you notify or even ask you to do punishments or not, the only way to remove it is by uninstalling that 40$ expansion pack. Tell me where is the option to turn off aspiration failure, punishments with aging, and even with curfews with Sims 2 and Sims 3?

    You could completely ignore your sims aspiration and not be punished in any way. I know because I rarely have them achieve thier life time aspiration. Sometimes if their aspiration score is low then yes you will get aspiration failure but again not always. I play the sims 2 daily. My sims are not constantly in aspiration failure and I play my game how I want not how the game tells me. If I want my sim to achieve their life time goal it's up to me. It's my choice. I love the freedom of no checklists and no do this and do that to achieve your aspiration.

    I do agree sims 3 curfews were annoying. (Sims 2 don't have them) and that sims 3 punishments can be annoying. (Being grounded where you can't leave the house even for school makes no sense) but what I do like is that my sims 3 sims react to bad behaviour. There's no strolling in at 4am having ignored your curfew and cheerily sitting down next to your parents to discuss your fear of vampires whilst your parents completely disregard the fact that you were meant to be home nine hours ago and don't say a word. True story that.

    What I love about the earlier games is there are consequences and my characters will react, not always how I want but they will react according to their personalities, when I play the sims 4 it's like: "oh little Johnny has missed curfew again, better go and react Mum and Dad! *clicks punish under parenting* To me while I appreciate the choices (and I do) it doesn't feel right to me that I have to make them. I always think, if they don't care, why the heck should I?
  • FloppyFishFloppyFish Posts: 3,881 Member
    TS1299 wrote: »
    Jaline33 wrote: »
    I've also seen an interesting review on Sims 2 Nighlife saying:
    "A solid expansion, although I really wouldn't call it a must-have because it's a little light on content for its price tag." Considering it's content is the equivalent of The Sims 4 Get Together, Bowling Night, Vampires AND Dine Out made me think if I'm spending my money wisely, what do you guys think about this?

    Well, if this is the case then yes, you are indeed wasting your money :D
    I can't say I fully agree (especially not that ts2 vampires = ts4 vampires) but that's irrelevant because it isn't my money being spent on what I deem to be the exact same thing.

    In some respects, TS2 were > TS4 vampires. Again: choices. Options. Those two qualities are virtually non-existent in TS4 - we are forced to play how the game wants us to play. In TS2 and TS3, we had options - we could avoid vampires altogether if we wanted to and/or eliminate them from our games. In TS4, all we can do is uninstall the GP which means we also don't get the Build/Buy/CAS stuff.

    This is one of the biggest flaws in TS4 regarding quality.

    And it was the same with the previous games. I always wonder why do people always think that the developers or The Sims 4 itself always forces us the way we wanted to play, as if the other games in the series didn't so.
    Other games also "forced you to play how the game wants us to play"
    Don't want to follow your sims aspiration in The Sims 2? Your sim is now experiencing an aspiration failure, and it is bad if you wanted to have a story that you are planning. You wanted your baby in Sims 3 to age up to young adult already so you can continue the story you are planning? Oh look your sim has now earned bad traits as punishment in doing that. Why I am forced to train my toddler, and have high grades for my child? Its curfew time, and my child sim is watching a movie in the cinema with his father. I send the child to the park for a moment to use the bathroom, and now here comes the police and the father just punished my child sim without giving me warnings. Why I am forced with that feature? Like vampires, since there is no option to let you notify or even ask you to do punishments or not, the only way to remove it is by uninstalling that 40$ expansion pack. Tell me where is the option to turn off aspiration failure, punishments with aging, and even with curfews with Sims 2 and Sims 3?

    You could completely ignore your sims aspiration and not be punished in any way. I know because I rarely have them achieve thier life time aspiration. Sometimes if their aspiration score is low then yes you will get aspiration failure but again not always. I play the sims 2 daily. My sims are not constantly in aspiration failure and I play my game how I want not how the game tells me. If I want my sim to achieve their life time goal it's up to me. It's my choice. I love the freedom of no checklists and no do this and do that to achieve your aspiration.

    I do agree sims 3 curfews were annoying. (Sims 2 don't have them) and that sims 3 punishments can be annoying. (Being grounded where you can't leave the house even for school makes no sense) but what I do like is that my sims 3 sims react to bad behaviour. There's no strolling in at 4am having ignored your curfew and cheerily sitting down next to your parents to discuss your fear of vampires whilst your parents completely disregard the fact that you were meant to be home nine hours ago and don't say a word. True story that.

    What I love about the earlier games is there are consequences and my characters will react, not always how I want but they will react according to their personalities, when I play the sims 4 it's like: "oh little Johnny has missed curfew again, better go and react Mum and Dad! *clicks punish under parenting* To me while I appreciate the choices (and I do) it doesn't feel right to me that I have to make them. I always think, if they don't care, why the heck should I?

    They will care if you make them care. It is so you have choice. Something you just seem so deprived of.
    Mafia Stats
    Games Played: 14 | Games Won: 8 | Games Lost: 6
    Times Town: 9 | Times Mafia: 2 | Times 3rd: 2
    Town Wins: 6 | Mafia Wins: 1 | 3rd Wins: 1
    Deaths: 8

  • Sigzy05Sigzy05 Posts: 19,406 Member
    Sims 4 has neither quality or quantity, so that is that

    Sureee. Sims 4 has no quality. Because you say so. Thats not a statement that should be taken seriously.Ever.

    And Im sure, like always,sims 3 has the "quality" lol.

    Nope, sims 2 has the best quality and quantity of the series. Sims 3 is good too but not as good as sims 2. An EP in ts2 actually gave you real gameplay changing content instead of the so called ''gameplay objects'' and set dressing ts4 packs give you. Ts4 EPs don't make playing the game more fun they just give you animations. For example apartement life added so much stuff to normal gameplay like reputation, social classes, real apartments. Nightlife added an attraction system (turn ons/off), fury, tons of new NPCs. You know stuff that actually makes the game deeper and more fun.

    Tis true.
    mHdgPlU.jpg?1
  • Sigzy05Sigzy05 Posts: 19,406 Member
    edited September 2017
    Triplis wrote: »
    I think I finally get it. Sims 2 was known for adding new gameplay systems, similar to how Get Together added clubs and groups in TS4. TS4 has added few new gameplay systems like that. Most of what's added is new gameplay, but not new gameplay systems. Some of you are looking for new gameplay systems. I really think I get it now. That's why Vampires and Get Together are two of the most commonly agreed upon "good" packs of TS4, even amongst its critics; they both added distinctly new gameplay systems. Which means Cats and Dogs will probably be universally well-received for those who love "character" customization (e.g. the customizing of pets' looks and such). But if its gameplay systems are too similar to, say, toddlers, it may get targeted by the same kind of ire as a lot of this game's content.

    I have either figured out something revelatory (for me anyway, I don't presume to suggest that others weren't aware) or I need to go to bed. At 4am, it's impossible to tell.

    The gameplay system you talk about is called a FEATURE. A gameplay feature. CL has no gameplay features since lot traits were added to the base game as a patch. The lot traits CL has don't add anything new to the game that impacts sims. Only quality of food, some moodlets/buffs.

    The festivals of CL also don't include any new objects. Geekcon uses base game content only, a side from the console which is a gameplay object. Love festival and jinks festival use recycled fountains from the Luxury Stuff Pack but with slightly different models that give buffs to the sims. The only new things for festivals are the fireworks and fire crackers and the bubble blowers. It's the worst Expansion in sims history because it literally doesn't add anything. The apartment "neighbors" knocking on your door isn't exactly amazing, it's nice and I'm glad it's there but it doesn't really do anything and can be annoying.


    GT adds the club system that includes club perks. It's a nice feature but I wish GT came with more content to play with it. You need to have other packs if you want to experience sims doing new things as a club. GT should have had pool tables for sims to play together, bowling alleys (that came separate in a SP and for some odd unnecessary reason it's a full skill), shuffle boards etc, in addition to the arcade machine, darts, don't wake the llama and foosball.

    GTW added the retail system as a new feature, and uses the event system for the active careers that add many gameplay objects to the game.
    mHdgPlU.jpg?1
  • JoAnne65JoAnne65 Posts: 22,959 Member
    TS1299 wrote: »
    Jaline33 wrote: »
    I've also seen an interesting review on Sims 2 Nighlife saying:
    "A solid expansion, although I really wouldn't call it a must-have because it's a little light on content for its price tag." Considering it's content is the equivalent of The Sims 4 Get Together, Bowling Night, Vampires AND Dine Out made me think if I'm spending my money wisely, what do you guys think about this?

    Well, if this is the case then yes, you are indeed wasting your money :D
    I can't say I fully agree (especially not that ts2 vampires = ts4 vampires) but that's irrelevant because it isn't my money being spent on what I deem to be the exact same thing.

    In some respects, TS2 were > TS4 vampires. Again: choices. Options. Those two qualities are virtually non-existent in TS4 - we are forced to play how the game wants us to play. In TS2 and TS3, we had options - we could avoid vampires altogether if we wanted to and/or eliminate them from our games. In TS4, all we can do is uninstall the GP which means we also don't get the Build/Buy/CAS stuff.

    This is one of the biggest flaws in TS4 regarding quality.

    And it was the same with the previous games. I always wonder why do people always think that the developers or The Sims 4 itself always forces us the way we wanted to play, as if the other games in the series didn't so.
    Other games also "forced you to play how the game wants us to play"
    Don't want to follow your sims aspiration in The Sims 2? Your sim is now experiencing an aspiration failure, and it is bad if you wanted to have a story that you are planning. You wanted your baby in Sims 3 to age up to young adult already so you can continue the story you are planning? Oh look your sim has now earned bad traits as punishment in doing that. Why I am forced to train my toddler, and have high grades for my child? Its curfew time, and my child sim is watching a movie in the cinema with his father. I send the child to the park for a moment to use the bathroom, and now here comes the police and the father just punished my child sim without giving me warnings. Why I am forced with that feature? Like vampires, since there is no option to let you notify or even ask you to do punishments or not, the only way to remove it is by uninstalling that 40$ expansion pack. Tell me where is the option to turn off aspiration failure, punishments with aging, and even with curfews with Sims 2 and Sims 3?

    You could completely ignore your sims aspiration and not be punished in any way. I know because I rarely have them achieve thier life time aspiration. Sometimes if their aspiration score is low then yes you will get aspiration failure but again not always. I play the sims 2 daily. My sims are not constantly in aspiration failure and I play my game how I want not how the game tells me. If I want my sim to achieve their life time goal it's up to me. It's my choice. I love the freedom of no checklists and no do this and do that to achieve your aspiration.

    I do agree sims 3 curfews were annoying. (Sims 2 don't have them) and that sims 3 punishments can be annoying. (Being grounded where you can't leave the house even for school makes no sense) but what I do like is that my sims 3 sims react to bad behaviour. There's no strolling in at 4am having ignored your curfew and cheerily sitting down next to your parents to discuss your fear of vampires whilst your parents completely disregard the fact that you were meant to be home nine hours ago and don't say a word. True story that.

    What I love about the earlier games is there are consequences and my characters will react, not always how I want but they will react according to their personalities, when I play the sims 4 it's like: "oh little Johnny has missed curfew again, better go and react Mum and Dad! *clicks punish under parenting* To me while I appreciate the choices (and I do) it doesn't feel right to me that I have to make them. I always think, if they don't care, why the heck should I?
    As for the bold: someone explained a while ago your teen actually can go to school, as long as mom or dad takes them there. Which in fact makes sense.
    (agree with the rest)
    5JZ57S6.png
  • MidnightAuraMidnightAura Posts: 5,809 Member
    FloppyFish wrote: »
    TS1299 wrote: »
    Jaline33 wrote: »
    I've also seen an interesting review on Sims 2 Nighlife saying:
    "A solid expansion, although I really wouldn't call it a must-have because it's a little light on content for its price tag." Considering it's content is the equivalent of The Sims 4 Get Together, Bowling Night, Vampires AND Dine Out made me think if I'm spending my money wisely, what do you guys think about this?

    Well, if this is the case then yes, you are indeed wasting your money :D
    I can't say I fully agree (especially not that ts2 vampires = ts4 vampires) but that's irrelevant because it isn't my money being spent on what I deem to be the exact same thing.

    In some respects, TS2 were > TS4 vampires. Again: choices. Options. Those two qualities are virtually non-existent in TS4 - we are forced to play how the game wants us to play. In TS2 and TS3, we had options - we could avoid vampires altogether if we wanted to and/or eliminate them from our games. In TS4, all we can do is uninstall the GP which means we also don't get the Build/Buy/CAS stuff.

    This is one of the biggest flaws in TS4 regarding quality.

    And it was the same with the previous games. I always wonder why do people always think that the developers or The Sims 4 itself always forces us the way we wanted to play, as if the other games in the series didn't so.
    Other games also "forced you to play how the game wants us to play"
    Don't want to follow your sims aspiration in The Sims 2? Your sim is now experiencing an aspiration failure, and it is bad if you wanted to have a story that you are planning. You wanted your baby in Sims 3 to age up to young adult already so you can continue the story you are planning? Oh look your sim has now earned bad traits as punishment in doing that. Why I am forced to train my toddler, and have high grades for my child? Its curfew time, and my child sim is watching a movie in the cinema with his father. I send the child to the park for a moment to use the bathroom, and now here comes the police and the father just punished my child sim without giving me warnings. Why I am forced with that feature? Like vampires, since there is no option to let you notify or even ask you to do punishments or not, the only way to remove it is by uninstalling that 40$ expansion pack. Tell me where is the option to turn off aspiration failure, punishments with aging, and even with curfews with Sims 2 and Sims 3?

    You could completely ignore your sims aspiration and not be punished in any way. I know because I rarely have them achieve thier life time aspiration. Sometimes if their aspiration score is low then yes you will get aspiration failure but again not always. I play the sims 2 daily. My sims are not constantly in aspiration failure and I play my game how I want not how the game tells me. If I want my sim to achieve their life time goal it's up to me. It's my choice. I love the freedom of no checklists and no do this and do that to achieve your aspiration.

    I do agree sims 3 curfews were annoying. (Sims 2 don't have them) and that sims 3 punishments can be annoying. (Being grounded where you can't leave the house even for school makes no sense) but what I do like is that my sims 3 sims react to bad behaviour. There's no strolling in at 4am having ignored your curfew and cheerily sitting down next to your parents to discuss your fear of vampires whilst your parents completely disregard the fact that you were meant to be home nine hours ago and don't say a word. True story that.

    What I love about the earlier games is there are consequences and my characters will react, not always how I want but they will react according to their personalities, when I play the sims 4 it's like: "oh little Johnny has missed curfew again, better go and react Mum and Dad! *clicks punish under parenting* To me while I appreciate the choices (and I do) it doesn't feel right to me that I have to make them. I always think, if they don't care, why the heck should I?

    They will care if you make them care. It is so you have choice. Something you just seem so deprived of.

    But I just think it's strange I have to go and make them care, I would rather they react. Don't take away the players choice, just have the sim do something rather than just stare at the walls whilst the toddler paints the floor!
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