To be honest, my original opinion of Sims 3 when I first tried it (and the 2nd time) wasn't very good either. It wasn't until a "Well, the price is so low I may as well get it" sale that I bought the starter bundle. And even then it was more a case of "Well, I own the game now. I guess I should play it a bit" initially. Then I found myself being pulled in by the very things that I'd initially thought made Sims 3 boring.
So who knows, maybe Sims 4 will draw me in the same way. it's got a year to do it's best after all.
Fear not the fae, for they are harmless. Anger not the fae, beware their wraith. Harm not the fae, fear the Faerie Knight.
I still haven't got even the half of Sims 3 expansions even though I bought it when it first came out at... 2009, wasn't it? Plus the sims games are so price-y. I'd like to try out Sims 4 someday but not too interested right now.
@Faerie197 For me playing that basegame caused me to go from a firm "I'm never going to play this game" (it wasn't mine) to "Why can't I even stop thinking about it.....?" though
World Adventures is one of my favorites too and I only ever did the tombs to get the certificate once for my tester sim. I put more leisurely things to do in the areas while visiting, and try to incorporate a little of the feeling into the home worlds.
I'm a 'real gamer' (as silly of an idea that is) in that I've played every other genre of game ad nauseam during the years, and I've kept coming back to the sims for the better part of each year since Sims 1. I still feel like the concept of the world adventures expansion was a step in the wrong direction for the franchise. I feel like they were trying to shoehorn in other gameplay that is done much better elsewhere, instead of just rehashing vacations like I would have preferred they did. To me, I would have been happy (only for Sims 3) just getting back my favorite expansions because they made leaps with 3 that make it hard for me to go back to 1 or 2. I suppose that's yet another reason why I feel like 4 is not for me. I am a little biter in retrospect that it took hundreds of dollars of store items to try and replicate Open for Business and Bon Voyage in Sims 3.
I don't mean to single out WA for questionable gameplay choices, 3 felt more task/achievement driven with the expansions than sandbox to me. I was trying to take some pictures for a home, and I got a popup every single time 'Why don't you take pictures of something else?' At least once I audibly protested 'Why don't you mind your own business?!' When I actually play I have so many mods that turn off little annoyances (expansion added features) so that I can keep expansions installed to use the single window or item from it that I bought it for. The titles of the tuning mods are telling of other's feelings on the choices. 'No stalker ice cream truck, zombies don't attack plants, no coughing while eating, less annoying x."
I would love a more mature (read less insulting to the player base) life/architecture simulator game. I've played the sims for half my life, and I don't think I could call myself a 'sims fan.' I enjoy what I can do with the game, with mods, but I don't like that I feel like mods are mandatory to fix things and to remove some of the more glaring annoyances. I doubt I could have played the game off the shelf after the early expansions of Sims 2. I don't really have any fondness for freezer bunnies, grilled cheeses, tragic clowns or lamas, they were just sort of there. I would love to see a different game house create something remotely similar. Or I would like it if EA/Maxis actually went back and looked critically at what worked and what didn't and retooled the game in each incarnation instead of just repackaging it.
I have a feeling people interprete sandbox in different ways. Sandbox to me simply means the game can go on and on forever if I want to, in every single way I want to. That doesn't necessarily mean there can't be tasks and challenges to finish in between. The 'why don't you' is a suggestion. A way to make you aware you can follow a line for your sim in photography if you want to. If you don't, you don't. Nothing bad will happen and you can still hang those pictures on the wall and your sim will get more and more skilled anyway. You can play the game as free or lineair as you please. But it all is sandbox nevertheless.
As for WA: for me other games don't do that better. Because I'm a simmer, not a gamer, and the fact my sim can go everywhere and socialize and do other things in those worlds is important. I've played many adventurers, but none of their adventures felt the same. Because they had different backgrounds and stories and characters. And as for tomb exploring: I love it. I wouldn't know what way could be better. Probably because I'm not a gamer. What feels better to a gamer doesn't have to be better for a simmer. I find Bon Voyage pretty boring by the way. IP did vacation much better for me.
As for WA: for me other games don't do that better. Because I'm a simmer, not a gamer, and the fact my sim can go everywhere and socialize and do other things in those worlds is important. I've played many adventurers, but none of their adventures felt the same. Because they had different backgrounds and stories and characters. And as for tomb exploring: I love it. I wouldn't know what way could be better. Probably because I'm not a gamer. What feels better to a gamer doesn't have to be better for a simmer. I find Bon Voyage pretty boring by the way. IP did vacation much better for me.
That's fair, I enjoyed Bon Voyage because of the little carnival games those were brought back piecemeal in Seasons for the festival lots, showtimes arcade games and the store with the roller coaster, circus and arcade lots. I enjoyed carnivals as a girl and I like camping and hiking so I suppose I preferred the less guided approach to what to do. It wasn't without it's faults either, when I did stay on a hotel lot I remember waiting 9 sim hours for the waiter to show up with food and nonsense like that. I love the boats and water activities introduced in Island Paradise, I still am amazed to see that in a sims game. I didn't like the unfinished laggy world that came with it, and that none of the original worlds were retrofitted for boats so I spent months in CAW before I could even try it out. (Yes I know you -could- drop a few lots in with the in game editor routing be plumed but you had to rebuild the worlds in CAW if you hoped to have them playable long term.) But again, that's game house management issues and not the game direction choices.
I can completely see how if you were not familiar with that type of gameplay that the tombs could be really fun. They are cute (Just don't look up at the white ceilings it kind of ruins the atmosphere) and I hope to eventually try them in earnest but I just felt they were in the way of how I wanted to explore the area. If that makes sense.
I consider a sandbox a platform that has tools but no structured guided activity. I consider a game like Minecraft to be a sandbox game, and the live mode of sims to be a time management simulator game. The build mode is where the Sims gets to be a sandbox. I suppose some people consider the gameplay sandbox like, I just find it far more directed than it's previous incarnations. I just feel like the later versions of the sims (4 being the worst offender) lock content behind arbitrary gameplay walls. World Adventures introduced it with the tomb exploration being tied to the duration you could stay, Showtime smacked it with Simport introducing the idea of multiplayer interaction to unlock your single player content. There were always aspiration/lifetime rewards but they were usually cheaty items that made sense I suppose to be locked behind relevant game play but with showtime it was stage decorations, which make sense to be tied to career progression but not multiplayer interaction, in sims 4 it's as mundane as a chair.
The 'why don't you' is a suggestion. A way to make you aware you can follow a line for your sim in photography if you want to. If you don't, you don't. Nothing bad will happen and you can still hang those pictures on the wall and your sim will get more and more skilled anyway. You can play the game as free or lineair as you please. But it all is sandbox nevertheless.
I can see that, but you understand when I had to click that 'suggestion' message box off 15 times in a row it feels a little more annoying than a gentle guide. Why not only once per play session? Why every single time I take a picture? I suppose to me that's the big difference in how the game feels to me. I felt the invisible eyes of the developer over my shoulder often when I way just trying to have my own fun with the game.
@Jessabeans Yes, that message (photography) irritates me as well, but that's because they implemented it in an irritating way. When my sim starts mixing drinks the game comes with suggestions as well. Just not by pushy notifications but by handing whims you can either ignore or lock in. In fact that system is one of the reasons TS3 is more suitable for me than Sims 4, where the game reacts in no way whatsoever to what I'm doing with my sim ("buy a toy, buy a toy, buy a toy, why don't you buy that freaking toy even after you bought 5 already and your sim has no kids and isn't planning to any time soon!!"). Somehow they felt they needed to pamper us when they designed photography, thinking we would appreciate that 'nice try but you're doing it all wrong there' message in your face the whole time. Comparable by the way to sending my sim in TS2 on a date, where I have to jump through all kind of hoops and in the end the game decides if it was a good date or not.
If WA had such a system, I would get irritated as well, but it doesn't. As long as my sim stays away from the adventure board they can do whatever they like and the game is totally fine with that. I looked up the term sandbox and according to this source it means:
A sandbox is a style of game in which minimal character limitations are placed on the gamer, allowing the gamer to roam and change a virtual world at will. In contrast to a progression-style game, a sandbox game emphasizes roaming and allows a gamer to select tasks. Instead of featuring segmented areas or numbered levels, a sandbox game usually occurs in a “world” to which the gamer has full access from start to finish. A sandbox game is also known as an open-world or free-roaming game.
Sandbox games can include structured elements – such as mini-games, tasks, submissions and storylines – that may be ignored by gamers. In fact, the sandbox game's nonlinear nature creates storyline challenges for game designers. For this reason, tasks and side missions usually follow a progression, where tasks are unlocked upon successful task completion.
I don't like the very lineair approach of Sims 4's gameplay, for me that's boring (I have the same issue with Ambitions). But I also don't like the option to go 100% freestyle with the game, because apparently I do need that guiding hand. It's hard for me to pinpoint exactly why, but in Sims 3 somehow that falls into place for me. The game allows me to play out every story I want to, stories I would never had come up with without the game and its suggestions. WA is for breaking away from that freedom every now and then for a couple of sim days - though quite often the storyline continues there in a way as well - and because it's not lineair and involves real exploring and having to think and take care in an easy going way, I love the gameplay.
I played Sims 2 after I had played Sims 3 for years, and though I liked the restaurant, the hotel I must confess was a disappointment for me (because I couldn't see the other guests, only hear them which was kind of spooky ) and the ruins - being used to TS3 tombs - were a let down. I can go camping and build sand castles with my sims in TS3 as well, that wasn't new for me. And on top of that my sim can dive, meet mermaids and discover secret islands. I've always had a feeling WA was disappointing for experienced players because they mistakenly considered it a vacation EP and it wasn't. I was completely new to the game, had fallen in love with it head over heals and unexpectedly and bought WA as soon as I discovered there was such a thing as an expansion (it had been released a month before I started playing). Maybe therefore I've never considered it vacation. Rather my sim going Indiana Jones
I played Sims 2 after I had played Sims 3 for years, and though I liked the restaurant, the hotel I must confess was a disappointment for me (because I couldn't see the other guests, only hear them which was kind of spooky ) and the ruins - being used to TS3 tombs - were a let down. I can go camping and build sand castles with my sims in TS3 as well, that wasn't new for me. And on top of that my sim can dive, meet mermaids and discover secret islands. I've always had a feeling WA was disappointing for experienced players because they mistakenly considered it a vacation EP and it wasn't. I was completely new to the game, had fallen in love with it head over heals and unexpectedly and bought WA as soon as I discovered there was such a thing as an expansion (it had been released a month before I started playing). Maybe therefore I've never considered it vacation. Rather my sim going Indiana Jones
Oh wow, that makes a lot more sense. Yeah going to 2 after 3 I can see how that was disappointing, I bought each expansion of 2 as it was new(ish) Bon Voyage was a rehash of The Sims: Vacation (which I also bought at release, so I didn't have a future version to compare it to at the time) and at the time I was happy with it's improvements, Bon Voyage was the first time in a sims game they could go in the water at all. They could only go in the ocean on beach adjoining lots (remember this was before the open world of Sims 3 was even announced yet) it was so freeing to have them walk up to and (barely) in the water. I suppose that's why I so giddy about the existence of Island paradise's added features. (Not the world though, shame on you EA!)
I think I would have been happier with World adventures at the end of the Sims development cycle than the first expansion? It was jarring, expecting to have a grocery store again and just some of the basics that were missing in the base game and getting erm what is this? Dungeon crawling, okay why? Now that I have nothing but time, I hope to go back and enjoy each expansion for what it is. When it was released it was frustrating knowing they are only going to make so many and then move on. I think it's the same disappointment people felt with Showtime being so similar to Late Night. I am glad they decided to revisit vacations and release Island Paradise.
I suppose everyone has their bases for comparison when it comes to games. When I think of a sandbox game, honestly I think of Star Wars Galaxies. When it was first released you chose a planet and were dropped off in the wilderness with a melon and a tattered dress. You had to take off walking to even find someone to ask what to do (as if they knew either.) I can see how that level of directionlessness was as off-putting to some people as the hand-holding theme park ride that was the new player tutorial added in with the NGE change of the game. It was my first MMO so I really could have used a tutorial, I didn't know ~ was called a tilde key, not the squiggly button. The squiggly button was used for everything and I didn't know what button people meant, I think I might have cried a little. I was put off the game when I could have been enjoying it for longer.
I can see how the Sims needs to stay approachable for new players, it just needs to have the option to get toggled off when you don't want it. I suppose that term in tossed about to mean different things to different people but having a clear definition could help people understand if that's even what they are asking for. Sims 4 was very off putting to me too, it was reminisce of the Hot Date system, but at all times. I tried out the get together thing after a review made it look more interesting than it was, it made inviting someone to drink coffee so stressful. Sims 2 had the same problem with trying to join a sorority in University. You had to jump through hoops to participate in a 'party' the right way.
I agree that the gentle suggestions of what to do was an improvement over the wants system of 2, generally you visited a lot and your sims would want to do something that was there. I guess it was just poorly implemented in some aspects (like photography, I guess it's nice there was a collection aspect for those that are into that but it was irritating if you just wanted to make a restaurant menu without adding CC in.)
I don't feel like they gotten it right in any version, but I can see that they have a pretty wide variation on expectations. I used to feel like they were trying to get there, but 4 feels like they not only took steps back, but back in the wrong direction entirely. I suppose 4 feels the least like something for everyone than the previous versions.
This should suggest my views on TS4. I'm giving it a fair shake now, but 8 hours in and I just can't convince myself to play for more then a few minutes at a time still.
By comparison, when I first tried TS3 I played for 4 hours, and found it boring. I came back the next day and played for another 4 hours. Yet it was still boring. A few months later I reinstalled thanks to Gamefly once again, and gave the game a shot. 8 hours later I uninstalled thinking "man that was boring." Once I actually owned the game though, I still thought it boring at first. But I'd play for 4 to 8 hours then shut the game down. Only to find myself going back to TS3 a few minutes later to play some more. By the time I had hit 48 hours played I was no longer saying to myself "Man this is boring." Instead I was asking myself "When did I fall in love with this game?"
As yet, Sims 4 has failed to even achieve that original "that was boring, I can't believe I did that for hours" feeling that TS3 elicited in me. Instead it feels like I have to convince myself to sign into the game, and find myself signing back out a half hour later, at most. Most of my 8 hours logged in were more of an attempt to give the game a fair shake, but it just don't hold my interest.
Fear not the fae, for they are harmless. Anger not the fae, beware their wraith. Harm not the fae, fear the Faerie Knight.
@Jessabeans I must add that though playing Sims 2 after Sims 3 brought some 'disappointments', it also showed me what people were talking about when they complained about Sims 3. Some things that version definitely had better. It's also personal of course. For me open world and CASt are a necessity to really enjoy the game I can conclude now (I never realized because I took those features for granted all those years), where to others different features matter more. And I can totally understand your different perspective concernig WA being the first EP. For me everything was brand new: genetics, starting a family, raise children in the game, learning how to play the guitar, earn money, I loved it all. I was surprised there turned out to be an expansion in the first place. But for a player who had been doing that in Sims 2 and better, Sims 3 basegame fell short in that department and they needed other content than me.
As for the photography feature by the way, I've never really been into collecting everything in the game and photos are no exception. I've only ever used photography for my sims for them to take nice pictures to hang on their walls
Unfortunately, I'm not sure if I'm ever going to get to the point where I'll even bother spending money to buy TS4. I've tried its demo...but it's not like TS3 where during my recovery from pneumonia (and subsequent fluoroquinolone poisoning), I was playing up to 16 hours a day just to keep myself sane. Being stuck immobile, managing to only limp to the kitchen to get food (one of fluoroquinolone antibiotics lovely little side-effects is the potential for tendon rupture in any ligament that you may end up being "supported by", legs, ankles, toes...)...and maybe wash a few dishes gets to be claustrophobic to a guy who loves to be outdoors at all hours. That's why I went from 0-2000+ hours in the space of March to August 2017 (I drove my wife crazy from November 2016 to end of February 2017 going "I'm bored...can't go anywhere...stuck in here...What to do?" She finally said, "PLAY SIMS!!!" so I did...and here I am now...) in playing Sims 3. TS4 can never do that - keep my interest for that long and there are too many things to list that are annoying about it to make me even want to play it. Perhaps like one other Simmer said...making 100 storey high toilets may be fun (for a while) but that gets old pretty quickly.
OK...maybe making ONE 100 storey high toilet...and watching them dance around and getting sad emotions...because they can't use the toilet and have an "angry pee" might be hysterically amusing to a sadist (like me ~evil smirk~) but yeah...even that might grow tiresome after awhile too.
Always "River McIrish" ...and maybe some Bebe Hart. ~innocent expression~
I sometimes wish I'd never invested in ts4. But I have had a lot of fun with it at times. At other times though, the many bugs will descend upon me like a plague of locusts and I am severely put off it with a mountain of frustration.
I dearly loved ts2 in its day and it will always have a special place in my heart, but nothing can compare to ts3 with its open world and cast. The game still manages to wow me - all I need to do is load up a hood and look at some scenery and I am instantly wowed. The fact that I can control multiple sims spread out anywhere in the world is an unbeatable element to the game.
Of course, cast is the other unbeatable element. I have just spent the weekend editing Lots in a few of my worlds and having such extreme fun doing it - for an ocd person like me, putting any texture and colour on whatever I darn well want is my idea of simming heaven
I sometimes wish I'd never invested in ts4. But I have had a lot of fun with it at times. At other times though, the many bugs will descend upon me like a plague of locusts and I am severely put off it with a mountain of frustration.
Today I went through all my TS4 screenshots. I have so many sims that I like, so many lots, and quite a few rounds of enjoyable simming, but I ans stuck with the question of why don't I love this game and play to death? I have a lot of pieces for a cool sim games, but not enough to complete it, and no guarantee that I will ever get the needed pieces. Plus it's all going so slooooow. I only play when new content comes out, then I get bored and stop playing.
I dearly loved ts2 in its day and it will always have a special place in my heart, but nothing can compare to ts3 with its open world and cast. The game still manages to wow me - all I need to do is load up a hood and look at some scenery and I am instantly wowed. The fact that I can control multiple sims spread out anywhere in the world is an unbeatable element to the game.
That's what I love about TS3. I like having my sims all available to me and choosing who I currently want to follow with the freedom to jump to the rest the household at any time. There are times when you don't need to watch a sim pounding on an invention at a crafting table, or watching them read a skill book. You can be with another sim doing more important and interesting stuff.
Of course, cast is the other unbeatable element. I have just spent the weekend editing Lots in a few of my worlds and having such extreme fun doing it - for an ocd person like me, putting any texture and colour on whatever I darn well want is my idea of simming heaven
Same here.
This Lion's head came in wood, but I was able to use CASt to copy the wall texture to make it look like it was carved out of the same material.
That's what I love about TS3. I like having my sims all available to me and choosing who I currently want to follow with the freedom to jump to the rest the household at any time. There are times when you don't need to watch a sim pounding on an invention at a crafting table, or watching them read a skill book. You can be another sim doing more important and interesting stuff.
This.
There are players who try TS3 and keep trying to amuse themselves by playing households of one sim or by sending one sim at a time to Uni, etc. I think that's great if one is just learning their way around the game, but I haven't been able to play that way for a very long time. Feels like some of the things we have our sims do become boring to watch on purpose, by design I mean, such as reading a book, painting, taking a nap, working in a rabbit hole, creating something, etc. That way we can spend that time focusing on other household members who need more interactive attention, possibly in all different places across town. Or, of course, one can always watch the town and maybe snoop on the neighbors during periods of interactive "downtime" instead.
Granted with a household of over 12 sims or so (mods), while I can still manage them okay, for me the game becomes less fun and more like work or trying to spin too many plates in the air at the same time. But in between there is this great sweet spot TS3 offers for simultaneous simulations of very different scenes to keep us engaged and amused throughout most of the sim day.
This is a huge reason, admittedly among others like its design tools, why so many players still find this iteration of the game satisfying, manage to forgive many of the flaws EA left unfixed in the game and/or find ways to improve things with mods, and regardless still just keep playing it.
Granted with a household of over 12 sims or so (mods), while I can still manage them okay, for me the game becomes less fun and more like work or trying to spin too many plates in the air at the same time. But in between there is this great sweet spot TS3 offers for simultaneous simulations of very different scenes to keep us engaged and amused throughout most of the sim day.
This is a huge reason, admittedly among others like its design tools, why so many players still find this iteration of the game satisfying, manage to forgive many of the flaws EA left unfixed in the game and/or find ways to improve things with mods, and regardless still just keep playing it.
Yeah, the sweet spot for me is 3 sims. Two parents & one off-spring. Although the save I'm currently playing has 1 sim parent, a plumbot (with sentient chip) she bought and ended up marrying and a toddler who is about to age up. Also, 2 horses with a foal on the way. The plumbot has level 10 Robotic skill, and built a nanny-bot to take care of the baby. When the toddler becomes a child, they are going to put another sentient chip in Manny and "let" him move out.
Am more shocked now that @JoAnne65 is not a teen,I pictured you in a room covered in Justin Beiber posters and a huge pikachu body pillow.Kidding Agree the game is geared toward that demographic and overall sillyness do not like that direction either.
I think Sims 4 proves how important the basic frame of this kind of game is. I think a lot of the seperate content they've added so far - even when there's serious lack of EP's in my opinion - is quite all right, but the frame, the base is too weak to carry it. The basic gameplay has to be fun and I really think that's exactly where Sims 4 is failing. Only when more content was added the game became more popular, but the call for more new stuff is heavy on this one. There is no replayability, because there is a total lack of the player's input this franchise rests upon (I'd like to appoint the lion as the perfect symbol for that). And there's the issues I saw described perfectly in this topic the other day.
Am more shocked now that @JoAnne65 is not a teen,I pictured you in a room covered in Justin Bieber posters and a huge pikachu body pillow.Kidding Agree the game is geared toward that demographic and overall sillyness do not like that direction either.
Lol No, as a teen I was your typical 'ABBA girl'. But that's a looooong time ago
Thread hijack: So @JoAnne65, Were you a Bjorn or Benny girl? I was more of a Agnetha...guy rather than Anni Frid.
Back to topic.
Asides from the irritating over-exaggerated animations of TS4 characters, the cartoonishly drawn Sims themselves, the fact that there are loading screens enough that you can't step outside your home without smacking your face into one, the fact that EA stripped the base game down so much that they didn't even include swimming pools in the base game or missed a lifestage (cough cough toddlers cough) and stuffed anything that they could into "stuff packs" you have to pay for "Ha, you want swimming pools. Pay up. cash cow...", they could have just given us a bare house to walk around and said "Guess what; you have to wait for the next SP to make your house liveable.
Oh wait, that might be the next concept for TS5. Then people can actually play on mobile. ~dripping sarcasm~ Gameplay will consist of SIms walking around in circles in their bare house with thought bubbles going up over their head with "Wouldn't this place be so nice if this was furnished?"
But...you gotta wait for the next STUFF PACK for that...coming out in 2020... And all replete with LOADING SCREENS for EVERY ROOM!
Always "River McIrish" ...and maybe some Bebe Hart. ~innocent expression~
Thread hijack: So @JoAnne65, Were you a Bjorn or Benny girl? I was more of a Agnetha...guy.
Lol, well, as it happens I was a Björn girl but now I must say, as an adult, I find Benny much more attractive At 14 I couldn't see through the beard I guess I suspect about every male out there was an Agnetha guy, she was gorgeous.
I did like Anni Frid though but she looked so "severe" sometimes in some of her pictures. I hear that she's partnered to a British Viscount now after the death of her third husband and a member of the House of Reuss in Thuringia.
Open World and CAW to create ones own worlds. That's only two of the things that makes TS3 one of the best games out there. It's the open world and the ability to roam around the whole map in a world that makes it so interesting to me. To not be limited by loading screensthe minute you step out your door. My hope is that they bring back open world, the computers nowadays are capable of it.
I'm no computer expert, but I've seen the types of worlds in games like Call of Duty or Skyrim where it loads once and then you're in it for the entirety of the game. The only limitation right now is the fact that you cannot control characters in Skyrim that you bring into a group...they remain NPCs whereas if you have that sort of engine in Sims, you'd have to be able to control them to get the same type of gameplay that you did in TS3.
There's three things that I want to see in TS5
1. A return to open-world play (no loading screens; the ability to go whereever you want to)
2. An update to 64bit OS.
3. An update in graphics more in line with what we've seen...a progression from TS3 graphics to...maybe...
This is a game called "Detroit Become Human" - where humans are trying to track down androids that have taken on the appearances of humans (sort of like Deckard in Blade Runner)
I know people will complain about the "uncanny valley" where Sims look like real humans but this is a "life-simulation" and I personally don't care two hoots about how close they come to realism, just that I feel that TS4 graphics was a step in the wrong direction.
I want to be able to spend my money on a game where I know that I will enjoy and TS4 was NOT that game and I haven't spent my money on that game because I know it doesn't fit the bill in what I'm looking for in a Sims game.
TS3 on the other hand has kept me engrossed for hours on end to the detriment of my computer and its poor CPU. And ever since I started playing TS3 seriously in March 2017, I've bought 5 EPs and am tracking down SPs and considering new worlds and have even managed to start downloading all sorts of mods.
TS4 doesn't even come close to immersing me in the game as much as TS3 has and THAT is why I won't spend ONE red cent on it.
Post edited by Nikkei_Simmer on
Always "River McIrish" ...and maybe some Bebe Hart. ~innocent expression~
I do think that veers way too far into realism, even for me. Yes, The Sims is a life simulation game, but it's always been a life simulation game with a silly, cartoony edge. Of course, The Sims 4 has veered way off into the cartoony side and has given us really mediocre, low detailed graphics and that's sad. So TS4 is EA going too far off the opposite edge. There is a fine line to tow between hyper-realism and TS4 low-quality cartoonyness. I think environmental graphics like that of a Pixar movie (just watch the new KH3 trailer from 3:10 on. This is IMO what an ideal TS game should look like for outdoors. It is gorgeous, highly detailed, but NOT in the least bit gritty and overdone hyperrealism) while keeping the Sims still with distinct overdone (but not too far) character like in TS2 or TS3, but with higher detail of course.
If EA makes a really highly detailed but not hyperrealistic game, I guarantee you that modders can probably bring you those kinds of graphics for Sims, but they should never look that realistic by default IMO.
Great comments everyone and to anyone who cannot work out the psychotic emotion system of sims 4 I can highly recommend the following thread That gave me hours of laughs as I followed The OP testing out his designated evil sim in a variety of situations to see if this supposedly better system actually works
I give you AN OBNOXIOUS PSYCHOSAUSAGE TESTS THE BOUNDARIES OF THE SIMS 4 EMOTIONS by EmberDahl
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So who knows, maybe Sims 4 will draw me in the same way. it's got a year to do it's best after all.
I'm a 'real gamer' (as silly of an idea that is) in that I've played every other genre of game ad nauseam during the years, and I've kept coming back to the sims for the better part of each year since Sims 1. I still feel like the concept of the world adventures expansion was a step in the wrong direction for the franchise. I feel like they were trying to shoehorn in other gameplay that is done much better elsewhere, instead of just rehashing vacations like I would have preferred they did. To me, I would have been happy (only for Sims 3) just getting back my favorite expansions because they made leaps with 3 that make it hard for me to go back to 1 or 2. I suppose that's yet another reason why I feel like 4 is not for me. I am a little biter in retrospect that it took hundreds of dollars of store items to try and replicate Open for Business and Bon Voyage in Sims 3.
I don't mean to single out WA for questionable gameplay choices, 3 felt more task/achievement driven with the expansions than sandbox to me. I was trying to take some pictures for a home, and I got a popup every single time 'Why don't you take pictures of something else?' At least once I audibly protested 'Why don't you mind your own business?!' When I actually play I have so many mods that turn off little annoyances (expansion added features) so that I can keep expansions installed to use the single window or item from it that I bought it for. The titles of the tuning mods are telling of other's feelings on the choices. 'No stalker ice cream truck, zombies don't attack plants, no coughing while eating, less annoying x."
I would love a more mature (read less insulting to the player base) life/architecture simulator game. I've played the sims for half my life, and I don't think I could call myself a 'sims fan.' I enjoy what I can do with the game, with mods, but I don't like that I feel like mods are mandatory to fix things and to remove some of the more glaring annoyances. I doubt I could have played the game off the shelf after the early expansions of Sims 2. I don't really have any fondness for freezer bunnies, grilled cheeses, tragic clowns or lamas, they were just sort of there. I would love to see a different game house create something remotely similar. Or I would like it if EA/Maxis actually went back and looked critically at what worked and what didn't and retooled the game in each incarnation instead of just repackaging it.
As for WA: for me other games don't do that better. Because I'm a simmer, not a gamer, and the fact my sim can go everywhere and socialize and do other things in those worlds is important. I've played many adventurers, but none of their adventures felt the same. Because they had different backgrounds and stories and characters. And as for tomb exploring: I love it. I wouldn't know what way could be better. Probably because I'm not a gamer. What feels better to a gamer doesn't have to be better for a simmer. I find Bon Voyage pretty boring by the way. IP did vacation much better for me.
That's fair, I enjoyed Bon Voyage because of the little carnival games those were brought back piecemeal in Seasons for the festival lots, showtimes arcade games and the store with the roller coaster, circus and arcade lots. I enjoyed carnivals as a girl and I like camping and hiking so I suppose I preferred the less guided approach to what to do. It wasn't without it's faults either, when I did stay on a hotel lot I remember waiting 9 sim hours for the waiter to show up with food and nonsense like that. I love the boats and water activities introduced in Island Paradise, I still am amazed to see that in a sims game. I didn't like the unfinished laggy world that came with it, and that none of the original worlds were retrofitted for boats so I spent months in CAW before I could even try it out. (Yes I know you -could- drop a few lots in with the in game editor routing be plumed but you had to rebuild the worlds in CAW if you hoped to have them playable long term.) But again, that's game house management issues and not the game direction choices.
I can completely see how if you were not familiar with that type of gameplay that the tombs could be really fun. They are cute (Just don't look up at the white ceilings it kind of ruins the atmosphere) and I hope to eventually try them in earnest but I just felt they were in the way of how I wanted to explore the area. If that makes sense.
I consider a sandbox a platform that has tools but no structured guided activity. I consider a game like Minecraft to be a sandbox game, and the live mode of sims to be a time management simulator game. The build mode is where the Sims gets to be a sandbox. I suppose some people consider the gameplay sandbox like, I just find it far more directed than it's previous incarnations. I just feel like the later versions of the sims (4 being the worst offender) lock content behind arbitrary gameplay walls. World Adventures introduced it with the tomb exploration being tied to the duration you could stay, Showtime smacked it with Simport introducing the idea of multiplayer interaction to unlock your single player content. There were always aspiration/lifetime rewards but they were usually cheaty items that made sense I suppose to be locked behind relevant game play but with showtime it was stage decorations, which make sense to be tied to career progression but not multiplayer interaction, in sims 4 it's as mundane as a chair.
I can see that, but you understand when I had to click that 'suggestion' message box off 15 times in a row it feels a little more annoying than a gentle guide. Why not only once per play session? Why every single time I take a picture? I suppose to me that's the big difference in how the game feels to me. I felt the invisible eyes of the developer over my shoulder often when I way just trying to have my own fun with the game.
If WA had such a system, I would get irritated as well, but it doesn't. As long as my sim stays away from the adventure board they can do whatever they like and the game is totally fine with that. I looked up the term sandbox and according to this source it means:
I don't like the very lineair approach of Sims 4's gameplay, for me that's boring (I have the same issue with Ambitions). But I also don't like the option to go 100% freestyle with the game, because apparently I do need that guiding hand. It's hard for me to pinpoint exactly why, but in Sims 3 somehow that falls into place for me. The game allows me to play out every story I want to, stories I would never had come up with without the game and its suggestions. WA is for breaking away from that freedom every now and then for a couple of sim days - though quite often the storyline continues there in a way as well - and because it's not lineair and involves real exploring and having to think and take care in an easy going way, I love the gameplay.
I played Sims 2 after I had played Sims 3 for years, and though I liked the restaurant, the hotel I must confess was a disappointment for me (because I couldn't see the other guests, only hear them which was kind of spooky
Oh wow, that makes a lot more sense. Yeah going to 2 after 3 I can see how that was disappointing, I bought each expansion of 2 as it was new(ish) Bon Voyage was a rehash of The Sims: Vacation (which I also bought at release, so I didn't have a future version to compare it to at the time) and at the time I was happy with it's improvements, Bon Voyage was the first time in a sims game they could go in the water at all. They could only go in the ocean on beach adjoining lots (remember this was before the open world of Sims 3 was even announced yet) it was so freeing to have them walk up to and (barely) in the water. I suppose that's why I so giddy about the existence of Island paradise's added features. (Not the world though, shame on you EA!)
I think I would have been happier with World adventures at the end of the Sims development cycle than the first expansion? It was jarring, expecting to have a grocery store again and just some of the basics that were missing in the base game and getting erm what is this? Dungeon crawling, okay why? Now that I have nothing but time, I hope to go back and enjoy each expansion for what it is. When it was released it was frustrating knowing they are only going to make so many and then move on. I think it's the same disappointment people felt with Showtime being so similar to Late Night. I am glad they decided to revisit vacations and release Island Paradise.
I suppose everyone has their bases for comparison when it comes to games. When I think of a sandbox game, honestly I think of Star Wars Galaxies. When it was first released you chose a planet and were dropped off in the wilderness with a melon and a tattered dress. You had to take off walking to even find someone to ask what to do (as if they knew either.) I can see how that level of directionlessness was as off-putting to some people as the hand-holding theme park ride that was the new player tutorial added in with the NGE change of the game. It was my first MMO so I really could have used a tutorial, I didn't know ~ was called a tilde key, not the squiggly button. The squiggly button was used for everything and I didn't know what button people meant, I think I might have cried a little. I was put off the game when I could have been enjoying it for longer.
I can see how the Sims needs to stay approachable for new players, it just needs to have the option to get toggled off when you don't want it. I suppose that term in tossed about to mean different things to different people but having a clear definition could help people understand if that's even what they are asking for. Sims 4 was very off putting to me too, it was reminisce of the Hot Date system, but at all times. I tried out the get together thing after a review made it look more interesting than it was, it made inviting someone to drink coffee so stressful. Sims 2 had the same problem with trying to join a sorority in University. You had to jump through hoops to participate in a 'party' the right way.
I agree that the gentle suggestions of what to do was an improvement over the wants system of 2, generally you visited a lot and your sims would want to do something that was there. I guess it was just poorly implemented in some aspects (like photography, I guess it's nice there was a collection aspect for those that are into that but it was irritating if you just wanted to make a restaurant menu without adding CC in.)
I don't feel like they gotten it right in any version, but I can see that they have a pretty wide variation on expectations. I used to feel like they were trying to get there, but 4 feels like they not only took steps back, but back in the wrong direction entirely. I suppose 4 feels the least like something for everyone than the previous versions.
By comparison, when I first tried TS3 I played for 4 hours, and found it boring. I came back the next day and played for another 4 hours. Yet it was still boring. A few months later I reinstalled thanks to Gamefly once again, and gave the game a shot. 8 hours later I uninstalled thinking "man that was boring." Once I actually owned the game though, I still thought it boring at first. But I'd play for 4 to 8 hours then shut the game down. Only to find myself going back to TS3 a few minutes later to play some more. By the time I had hit 48 hours played I was no longer saying to myself "Man this is boring." Instead I was asking myself "When did I fall in love with this game?"
As yet, Sims 4 has failed to even achieve that original "that was boring, I can't believe I did that for hours" feeling that TS3 elicited in me. Instead it feels like I have to convince myself to sign into the game, and find myself signing back out a half hour later, at most. Most of my 8 hours logged in were more of an attempt to give the game a fair shake, but it just don't hold my interest.
As for the photography feature by the way, I've never really been into collecting everything in the game and photos are no exception. I've only ever used photography for my sims for them to take nice pictures to hang on their walls
OK...maybe making ONE 100 storey high toilet...and watching them dance around and getting sad emotions...because they can't use the toilet and have an "angry pee" might be hysterically amusing to a sadist (like me ~evil smirk~) but yeah...even that might grow tiresome after awhile too.
Always "River McIrish" ...and maybe some Bebe Hart. ~innocent expression~
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I dearly loved ts2 in its day and it will always have a special place in my heart, but nothing can compare to ts3 with its open world and cast. The game still manages to wow me - all I need to do is load up a hood and look at some scenery and I am instantly wowed. The fact that I can control multiple sims spread out anywhere in the world is an unbeatable element to the game.
Of course, cast is the other unbeatable element. I have just spent the weekend editing Lots in a few of my worlds and having such extreme fun doing it - for an ocd person like me, putting any texture and colour on whatever I darn well want is my idea of simming heaven
Always "River McIrish" ...and maybe some Bebe Hart. ~innocent expression~
That's what I love about TS3. I like having my sims all available to me and choosing who I currently want to follow with the freedom to jump to the rest the household at any time. There are times when you don't need to watch a sim pounding on an invention at a crafting table, or watching them read a skill book. You can be with another sim doing more important and interesting stuff.
Same here.
This Lion's head came in wood, but I was able to use CASt to copy the wall texture to make it look like it was carved out of the same material.
There are players who try TS3 and keep trying to amuse themselves by playing households of one sim or by sending one sim at a time to Uni, etc. I think that's great if one is just learning their way around the game, but I haven't been able to play that way for a very long time. Feels like some of the things we have our sims do become boring to watch on purpose, by design I mean, such as reading a book, painting, taking a nap, working in a rabbit hole, creating something, etc. That way we can spend that time focusing on other household members who need more interactive attention, possibly in all different places across town. Or, of course, one can always watch the town and maybe snoop on the neighbors during periods of interactive "downtime" instead.
Granted with a household of over 12 sims or so (mods), while I can still manage them okay, for me the game becomes less fun and more like work or trying to spin too many plates in the air at the same time. But in between there is this great sweet spot TS3 offers for simultaneous simulations of very different scenes to keep us engaged and amused throughout most of the sim day.
This is a huge reason, admittedly among others like its design tools, why so many players still find this iteration of the game satisfying, manage to forgive many of the flaws EA left unfixed in the game and/or find ways to improve things with mods, and regardless still just keep playing it.
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Yeah, the sweet spot for me is 3 sims. Two parents & one off-spring. Although the save I'm currently playing has 1 sim parent, a plumbot (with sentient chip) she bought and ended up marrying and a toddler who is about to age up. Also, 2 horses with a foal on the way. The plumbot has level 10 Robotic skill, and built a nanny-bot to take care of the baby. When the toddler becomes a child, they are going to put another sentient chip in Manny and "let" him move out.
Back to topic.
Asides from the irritating over-exaggerated animations of TS4 characters, the cartoonishly drawn Sims themselves, the fact that there are loading screens enough that you can't step outside your home without smacking your face into one, the fact that EA stripped the base game down so much that they didn't even include swimming pools in the base game or missed a lifestage (cough cough toddlers cough) and stuffed anything that they could into "stuff packs" you have to pay for "Ha, you want swimming pools. Pay up. cash cow...", they could have just given us a bare house to walk around and said "Guess what; you have to wait for the next SP to make your house liveable.
Oh wait, that might be the next concept for TS5. Then people can actually play on mobile. ~dripping sarcasm~ Gameplay will consist of SIms walking around in circles in their bare house with thought bubbles going up over their head with "Wouldn't this place be so nice if this was furnished?"
But...you gotta wait for the next STUFF PACK for that...coming out in 2020...
Always "River McIrish" ...and maybe some Bebe Hart. ~innocent expression~
Open World and CAW to create ones own worlds. That's only two of the things that makes TS3 one of the best games out there. It's the open world and the ability to roam around the whole map in a world that makes it so interesting to me. To not be limited by loading screensthe minute you step out your door. My hope is that they bring back open world, the computers nowadays are capable of it.
I'm no computer expert, but I've seen the types of worlds in games like Call of Duty or Skyrim where it loads once and then you're in it for the entirety of the game. The only limitation right now is the fact that you cannot control characters in Skyrim that you bring into a group...they remain NPCs whereas if you have that sort of engine in Sims, you'd have to be able to control them to get the same type of gameplay that you did in TS3.
There's three things that I want to see in TS5
1. A return to open-world play (no loading screens; the ability to go whereever you want to)
2. An update to 64bit OS.
3. An update in graphics more in line with what we've seen...a progression from TS3 graphics to...maybe...
This is a game called "Detroit Become Human" - where humans are trying to track down androids that have taken on the appearances of humans (sort of like Deckard in Blade Runner)
I know people will complain about the "uncanny valley" where Sims look like real humans but this is a "life-simulation" and I personally don't care two hoots about how close they come to realism, just that I feel that TS4 graphics was a step in the wrong direction.
I want to be able to spend my money on a game where I know that I will enjoy and TS4 was NOT that game and I haven't spent my money on that game because I know it doesn't fit the bill in what I'm looking for in a Sims game.
TS3 on the other hand has kept me engrossed for hours on end to the detriment of my computer and its poor CPU. And ever since I started playing TS3 seriously in March 2017, I've bought 5 EPs and am tracking down SPs and considering new worlds and have even managed to start downloading all sorts of mods.
TS4 doesn't even come close to immersing me in the game as much as TS3 has and THAT is why I won't spend ONE red cent on it.
Always "River McIrish" ...and maybe some Bebe Hart. ~innocent expression~
If EA makes a really highly detailed but not hyperrealistic game, I guarantee you that modders can probably bring you those kinds of graphics for Sims, but they should never look that realistic by default IMO.
I give you AN OBNOXIOUS PSYCHOSAUSAGE TESTS THE BOUNDARIES OF THE SIMS 4 EMOTIONS by EmberDahl
http://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/817854/an-obnoxious-psychosausage-tests-the-boundaries-of-the-sims-4-emotions/p1
Always "River McIrish" ...and maybe some Bebe Hart. ~innocent expression~