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Observation of TS4's depth
Louise_G0325
Posts: 1,040 Member
While TS4 is still lacking in a bunch of areas (mostly the sims' individuality with traits/likes etc, reactions and family play with life stage differentiation), I have observed that TS4 does actually offer much more interactions and ways to communicate with other sims than previous games.
In TS3, there were much fewer social interactions. There were some great interactions that we don't have now which would be great to have back, but it was impossible for sims to talk very long without having to repeatedly use the same interactions in a short cycle. Basically, the main interactions were "chat", "get to know" and "tell joke." In TS4, we have interactions like talk about dreams, deep conversation, ask about (sim) etc, and they can discuss various topics, debate stuff, and generally have more trait- and skill-related social interactions. It feels much more immersive and personal to use these sort of detailed interactions than to repeatedly use "chat." I played TS3 a while ago again after TS4 and I felt the absence of good communication options between sims. Most people don't even realize this about TS4 but it's actually really cool.
While there are still many romantic interactions missing (like slow dancing and relaxing on the bed etc.), we have A LOT of romantic interactions as well. In TS3, I usually used a total of about 5, excluding woohoo. TS4 has a lot and even more are unlocked with certain emotions! I love "self-depricating joke" with embarassment and "frenzied kiss" with anger. While TS4 could benefit from some more steamy make-out interactions, they are pretty great.
Ways to communicate has also improved! Sims can be asked out to celebrate, to go on dates, invited to parties, be randomly texted and simply be asked to chill. Sims in TS3 could be asked out and invited to stuff but not as frequently and they couldn't text. These TS4 features make for some really nice stories and I find it cute when sims randomly text my sim. Vampires can also *offer* to turn your sim! That is literally so cool. I just wish that NPC's could also propose and you can choose yes or no.
TS4 does not yet feel as in-deph as previous games, but these points are pretty awesome. It is very focussed on social depth and though we need some depth in other areas, the game is only improving and we will get exactly that over time
What do you guys think?
In TS3, there were much fewer social interactions. There were some great interactions that we don't have now which would be great to have back, but it was impossible for sims to talk very long without having to repeatedly use the same interactions in a short cycle. Basically, the main interactions were "chat", "get to know" and "tell joke." In TS4, we have interactions like talk about dreams, deep conversation, ask about (sim) etc, and they can discuss various topics, debate stuff, and generally have more trait- and skill-related social interactions. It feels much more immersive and personal to use these sort of detailed interactions than to repeatedly use "chat." I played TS3 a while ago again after TS4 and I felt the absence of good communication options between sims. Most people don't even realize this about TS4 but it's actually really cool.
While there are still many romantic interactions missing (like slow dancing and relaxing on the bed etc.), we have A LOT of romantic interactions as well. In TS3, I usually used a total of about 5, excluding woohoo. TS4 has a lot and even more are unlocked with certain emotions! I love "self-depricating joke" with embarassment and "frenzied kiss" with anger. While TS4 could benefit from some more steamy make-out interactions, they are pretty great.
Ways to communicate has also improved! Sims can be asked out to celebrate, to go on dates, invited to parties, be randomly texted and simply be asked to chill. Sims in TS3 could be asked out and invited to stuff but not as frequently and they couldn't text. These TS4 features make for some really nice stories and I find it cute when sims randomly text my sim. Vampires can also *offer* to turn your sim! That is literally so cool. I just wish that NPC's could also propose and you can choose yes or no.
TS4 does not yet feel as in-deph as previous games, but these points are pretty awesome. It is very focussed on social depth and though we need some depth in other areas, the game is only improving and we will get exactly that over time
What do you guys think?
Post edited by Louise_G0325 on
24
Comments
Can we talk about how the sofa make out interaction looks like grandma and grandpa giving each other some light pecks? That's definitely not what my definition of making out is...
improve, for time and how much EA/Maxis will share with us can only tell us. I agree Sims 4 has improved and also at the same time took a hit on building Apts, so many were expecting to build Apts from scratch and also in any neighborhood and that did not happen. As far as that coming at a later time that can't be determined to come at any time it is unless EA/Maxis adds w/o our knowledge or through proper channels.
When I go to work with my Scientist Sim part of her job requirement will be to talk to other Sims. Perhaps 'share an idea'.
Is the 'share an idea' option easily available? Well, no it jolly well isn't.**
It'll be tucked in the Friendly options, about page 6.
Since the menu seems to be quite versatile and the same options don't always show up in the same place, would it be too much to ask for 'share an idea' to scroll up sooner rather than later?
**I'm having to work so hard today to avoid the dreaded 'plum'.
Interesting points.
"Lacking in depth" is a criticism I hear often when it comes to Sims 4, and it constantly confuses me.
Its such a broad term and could mean so many different things to different people (not to mention different aspects of the game) that it's become one of those phrases I don't pay much attention to.
What you describe here is indeed something that rarely gets talked about and more closely aligns with how I would define "depth"
The options wheel was the first thing that jumped out at me when I tried the game for the first time.
And the number of animations is pretty impressive considering that there are often multiple animations for the same action depending on a Sims emotional state.
And yet, like in the OP, there are countless, real examples of what it does have.
Just once, I'd like to see someone say 'this game lacks depth because _____ isn't here' or 'because instead of x, it could be more like y' or 'if they expanded on this aspect already in the game and adapted it to fit this new feature, it'd be better for x, y, and z reasons'.
How exactly is clicking on an object in any prior Sims game and watching an animation play out any more in-depth or different from clicking an object in this game and watching an animation play out? I don't get this either. The OP has shown examples how much more depth in social interactions this game has over others, because of expanded options, varying results, emotional additions, etc.
So where's the reverse of that?
Since the release of Dine Out, I've found the retail store operations in GTW to be lacking a bit in terms of what could be offered. I feel like they should be updated with a similar system to that of Dine Out, making it easier to keep track of employees and skill them up and all that good stuff. I find Dine Out's menus more concise and on point in all that, plus keeping track of the money made and spent. I guess the gurus took what they learned from GTW and applied those lessons to Dine Out, and it shows. And I feel like they should re-apply those lessons back to GTW retail in a patch down the road at some point.
But instead, what I see posted on the forums is "GTW lacks depth and is half baked". And most of the time, that's it.
Well..
Builders in particular tend to be very specific as to what the game is lacking, so I have no troubles understanding their meaning if it's coming from them.
It's when the topic focuses on live mode gameplay that the definition starts to become a lot murkier.
I suspect it's most often used as a substitute for "content"..this is often cofirmed when the author goes on to describe the various things they could do in previous versions that they can't do in this one.
I agree. I find it relatively useless to complain about something if you don't offer a way to fix it. I think the devs would be more able to give us what we want if we described to them exactly why some things aren't great and why others are, so they know what to avoid and what to expand on or follow the example of.
Pirates!! http://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/906481/pirate-gp-smuggling-dueling-live-on-ship-or-build-own-and-more#latest
I have to disagree about social depth. Also sims 3 sims can text, they can send insulting, friendly, break up, picture, admiring and woohoo texts.
Sims 3 sims can receive texts and I like the social system better. I.e you get invited to a party at x time and you have a few hours to decide if you can go. I would also disagree that the sims 3 has fewer social interactions, on pregnancy alone sims 3 sims can talk to the bump, rub it, and listen to it. I think there may be something else, I can't remember. Even the sims 2 has more social interactions with pregnancy. Sims 3 sims can talk about the weather aspects, talk about a bad event like a fire or burglary, enthuse about a new house or wedding or announce promotions. They can brag if they are good at a certain skill or compliment a sim on a specific skill. I've always missed that about the sims 4, why don't they announce their promotion? Why is that missing? Why can't sims talk about a bad event? Why are they limited to just talking about their day or a general compliment? Sims 4 social interactions are not bad but not a patch on the sims 3 and sometimes even the sims 2.
Romance interactions are terrible in the sims 4. Even the sims 1 has better romance and more romance interactions.
I'm playing the challenge in the sims 3 where you add on an expansion for every generation. I was really surprised at how much there was in the sims 3 base game. The Sims 4 has been out for two years. One of its biggest let downs is its lack of depth and all the shiny new content in the world wont fix it.
You are wrong on so many accounts. Plenty of threads and discussions have been made talking about the lack of depth with this game, particularly with emotions and traits and I've seen very good examples and suggestions on fixing that. Just because you missed it or turned a blind eye to it doesn't mean it never happens.
Death? Even when my neighbor's mother died in the hallway of the apartment building, he couldn't be bothered. He just stared at her corpse and then went to work.
I've got an Evil Sim in a household who never does anything remotely evil except get a better mood if she sees one of the others being miserable. In fact, she's very easy to play and gets on with whatever I direct her to do.
I'd get far more out of her if only I didn't opt for a quiet life. I ought to be directing her to be Evil and use all the options available instead of passively waiting for her to be Evil independently.
This must be true for some of the other Traits, too.
One of the funniest things I saw was when my Scientist was at work. She didn't get on too well with one of the guys but was chatting to him one day and they discovered they both had the Bro Trait. He got up from his desk and they hip-bumped. The animation for that is very silly and the fact that they hadn't liked each other before made it more so.
Anyway, perhaps I'll try to lend the Traits a hand in future. See if those Evil Sims really do enjoy having all the enemies they wish for
This!
In my sims 2 game, my sim found out her twin sister had cheated on her with her boyfriend. They don't live in the same house so not only did she slap her sister something awful but her new favourite hobby is kicking the trash can, stealing her newspaper and bad mouthing her to anyone that will listen.
When I rotated back to the parents house, they had already booked a family holiday and invited both twins. It was quite an eventful holiday having the twins there when they kept arguing autonomously and my sim kept attacking her sister. I didn't have control of either so needless to say they didn't have a good holiday.
I miss that kind of depth in 4. Its a sad day when the original game had appropriate reactions to cheating and the fourth version 17 years later doesn't.
Sure, I also see the point that others have made regarding deaths and, to some extent, affairs. It is odd that a relative who wasn't in the room won't cry for a deceased sim. Some others have suggested funerals as a way of addressing that.
Affairs are more complex because not everyone reacts in the same way. I've had some of my TS4 sims become quite reactive and also handle the subject in different ways. I do think there is room for some sort of Dating GP in this game. Sure, we have some stuff now, but wedding attire is notably quite limited. I've seen reference to a swiping date-by-phone or computer option. There's room to develop personalities a bit more in this area as well (reputation, faithfulness and a lack of jealousy as ideas that others have suggested). There's certainly room for more stuff (decor, clothing), more romantic interactions, and even more venues and locales. (Tropical beach resorts, Mediterranean scenery or jacuzzis surrounded by snowflakes at ski resorts, for common examples)
I will say that I do like that TS4 sims don't automatically know about an affair unless they see it. It's a lot more realistic. Some of the reactions in TS2 and TS3 were not so much. I guess my issue was with the scale of their reaction to something that happened in private and that they did not see. It was immersion-breaking to watch them flip out, out of nowhere. No, not all of my sims have affairs, indeed, most of them don't. For the ones that do, TS4 has allowed for some emotional complexity. A marital breakdown can happen. A marriage can grow apart. A spouse can turn a blind eye, eventually realize it and decide what to do. I like that it doesn't automatically mean deep social problems for the children, either. I can decide if and how that happens.
I enjoyed TS2 and TS3, but sometimes the scale of the reactions was over the top for me. I know that there are players who disagree on that and I agree to disagree with them. Yes, I do want a relative to cry or go to a funeral where they can cry, if they weren't in the room during a death though. A few more empathetic interactions along the lines of comforting other sims (which we can already do) would be welcome as well.
I know what you're saying, but I don't tend to play with the premades. I much prefer making my own Sims and tell their story, myself.
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I agree with the overall concept that the system needs some fine tuning.
An Evil or Mean Sim being way too friendly is a prime example that this criticism definitely has merit
I also agree that perhaps tuning down the frequency in which emotions become the primary driver of a Sims behavior could be an easy band aid..as evidenced by the Mod that eliminates environmental buffs which seems to be pretty well recieved.
The problem is
No matter how low emotions are tuned in the eqaution there would be no way around the fact that all Sims would still share the same pool of emotion based animations. A happy/ good Sims is still going to draw from the same pool of animations as the happy/ Evil Sim.
There's simply no practical way arouind this other than scrapping emotions entirely and going back to the way it was done in TS3.
Creating a different subset of animations for every trait whcih is only triggered when they are in a certain emotional state would multiply the number of animations required by a multipilier of 1 for every emotional state x the number of traits we have now...(plus any they might add in the future) plus one for every applicable object or scoial interaction.
That's not happenin'.