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the bowling stuff pack really should have been put in city life expansion

Comments

  • TheGoodOldGamerTheGoodOldGamer Posts: 3,559 Member
    Just look at what they did with basketball in an EP and compare it. It doesn't even have its own skill, let alone an adapted venue concept with it. It may as well be a reskinned piece of gym equipment.

    I doubt you could argue if there were an SP for it that it would be the same as it is now.
    Live, laugh and love. Life's too short not to.
  • kwanzaabotkwanzaabot Posts: 2,440 Member
    Just look at what they did with basketball in an EP and compare it. It doesn't even have its own skill, let alone an adapted venue concept with it. It may as well be a reskinned piece of gym equipment.

    I doubt you could argue if there were an SP for it that it would be the same as it is now.

    Not to mention, basketball in CL doesn't even have any rules.
    It's just a free-for-all dunk-a-thon. Sometimes they even throw the balls at the same time.

    Except for the hoop itself, it bears no resemblance to the game of basketball at all.
    wJbomAo.png
  • DeservedCriticismDeservedCriticism Posts: 2,251 Member
    Uzone27 wrote: »
    I agree to a point that it should have been in City Living but it being in a SP and just focused on bowling we get more details that it might not have had in the EP.

    What details?!!?

    Second time I've asked this as someone casually makes that claim without backing it up. Sims 3 bowling had EVERYTHING this iteration has, the only changes being the bumpers for kids, the different bowling ball styles and now the skill is shown instead of being hidden. Point tally, the animations for success and failure, lit up bowling alleys at night, all of the other stuff...it's all been in bowling before.

    Vampires were indeed more detailed in Sims 4, but bowling...? No, I've yet to see any good argument for why bowling is more detailed. It's still just a means to fill the fun meter where you assign you sim to go bowl and then you watch them roll a ball down a lane for a while with no special involvement or interaction whatsoever.

    @TheGoodOldGamer broke it down in detail on this thread.
    http://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/comment/15639857#Comment_15639857
    It was directed specifically to you.
    For some reason you never addressed it.

    That's not breaking it down, that's presenting the exact same talking points seen here: different animations like the ball being on fire, kids bowling with bumpers, the achievement and the glove.

    Are we seriously arguing that the kids bowling with bumpers, the achievement and the glove warrant moving this feature away from an EP? Somehow I think we would all survive if we got bowling as it is now without the achievement, the ball skins, the bumpers and the glove, nor do I think those things warrant $10 and an entire theme dedicated to it.
    Just look at what they did with basketball in an EP and compare it. It doesn't even have its own skill, let alone an adapted venue concept with it. It may as well be a reskinned piece of gym equipment.

    I doubt you could argue if there were an SP for it that it would be the same as it is now.

    Dude the skill does NOTHING. It's the most barebones skill we've ever gotten. Past games had dozens of hidden skills that were never shown to the player, and why? Because those skills did nothing but increase proficiency/success rate while adding no special benefits. Martial Arts was a skill because it unlocked things like meditation and breaking rocks for gems, chess was a hidden skill because it did nothing but increase your win rate. Inventing was a skill because you got access to bigger and better stuff as it improved, as well as unlocked the ability to blow stuff up, whereas Gnubb was a hidden skill because it only increased your win rate. Gardening was a skill because it unlocked new plant types and new interactive abilities related to gardening such as reviving dead plants, Fire walking was a hidden skill because all it did was govern if your Sim stumbled across in pain like a goof or did it flawlessly like a pro.


    I even looked it up, check this out:
    Bowling
    Sims learn this skill by bowling at a bowling lane. Children and older can learn this skill. This skill goes up to level 5.

    They even tied it into jock influence so that at the very least it was your preferred method of filling fun if your goal was to maintain jock influence.

    Even when it was a hidden skill in 3 it went to level 5! NOTHING'S CHANGED! It's functionally identical, just with some bumpers, different animations, an achievement and a GLOVE!!! Despite this, you guys sit here insisting hot 🐸🐸🐸🐸 that glove sure is worth $10!!! I mean it is a really nice glove, right?!
    "Who are you, that do not know your history?"
  • NeiaNeia Posts: 4,190 Member
    @DeservedCriticism
    What if people like those things being added (gloves, skill, bumpers, new animations, unlocking new ball skins, achievement, etc) ?
  • DeservedCriticismDeservedCriticism Posts: 2,251 Member
    Neia wrote: »
    @DeservedCriticism
    What if people like those things being added (gloves, skill, bumpers, new animations, unlocking new ball skins, achievement, etc) ?

    So you concede that you think the shiny new glove is worth $10? We concede to this argument now?

    The argument remains the same: you guys are settling for less stuff for more money. Even if you like the glove, the new ball skins and the achievements and absolutely want them packaged with bowling, I find it ridiculously difficult to argue that such features are sooooooo time intensive that they would not be able to fit them in an Expansion. Worst case scenario their addition delays the release of City Living by ~a week. Not impossible to include by any definition of the word.

    But no, let's insist we really need to give EA more money for such groundbreaking features like gloves and singular achievements.
    "Who are you, that do not know your history?"
  • Uzone27Uzone27 Posts: 2,808 Member
    Neia wrote: »
    @DeservedCriticism
    What if people like those things being added (gloves, skill, bumpers, new animations, unlocking new ball skins, achievement, etc) ?

    So you concede that you think the shiny new glove is worth $10? We concede to this argument now?

    The argument remains the same: you guys are settling for less stuff for more money. Even if you like the glove, the new ball skins and the achievements and absolutely want them packaged with bowling, I find it ridiculously difficult to argue that such features are sooooooo time intensive that they would not be able to fit them in an Expansion. Worst case scenario their addition delays the release of City Living by ~a week. Not impossible to include by any definition of the word.

    But no, let's insist we really need to give EA more money for such groundbreaking features like gloves and singular achievements.

    The problem with many of your arguments is that they are based on assumptions which you have established in your own mind as fact.
    That kind of tunnel vision is hard (if not impossible) to reason with so I won't even try.
  • MidnightAuraMidnightAura Posts: 5,809 Member
    I agree with the OP.

    I can't see any valid reason why bowling was separated out and given a stuff pack other than for cold hard cash.

    As Deserved Criticism says the bowling skill isn't new, we had it in the sims 3. The sims 2 didn't have a dedicated bowling skill but rather depended on a sims body skill.
    Some parts of the this SP look ok I admit but that still doesn't change the fact that this should have been in CL. It's not like CL was over flowing with things to do in terms of activities. In fact I remember when it was released people commenting on lack of bowling and vampires. But then CL has so much recycled content In it. Look at the festivals. Mostly made up of base game content as opposed to new content.

    When I look at people's posts about this stuff pack it surprises me how many people are saying "I'm buying this because I want more stuff/more activities for my sims to do' and I do understand that view point. I feel like that. There's only so many times your sim families can go out for a meal together or go to the park before it gets boring. Whereas in my sims 3 game the last time I played, my sims family went to the beach in the morning and the mum and dad helped the toddler splash in the water whilst the teenager went wind surfing and her brother went snorkelling, they then went for something to eat and then went to pick pumpkins at the fall festival and after the kids went trick or treating.

    With the sims 4 I really feel the lack of activities is apparent as a family. It has improved but it has a long way to go.

    The argument for stuff packs is it makes the theme/activity more fleshed out but has already been said it's up for debate how more fleshed out this iteration is in comparison to its predecessor. I'm not seeing anything that has wowed me. Being able to choose my own coloured ball? A sim putting on a glove at level 5 and bumpers for kids? Interesting but doesn't have me reaching for my purse. What would have maybe is if toddlers could bowl with the help of an adult, more food options that are realistic of that of a bowling alley, a photo booth, pool table, ice hockey tables or equivilant, even vending machines. One of the things coming is a decorative drink machine? Why not make it functional?

    If you compare the sims 3 store to the current set up, the store is better value. I mean yes it has premium items but I don't feel if you don't get get any that your game is boring or no fun without it. The store content doesn't make or break the game. With the sims 4 stuff packs, they are making the game. It's also a lot more expensive in the long run than the previous games were.

    But sadly there's nothing that will be done. I await no doubt the laundry stuff pack in the future with a washer and a dryer as the items, a laundrette as the venue and for kicks you can choose your own washing powder and wash cycle.
  • Uzone27Uzone27 Posts: 2,808 Member
    I agree with the OP.

    I can't see any valid reason why bowling was separated out and given a stuff pack other than for cold hard cash.

    As Deserved Criticism says the bowling skill isn't new, we had it in the sims 3. The sims 2 didn't have a dedicated bowling skill but rather depended on a sims body skill.
    Some parts of the this SP look ok I admit but that still doesn't change the fact that this should have been in CL. It's not like CL was over flowing with things to do in terms of activities. In fact I remember when it was released people commenting on lack of bowling and vampires. But then CL has so much recycled content In it. Look at the festivals. Mostly made up of base game content as opposed to new content.

    When I look at people's posts about this stuff pack it surprises me how many people are saying "I'm buying this because I want more stuff/more activities for my sims to do' and I do understand that view point. I feel like that. There's only so many times your sim families can go out for a meal together or go to the park before it gets boring. Whereas in my sims 3 game the last time I played, my sims family went to the beach in the morning and the mum and dad helped the toddler splash in the water whilst the teenager went wind surfing and her brother went snorkelling, they then went for something to eat and then went to pick pumpkins at the fall festival and after the kids went trick or treating.

    With the sims 4 I really feel the lack of activities is apparent as a family. It has improved but it has a long way to go.

    The argument for stuff packs is it makes the theme/activity more fleshed out but has already been said it's up for debate how more fleshed out this iteration is in comparison to its predecessor. I'm not seeing anything that has wowed me. Being able to choose my own coloured ball? A sim putting on a glove at level 5 and bumpers for kids? Interesting but doesn't have me reaching for my purse. What would have maybe is if toddlers could bowl with the help of an adult, more food options that are realistic of that of a bowling alley, a photo booth, pool table, ice hockey tables or equivilant, even vending machines. One of the things coming is a decorative drink machine? Why not make it functional?

    If you compare the sims 3 store to the current set up, the store is better value. I mean yes it has premium items but I don't feel if you don't get get any that your game is boring or no fun without it. The store content doesn't make or break the game. With the sims 4 stuff packs, they are making the game. It's also a lot more expensive in the long run than the previous games were.

    But sadly there's nothing that will be done. I await no doubt the laundry stuff pack in the future with a washer and a dryer as the items, a laundrette as the venue and for kicks you can choose your own washing powder and wash cycle.

    Wait the store was a seperate entitity, so as tempting as it is to compare the Store To SP's it's probably more appropriate to compare SP's to well.... SP's. They never went away in TS3 so why are we skipping the obvious comparison in favor of a more abstract one?

    In order to drill down to the heart of this argument we would have to show in some quantifyable way that the consumer is getting the short end of the stick here.

    In order to do that we have to start with the elephant in the room which is the fact that Stuff Packs are now half price
    So even if we throw out the premium item argument..it needs to start there,

    Are the stuff packs we're getting now lesser in quality and quantity than the SP's we've gotton in the past?
    That's the question that needs to be answered first before we can move on to the more abstract (and much more difficult to prove) idea that we're getting less in other types of packs as a result.
    If the answer is yes we would neeed to be able to gauge to what degree?
    If the answer is no...well then we have to account for that $10 before we even begin talking about the alleged "stolen" premium item.
  • MidnightAuraMidnightAura Posts: 5,809 Member
    Uzone27 wrote: »
    I agree with the OP.

    I can't see any valid reason why bowling was separated out and given a stuff pack other than for cold hard cash.

    As Deserved Criticism says the bowling skill isn't new, we had it in the sims 3. The sims 2 didn't have a dedicated bowling skill but rather depended on a sims body skill.
    Some parts of the this SP look ok I admit but that still doesn't change the fact that this should have been in CL. It's not like CL was over flowing with things to do in terms of activities. In fact I remember when it was released people commenting on lack of bowling and vampires. But then CL has so much recycled content In it. Look at the festivals. Mostly made up of base game content as opposed to new content.

    When I look at people's posts about this stuff pack it surprises me how many people are saying "I'm buying this because I want more stuff/more activities for my sims to do' and I do understand that view point. I feel like that. There's only so many times your sim families can go out for a meal together or go to the park before it gets boring. Whereas in my sims 3 game the last time I played, my sims family went to the beach in the morning and the mum and dad helped the toddler splash in the water whilst the teenager went wind surfing and her brother went snorkelling, they then went for something to eat and then went to pick pumpkins at the fall festival and after the kids went trick or treating.

    With the sims 4 I really feel the lack of activities is apparent as a family. It has improved but it has a long way to go.

    The argument for stuff packs is it makes the theme/activity more fleshed out but has already been said it's up for debate how more fleshed out this iteration is in comparison to its predecessor. I'm not seeing anything that has wowed me. Being able to choose my own coloured ball? A sim putting on a glove at level 5 and bumpers for kids? Interesting but doesn't have me reaching for my purse. What would have maybe is if toddlers could bowl with the help of an adult, more food options that are realistic of that of a bowling alley, a photo booth, pool table, ice hockey tables or equivilant, even vending machines. One of the things coming is a decorative drink machine? Why not make it functional?

    If you compare the sims 3 store to the current set up, the store is better value. I mean yes it has premium items but I don't feel if you don't get get any that your game is boring or no fun without it. The store content doesn't make or break the game. With the sims 4 stuff packs, they are making the game. It's also a lot more expensive in the long run than the previous games were.

    But sadly there's nothing that will be done. I await no doubt the laundry stuff pack in the future with a washer and a dryer as the items, a laundrette as the venue and for kicks you can choose your own washing powder and wash cycle.

    Wait the store was a seperate entitity, so as tempting as it is to compare the Store To SP's it's probably more appropriate to compare SP's to well.... SP's. They never went away in TS3 so why are we skipping the obvious comparison in favor of a more abstract one?

    In order to drill down to the heart of this argument we would have to show in some quantifyable way that the consumer is getting the short end of the stick here.

    In order to do that we have to start with the elephant in the room which is the fact that Stuff Packs are now half price
    So even if we throw out the premium item argument..it needs to start there,

    Are the stuff packs we're getting now lesser in quality and quantity than the SP's we've gotton in the past?
    That's the question that needs to be answered first before we can move on to the more abstract (and much more difficult to prove) idea that we're getting less in other types of packs as a result.
    If the answer is yes we would neeed to be able to gauge to what degree?
    If the answer is no...well then we have to account for that $10 before we even begin talking about the alleged "stolen" premium item.

    I haven't compared SP to SP because the sims 3 (and sims 2) stuff packs were just stuff. They didn't come with an item, NPC or object we had had previously had in an expansion pack which the sims 4 is very fond of doing.

    In terms of price? In my country a stuff pack now is £8. A sims 3 stuff pack was either £9.99 or 12.99. I can't remember exactly. I did find my Sims 2 mansion and garden stuff pack which has the price of 9.99 still on it. So there's a difference of £2. Sims 2 stuff packs had 60 bits of "stuff" From memory with the sims 4 stuff packs it doesn't have such a high number but of course it does have a game play object and is a little cheaper. I'm not sure exactly how many items we get in the sims 4 stuff packs.

    Naturally it's subjective if the sims 4 stuff packs are lesser in quality and quantity. Some people prefer the fact stuff packs have game play objects now which is good I agree. I just don't agree that they should be recycling items we have previously had before. For example, the butler and the hot tub. I think splitting those items into several little pieces of a jigsaw is a bit unfair, previously we just bought the full jigsaw and got the same items.
  • Uzone27Uzone27 Posts: 2,808 Member
    Uzone27 wrote: »
    I agree with the OP.

    I can't see any valid reason why bowling was separated out and given a stuff pack other than for cold hard cash.

    As Deserved Criticism says the bowling skill isn't new, we had it in the sims 3. The sims 2 didn't have a dedicated bowling skill but rather depended on a sims body skill.
    Some parts of the this SP look ok I admit but that still doesn't change the fact that this should have been in CL. It's not like CL was over flowing with things to do in terms of activities. In fact I remember when it was released people commenting on lack of bowling and vampires. But then CL has so much recycled content In it. Look at the festivals. Mostly made up of base game content as opposed to new content.

    When I look at people's posts about this stuff pack it surprises me how many people are saying "I'm buying this because I want more stuff/more activities for my sims to do' and I do understand that view point. I feel like that. There's only so many times your sim families can go out for a meal together or go to the park before it gets boring. Whereas in my sims 3 game the last time I played, my sims family went to the beach in the morning and the mum and dad helped the toddler splash in the water whilst the teenager went wind surfing and her brother went snorkelling, they then went for something to eat and then went to pick pumpkins at the fall festival and after the kids went trick or treating.

    With the sims 4 I really feel the lack of activities is apparent as a family. It has improved but it has a long way to go.

    The argument for stuff packs is it makes the theme/activity more fleshed out but has already been said it's up for debate how more fleshed out this iteration is in comparison to its predecessor. I'm not seeing anything that has wowed me. Being able to choose my own coloured ball? A sim putting on a glove at level 5 and bumpers for kids? Interesting but doesn't have me reaching for my purse. What would have maybe is if toddlers could bowl with the help of an adult, more food options that are realistic of that of a bowling alley, a photo booth, pool table, ice hockey tables or equivilant, even vending machines. One of the things coming is a decorative drink machine? Why not make it functional?

    If you compare the sims 3 store to the current set up, the store is better value. I mean yes it has premium items but I don't feel if you don't get get any that your game is boring or no fun without it. The store content doesn't make or break the game. With the sims 4 stuff packs, they are making the game. It's also a lot more expensive in the long run than the previous games were.

    But sadly there's nothing that will be done. I await no doubt the laundry stuff pack in the future with a washer and a dryer as the items, a laundrette as the venue and for kicks you can choose your own washing powder and wash cycle.

    Wait the store was a seperate entitity, so as tempting as it is to compare the Store To SP's it's probably more appropriate to compare SP's to well.... SP's. They never went away in TS3 so why are we skipping the obvious comparison in favor of a more abstract one?

    In order to drill down to the heart of this argument we would have to show in some quantifyable way that the consumer is getting the short end of the stick here.

    In order to do that we have to start with the elephant in the room which is the fact that Stuff Packs are now half price
    So even if we throw out the premium item argument..it needs to start there,

    Are the stuff packs we're getting now lesser in quality and quantity than the SP's we've gotton in the past?
    That's the question that needs to be answered first before we can move on to the more abstract (and much more difficult to prove) idea that we're getting less in other types of packs as a result.
    If the answer is yes we would neeed to be able to gauge to what degree?
    If the answer is no...well then we have to account for that $10 before we even begin talking about the alleged "stolen" premium item.

    I haven't compared SP to SP because the sims 3 (and sims 2) stuff packs were just stuff. They didn't come with an item, NPC or object we had had previously had in an expansion pack which the sims 4 is very fond of doing.

    In terms of price? In my country a stuff pack now is £8. A sims 3 stuff pack was either £9.99 or 12.99. I can't remember exactly. I did find my Sims 2 mansion and garden stuff pack which has the price of 9.99 still on it. So there's a difference of £2. Sims 2 stuff packs had 60 bits of "stuff" From memory with the sims 4 stuff packs it doesn't have such a high number but of course it does have a game play object and is a little cheaper. I'm not sure exactly how many items we get in the sims 4 stuff packs.

    Naturally it's subjective if the sims 4 stuff packs are lesser in quality and quantity. Some people prefer the fact stuff packs have game play objects now which is good I agree. I just don't agree that they should be recycling items we have previously had before. For example, the butler and the hot tub. I think splitting those items into several little pieces of a jigsaw is a bit unfair, previously we just bought the full jigsaw and got the same items.

    So if they had swapped the talking toilet for bowling it would have been all good?
    See the problem here? it's all coming from the same asset pool.
    How they package and deliver those assets is up to their discretion.

    If you really loved bowling in the past it would have cost you $40 to get it.
    Now you can pick it up for $10.
    Just because it's bundled differently than it has been in the past doesn't neccesarily mean we're getting ripped off.
  • MidnightAuraMidnightAura Posts: 5,809 Member
    I think leaving the talking toilet out would have been a good idea anyhow. If bowling had been included rather than say basket ball I would have been happy as I was very disappointed with the sims 4 basketball.

    Ok if you wanted bowling it would have cost you x amount depending on your country, for me it was either 29.99 or 19.99 but you weren't getting just bowling. You were getting a whole load of other stuff with it. In the case of the sims 3 I didn't realise it had bowling initially. I didn't feel I missed it. I hadn't noticed it was there. I was too busy playing with the new expansion and incorporating that into my game and mixing it with my other EPs and SPs. I can safely say with all my purchases with the sims 1-3 I never bought say an expansion or stuff pack (with TS2 and 3) for x item or because I felt the game was lacking. I see those kind of thoughts all the time displayed about the sims 4.
  • GruffmanGruffman Posts: 4,831 Member
    Are we seriously arguing that the kids bowling with bumpers, the achievement and the glove warrant moving this feature away from an EP? Somehow I think we would all survive if we got bowling as it is now without the achievement, the ball skins, the bumpers and the glove, nor do I think those things warrant $10 and an entire theme dedicated to it.

    I do not plan to buy this stuff pack because we can bowl in it. I am buying a stuff pack because I like to look of the bowling themed stuff with it. I like the new chairs, couch, lighting, wall decor, rugs, floors. I like the looks of most of the clothes, the two female hair styles. I am buying a stuff pack for the stuff. The actual bowling for it is just extra.

    As stuff pack. It isn't supposed to be grand, game changing by design. i don't care about achievements or a hidden bowling skill. It is stuff. I am buying it for stuff, not because my sims can bowl.

    My sims can play basketball from CL. It is so watered down and so much an afterthought, it might as well as been left out. There isn't even a basketball we can place in our sims bedroom, a sim doesn't need a basketball in their inventory to shoot hoops. There are no special outfits, no gloves, no decor basketball objects, net variance, height difference. It could have been so much more, but it wasn't.

    It's not just about the bowling, it is about the other stuff in the pack that people want.





  • DeservedCriticismDeservedCriticism Posts: 2,251 Member
    edited March 2017
    Uzone27 wrote: »
    Neia wrote: »
    @DeservedCriticism
    What if people like those things being added (gloves, skill, bumpers, new animations, unlocking new ball skins, achievement, etc) ?

    So you concede that you think the shiny new glove is worth $10? We concede to this argument now?

    The argument remains the same: you guys are settling for less stuff for more money. Even if you like the glove, the new ball skins and the achievements and absolutely want them packaged with bowling, I find it ridiculously difficult to argue that such features are sooooooo time intensive that they would not be able to fit them in an Expansion. Worst case scenario their addition delays the release of City Living by ~a week. Not impossible to include by any definition of the word.

    But no, let's insist we really need to give EA more money for such groundbreaking features like gloves and singular achievements.

    The problem with many of your arguments is that they are based on assumptions which you have established in your own mind as fact.
    That kind of tunnel vision is hard (if not impossible) to reason with so I won't even try.

    So what am I missing here? Where am I tunnel-visioning? It's true that when you compare this iteration of bowling to Sims 3's, Sims 3's only lacked:

    -Different bowling balls
    -Bumpers for kids
    -The achievement
    -This super awesome amazing glove everyone talks about

    The argument was that because this iteration of bowling is much much improved, it couldn't possibly fit in an expansion, or that putting it in a stuff pack allowed them to flesh it out much more than usual. Given the list shown, I don't see how that's true at all.
    "Who are you, that do not know your history?"
  • Uzone27Uzone27 Posts: 2,808 Member
    edited March 2017
    Uzone27 wrote: »
    Neia wrote: »
    @DeservedCriticism
    What if people like those things being added (gloves, skill, bumpers, new animations, unlocking new ball skins, achievement, etc) ?

    So you concede that you think the shiny new glove is worth $10? We concede to this argument now?

    The argument remains the same: you guys are settling for less stuff for more money. Even if you like the glove, the new ball skins and the achievements and absolutely want them packaged with bowling, I find it ridiculously difficult to argue that such features are sooooooo time intensive that they would not be able to fit them in an Expansion. Worst case scenario their addition delays the release of City Living by ~a week. Not impossible to include by any definition of the word.

    But no, let's insist we really need to give EA more money for such groundbreaking features like gloves and singular achievements.

    The problem with many of your arguments is that they are based on assumptions which you have established in your own mind as fact.
    That kind of tunnel vision is hard (if not impossible) to reason with so I won't even try.

    So what am I missing here? Where am I tunnel-visioning? It's true that when you compare this iteration of bowling to Sims 3's, Sims 3's only lacked:

    -Different bowling balls
    -Bumpers for kids
    -The achievement
    -This super awesome amazing glove everyone talks about

    The argument was that because this iteration of bowling is much much improved, it couldn't possibly fit in an expansion, or that putting it in a stuff pack allowed them to flesh it out much more than usual. Given the list shown, I don't see how that's true at all.

    I didn't realize that was the argument. That's silly of course they could have put bowling in an expansion pack. B)
  • MissCherieMissCherie Posts: 408 Member
    edited March 2017
    Why people assume that if it had been included in City Living it would have been less than what it is now?

    I'm sorry, but when people think stuff packs are more complete than expansion packs there's a problem, it's not normal that people think stuff packs are better than expansion packs, it's not normal that people think the stuff in the expansion packs are not flesh out, but the stuff packs are...

    Why people compare the bowling to the basket ball? Why pick the worse? Why not singing/karaoke? Do people feel like singing/karaoke was incomplete?

    I feel like people will defend EA no matter what, if someone dare say City Living feel empty and incomplete people defend it saying it's amazing, but if we say that bowling should have been in City Living, oh God no, it would have been a waste cause activities in expansion packs are not flesh out.
    Post edited by MissCherie on
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  • TheGoodOldGamerTheGoodOldGamer Posts: 3,559 Member
    Uzone27 wrote: »
    I agree to a point that it should have been in City Living but it being in a SP and just focused on bowling we get more details that it might not have had in the EP.

    What details?!!?

    Second time I've asked this as someone casually makes that claim without backing it up. Sims 3 bowling had EVERYTHING this iteration has, the only changes being the bumpers for kids, the different bowling ball styles and now the skill is shown instead of being hidden. Point tally, the animations for success and failure, lit up bowling alleys at night, all of the other stuff...it's all been in bowling before.

    Vampires were indeed more detailed in Sims 4, but bowling...? No, I've yet to see any good argument for why bowling is more detailed. It's still just a means to fill the fun meter where you assign you sim to go bowl and then you watch them roll a ball down a lane for a while with no special involvement or interaction whatsoever.

    @TheGoodOldGamer broke it down in detail on this thread.
    http://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/comment/15639857#Comment_15639857
    It was directed specifically to you.
    For some reason you never addressed it.

    That's not breaking it down, that's presenting the exact same talking points seen here: different animations like the ball being on fire, kids bowling with bumpers, the achievement and the glove.

    Are we seriously arguing that the kids bowling with bumpers, the achievement and the glove warrant moving this feature away from an EP? Somehow I think we would all survive if we got bowling as it is now without the achievement, the ball skins, the bumpers and the glove, nor do I think those things warrant $10 and an entire theme dedicated to it.
    Just look at what they did with basketball in an EP and compare it. It doesn't even have its own skill, let alone an adapted venue concept with it. It may as well be a reskinned piece of gym equipment.

    I doubt you could argue if there were an SP for it that it would be the same as it is now.

    Dude the skill does NOTHING. It's the most barebones skill we've ever gotten. Past games had dozens of hidden skills that were never shown to the player, and why? Because those skills did nothing but increase proficiency/success rate while adding no special benefits. Martial Arts was a skill because it unlocked things like meditation and breaking rocks for gems, chess was a hidden skill because it did nothing but increase your win rate. Inventing was a skill because you got access to bigger and better stuff as it improved, as well as unlocked the ability to blow stuff up, whereas Gnubb was a hidden skill because it only increased your win rate. Gardening was a skill because it unlocked new plant types and new interactive abilities related to gardening such as reviving dead plants, Fire walking was a hidden skill because all it did was govern if your Sim stumbled across in pain like a goof or did it flawlessly like a pro.


    I even looked it up, check this out:
    Bowling
    Sims learn this skill by bowling at a bowling lane. Children and older can learn this skill. This skill goes up to level 5.

    They even tied it into jock influence so that at the very least it was your preferred method of filling fun if your goal was to maintain jock influence.

    Even when it was a hidden skill in 3 it went to level 5! NOTHING'S CHANGED! It's functionally identical, just with some bumpers, different animations, an achievement and a GLOVE!!! Despite this, you guys sit here insisting hot plum that glove sure is worth $10!!! I mean it is a really nice glove, right?!

    Are we seriously arguing that the kids bowling with bumpers, the achievement and the glove warrant moving this feature away from an EP? Somehow I think we would all survive if we got bowling as it is now without the achievement, the ball skins, the bumpers and the glove, nor do I think those things warrant $10 and an entire theme dedicated to it.

    There's also furniture, lights, wall/floor coverings, the adaption of the venues themselves...
    Live, laugh and love. Life's too short not to.
  • CinebarCinebar Posts: 33,618 Member
    EP, GP or SP..it was on my wish list so Yay! :D
    "Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
  • PegasysPegasys Posts: 1,135 Member
    edited March 2017
    Uzone27 wrote: »
    I agree to a point that it should have been in City Living but it being in a SP and just focused on bowling we get more details that it might not have had in the EP.

    What details?!!?

    Second time I've asked this as someone casually makes that claim without backing it up. Sims 3 bowling had EVERYTHING this iteration has, the only changes being the bumpers for kids, the different bowling ball styles and now the skill is shown instead of being hidden. Point tally, the animations for success and failure, lit up bowling alleys at night, all of the other stuff...it's all been in bowling before.

    Vampires were indeed more detailed in Sims 4, but bowling...? No, I've yet to see any good argument for why bowling is more detailed. It's still just a means to fill the fun meter where you assign you sim to go bowl and then you watch them roll a ball down a lane for a while with no special involvement or interaction whatsoever.

    @TheGoodOldGamer broke it down in detail on this thread.
    http://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/comment/15639857#Comment_15639857
    It was directed specifically to you.
    For some reason you never addressed it.

    That's not breaking it down, that's presenting the exact same talking points seen here: different animations like the ball being on fire, kids bowling with bumpers, the achievement and the glove.

    Are we seriously arguing that the kids bowling with bumpers, the achievement and the glove warrant moving this feature away from an EP? Somehow I think we would all survive if we got bowling as it is now without the achievement, the ball skins, the bumpers and the glove, nor do I think those things warrant $10 and an entire theme dedicated to it.
    Just look at what they did with basketball in an EP and compare it. It doesn't even have its own skill, let alone an adapted venue concept with it. It may as well be a reskinned piece of gym equipment.

    I doubt you could argue if there were an SP for it that it would be the same as it is now.

    Dude the skill does NOTHING. It's the most barebones skill we've ever gotten. Past games had dozens of hidden skills that were never shown to the player, and why? Because those skills did nothing but increase proficiency/success rate while adding no special benefits. Martial Arts was a skill because it unlocked things like meditation and breaking rocks for gems, chess was a hidden skill because it did nothing but increase your win rate. Inventing was a skill because you got access to bigger and better stuff as it improved, as well as unlocked the ability to blow stuff up, whereas Gnubb was a hidden skill because it only increased your win rate. Gardening was a skill because it unlocked new plant types and new interactive abilities related to gardening such as reviving dead plants, Fire walking was a hidden skill because all it did was govern if your Sim stumbled across in pain like a goof or did it flawlessly like a pro.


    I even looked it up, check this out:
    Bowling
    Sims learn this skill by bowling at a bowling lane. Children and older can learn this skill. This skill goes up to level 5.

    They even tied it into jock influence so that at the very least it was your preferred method of filling fun if your goal was to maintain jock influence.

    Even when it was a hidden skill in 3 it went to level 5! NOTHING'S CHANGED! It's functionally identical, just with some bumpers, different animations, an achievement and a GLOVE!!! Despite this, you guys sit here insisting hot plum that glove sure is worth $10!!! I mean it is a really nice glove, right?!

    Are we seriously arguing that the kids bowling with bumpers, the achievement and the glove warrant moving this feature away from an EP? Somehow I think we would all survive if we got bowling as it is now without the achievement, the ball skins, the bumpers and the glove, nor do I think those things warrant $10 and an entire theme dedicated to it.

    There's also furniture, lights, wall/floor coverings, the adaption of the venues themselves...

    Not to mention, probably more detailed animations while bowling. I haven't watched the livestream because I don't want to spoil the game for myself; I like to discover these things in my game. But based on what I saw in the trailer(s), it looks pretty good.

    Edited to add: I honestly don't care whether the content comes in a stuff pack, game pack, expansion pack, PLUM pack. If I like it I will buy it. Price isn't a big issue for me. I played Second Life for several years -- you want to talk about paying for content? What about $300/month for a virtual island? Now that is wild. But thousands of people do it.
  • stilljustme2stilljustme2 Posts: 25,082 Member
    Dannydanbo wrote: »
    I've never heard of a bowling alley in a downtown part of any city, they're always on the outskirts. So, I disagree completely. Besides, they said from the start of S4 that they were going to do things differently than with other versions. As far as a "cash grab" goes, if you don't want to pay for it, then don't buy it. That's the point of having stuff packs. You can pick and choose what you want, but I think you sound like one of those people that would want as much as possible shoved into big EPs to get a lot of content for the money, even if that content is plum. Happy simming.

    Lucky Strikes Bowling in San Francisco is pretty much in the city center -- it's in the South Beach/Mission Bay area of the city which is just a short bus or light rail ride from Market Street (faster than driving/parking). Pretty popular with the south of Market techie and hipster crowd.

    I prefer having it in a separate pack because we're getting more of a detailed experience, rather than having it shoved in as an afterthought. The only thing missing is that Sims can't try and pick up a spare, but that might have been more of an animation issue than could be handled in an SP.
    Check out my Gallery! Origin ID: justme22
    Fun must be always -- Tomas Hertl (San Jose Sharks hockey player)
  • stilljustme2stilljustme2 Posts: 25,082 Member
    Uzone27 wrote: »
    I agree to a point that it should have been in City Living but it being in a SP and just focused on bowling we get more details that it might not have had in the EP.

    What details?!!?

    Second time I've asked this as someone casually makes that claim without backing it up. Sims 3 bowling had EVERYTHING this iteration has, the only changes being the bumpers for kids, the different bowling ball styles and now the skill is shown instead of being hidden. Point tally, the animations for success and failure, lit up bowling alleys at night, all of the other stuff...it's all been in bowling before.

    Vampires were indeed more detailed in Sims 4, but bowling...? No, I've yet to see any good argument for why bowling is more detailed. It's still just a means to fill the fun meter where you assign you sim to go bowl and then you watch them roll a ball down a lane for a while with no special involvement or interaction whatsoever.

    @TheGoodOldGamer broke it down in detail on this thread.
    http://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/comment/15639857#Comment_15639857
    It was directed specifically to you.
    For some reason you never addressed it.

    That's not breaking it down, that's presenting the exact same talking points seen here: different animations like the ball being on fire, kids bowling with bumpers, the achievement and the glove.

    Are we seriously arguing that the kids bowling with bumpers, the achievement and the glove warrant moving this feature away from an EP? Somehow I think we would all survive if we got bowling as it is now without the achievement, the ball skins, the bumpers and the glove, nor do I think those things warrant $10 and an entire theme dedicated to it.
    Just look at what they did with basketball in an EP and compare it. It doesn't even have its own skill, let alone an adapted venue concept with it. It may as well be a reskinned piece of gym equipment.

    I doubt you could argue if there were an SP for it that it would be the same as it is now.

    Dude the skill does NOTHING. It's the most barebones skill we've ever gotten. Past games had dozens of hidden skills that were never shown to the player, and why? Because those skills did nothing but increase proficiency/success rate while adding no special benefits. Martial Arts was a skill because it unlocked things like meditation and breaking rocks for gems, chess was a hidden skill because it did nothing but increase your win rate. Inventing was a skill because you got access to bigger and better stuff as it improved, as well as unlocked the ability to blow stuff up, whereas Gnubb was a hidden skill because it only increased your win rate. Gardening was a skill because it unlocked new plant types and new interactive abilities related to gardening such as reviving dead plants, Fire walking was a hidden skill because all it did was govern if your Sim stumbled across in pain like a goof or did it flawlessly like a pro.


    I even looked it up, check this out:
    Bowling
    Sims learn this skill by bowling at a bowling lane. Children and older can learn this skill. This skill goes up to level 5.

    They even tied it into jock influence so that at the very least it was your preferred method of filling fun if your goal was to maintain jock influence.

    Even when it was a hidden skill in 3 it went to level 5! NOTHING'S CHANGED! It's functionally identical, just with some bumpers, different animations, an achievement and a GLOVE!!! Despite this, you guys sit here insisting hot plum that glove sure is worth $10!!! I mean it is a really nice glove, right?!

    Are we seriously arguing that the kids bowling with bumpers, the achievement and the glove warrant moving this feature away from an EP? Somehow I think we would all survive if we got bowling as it is now without the achievement, the ball skins, the bumpers and the glove, nor do I think those things warrant $10 and an entire theme dedicated to it.

    There's also furniture, lights, wall/floor coverings, the adaption of the venues themselves...

    What if we'd got bowling in CL, but they made it so kids couldn't do it? Or if kids got a constant Sad moodlet because all their balls went into the gutters (with no bumpers)?

    Players complain that "there's nothing for Sims to do but party" -- then when the developers give players something for their Sims to do that doesn't involve partying, others complain that "it should have been in an EP" that maybe not everyone was interested in purchasing. I guess there are those who won't be satisfied until the next iteration of Sims releases...then when the same pattern of EPs, GPs and SPs are released they can have the same complaints. :|
    Check out my Gallery! Origin ID: justme22
    Fun must be always -- Tomas Hertl (San Jose Sharks hockey player)
  • MidnightAuraMidnightAura Posts: 5,809 Member
    Uzone27 wrote: »
    I agree to a point that it should have been in City Living but it being in a SP and just focused on bowling we get more details that it might not have had in the EP.

    What details?!!?

    Second time I've asked this as someone casually makes that claim without backing it up. Sims 3 bowling had EVERYTHING this iteration has, the only changes being the bumpers for kids, the different bowling ball styles and now the skill is shown instead of being hidden. Point tally, the animations for success and failure, lit up bowling alleys at night, all of the other stuff...it's all been in bowling before.

    Vampires were indeed more detailed in Sims 4, but bowling...? No, I've yet to see any good argument for why bowling is more detailed. It's still just a means to fill the fun meter where you assign you sim to go bowl and then you watch them roll a ball down a lane for a while with no special involvement or interaction whatsoever.

    @TheGoodOldGamer broke it down in detail on this thread.
    http://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/comment/15639857#Comment_15639857
    It was directed specifically to you.
    For some reason you never addressed it.

    That's not breaking it down, that's presenting the exact same talking points seen here: different animations like the ball being on fire, kids bowling with bumpers, the achievement and the glove.

    Are we seriously arguing that the kids bowling with bumpers, the achievement and the glove warrant moving this feature away from an EP? Somehow I think we would all survive if we got bowling as it is now without the achievement, the ball skins, the bumpers and the glove, nor do I think those things warrant $10 and an entire theme dedicated to it.
    Just look at what they did with basketball in an EP and compare it. It doesn't even have its own skill, let alone an adapted venue concept with it. It may as well be a reskinned piece of gym equipment.

    I doubt you could argue if there were an SP for it that it would be the same as it is now.

    Dude the skill does NOTHING. It's the most barebones skill we've ever gotten. Past games had dozens of hidden skills that were never shown to the player, and why? Because those skills did nothing but increase proficiency/success rate while adding no special benefits. Martial Arts was a skill because it unlocked things like meditation and breaking rocks for gems, chess was a hidden skill because it did nothing but increase your win rate. Inventing was a skill because you got access to bigger and better stuff as it improved, as well as unlocked the ability to blow stuff up, whereas Gnubb was a hidden skill because it only increased your win rate. Gardening was a skill because it unlocked new plant types and new interactive abilities related to gardening such as reviving dead plants, Fire walking was a hidden skill because all it did was govern if your Sim stumbled across in pain like a goof or did it flawlessly like a pro.


    I even looked it up, check this out:
    Bowling
    Sims learn this skill by bowling at a bowling lane. Children and older can learn this skill. This skill goes up to level 5.

    They even tied it into jock influence so that at the very least it was your preferred method of filling fun if your goal was to maintain jock influence.

    Even when it was a hidden skill in 3 it went to level 5! NOTHING'S CHANGED! It's functionally identical, just with some bumpers, different animations, an achievement and a GLOVE!!! Despite this, you guys sit here insisting hot plum that glove sure is worth $10!!! I mean it is a really nice glove, right?!

    Are we seriously arguing that the kids bowling with bumpers, the achievement and the glove warrant moving this feature away from an EP? Somehow I think we would all survive if we got bowling as it is now without the achievement, the ball skins, the bumpers and the glove, nor do I think those things warrant $10 and an entire theme dedicated to it.

    There's also furniture, lights, wall/floor coverings, the adaption of the venues themselves...

    What if we'd got bowling in CL, but they made it so kids couldn't do it? Or if kids got a constant Sad moodlet because all their balls went into the gutters (with no bumpers)?

    Players complain that "there's nothing for Sims to do but party" -- then when the developers give players something for their Sims to do that doesn't involve partying, others complain that "it should have been in an EP" that maybe not everyone was interested in purchasing. I guess there are those who won't be satisfied until the next iteration of Sims releases...then when the same pattern of EPs, GPs and SPs are released they can have the same complaints. :|

    I would have liked the no bumper thing, it would make a change from them being happy, plus with the skill it would have been nice to see. It would have been surprising and a little bit lazy if kids couldn't take part just because it was in an EP. Kids could bowl in previous versions.

    I agree the party argument is strong but I think the argument that certain things should have been part of an expansion is equally valid in some cases. This first iteration I've noticed people complaining there is a lack of things to do, I don't doubt stuff packs are the response. If the expansions were filled with brilliant game play with new things to do, we wouldn't be depending on the stuff packs as much to fill the game out. I don't agree with splitting expansion content into bite size pieces. This is the first we have really had this.
  • LadyJesterLadyJester Posts: 606 Member
    edited March 2017
    The gurus that worked on the stuff pack talked about how the people that worked on EP had no plans to put bowling into any of their packs so the stuff pack team decided to make it into a stuff pack.

















    Here is the tweets from Graham talking about it.

    @DeservedCriticism I am sorry you feel like you're not getting your moneys worth but if other people feel like they are then whats the problem? You shouldn't worry about other people just worry about yourself. Theres a diffrance between saying "I feeling like I am not getting my moneys worth with the stuff pack." and "Why are people buy these packs? They aren't worth the money."
  • TheLibrarySimTheLibrarySim Posts: 966 Member
    Just watched the Livestream and I'm glad they took the time to make this a separate pack. While I haven't bought all the Stuff Packs, this one definitely fills a niche for my gameplay. Can't wait for Wednesday!
    7mQr8Yt.jpg
  • pepperjax1230pepperjax1230 Posts: 7,953 Member
    edited March 2017
    I agree to a point that it should have been in City Living but it being in a SP and just focused on bowling we get more details that it might not have had in the EP.

    What details?!!?

    Second time I've asked this as someone casually makes that claim without backing it up. Sims 3 bowling had EVERYTHING this iteration has, the only changes being the bumpers for kids, the different bowling ball styles and now the skill is shown instead of being hidden. Point tally, the animations for success and failure, lit up bowling alleys at night, all of the other stuff...it's all been in bowling before.

    Vampires were indeed more detailed in Sims 4, but bowling...? No, I've yet to see any good argument for why bowling is more detailed. It's still just a means to fill the fun meter where you assign you sim to go bowl and then you watch them roll a ball down a lane for a while with no special involvement or interaction whatsoever.
    Details like the style of the SP the furniture the details to the animations on the bowling lanes the fact you can actually build your own bowling alley with the stuff they have in the SP need I go on?. I want the SP so I think its worth the 10 dollars it has more in it then if they were to add it in an EP.

    tenor.gif?itemid=5228641
  • stilljustme2stilljustme2 Posts: 25,082 Member
    edited March 2017
    Uzone27 wrote: »
    I agree to a point that it should have been in City Living but it being in a SP and just focused on bowling we get more details that it might not have had in the EP.

    What details?!!?

    Second time I've asked this as someone casually makes that claim without backing it up. Sims 3 bowling had EVERYTHING this iteration has, the only changes being the bumpers for kids, the different bowling ball styles and now the skill is shown instead of being hidden. Point tally, the animations for success and failure, lit up bowling alleys at night, all of the other stuff...it's all been in bowling before.

    Vampires were indeed more detailed in Sims 4, but bowling...? No, I've yet to see any good argument for why bowling is more detailed. It's still just a means to fill the fun meter where you assign you sim to go bowl and then you watch them roll a ball down a lane for a while with no special involvement or interaction whatsoever.

    @TheGoodOldGamer broke it down in detail on this thread.
    http://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/comment/15639857#Comment_15639857
    It was directed specifically to you.
    For some reason you never addressed it.

    That's not breaking it down, that's presenting the exact same talking points seen here: different animations like the ball being on fire, kids bowling with bumpers, the achievement and the glove.

    Are we seriously arguing that the kids bowling with bumpers, the achievement and the glove warrant moving this feature away from an EP? Somehow I think we would all survive if we got bowling as it is now without the achievement, the ball skins, the bumpers and the glove, nor do I think those things warrant $10 and an entire theme dedicated to it.
    Just look at what they did with basketball in an EP and compare it. It doesn't even have its own skill, let alone an adapted venue concept with it. It may as well be a reskinned piece of gym equipment.

    I doubt you could argue if there were an SP for it that it would be the same as it is now.

    Dude the skill does NOTHING. It's the most barebones skill we've ever gotten. Past games had dozens of hidden skills that were never shown to the player, and why? Because those skills did nothing but increase proficiency/success rate while adding no special benefits. Martial Arts was a skill because it unlocked things like meditation and breaking rocks for gems, chess was a hidden skill because it did nothing but increase your win rate. Inventing was a skill because you got access to bigger and better stuff as it improved, as well as unlocked the ability to blow stuff up, whereas Gnubb was a hidden skill because it only increased your win rate. Gardening was a skill because it unlocked new plant types and new interactive abilities related to gardening such as reviving dead plants, Fire walking was a hidden skill because all it did was govern if your Sim stumbled across in pain like a goof or did it flawlessly like a pro.


    I even looked it up, check this out:
    Bowling
    Sims learn this skill by bowling at a bowling lane. Children and older can learn this skill. This skill goes up to level 5.

    They even tied it into jock influence so that at the very least it was your preferred method of filling fun if your goal was to maintain jock influence.

    Even when it was a hidden skill in 3 it went to level 5! NOTHING'S CHANGED! It's functionally identical, just with some bumpers, different animations, an achievement and a GLOVE!!! Despite this, you guys sit here insisting hot plum that glove sure is worth $10!!! I mean it is a really nice glove, right?!

    Are we seriously arguing that the kids bowling with bumpers, the achievement and the glove warrant moving this feature away from an EP? Somehow I think we would all survive if we got bowling as it is now without the achievement, the ball skins, the bumpers and the glove, nor do I think those things warrant $10 and an entire theme dedicated to it.

    There's also furniture, lights, wall/floor coverings, the adaption of the venues themselves...

    What if we'd got bowling in CL, but they made it so kids couldn't do it? Or if kids got a constant Sad moodlet because all their balls went into the gutters (with no bumpers)?

    Players complain that "there's nothing for Sims to do but party" -- then when the developers give players something for their Sims to do that doesn't involve partying, others complain that "it should have been in an EP" that maybe not everyone was interested in purchasing. I guess there are those who won't be satisfied until the next iteration of Sims releases...then when the same pattern of EPs, GPs and SPs are released they can have the same complaints. :|

    I would have liked the no bumper thing, it would make a change from them being happy, plus with the skill it would have been nice to see. It would have been surprising and a little bit lazy if kids couldn't take part just because it was in an EP. Kids could bowl in previous versions.

    I agree the party argument is strong but I think the argument that certain things should have been part of an expansion is equally valid in some cases. This first iteration I've noticed people complaining there is a lack of things to do, I don't doubt stuff packs are the response. If the expansions were filled with brilliant game play with new things to do, we wouldn't be depending on the stuff packs as much to fill the game out. I don't agree with splitting expansion content into bite size pieces. This is the first we have really had this.

    Well, let's not forget that in Sims 3 kids couldn't play instruments, when they could play piano in Sims 2. So was that "lazy" on the part of Sims 3? (Some might say yes.) Bumper bowling is a major feature at most bowling alleys I've been to -- it's a way to introduce children to the sport and help them learn and grow into it without getting frustrated and quitting. I like that they added that feature into Sims 4's version of bowling.

    Technically it's not the first EP content to be broken out into an SP -- IIRC, water slides came with Generations in Sims 3. Maybe this is the first time an SP has been totally centered around a feature that was formerly in EPs, but if it means we get something unique in its place in a future EP, I've got no problem with it.

    EDIT TO ADD: And after reading the series of Tweets from @SimGuruGraham, maybe it makes more sense -- the EP team didn't see a real spot for bowling in City Living, which makes sense because bowling alleys are located in more than just cities. And they weren't planning on including bowling in any of the EPs in the near future. So the question is, should we have an SP for bowling or not have bowling at all? If you want bowling, then it's the perfect theme for the SP team, along with bringing in some Mid-Century Modern inspired furniture (I know they said there's no plans for additional Mid-Century content, I would love to see some coordinating bedroom content such as beds and dressers) that folks might be able to use in their home builds.
    Check out my Gallery! Origin ID: justme22
    Fun must be always -- Tomas Hertl (San Jose Sharks hockey player)
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