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The Sims is an RPG
Uzone27
Posts: 2,808 Member
The Sims is a game that wears many hats and can be refered to using many monikers.
god game, sandbox game, life Simulator, architectural/fashion design game being amongst the more popular terms used to describe it.
One of the things I keep hearing Simmers saying it's not...is a role playing game.
I beg to differ.
If we break down the game into it's core components we come to understand why one SImmer might refer to the game differently than the next.
This is because the main features of the game are compartmentalized to the extent that they can be completely ignored if a player so chooses.
The big three being CAS, Buy/ Build & Live mode.
Each of these can be engaged seperately and very nearly exclusively depending on the Simmer, making it a different game to each individual depending on how they approach it.
Live mode can then be subdivided into (basically) two types of gameplay.
For lack of better terms I'll just call them freeform and traditional.
In freeform mode the player does whatever they wish. Cheating is allowed, encouraged and even neccessary for some types of gameplay such as movie making.
In traditional mode the player never cheats and plays the game by the pre-established rules set by the developers.
They have a goal oriented play style and use the various assets in the game as a means to achieving those goals.
For these type players The Sims fits the definition of an RPG to a "T".
From Wikipedia
A role-playing game (RPG and sometimes roleplaying game[1][2]) is a game in which players assume the roles ofcharacters in a fictional setting. Players take responsibility for acting out these roles within a narrative, either through literal acting or through a process of structured decision-making or character development.[3] Actions taken within many games succeed or fail according to a formal system of rules and guidelines.[4]
To be clear, I'm not saying that the Sims is an RPG above and beyond any other form of play, but for those who play the game by the rules. It most definitely is an RPG.
I felt I needed to set this straight because I've been feeling a bit put off lately by the insinuation that RPG Simmers are somehow the redheaded step-child of freeform Simmers when in fact RPG style play was essentially all there was to the original base game.
god game, sandbox game, life Simulator, architectural/fashion design game being amongst the more popular terms used to describe it.
One of the things I keep hearing Simmers saying it's not...is a role playing game.
I beg to differ.
If we break down the game into it's core components we come to understand why one SImmer might refer to the game differently than the next.
This is because the main features of the game are compartmentalized to the extent that they can be completely ignored if a player so chooses.
The big three being CAS, Buy/ Build & Live mode.
Each of these can be engaged seperately and very nearly exclusively depending on the Simmer, making it a different game to each individual depending on how they approach it.
Live mode can then be subdivided into (basically) two types of gameplay.
For lack of better terms I'll just call them freeform and traditional.
In freeform mode the player does whatever they wish. Cheating is allowed, encouraged and even neccessary for some types of gameplay such as movie making.
In traditional mode the player never cheats and plays the game by the pre-established rules set by the developers.
They have a goal oriented play style and use the various assets in the game as a means to achieving those goals.
For these type players The Sims fits the definition of an RPG to a "T".
From Wikipedia
A role-playing game (RPG and sometimes roleplaying game[1][2]) is a game in which players assume the roles ofcharacters in a fictional setting. Players take responsibility for acting out these roles within a narrative, either through literal acting or through a process of structured decision-making or character development.[3] Actions taken within many games succeed or fail according to a formal system of rules and guidelines.[4]
To be clear, I'm not saying that the Sims is an RPG above and beyond any other form of play, but for those who play the game by the rules. It most definitely is an RPG.
I felt I needed to set this straight because I've been feeling a bit put off lately by the insinuation that RPG Simmers are somehow the redheaded step-child of freeform Simmers when in fact RPG style play was essentially all there was to the original base game.
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Comments
Clearly the anvil missed it's designated shipping destination and flew clear over my head.
Now you really lost me...
Thanks for sharing though.
lol
Guess I'm really lost about this "Anvilshipping" stuff too.
heh..appreciate the free bumps though...
Off topic discussions typically get buried under an avalanche of games.
Edit: It just occured to me that he may actually be reffering to Acme shipping.
Wiley Coyote's preferred supplier of anvils for the Road Runners head.
That could very well be it. lol
Anyway, regarding the topic in the original post... I can see how the Sims games are at least very similar to RPGs given that you take the role of one (or more) Sims. Honestly, I haven't ever thought about it being anything other than a simulation game so that's a very interesting point you bring up.
Yeah I had to get that off my chest because I notice a lot of Simmers reffering to the RPG elements of the Sims as if they never belonged in the game. The whole needs filling mechanic couldn't be a more "in your face" example of task based mechanics that have been with the Sims since the very start. You can cheat your way around needs fulfillment...but it always been there.
I see your point, but I think a big part of traditional RPGs is precisely the fact that there tends to be a narrative or some kind of central quest that at least serves as a story line, which is sort of absent from TS4. It surely has RPG elements, but nothing you do in TS can ever really lead you to succeed or fail, because there are no rules. You can of course counter this by saying that we make up our own rules, and then fail according to that (like challenges), but the game won't ever punish you for any of it. So I guess that, for me, would be the difference. Which, like you said too, doesn't mean it doesn't rely on RPG characteristics because it certainly does, but it isn't limited by them.
Just because a game doesn't have a set narrative doesn't mean it doesn't qualify under the RPG genre.
Eve Online would be a perfect example of a sandbox RPG.
I hear you...and semantics wasn't really the main thrust of my point.
What people are basically saying is that task oriented play has no place in the Sims.
They've just poorly chosen "RPG" as a meme (which is ostensibly meant to carry negative connotaions) to try and drive that pont home.
Like I said, I don't disagree with you at all, I was just trying to figure out how one may distinguish them if it all possible
To my reckononing an RPG requires three things.
An avatar, the ability to customize/improve the avatar and a branching or open ended storyline.
However in this case what people are on about is none of the above.
It's the "questing" aspect found in most RPG's that people are objecting to.
What I'm saying is that right from the jump in order to improve your character certain things were required.
In TS1 it was a certain number of friends, plus skill improvement associated with the chosen occupation. (questing)
All this on top of needs fulfillment.
You could cheat around that back in the day (Max Motives) but those who did were constantly coming to the forums complaining of boredom
Over the years needs decay began to take a back seat to the more open ended aspects of the Sims to the point where we have a condition now where some Simmers seem to believe this (freeform play style) is what the game has always been and what it was always intended to be.
Check out what a 13 year veteran playing Sims1 deals with here...and some people are complaining about a few checklists? Please.
OK so to the first question
There is a video I linked up top where James Turner of SimsSupply is playing TS1 Complete.
Keep in mind what you are seeing is the game with all of it's expansions including the vaunted Makin' Magic EP which is pretty much the "go to" pack when you catch people reminiscing about their time with TS1. They'll occassionally mention "Superstar" but practically none of the packs before those two (which happen to be the last two of the iteration) ever get mentioned. Anyway the guy is a long time Simmer and his struggles with it are quite humorous.
For your second question BV stands for Bon Voyage.
The reason I mentioned it is that prior to it's release there was an announcement by the Maxoids that motive decay would be nerfed to accomodate Sims being able to go on vacation.
This announcement sparked a debate over upsetting the "balance" of the gameplay to accomodate those unwilling or unable to play the game by the "rules" vs those that viewed motive decay either as an unneccesary annoyance, or just way too hard.
In the end the change was indeed implemented and some Simmers moved on. (at least I never saw them post again) others stuck around and adopted. The "challenges" which you see on the forum today are actually a byproduct and the leagacy of that era.
Motive decay was nerfed again (into oblivion this time) with the arrival of TS3 to allow for travel time in an open world,
Maxis threw the "gamers" a bone when the first EP out oif the gate was World Adventures a pack unlike any that had come before it because of it's RPG style elements. I have no idea whether releasing this pack first was intentional on their part,but the coincidence is remarkable.
Fortunately the pack was so rich in other distractions, the debate never really gained the traction it did back in the days of BV but it still had loads of detractors before it even officially launched.
I'm not so much a fan of "grinding" for the sake of grinding. Doing that 100% of the time would indeed be a total drag.
I like the sense of progression and accomplishment it provides. Knowing I built this world from the ground up, playing by the rules.
I also like the altrenative it provides when I'm not keen on just goofing around telling stories with them.
So basically that's the gist of it.
I'm not trying to cramp anyone's style, just watching out that people don't get carried away with the notion that this game was intended soley for the freeform playstyle. It's simply not the case.
In other words, what @DeservedCriticism was mentioning in another thread. Immersive simulation versus objective-based gameplay.
Exactly.
I often see people disagree with my views of the Sims and claim that they play the Sims to tell a story, so they don't want tasks or gameplay restrictions getting in the way. On the contrary, I would argue that much of what an RPG strives to do is facilitate storytelling via choices and consequences.
To me? A standard game, say Legend of Zelda, has a clear plot, a clear story, a clear goal and a clear outcome. An RPG typically has a general plot around a general theme, a clear but open-ended story, a very general goal in a general direction and multiple potential outcomes. The game that comes to mind as a perfect example of this is Fallout New Vegas, as it has loads of choices and outcomes with very limited constants within the story, such as you being a Courier or you participating in the political dealings of the region, whether conciously or not. A sandbox game typically has no real plot, no real story, no specific goals and zero end-game outcomes. Best case, a story and plot are optional to participate in.
With the Sims, I see elements of both RPG games and sandbox gaming. The Sims is a sandbox game in the sense you do what you want and, because there's no story, you're free to make your own in any way you see fit.....but it's also an RPG in the sense we want our sims to feel unique from one another. A sandbox game typically just focuses on the player, whereas an RPG focuses on characters and the way characters are different from one another. A big selling point of RPGs is that even after beating them, you go back and play again to see how another character with a different personality might perform, or what different outcomes they'd get. Very few people play just one Sim, so when we have multiple sims, we do want them to act and perform different. This gives them personality and character.
Traits are probably the best up front example. I think if someone told you they play the Sims to tell stories, and then you asked them if they like personality traits, they'd answer yes. This is because those traits help facilitate the story they tell. We're all more convinced that Don Lothario really is a playboy because his personality tweaks his AI in such a way that he tends to flirt and tends to have commitment issues. Without those? He's just another generic Sim that is no more or less a playboy unless we constantly command him to act as one. The traits help acknowledge and validate the story we want to tell.
It doesn't have to stop at traits though. To me, things like skills, aspirations and abilities (such as career unlocks) can all play a role in storytelling. My scientist can live forever whilst my comedian can't because he has the knowledge to make age away potions. My bodybuilder is likely to win a fight against my tech guru, but a fight vs. a powerful vampire could be interesting because the bodybuilder mastered fitness while the vampire got the fitness powers. My gardening sim might survive a fire that kills her family because of her aspiration. It goes on and on.
To me, I like those. They help my characters feel unique instead of it all just being pure imagination. They help me tell a story because sometimes random chance and occurance based on traits/skills/aspirations/abilities can make for a surprisingly interesting story I might not have thought of on my own. For me, I do want to tell a story, but I want the game to also play a role in telling that story.
For me personally, I think it'd be a mistake to neglect those RPG aspects or fail to acknowledge them. No, the Sims isn't exactly a pure RPG, but alongside a simulator and a sandbox game, it definitely has RPG elements, and I think acknowledging those elements can help improve the existing strengths of the series.