Thanks for the question @Yushika ! And for taking the time to answer of course.
Do reader comments influence future decisions for the story?
Sometimes, yes!
Often people will perceive something in a different way than I had intended, and their comments can be pretty inspiring (one of the often overlooked reasons for commenting). There is always room for "oh! That's even BETTER!" In LotL...but would I smash two characters together to please someone if it didn't work for me? No.
I like to think my story has enough fluidity to accept inspiration from outside sources though
@MVWdeZT oh yes no I remember Gretchen was preggers and I remember Nadia and Malcolm but I didn't recall Gretchen having twins and I'm getting to the point now with so many stories I may forget that we were told that. Since we were not I don't feel so bad.
So...perspective. We talked about Voice last week.
What perspective do you use? First Person - @LadyLobster does this brilliantly with all of her different characters. We get to see so much...
Third Person Omniscient?
Third Person Limited?
Where is your perspective for your story? Does it change depending on the chapter? How do you show a character's thoughts if you don't use first person and how do you inform your reader of what other characters think of the characters around them?
I'll let this question marinate for a bit before I answer. I'm so excited to see how people use perspective to tell their stories.
The prologue of my story is third person limited, following Gwen and her thoughts which I italicize to separate them from the narrative. And because I follow Gwen, I only speculate what other characters think based on physical cues. It's hard to not slip into third person omniscient because I would love to detail what other characters feel and think...especially Yuki aftet yesterday's chapter. But the prologue is all about Gwen and her journey.
I've started writing the first chapter of the first generation and I'm dabbling with first person present tense...it's very difficult but oh-so fun.
I usually do third person, limited to the person I am focusing on in that section. Like, if I'm focusing on Jack I JUST state Jack's feelings and what he sees. Sometimes, I've focused on two people. I typically like to decide who I want to highlight and give them the spotlight. It helps me feel them out more!
I DO want to use first person in diary format here and there, and I know where that'll be inserted!
Come check out my Sims 4 legacy story! We're on generation one currently. It's Just Another Story
I kind of regret not doing first person diary for the prologue because it would've tied so well into the interlude between the prologue and generation 1.
But at the same time, I feel like third person limited works well for the prologue because it will show that it's different from the main story.
I, much like the two of you have said, do third person limited for my chapters thus far. The story as I envisioned was original supposed to be told from Elizabeth's point of view exclusively though I have decided to branch out a bit and this latest chapter was told from Brooks PoV in the first bit, Elizabeth's in the second and the final bit was from Hudson's point of view.
I think after the final five vampires join the coven I will narrate an entire chapter exclusively from a single point of view.
I love toying with the idea similar to @LadyLobster that we get multiple views of the same persons actions. From the characters direct point of view as well as the way others see the same situation.
I like third person limited because I feel it gives the smaller sense almost of first person, but I have never been really comfortable using 'I' statements. Perhaps I should try a journal or two occasionally now that we have more characters to see if I can improve my first person perspective.
Aha, as @cshaner mentioned, I use first person throughout my entire story! (And thank you for the lovely compliment. ) Though I did sort of experiment with third person in Darius' chapter for a sort of fairy tale effect.
I think one of the weaknesses of first person is that you only get to see a character through the lens of the narrator, and that picture can't help but be incomplete or even outright inaccurate. I like to take advantage of that in my own story, often for comedic effect--obviously Bianca and Byron have very different views of both themselves and each other, and interpret their own and each other's actions very, very differently. And then when I hold off on chapters from the perspective of characters like Lysander, Isla, Darius, and Daya, it's easy to make assumptions about them from the perspective of other characters that aren't necessarily true at all.
I really enjoy using perspective to slowly unravel the characters behind their personas. All of my characters have insecurities or things they'd like to hide in front of other people, so Isla will act like she's the coolest Queen Plum in Town in front of Penny when in reality she's plagued by regret over the past and worry for the future. Lysander seemed bland in the beginning and barely more than an object of lust for Bianca, but then you see he's struggling with years of guilt (and his almost pathological uptight butleryness).
But even with first person, some of my characters share far more than others. Byron, of course, will pour out everything to his invisible audience. Everything. Even things he probably shouldn't... Bianca will ramble on but try to lie to herself and her audience. Penny withholds things that are still possible to pick up on if you read between the lines, like her affection for Darius and later, Byron. They also all have different things that are important to them and will focus on those things above all others.
I really love this topic! As I've mentioned before, this is my first time playing with multiple PoVs, so it's been both a challenge and a ton of fun weaving a bunch of weirdos' perspectives together. But now I can't imagine this story any other way...how different would it be if I followed Byron's thoughts the entire time?!
I like third person limited because I feel it gives the smaller sense almost of first person
Yes, agreed! I like third person limited for this reason too!
In addition to limited, I also use objective and omniscient rather interchangeably.
I never use second person perspective; frak that.
I'm am not at all opposed to using first person perspective...perhaps for a future project? Like @LadyLobster said, " you only get to see a character through the lens of the narrator", which, as she's so elegantly demonstrated with FftM, can be AMAZING.
@LadyLobster you know, right from the start it was obvious in hilarious ways that the characters would 'tell' on each other. (Plastic garlic in Bianca's drawer?)
You weave the narrative so well and as you said how different would the entire story be if (you chose Byron but I'll choose Daya) if Daya's emotionless voice narrated the entire thing in almost documentary style??
First we'd lose 95% of the humor and we also would lose all of the love!!!
While Daya has her own subtle humor her detached way of approaching everything would make each character less real I think.
More than changing to a single perspective, in curious how (if at all) the story would change by changing to a third person.
What advantage does first person give over third?
Do you think perhaps 'I' puts the readers directly inside the mind of your character?
How would Guinevere or Petal or Elizabeth be different with "I"?
@cshaner Weeeell I could give you a preview of Gwen's "I" if you would like. There would be no spoilers since the first paragraph of gen 1 is a dream thing
While Daya has her own subtle humor her detached way of approaching everything would make each character less real I think.
More than changing to a single perspective, in curious how (if at all) the story would change by changing to a third person.
What advantage does first person give over third?
Do you think perhaps 'I' puts the readers directly inside the mind of your character?
How would Guinevere or Petal or Elizabeth be different with "I"?
You're so right about Daya narrating the whole story--it would be like an alien documentary, rofl. Neutral, long-winded, almost scientific observer... Her detached observations definitely would make it much more difficult to connect with the other characters, and possibly just as difficult to connect with her. I like using characters like her, Penny, and Saul as a foil to everyone else's shenanigans, and it just wouldn't work if she were the sole narrator! But I love thinking about that now.
I've also wondered how the story would change if I'd chosen third person instead--it's something I'm still considering for gen 2. It depends on the narration style, I think, as well as omniscient vs. limited. Plenty of third person narration has a lot of humor in it!
I do think that one of the advantages first gives over third is putting the audience into the heads of the characters, just like how present tense can create a sense of action and immediacy vs. past tense. But for me, the main advantage first gives is the potential for comedy and surprise, as well as weaving all these disparate stories and characters together in weird, unexpected ways.
@cshaner Awww, thank you for such great, in-depth discussion questions!! They're so much fun to think about--and write about too! And you do so much research on all of our stories to find and use examples for them.
When I'm doing a legacy, I'll switch things around, depending on which generation I'm working with. If I'm doing 3rd person, I'll use letters, journal entries, blogs, to get a 1st person perspective in there.
I tend to use 3rd person omniscient for beginnings or setting the scene -- "It was a dark and stormy night, etc."
When going to Gen 2, I honestly expected Nadia to be my 1st person narrator and Gretchen and Balthazar to both be 3rd person limited. Well, surprise, surprise -- that's not the way they wanted it. I do try to stay consistent for a generation, so I guess Nadia will be keeping a journal or something when I want to go into her head.
I've seen 2nd person used effectively, mainly for traumatic incidents from childhood. I think one writer, whose name I can't remember, used it entirely for a novel about growing up in 1930's Germany, which probably would be pretty traumatic.
Tenses next? That should be fun.
My computer had a problem this morning, which is why I haven't been on much. My CPU wasn't talking to the monitor. Anyway, I got that fixed, but now I don't have an Internet connection on that computer and am using my old laptop -- boo hiss -- so will probably not be writing much today.
@MVWdeZT ooooh 2nd person is used so infrequently!! I honestly don't even know how to do it other than it's the 'we' so sorta maybe a cross between the I of 1st person and the he/she of 3rd?
I've never used second. Ever. Honestly not even sure I've read anything from this perspective! Very interesting.
I've been lurking for the great discussions for a while, but I thought I'd chime in real quick. Sorry if it's not allowed :X
I used 2nd person when I used to write 'Create your own destiny' stories. Basically, it's an interactive story where the readers makes choices, and based on those choices they go to different sections of the story and the whole plot changes. Those were fun times.
Comments
Do reader comments influence future decisions for the story?
Sometimes, yes!
Often people will perceive something in a different way than I had intended, and their comments can be pretty inspiring (one of the often overlooked reasons for commenting). There is always room for "oh! That's even BETTER!" In LotL...but would I smash two characters together to please someone if it didn't work for me? No.
I like to think my story has enough fluidity to accept inspiration from outside sources though
Sensible b**tches indeed. *highfive*
@Yushika great question about if readers influence her!! Loved your answer too fruity spice! :Orange: :Apple: :banana:
I agree readers sometimes have some of the coolest thoughts I love comments for that reason!!
SimFluence - Where Sims Influence the Story
Blood that Binds: A Vampire Coven Challenge Updated 04/22/2017
Life Under Construction: A Drifter Challenge House 001 Completed 1/29/17 | Orphan Challenge: Harkins Family Completed 11/12/16
Origin ID: cshaner07
It makes me so sad to think what a disappointment he seems to be to Vlad. B is right. If Nadia had been male she would have made Vlad proud.
also... did we know Gretchen had twins? I may have forgotten!!
SimFluence - Where Sims Influence the Story
Blood that Binds: A Vampire Coven Challenge Updated 04/22/2017
Life Under Construction: A Drifter Challenge House 001 Completed 1/29/17 | Orphan Challenge: Harkins Family Completed 11/12/16
Origin ID: cshaner07
SimFluence - Where Sims Influence the Story
Blood that Binds: A Vampire Coven Challenge Updated 04/22/2017
Life Under Construction: A Drifter Challenge House 001 Completed 1/29/17 | Orphan Challenge: Harkins Family Completed 11/12/16
Origin ID: cshaner07
Let's get all writer up in here.
So...perspective. We talked about Voice last week.
What perspective do you use? First Person - @LadyLobster does this brilliantly with all of her different characters. We get to see so much...
Where is your perspective for your story? Does it change depending on the chapter? How do you show a character's thoughts if you don't use first person and how do you inform your reader of what other characters think of the characters around them?
I'll let this question marinate for a bit before I answer. I'm so excited to see how people use perspective to tell their stories.
SimFluence - Where Sims Influence the Story
Blood that Binds: A Vampire Coven Challenge Updated 04/22/2017
Life Under Construction: A Drifter Challenge House 001 Completed 1/29/17 | Orphan Challenge: Harkins Family Completed 11/12/16
Origin ID: cshaner07
I've started writing the first chapter of the first generation and I'm dabbling with first person present tense...it's very difficult but oh-so fun.
I DO want to use first person in diary format here and there, and I know where that'll be inserted!
Come check out my Sims 4 legacy story! We're on generation one currently.
It's Just Another Story
But at the same time, I feel like third person limited works well for the prologue because it will show that it's different from the main story.
I think after the final five vampires join the coven I will narrate an entire chapter exclusively from a single point of view.
I love toying with the idea similar to @LadyLobster that we get multiple views of the same persons actions. From the characters direct point of view as well as the way others see the same situation.
I like third person limited because I feel it gives the smaller sense almost of first person, but I have never been really comfortable using 'I' statements. Perhaps I should try a journal or two occasionally now that we have more characters to see if I can improve my first person perspective.
SimFluence - Where Sims Influence the Story
Blood that Binds: A Vampire Coven Challenge Updated 04/22/2017
Life Under Construction: A Drifter Challenge House 001 Completed 1/29/17 | Orphan Challenge: Harkins Family Completed 11/12/16
Origin ID: cshaner07
I think one of the weaknesses of first person is that you only get to see a character through the lens of the narrator, and that picture can't help but be incomplete or even outright inaccurate. I like to take advantage of that in my own story, often for comedic effect--obviously Bianca and Byron have very different views of both themselves and each other, and interpret their own and each other's actions very, very differently. And then when I hold off on chapters from the perspective of characters like Lysander, Isla, Darius, and Daya, it's easy to make assumptions about them from the perspective of other characters that aren't necessarily true at all.
I really enjoy using perspective to slowly unravel the characters behind their personas. All of my characters have insecurities or things they'd like to hide in front of other people, so Isla will act like she's the coolest Queen Plum in Town in front of Penny when in reality she's plagued by regret over the past and worry for the future. Lysander seemed bland in the beginning and barely more than an object of lust for Bianca, but then you see he's struggling with years of guilt (and his almost pathological uptight butleryness).
But even with first person, some of my characters share far more than others. Byron, of course, will pour out everything to his invisible audience. Everything. Even things he probably shouldn't... Bianca will ramble on but try to lie to herself and her audience. Penny withholds things that are still possible to pick up on if you read between the lines, like her affection for Darius and later, Byron. They also all have different things that are important to them and will focus on those things above all others.
I really love this topic! As I've mentioned before, this is my first time playing with multiple PoVs, so it's been both a challenge and a ton of fun weaving a bunch of weirdos' perspectives together. But now I can't imagine this story any other way...how different would it be if I followed Byron's thoughts the entire time?!
Yes, agreed! I like third person limited for this reason too!
In addition to limited, I also use objective and omniscient rather interchangeably.
I never use second person perspective; frak that.
I'm am not at all opposed to using first person perspective...perhaps for a future project? Like @LadyLobster said, " you only get to see a character through the lens of the narrator", which, as she's so elegantly demonstrated with FftM, can be AMAZING.
You weave the narrative so well and as you said how different would the entire story be if (you chose Byron but I'll choose Daya) if Daya's emotionless voice narrated the entire thing in almost documentary style??
First we'd lose 95% of the humor and we also would lose all of the love!!!
While Daya has her own subtle humor her detached way of approaching everything would make each character less real I think.
More than changing to a single perspective, in curious how (if at all) the story would change by changing to a third person.
What advantage does first person give over third?
Do you think perhaps 'I' puts the readers directly inside the mind of your character?
How would Guinevere or Petal or Elizabeth be different with "I"?
SimFluence - Where Sims Influence the Story
Blood that Binds: A Vampire Coven Challenge Updated 04/22/2017
Life Under Construction: A Drifter Challenge House 001 Completed 1/29/17 | Orphan Challenge: Harkins Family Completed 11/12/16
Origin ID: cshaner07
You're so right about Daya narrating the whole story--it would be like an alien documentary, rofl. Neutral, long-winded, almost scientific observer... Her detached observations definitely would make it much more difficult to connect with the other characters, and possibly just as difficult to connect with her. I like using characters like her, Penny, and Saul as a foil to everyone else's shenanigans, and it just wouldn't work if she were the sole narrator! But I love thinking about that now.
I've also wondered how the story would change if I'd chosen third person instead--it's something I'm still considering for gen 2. It depends on the narration style, I think, as well as omniscient vs. limited. Plenty of third person narration has a lot of humor in it!
I do think that one of the advantages first gives over third is putting the audience into the heads of the characters, just like how present tense can create a sense of action and immediacy vs. past tense. But for me, the main advantage first gives is the potential for comedy and surprise, as well as weaving all these disparate stories and characters together in weird, unexpected ways.
I know what our next discussion topic is going to be!!!!!
SimFluence - Where Sims Influence the Story
Blood that Binds: A Vampire Coven Challenge Updated 04/22/2017
Life Under Construction: A Drifter Challenge House 001 Completed 1/29/17 | Orphan Challenge: Harkins Family Completed 11/12/16
Origin ID: cshaner07
SimFluence - Where Sims Influence the Story
Blood that Binds: A Vampire Coven Challenge Updated 04/22/2017
Life Under Construction: A Drifter Challenge House 001 Completed 1/29/17 | Orphan Challenge: Harkins Family Completed 11/12/16
Origin ID: cshaner07
Eep! I spoileded it!
I'm certain no one was surprised after LL mentioned it in her thoughtful post.
SimFluence - Where Sims Influence the Story
Blood that Binds: A Vampire Coven Challenge Updated 04/22/2017
Life Under Construction: A Drifter Challenge House 001 Completed 1/29/17 | Orphan Challenge: Harkins Family Completed 11/12/16
Origin ID: cshaner07
I'm glad I've found a great group that likes it as much as I do!
SimFluence - Where Sims Influence the Story
Blood that Binds: A Vampire Coven Challenge Updated 04/22/2017
Life Under Construction: A Drifter Challenge House 001 Completed 1/29/17 | Orphan Challenge: Harkins Family Completed 11/12/16
Origin ID: cshaner07
I tend to use 3rd person omniscient for beginnings or setting the scene -- "It was a dark and stormy night, etc."
When going to Gen 2, I honestly expected Nadia to be my 1st person narrator and Gretchen and Balthazar to both be 3rd person limited. Well, surprise, surprise -- that's not the way they wanted it. I do try to stay consistent for a generation, so I guess Nadia will be keeping a journal or something when I want to go into her head.
I've seen 2nd person used effectively, mainly for traumatic incidents from childhood. I think one writer, whose name I can't remember, used it entirely for a novel about growing up in 1930's Germany, which probably would be pretty traumatic.
Tenses next? That should be fun.
My computer had a problem this morning, which is why I haven't been on much. My CPU wasn't talking to the monitor. Anyway, I got that fixed, but now I don't have an Internet connection on that computer and am using my old laptop -- boo hiss -- so will probably not be writing much today.
I've never used second. Ever. Honestly not even sure I've read anything from this perspective! Very interesting.
SimFluence - Where Sims Influence the Story
Blood that Binds: A Vampire Coven Challenge Updated 04/22/2017
Life Under Construction: A Drifter Challenge House 001 Completed 1/29/17 | Orphan Challenge: Harkins Family Completed 11/12/16
Origin ID: cshaner07
I used 2nd person when I used to write 'Create your own destiny' stories. Basically, it's an interactive story where the readers makes choices, and based on those choices they go to different sections of the story and the whole plot changes. Those were fun times.
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