Somethings that are missing yet needed back in the game «12...Next Go

GoldenBuffy

So I was on Tumblr and this come up on my feed from naterxandersims.

He makes some good points and the suggestions could go a long way if implemented in game. It would add so much more to the sims themselves, which they are sorely lacking in. We know EA can give us so awesome fleshed out sims, just look at toddlers. They just need to go that extra mile now.

I finally pinpointed the exact reason I can’t enjoy Sims 4

I’ve gone on and on about how I don’t like sims 4 because the gameplay is shallow, the sims all feel the same, it all feels rushed, it’s not as detailed, etc. Which yes, all of those are big contributing factors, but I found the specific reason.

With each stuff pack, game pack, and expansion pack, the world around them changes, but the Sims themselves never change.

With each pack we receive, we get anything from new furniture and interactive objects, new careers and skills, new traits, sometimes even new worlds. But what big changes ever happen to the sims? Sure, they can learn a new skill here and there. They can take on a new trait or lifetime wish, but they still largely feel the same every time. But if you look at Sims 2, so much about the sims changed with each expansion.

University - Added an entirely new lifestage that was completely different than any already in the game. But not only that, it added lifetime wishes. Now each sim could take on one big goal that they wanted to strive to complete in their lifetime. This was a big game changer for us as players in deciding how we wanted our sims to go about life. It also added the influence bar that opened up entirely new socialization options.

Nightlife - Added turn-ons and turn-offs so we could decide the types of sims that ours found attractive and clicked with more easily. This also made it more difficult to chat up townies.

Open for Business - Added talent badges, something totally new from the skill bars we were used to improving.

Pets, Seasons, and Bon Voyage didn’t add much in terms of changing the sims themselves, but I think they added enough solid gameplay that makes up for it.

Freetime - Added the hobby enthusiasm which will forever be one of my favorite gameplay features in any Sims game. It added so much varied gameplay to help make each sim feel unique because there were so many hobbies to choose from, so many ways to build enthusiasm for it, and so many perks unlocked. This also added the lifetime aspiration meter which was a measure of how happy of a life your sim had from the time they were born until the time they died. Unlike Sims 3 and Sims 4′s lifetime points that you spend for perks (of which every sim can unlock the same ones) this meter didn’t decrease by buying perks, so you could always tell where they were in life, and the perks were specific to which aspiration your sim was, which was another way that sims felt unique. For instance, popularity sims could buy a perk that let them make 3-way phone calls, and family sims could buy a perk that let them make grandma’s comfort soup that cured illnesses.

Apartment Life - Added the reputation system which was based on the way your sim interacted with the world and sims around them. For instance, if they were awful to the townies, their reputation would be poor and sims would gossip about you and not like you before even meeting you. It also added the social groups that, again, made each sim feel unique, and again, affect how certain sims viewed your sim. It made the social factor of the game much more realistic in that not everyone would love your sims immediately upon meeting them.

None of this even touches on anything else these expansions added outside of the sims themselves, and they added a hell of a lot. So the issue is that Sims 4 isn’t adding anything that fundamentally changes the Sims or how we play them. No matter how many traits or skills or careers or interactive objects they add, each sim will continue to feel exactly the same as every sim you made and played before them.

This is made worse by the fact that the traits are barely noticeable (I always forget what traits my sims even have), any sim can take on any lifetime wish at any point without any negative consequences, every sim can buy any of the lifetime rewards no matter what lifetime wish they’re working towards. Every sim is just an exact clone of each other.

The team needs to innovate. They need to evolve the game, not just throw more animations at us that we’ll watch once or twice and then be bored by. I mean how many times can you really watch your sims play basketball, or bake brownies before you crave something deeper?

Sorry for such a huge wall of text. If you made it this far, thanks for sticking through it. Would love to hear what you think.

Neia

I think how much these systems change the game is highly subjective : the influence system, the social groups or the reputation system have done absolutely nothing for my gameplay for example. Badges were just skills for me. Hobby enthuasism was neat at first, but I think the skill system achieves the same thing (unlock new things as they spend time doing an activity). From all the things listed, I would say the attraction system and the lifetime aspiration are the only ones I truly want to see again.

JoAnne65

I think it's different for every simmer and therefore a hard nut to crack. I notice people who favour Sims 1 and 2 would like to see all kind of real gamy aspects (earning points, running a business, crazy need bars). I don't like that myself, I want the game to be a huge pool of freedom where I can do whatever I want. There has to be some progression and there must be consequences or I'll get bored, but I want to do it in my own time and I don't want it to be a focus. People who like Sims 4 the way it is enjoy playing with the emotions and apparently don't mind there aren't many consequences socially and that sims have no memory or hold grudges to specific persons, they like playing the game from moment to moment and depend on their own imagination where the sims are concerned. They don't need them to have a personality because the personality is in their head (I assume).

Evil_One

But the point of the Sims is and always has been that Sims live or die according to their personalities, even on the offshoots personality played a pretty big part (TSM even added fatal flaws).

GoldenBuffy

I guess I fall under those who enjoyed everything or almost everything that Sims 2 introduced. I was able to play how I wanted, at my pace, and my sims felt fully fleshed out. Take hobbies for example, there was a reason for them to go out and get a hobby. They enjoyed it, skilled (or advanced in it), and it helped to round them out into an interesting sim. Memories are the same, they appeared to learn and grow for past mistakes.

Yeah, I made up stories in my head, but the best part is, they actually played out in my game. It was all a facade like it is right now. He hit many point on the head for me, and I would love to see them return. Because this is a life simulation game, and right now it's severely lacking. I'm tired of all my sims being exactly the same no matter what traits we ascribe to them. There are no consequences either, which detracts from game play too.

Neia

@GoldenBuffy
Traits aren't the only thing that makes my Sims feel different : careers, skills, clubs all play a part too. I don't think the hobby system was achieving something different, I'm playing with the skill in the same way as I was with TS2 hobbies : they enjoy it, they advance in it, and it helps define them.

GoldenBuffy

@Neia, I agree traits aren't the be all end all. But even with the careers they have now, the clubs, etc. the sims themselves fall flat. They are still one dimensional, and the emotions need a complete overhaul. You need to be able to add way more traits than just three. Just the whole psyche of the sims needs to be reworked. There's so much potential that has been passed over and missed just to make this game more 'simplified".

To7m

I think those things on that list are, again, something that should be in from the get go at this stage in the game. I think our opinions shouldn't matter, because there are certain things one *expects* when you bring this game to the table. It's different than asking for a feature, in my book. Things like turn on/offs part of the very muscle and bone of this game and make it what it is. It's not subjective. It's a 'Sims' game, as I said; expectations! Whether you play with those features or not, that's up to you. Why should every other player suffer because some people don't use them?

Personally, I'd say they're missing out.

--T

GoldenBuffy

To7m wrote: »

I think those things on that list are, again, something that should be in from the get go at this stage in the game. I think our opinions shouldn't matter, because there are certain things one *expects* when you bring this game to the table. It's different than asking for a feature, in my book. Things like turn on/offs part of the very muscle and bone of this game and make it what it is. It's not subjective. It's a 'Sims' game, as I said; expectations! Whether you play with those features or not, that's up to you. Why should every other player suffer because some people don't use them?

Personally, I'd say they're missing out.

--T

I'm sleepy, or I would put in a big old "YESSS!" gif.

Neia

@To7m
These things aren't the only way the concepts could be implemented though. I mean, doing things you want to do (wants) to diminish how much you have to pee (lifetime bonus) isn't an obvious expectation.

To7m

Neia wrote: »

@To7m
These things aren't the only way the concepts could be implemented though. I mean, doing things you want to do (wants) to diminish how much you have to pee (lifetime bonus) isn't an obvious expectation.

Again, you completely miss my point. I'm not talking about rewards. I'm talking about the sims themselves and in who their attracted to or not. Even reputation, other sims talking about your sim offers no reward and I would expect it to. We're talking about the very depth of what makes a sim unique, and last time I checked I wasn't changing my life aspiration every two seconds when I got bored. Neither do I need to have 3 points in 6 different skills to proceed. They're just unnecessary and offer no depth to the character of the sim. I want something my sim can *strive* for, dream for, yearn for their entire life. I want them to prefer red heads over blondes, and vice versa. I want depth.

You don't have to like it or use it but yes, these are things I *expect* to be in a game based on human life. Who do you know that can hold their bladder indefinitely? Nobody! And I wasn't even talking about that in the first place.

--T

Neia

@To7m
Well, you said the "things on that list" and there's the lifetime aspiration and buying perks in the list. And like I said earlier, it's one of the things I did like actually.

To7m

Neia wrote: »

@To7m
Well, you said the "things on that list" and there's the lifetime aspiration and buying perks in the list. And like I said earlier, it's one of the things I did like actually.

Rewards are just a pro to aspirations, I'm talking about the aspirations. The rewards are optional. It's the aspirations that make the sims have dreams and something to work towards. Having a steel bladder isn't something I worry about in the sims, other than not having to use the toilet it has no other effect on my sim. No mark. It's just a perk. Decoration.

--T

Neia

@To7m
In TS2, it wasn't a no pee at all, it just diminished the decay, I liked it better, felt less cheaty. They have aspirations in TS4 though, the concept is there, but it's the implementation that I don't like : most of the whims are far too short-term, they feel like the Pleasure aspiration from TS2 (which I didn't like either). I miss the more middle-term/long-term wants we had in TS2.

I wonder if they'll rework the aspirations at some point, probably not since they are adding new ones regularly, but the vampire power UI makes me wish we had something like that for aspirations. Fullfill family wants, gain family points, choose family bonuses. I think it would makes me feel like my Sims are really achieving what they're aspiring to. They could even let you progress in several aspirations, you would then unlock bonuses related to the different aspirations. So for example, you could play several phases in the life of the Sims and keep bonuses based on what they were aiming for at that time, some kind of history/building of the Sims personality.

To7m

Neia wrote: »

@To7m
In TS2, it wasn't a no pee at all, it just diminished the decay, I liked it better, felt less cheaty. They have aspirations in TS4 though, the concept is there, but it's the implementation that I don't like : most of the whims are far too short-term, they feel like the Pleasure aspiration from TS2 (which I didn't like either). I miss the more middle-term/long-term wants we had in TS2.

I wonder if they'll rework the aspirations at some point, probably not since they are adding new ones regularly, but the vampire power UI makes me wish we had something like that for aspirations. Fullfill family wants, gain family points, choose family bonuses. I think it would makes me feel like my Sims are really achieving what they're aspiring to. They could even let you progress in several aspirations, you would then unlock bonuses related to the different aspirations. So for example, you could play several phases in the life of the Sims and keep bonuses based on what they were aiming for at that time, some kind of history/building of the Sims personality.

That's actually not a bad idea. I like it.

--T

Neia

To7m wrote: »

Neia wrote: »

@To7m
In TS2, it wasn't a no pee at all, it just diminished the decay, I liked it better, felt less cheaty. They have aspirations in TS4 though, the concept is there, but it's the implementation that I don't like : most of the whims are far too short-term, they feel like the Pleasure aspiration from TS2 (which I didn't like either). I miss the more middle-term/long-term wants we had in TS2.

I wonder if they'll rework the aspirations at some point, probably not since they are adding new ones regularly, but the vampire power UI makes me wish we had something like that for aspirations. Fullfill family wants, gain family points, choose family bonuses. I think it would makes me feel like my Sims are really achieving what they're aspiring to. They could even let you progress in several aspirations, you would then unlock bonuses related to the different aspirations. So for example, you could play several phases in the life of the Sims and keep bonuses based on what they were aiming for at that time, some kind of history/building of the Sims personality.

That's actually not a bad idea. I like it.

--T

Thanks !

LatinaBunny

Oh, I really like this thread. I love the tumblr post's arguments , and I also love @Neia 'a suggestions for aspirations. It really pinpoints on some of the issues with these sims and why they feel somewhat flat" compared to past sims from older sims games.

A big YES to fleshed out sims and more engaging gameplay depth for the sims themselves.

More tweaking of reaction AI, traits, AI memory, Aspirations and Whims is definitely needed.

The toddlers are great, and I hope that other life stages are tweaked/revamped (lol, thinking of that vamp GP, whoops) in a similar manner.

Leo2009SSA

'Toddlers' is a big step in the right direction. They still have a lot to do thou.
AI controlled Sims' reactions to what happens around them, Sims' memories, all The Sims-2 interactions, are a few things that would make a huge difference for the better if brought back or included in the game.
If they add all three things I mentioned above (Reactions, Memories, and All Sims-2 interactions) this version would already be the best version of the franchise.

Skobee

Honestly, the only thing I miss are Seasons, Pets and memories and two of them could come back in packs. Memories I miss because I feel like my sims forget everything what happened to them. I always loved it when a baby grew up to elder (not in one go ofcourse) you could go back and see what happened to them in their lifetime, i'm hoping this will come back in a patch one day.

Bye19

Please put the university expansion back in the sims 4 game. Also add a daycare expansion for the toddlers to go to daycare while the parents are at work.

MiataPlay

Bye19 wrote: »

Please put the university expansion back in the sims 4 game. Also add a daycare expansion for the toddlers to go to daycare while the parents are at work.

Toddlers do have the option to go to daycare while the parent is at work. A learning center for kids like the one in sims 3 would be a nice added feature for toddlers.

Lissmels

Honestly, I think it's much simpler than it sounds to make the sims unique. In the sims 2 and 3, traits and personality points built the sim's personality and had the sims react differently to things and prefer one action over the other. In the sims 4, traits don't matter. Traits in the sims 4 only ever affects the mood and skill building. My creative sims will never go off doing anything creative unless I tell them to, but gets tense when they haven't done anything creative in a while. Same with genius sims, and tbh most traits are like this. I forget my sims' traits a lot because they show literally NO sign of them until reminded through moodlets.

Make the sims act and react depending on their personality traits. Then add more traits, and allow a sim to have more of them. THAT if how you build a sim's personality.

MiataPlay

@Lissmels Agreed!!

The sims feel generic when the emotions and traits are disconnected. This dulls the gaming experience.

Jenzup

JoAnne65 wrote: »

I think it's different for every simmer and therefore a hard nut to crack. I notice people who favour Sims 1 and 2 would like to see all kind of real gamy aspects (earning points, running a business, crazy need bars). I don't like that myself, I want the game to be a huge pool of freedom where I can do whatever I want. There has to be some progression and there must be consequences or I'll get bored, but I want to do it in my own time and I don't want it to be a focus. People who like Sims 4 the way it is enjoy playing with the emotions and apparently don't mind there aren't many consequences socially and that sims have no memory or hold grudges to specific persons, they like playing the game from moment to moment and depend on their own imagination where the sims are concerned. They don't need them to have a personality because the personality is in their head (I assume).

I agree with you every Simmer has a different experience from their game play. I'm playing 4 now and i don't mind the little tasks that they have for the sim to do in order to get promotions and to fulfill their lifetime wishes. That being said I'm not happy about the fact that I can't set their lifespans on long and that they age up so quickly. The only thing I can do to stop their aging is to fulfill their whims so I can buy the anti-aging potion. This irritates me cause often I don't agree with their whims either because I've done one already (several times and am tired with doing it) or It's not what I want them to do because it clashes with who I think they are as a simperson. I like how they change their whims based on mood I think that is a neat and realistic to game play and that their whims seem to be trait based but I don't like that I have to do so many just to get the anti-aging potion to set their lives on longer when in Sims 3 I could set their lives on maximum (which I always did) cause otherwise it's a little hard to do everything they want before they age up especially as teens and I don't like that.

Jenzup

Lissmels wrote: »

Honestly, I think it's much simpler than it sounds to make the sims unique. In the sims 2 and 3, traits and personality points built the sim's personality and had the sims react differently to things and prefer one action over the other. In the sims 4, traits don't matter. Traits in the sims 4 only ever affects the mood and skill building. My creative sims will never go off doing anything creative unless I tell them to, but gets tense when they haven't done anything creative in a while. Same with genius sims, and tbh most traits are like this. I forget my sims' traits a lot because they show literally NO sign of them until reminded through moodlets.

Make the sims act and react depending on their personality traits. Then add more traits, and allow a sim to have more of them. THAT if how you build a sim's personality.

Oh yeah I don't like when my sim is tense from not doing something based on their traits. Well for one thing my mischeif sim who's in the crimminal career had just swiped something at work and then when she got home she was tense because she hadn't swiped anything lately. I'm like geez simwoman how much swiping are you going to have to do to keep you happy? My other sims were the same way tense because they hadn't done something in a while when it wasn't all that long ago that they had done an activity involving their traits. I also don't like the fact that the appliances keep breaking everytime I turn around, granted they are cheap but it's like the game isn't happy unless one or more of my appliaces or plumbing objects are broken. I think I'd be screaming in insanity if stuff broke that often IRL.

Pegasys

Jenzup wrote: »

I agree with you every Simmer has a different experience from their game play. I'm playing 4 now and i don't mind the little tasks that they have for the sim to do in order to get promotions and to fulfill their lifetime wishes. That being said I'm not happy about the fact that I can't set their lifespans on long and that they age up so quickly. The only thing I can do to stop their aging is to fulfill their whims so I can buy the anti-aging potion.

@Jenzup Why can't you set their lifespans on long? Or turn off aging for that matter? It's in the Gameplay options.