Graham, That long post still does not answer one of the most important thing. Will there be EPs or they are stopped?
It is a Yes or No answer.
I didnt buy the last SP and GP because I am waiting for an EP, if it is something that I really want I will purchase the previous packs that I did not buy.
But I guess now we have moved to a more critical question whether there will be EPs or not. These game packs and stuff packs are not significant game changers. They can never replace an EP. If there will be no more EPs then we can tell The Sims 4 to rest in peace and move on.
Everything I post is an opinion here and I think every post of others is as well.
Thank you @SimGuruGraham, for coming here to address some misconceptions. We like to hear from you because sometimes some of us think you are the only one with patience enough to deal with us.
I would think this would be a two edged sword and very challenging. Not only due to how you need to do things differently this time but by trying to keep players engaged (like me) it might have been better ( because of someone like me, lol) I didn't come here every month to find out what is new. Then I wind up not leaving again for awhile. Then next month rinse and repeat. I'm not sure I like this new engagement policy with live service. Sometimes players just want their game and not be bothered (patches) until the next big thing. It's not only an experience for you guys but for some of us. Sometimes, a good thing, sometimes total annoyance. Especially for those who use mods (but I don't). And sometimes find it annoying to have to install yet again another patch. Even if does have free content.
Where you guys say opportunity/challenging/ fun learning experience, I would say headache. And some of us (me) feel the content has been on the very lean side this time. Not sure I like The Sims series this time being a live service. You know it's hard for us to change and most of us who have played all your games expect big EPs with big gameplay on a regular schedule so don't get upset with us when we get restless.
It's been the pattern for many years month after month how we looked forward to, (and knew) what was coming next. Radio silence isn't that much fun for Simmers. We like those good ole days when the next thing was stated on a flyer in the box (All the old games) or big news on TS3's store ad every month. Hey, we love Sims and content and big gameplay. So, it's a huge adjustment to us, too. Some of us feel with this new service we don't get a lot of choices for content so we get really bored especially since the TS4 is also very different in how it plays. Not a bad game, some great things there, but maybe not the favorite with all of us. But found some things enjoyable. Some packs have been very good whether GP or SP and parts of EPs. But I'm still waiting on the amazing which with how content has been scheduled hasn't come my way yet, but some has been very good.
If we are all waiting on something to dazzle us we can't help but sit here and speculate, when we have to remain engaged by coming back every month to see what's new.
But thank you for staying in touch with fans and always explaining stuff to us like you always have.
"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.
@SimGuruGraham , if you look back over your day and sort out what you feel was a task, or tasks, well done, count this post among them. Helping simmers interpret a term they may not be familiar with and how it impacts their game is time well spent. Thank you for taking the time to do so.
I recognized the ability to patch issues quickly as a real benefit with the implementation of "live service" but your post reminded me that developers are making adjustments, too. Excerpted from your post:
"Operating as a live service removes a lot of those challenges I described in The Sims 3 for us. We have an expansion team, a game pack team, a stuff pack team, and an engagement team (engagement = the free content in game updates). We all sit together intermingled in the same studio, we develop multiple packs simultaneously between our teams, and our code and assets between those packs are integrated together daily (super important for facilitating simultaneous development of different packs). Some people in the studio even work on a few of those teams at the same time (that's actually one of the major things we've been trying to adjust to and create better development practices for.)"
Teams, plural, sitting together with the ability to integrate codes and assets for packs is a real positive in my book. It also gives me hope that areas of gameplay that I and other simmers have issues with can be tweaked via the patch process to hit a happy medium everyone can live with. Not going to give a specific example/s as this isn't the time or place to do so but I like the idea that a really unpopular gameplay experience doesn't have to be considered set in stone.
But this live service, does it end up slowing everything down?
Like, are you guys going to be releasing less content for The Sims 4, the same content in a longer time frame, or you guys will make up for lost time in the next few years.
When one of your biggest fans for The Sims 4 had decided to stop investing in it (me), it rings alarm bells.
I need to know that you guys are going to support it the same, if not more, than 3. Right now I'm concerned there will be like 5 EP's total.
And that's not worth investing in.
I love the work you guys do, but surely, you guys can at least let us know that this 1 EP for the year isn't going to be standard.
Wow, I agree with you for once. Anything can happen.
@SimGuruGraham, thanks for explaining "live service" to us. I have to say that I've noticed that bugs get fixed much more quickly than with TS3, and also that packs seem to fit together better. Personally, I don't mind whether something comes in a game pack, expansion pack, stuff pack or free content (obviously the most desirable), as long as we continue to get good content.
Thank you so much for clearing up the confusion. I was looking through every page trying to see if you had made any comment on the topic; and this helped a lot. Truly appreciate the detailed information. I am sure it can be difficult at times... when messages get "mixed".. and I know we can be frustrating and speculate a lot, and also worry a lot as well; and we tend to read wayyy too much into your messages. But we also just want the best for Sims 4 and we want it to be a success, because I sure as plum know that I want to see a Sims 5.
I know it doesn't seem like it -- and I won't speak for others -- but speaking for myself, just know.. the work you guys do is appreciated. I hope you can understand though at times when we're frantic, it's just because we want to know what's going on with our beloved game. But we understand/don't understand.. =P that at times, you just can't say anything. To us, it's a weird system.... we're not used to this because we used to get leaflet's in our expansion pack boxes with cute/colorful little backgrounds telling us what to expect next... (What the next expansion pack was, etc)... I remember... squealing with excitement every time.. and then going on the forums to "fangirl" over it with all the other Simmer's that were excited... and then planning what I wanted my Sims to do... awww, memories....
So you can kinda (?) understand a little why we get like that, hopefully. *hides*.
But again, thank you very much for this information, while I didn't exactly get the "no expansion packs anymore" from what you were tweeting, it's just nice that it's confirmed that's not what you were saying, because Expansion Packs are the thing I look most forward to. I love game packs, because they're bigger than Stuff Packs, though smaller than Expansion packs, they do add a bit of game play to the game that can hold me over until an expansion pack, here's hoping you guys get it all figured out and get a steady "release" system (I know we're not looking for patterns), it's just... I'd really love to see more expansion packs.
And please, keep bringing on the stuff packs because I've noticed a huge difference since the first one, Luxury party, and they're getting SO much better! ♥ I love that you guys decided to add game-play to them because it does help... even "a little bit" with the lack of expansion packs. I know this isn't the case for everyone, but every game play helps... for me, it's better than 6+ months without anything! IF we didn't have game packs, or stuff packs and just expansion packs, I'd go crazy! lol.
I have faith in you Expansion Pack team! ♥ Please bring us pretty things soon. ;P
So Live Service means delivering updates faster and fixing bugs faster? Isn't that what they're supposed to be doing anyways?
StI'll confused.
I *think* the part that makes it a live service is the things that are getting added within patches, like the gender patch, ghosts, pools, bed monster, etc. I supposed adding things like these in patches every now and then are their way of keeping players engaged, rather than only bug-fixing patches
@KeyserFn
Basically this is what i think he is saying. With TS3 they had two teams (Redwood Shores & Salt Lake) working on EPs and a store team and for the most part they didn't share or integrate assets. This lead to many bugs due to that lack of communication between the teams which lead to bugs often only being fixed when the next packs prerelease patch came around. Each team also had their own schedules to follow as well as budgets so if one team needed more resources the other teams couldn't allocate theirs resources to help them. Now with TS4 all teams (EP team ,GP team ,SP team, and engagement/patch team) are now in one location (Redwood) and because of this they are able to share assets and integrate assets with one another. This also means they can allocate resources amongst all the teams based on which one needs it the most at the time. Because of this improved communication amongst the teams they are able to find bugs and take care of them faster then before. Now due to so many changes this time around they are still in the process of finding a balance which is why past pack patterns are no longer being followed.
I hope this helped.
Now on a side note I like that he mentioned the fact the TS3 had 2 EP teams because a lot of people are getting worried over the fact that we may only get one EP a year now but something to keep in mind is that each team released a pack about once a year so in turn we got two EPs a year in TS3 one from each team. TS4 though has only one EP team so if we only get one EP a year they technically are still following past schedules at least by a one team perpective
so in TS3 because their were two EP teams we got two EPs a year but now with TS4 there is only one that's why we get one a year,make sence.That must've been the case with TS2 because it seemed we got EPS alot during the year then to.To tell you the truth I'd rather get 2 or more a year myself because that's what I'm used to
Free content is great and knowing how they decide is brilliant. but nothing was said about the relationship culling, and as this is so annoying a lot of simmers me included and has such a huge impact on our game I thought something about this would have been mentioned. even a ps by the way were looking into that and should have it sorted in a few days. But nothing was said about it.
I've been playing sims3 most of the day so I didn't read what was going on. But personally instead of free content unless its toddlers I'd rather have the culling removed.
So Live Service means delivering updates faster and fixing bugs faster? Isn't that what they're supposed to be doing anyways?
StI'll confused.
I think that it means patches don't have to be done along with a pack, that they can be done independently of any pack, since I noticed @SimGuruGraham say that since resources can be moved around and packs don't have any set schedule, they're free do implement and make patches without needing a corresponding pack.
Just some random Simmer you probably don't even follow on the gallery! Gallery name's the same as my username! Did I just rhyme there?
Thank you very much for the explanation! I, too, was confused about what was meant by live service. I had never heard it used used with the Sims 4 before and thought it might be something new. I'm glad to know this live service thing isn't as scary as I thought it might be, haha.
Thanks for the clarification! Reading all of that speculation really confused me.
Regarding EP3 I think they are taking the time to make it great, hopefully that is the case, also maybe since it is something truly good (maybe related with something we have been requesting since launch...) they are waiting to announce it at Gamescom, at least that is what I'm thinking, I'm not getting too excited, though.
@KeyserFn
Basically this is what i think he is saying. With TS3 they had two teams (Redwood Shores & Salt Lake) working on EPs and a store team and for the most part they didn't share or integrate assets. This lead to many bugs due to that lack of communication between the teams which lead to bugs often only being fixed when the next packs prerelease patch came around. Each team also had their own schedules to follow as well as budgets so if one team needed more resources the other teams couldn't allocate theirs resources to help them. Now with TS4 all teams (EP team ,GP team ,SP team, and engagement/patch team) are now in one location (Redwood) and because of this they are able to share assets and integrate assets with one another. This also means they can allocate resources amongst all the teams based on which one needs it the most at the time. Because of this improved communication amongst the teams they are able to find bugs and take care of them faster then before. Now due to so many changes this time around they are still in the process of finding a balance which is why past pack patterns are no longer being followed.
I hope this helped.
Now on a side note I like that he mentioned the fact the TS3 had 2 EP teams because a lot of people are getting worried over the fact that we may only get one EP a year now but something to keep in mind is that each team released a pack about once a year so in turn we got two EPs a year in TS3 one from each team. TS4 though has only one EP team so if we only get one EP a year they technically are still following past schedules at least by a one team perpective
I think an example of sharing assets was when they wanted to expand content on Get Together, they pulled some folks from the GP and SP teams, at least that's what I heard, to help out.
The two EP teams (one in California, one in Utah) explains a lot about why there were so many bugs in Sims 3 -- there's a limited amount you can do via Skype and other video-conferencing services, sometimes it helps to have people in the same location to touch base once in a while about what's going on with their projects. And if "live service" means faster responses to bugs (like recently with Dine Out where Sims would end up with multiple spouses) that's definitely a plus.
Check out my Gallery! Origin ID: justme22
Fun must be always -- Tomas Hertl (San Jose Sharks hockey player)
@VentusMatt, the one EP a year was my takeaway also. Multiple stuff packs because they require fewer resources, free content patches, perhaps two game packs, and one expansion pack per year.
I can actually live with that schedule -- and so can my budget. ! big EP a year, a couple of smaller GPs to add some game play, then fill out the year with SPs and free content/special events. I wouldn't mind a return of the Team Trick/Team Treat this October with some new items as prizes.
Check out my Gallery! Origin ID: justme22
Fun must be always -- Tomas Hertl (San Jose Sharks hockey player)
They're probably holding off on news about EP3 until Gamescom, just as they did with Get Together. That's just about a month away. Maybe we'll get something spectacular in this month's patch to keep us occupied (though I'd be happy if they just fixed the over-aggressive relationship decay within inactive played households; I'm leery about playing too many extra households till that's solved).
Check out my Gallery! Origin ID: justme22
Fun must be always -- Tomas Hertl (San Jose Sharks hockey player)
So Live Service means delivering updates faster and fixing bugs faster? Isn't that what they're supposed to be doing anyways?
StI'll confused.
I think that it means patches don't have to be done along with a pack, that they can be done independently of any pack, since I noticed @SimGuruGraham say that since resources can be moved around and packs don't have any set schedule, they're free do implement and make patches without needing a corresponding pack.
That can also mean that they can respond more to short-term events -- for example the egg hunt in Spring or the Trick/Treat challenge last October (which did tie in with the Spooky Stuff release but it could come back this fall with different rewards). And we had the emergency patch shortly after Dine Out to correct the bug that gave Sims multiple spouses; with Sims 3 we'd likely just have to either deal with it or wait for a modder to fix it instead.
There was also the issue of teams being spread out (one in Salt Lake City, one in Redwood Shores) which hindered communication and possibly contributed to some of the bugs. When you add a new feature, it helps to have someone on the outside saying, "Well, if we add this how is it going to affect this feature that we already have in the game?" For example, I'm not sure which pack it was but something broke excavation in World Adventures -- and excavation was a key part of that pack in order to find all the goodies. Another example was when Pets was developed, they came up with dog dig spot spawners which had the side effect of breaking some of the existing gem spawners, making it harder to find some of the rarer (and more lucrative) gems especially. Both of those bugs got fixed by modders well before EA issued a fix...but what if someone had looked at the code and spotted how there could be a problem? That's a big part of debugging...took programming way back when and I always got perfect scores on the debugging tests. (It's like a puzzle in a way, and I've always been good with puzzles like crosswords and cryptograms and such.)
Check out my Gallery! Origin ID: justme22
Fun must be always -- Tomas Hertl (San Jose Sharks hockey player)
Thanks for pulling that curtain back, @SimGuruGraham ! I can imagine similar shifts are happening in a lot of software houses right now. Do you end up sometimes bringing in contractors? (Apologies if this was asked already - I've not read the thread yet.)
EA CREATOR NETWORK MEMBER — Want to be notified of patches, new Broken Mods threads, and urgent Sims 4 news? Follow me at https://www.patreon.com/luthienrising.
Comments
It is a Yes or No answer.
I didnt buy the last SP and GP because I am waiting for an EP, if it is something that I really want I will purchase the previous packs that I did not buy.
But I guess now we have moved to a more critical question whether there will be EPs or not. These game packs and stuff packs are not significant game changers. They can never replace an EP. If there will be no more EPs then we can tell The Sims 4 to rest in peace and move on.
I would think this would be a two edged sword and very challenging. Not only due to how you need to do things differently this time but by trying to keep players engaged (like me) it might have been better ( because of someone like me, lol) I didn't come here every month to find out what is new. Then I wind up not leaving again for awhile. Then next month rinse and repeat. I'm not sure I like this new engagement policy with live service. Sometimes players just want their game and not be bothered (patches) until the next big thing. It's not only an experience for you guys but for some of us. Sometimes, a good thing, sometimes total annoyance. Especially for those who use mods (but I don't). And sometimes find it annoying to have to install yet again another patch. Even if does have free content.
Where you guys say opportunity/challenging/ fun learning experience, I would say headache. And some of us (me) feel the content has been on the very lean side this time. Not sure I like The Sims series this time being a live service. You know it's hard for us to change and most of us who have played all your games expect big EPs with big gameplay on a regular schedule so don't get upset with us when we get restless.
It's been the pattern for many years month after month how we looked forward to, (and knew) what was coming next. Radio silence isn't that much fun for Simmers. We like those good ole days when the next thing was stated on a flyer in the box (All the old games) or big news on TS3's store ad every month. Hey, we love Sims and content and big gameplay. So, it's a huge adjustment to us, too. Some of us feel with this new service we don't get a lot of choices for content so we get really bored especially since the TS4 is also very different in how it plays. Not a bad game, some great things there, but maybe not the favorite with all of us. But found some things enjoyable. Some packs have been very good whether GP or SP and parts of EPs. But I'm still waiting on the amazing which with how content has been scheduled hasn't come my way yet, but some has been very good.
If we are all waiting on something to dazzle us we can't help but sit here and speculate, when we have to remain engaged by coming back every month to see what's new.
But thank you for staying in touch with fans and always explaining stuff to us like you always have.
I recognized the ability to patch issues quickly as a real benefit with the implementation of "live service" but your post reminded me that developers are making adjustments, too. Excerpted from your post:
"Operating as a live service removes a lot of those challenges I described in The Sims 3 for us. We have an expansion team, a game pack team, a stuff pack team, and an engagement team (engagement = the free content in game updates). We all sit together intermingled in the same studio, we develop multiple packs simultaneously between our teams, and our code and assets between those packs are integrated together daily (super important for facilitating simultaneous development of different packs). Some people in the studio even work on a few of those teams at the same time (that's actually one of the major things we've been trying to adjust to and create better development practices for.)"
Teams, plural, sitting together with the ability to integrate codes and assets for packs is a real positive in my book. It also gives me hope that areas of gameplay that I and other simmers have issues with can be tweaked via the patch process to hit a happy medium everyone can live with. Not going to give a specific example/s as this isn't the time or place to do so but I like the idea that a really unpopular gameplay experience doesn't have to be considered set in stone.
Wow, I agree with you for once. Anything can happen.
@SimGuruDrake
@SimGuruGraham
This is a lot more important than you think. It needs to be answered pronto.
Wishing for toddlers as part of this live service.
I know it doesn't seem like it -- and I won't speak for others -- but speaking for myself, just know.. the work you guys do is appreciated. I hope you can understand though at times when we're frantic, it's just because we want to know what's going on with our beloved game. But we understand/don't understand.. =P that at times, you just can't say anything. To us, it's a weird system.... we're not used to this because we used to get leaflet's in our expansion pack boxes with cute/colorful little backgrounds telling us what to expect next... (What the next expansion pack was, etc)... I remember... squealing with excitement every time.. and then going on the forums to "fangirl" over it with all the other Simmer's that were excited... and then planning what I wanted my Sims to do... awww, memories....
So you can kinda (?) understand a little why we get like that, hopefully. *hides*.
But again, thank you very much for this information, while I didn't exactly get the "no expansion packs anymore" from what you were tweeting, it's just nice that it's confirmed that's not what you were saying, because Expansion Packs are the thing I look most forward to. I love game packs, because they're bigger than Stuff Packs, though smaller than Expansion packs, they do add a bit of game play to the game that can hold me over until an expansion pack, here's hoping you guys get it all figured out and get a steady "release" system (I know we're not looking for patterns), it's just... I'd really love to see more expansion packs.
And please, keep bringing on the stuff packs because I've noticed a huge difference since the first one, Luxury party, and they're getting SO much better! ♥ I love that you guys decided to add game-play to them because it does help... even "a little bit" with the lack of expansion packs. I know this isn't the case for everyone, but every game play helps... for me, it's better than 6+ months without anything! IF we didn't have game packs, or stuff packs and just expansion packs, I'd go crazy!
I have faith in you Expansion Pack team! ♥ Please bring us pretty things soon. ;P
StI'll confused.
so in TS3 because their were two EP teams we got two EPs a year but now with TS4 there is only one that's why we get one a year,make sence.That must've been the case with TS2 because it seemed we got EPS alot during the year then to.To tell you the truth I'd rather get 2 or more a year myself because that's what I'm used to
Origin gtgirl1999
twitter @gtgirl_99
Look at it as a positive - they're taking the time to make it awesome!
true!
I've been playing sims3 most of the day so I didn't read what was going on. But personally instead of free content unless its toddlers I'd rather have the culling removed.
Yeah, but what is it??????
I think that it means patches don't have to be done along with a pack, that they can be done independently of any pack, since I noticed @SimGuruGraham say that since resources can be moved around and packs don't have any set schedule, they're free do implement and make patches without needing a corresponding pack.
Regarding EP3 I think they are taking the time to make it great, hopefully that is the case, also maybe since it is something truly good (maybe related with something we have been requesting since launch...) they are waiting to announce it at Gamescom, at least that is what I'm thinking, I'm not getting too excited, though.
I think an example of sharing assets was when they wanted to expand content on Get Together, they pulled some folks from the GP and SP teams, at least that's what I heard, to help out.
The two EP teams (one in California, one in Utah) explains a lot about why there were so many bugs in Sims 3 -- there's a limited amount you can do via Skype and other video-conferencing services, sometimes it helps to have people in the same location to touch base once in a while about what's going on with their projects. And if "live service" means faster responses to bugs (like recently with Dine Out where Sims would end up with multiple spouses) that's definitely a plus.
Fun must be always -- Tomas Hertl (San Jose Sharks hockey player)
I can actually live with that schedule -- and so can my budget.
Fun must be always -- Tomas Hertl (San Jose Sharks hockey player)
They're probably holding off on news about EP3 until Gamescom, just as they did with Get Together. That's just about a month away. Maybe we'll get something spectacular in this month's patch to keep us occupied (though I'd be happy if they just fixed the over-aggressive relationship decay within inactive played households; I'm leery about playing too many extra households till that's solved).
Fun must be always -- Tomas Hertl (San Jose Sharks hockey player)
That can also mean that they can respond more to short-term events -- for example the egg hunt in Spring or the Trick/Treat challenge last October (which did tie in with the Spooky Stuff release but it could come back this fall with different rewards). And we had the emergency patch shortly after Dine Out to correct the bug that gave Sims multiple spouses; with Sims 3 we'd likely just have to either deal with it or wait for a modder to fix it instead.
There was also the issue of teams being spread out (one in Salt Lake City, one in Redwood Shores) which hindered communication and possibly contributed to some of the bugs. When you add a new feature, it helps to have someone on the outside saying, "Well, if we add this how is it going to affect this feature that we already have in the game?" For example, I'm not sure which pack it was but something broke excavation in World Adventures -- and excavation was a key part of that pack in order to find all the goodies. Another example was when Pets was developed, they came up with dog dig spot spawners which had the side effect of breaking some of the existing gem spawners, making it harder to find some of the rarer (and more lucrative) gems especially. Both of those bugs got fixed by modders well before EA issued a fix...but what if someone had looked at the code and spotted how there could be a problem? That's a big part of debugging...took programming way back when and I always got perfect scores on the debugging tests. (It's like a puzzle in a way, and I've always been good with puzzles like crosswords and cryptograms and such.)
Fun must be always -- Tomas Hertl (San Jose Sharks hockey player)