@AdamsEve1231 I've been meaning to pop over here to congratulate you on completing FRWL--and now that it's time for me to make supper, I'm here! LOL!
Seriously--tremendous accomplishment! I love that work so much. I think that, coupled with I&S (and I really do see them as a pair), it's my favorite. Such great character development, and such wonderful journeys!
Hello! I'm back with the next chapter to The Chrysanthemum Tango! And now I have the next three chapters written and screenshotted as well, so all I need is some editing and... then this story arc will be done! I... don't even know how I managed to make it this far and somehow keep my plot even this coherent... if it even is anything resembling coherent.
Chapter 42: Askew The world feels when things are not right. Amelia, Vanja, Novak, and many others feel it too. And it's time to do something about it. Meanwhile, Tad and Emily have their own battles to fight.
I hope you guys enjoy and have a lovely time.
My Sims stories: The Fey of Life - fairytales in life are few and far between (Forum thread HERE) The Chrysanthemum Tango - a story about life, death, magic, and how to be a good landlady (Forum thread HERE) Forget-Me-Not - some things just refuse to stay buried; an Ambrosia Challenge story (Forum thread HERE)
I found the bit about tragedies really interesting. Because you guys know the just world theory, right? Where people assume that nothing bad will ever happen to them if they follow the rules and conform, and if bad things happen to other people it's their fault because they didn't follow the rules. It's a worldview that leads to victim-blaming and retraumatizing people and injustice and horrible things.
In the bit on tragedies, the author says that tragedies are a way to get people out of that mindset, and to remind them that bad things can happen to anyone at any time, and that maybe they should have more compassion for people in bad circumstances. He uses Greek tragedies as examples, specifically Oedipus, and he talks about how tragic heroes are human, with good qualities that got them to the heights they're at at the beginning of the story, but they also have some not so good qualities that aren't really bad, but just normal and human, things that the audience can identify with, and those qualities do contribute to their downfall but so do random circumstances and luck and the actions of other people and all that kind of thing.
I've read a few studies about how reading literature increases empathy, and both of those examples show ways that it can do that.
Do you guys have anyone in your stories who you hope readers might learn to empathize with more?
I know that with Seth, it was gratifying to watch people go from flat out hating him in Valley to identifying with him and understanding him in 10.
On @MedleyMisty's empathy question... finally getting an opportunity to respond to this...
I like tragic hero stories. I think there's a lot of truth to this concept that people should have more compassion for those in bad circumstances because it could've happened to them. Sometimes the world is just a dark, angry place and things just happen because of this.
I like highly flawed characters. I think they are infinitely more interesting. I would describe Kass as one, and Gage is also. Personally, a lot of my readers like Gage, I know, but not so many like Kass. I had a hard time with this one initially, but then I learned to embrace it and it fueled my desire to continue staying true to who Kass is. I'll say more on that in a minute.
One of my favorite tragic heros is a character named Londo Mollari in a television sci-fi show called Babylon 5. The show takes place in the mid-2200s on a space station, built by Earth, known as Babylon 5. The show intersects many alien cultures and races and deals with big issues such as discrimination, classicism, racism, religion/faith, politics, sexism, war, poverty, power, etc. on an inter-galactic scale. Earth is at the center of everything, with B-5 serving as a gathering place for commerce, diplomacy, and scientific discovery.
First of all, the writer, J. Michael Straczynski did an incredible job weaving a meta-narrative, a glorious story arc over five seasons, which at the time (early 90s) was unheard of, and now it's quite common in our television shows. Secondly, Londo is an arrogant, obnoxious, cruel man at times, but Straczynski does such a subtle, yet fabulous job of weaving his back story in and out of the plot, and also he is often forced to choose the lesser of two evils, both of which are still evil. He is faced with impossible choices and his politicking gets him into serious trouble and has massive universal consequences, and yet, as a viewer, I still feel pity and sympathy for him.
Straczynski also writes another character, Alfred Bester, whom I love to hate and hate to love, a high level officer of a policing force known as the Psi Corps (telepaths). He is so good at his job, and he's a sarcastic, intelligent, and ruthless man, but I have to enjoy watching his character unfold because he is so good at being bad... and he has a rare moment or two that invokes sympathy. In the Babylon 5 (B-5) universe, characters are often victims of their culture and circumstances, and of governments making decisions on their behalf. One of my favorite characters, John Sheridan, the captain of B5, says words that have stuck with me permanently - "Governments operate on matters of convenience, not conscience."
I digress. My point is I empathize with even the worst of Straczynski's characters because they are real, and they are real because they are flawed. They have real problems and real emotions, real passions and drives, and they operate on a grand scale making decisions for real people that have real consequences. Not everyone survives. Good guys don't always beat bad guys, and even when they do, 1) there is either bigger, badder guys out there, and 2) there is serious fall-out - people suffer from massive guilt and PTSD, people transfer to different jobs, people get demoted, and people die. All this being said, the real world is like this too... maybe not on quite a massive scale since we currently don't have an intergalactic playing field, but the real world faces these kinds of things every day.
In one episode, Delenn, one of the alien race ambassadors, speaks to the captain regarding a dying, isolated, frightened alien population and requests entrance to their quarantined space. The captain says they aren't her kind, which she responds, "I did not realize similarity was required for the exercise of compassion."
This speaks volumes to me. Compassion should be granted to all regardless of their social identities (i.e. race, class, gender, religion, etc.). We should be embracing our differences instead of squabbling over them. People are generally frightened of that which they do not understand, but if they take the time to understand, to feel compassion, to recognize the humanity in everyone, we might have a better world.
I digressed again... but my point is, compassion and empathy are crucial to our world. Do I wish more people would empathize with Kassiopeia? Yes. I do. Because I see merit in her and I know her heart and her back story and all the invisible factors weighing in on her life. I recognize not everyone will love her like I do, but I do feel a strong desire to help people understand she is a flawed human who makes serious mistakes with very real consequences, but she is also capable of incredible strength, growth, and compassion.
Maybe she's just not there yet... and the key is "yet." I think some of my readers are frustrated because they want her to be there now. They want her to be likable immediately. They want to relate to her instantly. I might imagine this is why some people do not like Seth at times, @MedleyMisty, but I see merit there. I see an intriguing, incredibly complex character, worthy of love and compassion, who makes real mistakes with real consequences. This is why I appreciate Seth.
I like to challenge people, and to challenge myself to write a lovable character who is often unlikable, and it takes awhile to see past her flaws. I hope people will stick with me through the process.
Okay, I wrote more than I expected, so I will talk about the other questions/responses in another post.
Hi! Okay, guys, this is really random and not well-timed at all, but I can explain. @AdamsEve1231 and I had a brief conversation about Christmas songs in the comments of one of her festive Christmas-themed chapters, and she requested that I linked some Finnish Christmas songs somewhere. So here's a few Finnish Christmas songs:
First of all let's get this out of the way: Yes, we do have happy songs for Christmas, and some are even originals and not just translations of foreign, happy Christmas songs. There's songs such as Joulumaa ("Christmasland"), which is all about finding the Christmas spirit in one's own heart. However, here Christmas is largely about peace and quiet (and often family too), and what's a better way to achieve peace and quiet than through really sad songs? So who cares about happiness when you can let darkness and cold be your muse and let good old winter depression reign free instead.
My favourite Christmas song is Varpunen jouluaamuna, and I even found a video with an okay English translation to the lyrics! That song's origin is a sad one. It's originally a poem (the original poem is in Swedish) written by Zachris Topelius, a very well-known Finnish writer. He wrote it probably as a part of his grieving for his son Rafael, who passed away as a one-year-old.
Also for something slightly more familiar, how about the Finnish version of Walking in the Air? You know, the song from the animated film The Snowman? Also in the video I linked to we see a more modern Christmas tradition: heavy metal singers (well, Johanna Kurkela isn't a metal singer, but the others in the video are) singing in Christmas concerts! It's been a thing for years now and it's awesome!
Okay, I think I'll leave it at that. I hope I didn't ruin anyone's summer days by talking about a wintry holiday.
Hello @RipuAncestor I totally listened to the songs and then never commented here. I liked the first one - it felt very festive and Christmas-y, but different from what I'm accustomed to.
The language is pretty in the second song, and I loved the repetition and patterns and high notes. It made me want to sway and dance... but I don't dance very rhythmically or we'll just say I dance when no one's watching. I could picture the scene in my head between the sparrow and the little girl as I listened. It tugged at my heart strings.
The last song made me want to sing in choir again. We used to sing songs in different languages. I recall Hebrew, German, Latin, Italian, Spanish, French, and a handful of others... but now I think we should totally add Finnish to our repertoire.
I like the concept of quiet and peace at Christmas instead of busyness and festivity constantly. Winter is a great time to embrace the cold and dark. I like this one sad song by Josh Groban - February Song, which isn't a Christmas song, but a winter one, and it makes me feel wistful and introspective. I'm waiting to find a perfect chapter to include this song in one of my stories.
So, I wanted to come back to our conversation about Kass, @AdamsEve1231 . These most recent two chapter you posted, the music festival chapters, do such a good job of illustrating something I noticed about Kass from the first. I think before, the best way I could describe this was "She's stuck in her head." But these two chapters really illustrate what specifically stands out to me about her during this particular era of her life (ages 18-21).
In the chapter from Gage's point of view, we see that
Kass is very uncomfortable with Ethan's song. It's so clear in all of her body language--her body is picking up on the danger and the ickiness of it all. And Gage is aware of it. (Which makes me wonder why he'd leave her there in the park to go to the 7-11...)
I'm not sure Gage was fully thinking. I want to say I have a better answer, but it was needed for the plot. I think he maybe brushed it off thinking she would be okay with her new friends.
But then in the chapter from Kass's point of view,
Kass seems consciously completely unaware of all the signals that her body is sending her about the danger and creepiness of the situation.
This split between body-awareness/intuition/felt sense and conscious awareness is very poignant--and it seems to be a very key aspect of how Kass operates at this time. We often see her move into situations that her body and intuition are raising all sorts of red flags. In some cases, she's aware of these feelings, but she rationalizes her way out of listening to them. In other instances, she seems very cut-off from her body--so that her body says one thing, but her conscious mind can't hear it, and she is, currently, ruled by her conscious mind, so her body's wisdom, warnings, and messages get shut out.
This is so realistic! I think it happens to a lot of people--certainly to a lot of young women, and, likely, to most people who have experienced trauma.
I'm reading some of Peter Levine's books on trauma right now (In An Unspoken Voice and Trauma and Memory). Levine's entire approach towards healing from trauma is through developing sensitive awareness of the body's messages and sensation--to reform the integrated sense that allows wholeness and fosters true wisdom.
Kass obviously has a very keen, sensitive, astute and alive body--and the unspoken voice of her body informs her intuition, which is very strong. Currently, Kass is cut-off from this wisdom and this whole sense of aliveness. Yet the potential that is there is amazing. She has a rough road ahead to reach that type of integration that will allow her deep wisdom and connection with life to penetrate all of her being. But I also feel that she'll get there and that this is one road worth taking! (OK--so this is my own personal bias and perspective, and may not fit at all with the arc and life-course you have set out for Kass. Certainly, many people remain cut-off through their lives and never heal from trauma or PTSD. Yet healing is always available: And as my own drive is towards healing and wholeness, that's the direction my imagination takes me in when I look at Kass's future. Your imagination and the story you want to tell may lead down other paths--which is why reading is so much fun!)
Anyway, I was very grateful for these two chapters since they allowed me to understand the processes at work in Kass and what keeps her turning towards danger.
This is an accurate assessment of Kass. She is often ignores her body's warning signs, and I think this is partly because she doesn't know her own body and spirit and mind very well, partly because she doesn't trust herself, and partly because she was never taught how to tune into her body. Kass is incredibly intuitive and aware, if only she would trust and listen to herself. I think many young adults are probably like this, still trying to figure out themselves and the world, and knowing how and when to listen to their guts, to tune into their hearts, to recognize tension in their bodies, and understand their minds. This is a lifelong lesson for me, and something I'm exploring in my writing.
As I wrote on my blog, Kass doesn't know how to process things. If there are too many things tugging at her attention, she doesn't know how to cope, to sort out what is best for her to focus on in the moment, and what she needs to set aside for now. She gets overwhelmed easily, and this makes her feel backed into a corner. This is why she is often harsh when she speaks because she says the first thing that's on her mind. Typically, it's to protect herself, and shield herself from unwanted emotions or attentions. Her feelings are valid but she needs to take the time to dig deeper and understand why she feels the way she does and then think about the best way to convey this to others. She also needs to learn to trust her instincts and when something doesn't feel right, she needs to get out of there. I think this is partly because Kass wants to think she can handle herself, and partly because she doesn't feel comfortable in her own body. She often lets fear dictate her emotions and reactions and choices - fear of being misunderstood, fear of not being accepted, fear of what commitment and love truly look like, fear of pain and rejection, and the list goes on. When forced to make a quick decision, Kass typically goes with an emotional response rather than a rational or logical one, and this gets her into serious trouble. There is real fall-out from her choices, and definite consequences, for better or worse.
Kass' family history plays a huge role in why she is the way she is. I have already shared some things, and you probably remember some from the chapters themselves, but all I can say is there's a lot more to discover about Kass. I am a big believer in healing and I have suffered from PTSD (ooo... I'm getting real here)... so I know how long the road to recovery is. Most stories start with the recovery. I am starting with the context. I am starting the hard way, and challenging myself to walk through the pain and the struggles with Kass because I think it's important for my readers to understand the why. Unfortunately, I think that means alienating readers sometimes because Kass is unlikable. But that's part of what makes her exciting for me... because it's a challenge... and because I have said the wrong things and made the wrong choices and ignored my gut before and I know what that feels like. I also feel like this helps me set up an incredible opportunity for growth and healing. Kass has a long way to go but I hope my readers hang in there with me.
@AdamsEve1231 Glad you liked the songs. I decided not to spam you guys with too many songs... especially the depressing ones. A lot of our Christmas songs seem to be about dead relatives.
And thanks for sharing the February Song. It was nice.
And since we're sharing music... I guess I'll keep going with it: for the last... I don't know, many chapters of Tango, I've used Riverside's (they're an awesome prog band from Poland) Love, Fear and the Time Machine -album as my inspirational background music for writing A LOT of the time. So I figured I'd share this happy song from that album.
My Sims stories: The Fey of Life - fairytales in life are few and far between (Forum thread HERE) The Chrysanthemum Tango - a story about life, death, magic, and how to be a good landlady (Forum thread HERE) Forget-Me-Not - some things just refuse to stay buried; an Ambrosia Challenge story (Forum thread HERE)
My Sims stories: The Fey of Life - fairytales in life are few and far between (Forum thread HERE) The Chrysanthemum Tango - a story about life, death, magic, and how to be a good landlady (Forum thread HERE) Forget-Me-Not - some things just refuse to stay buried; an Ambrosia Challenge story (Forum thread HERE)
man! This chapter was just SOOOO awesome, @RipuAncestor ! So much happened! So many amazing moments! I think I'll refrain from saying much about it because I'm still holding my breath to see what happens next!
man! This chapter was just SOOOO awesome, @RipuAncestor ! So much happened! So many amazing moments! I think I'll refrain from saying much about it because I'm still holding my breath to see what happens next!
if you hold your breath you will pass out then you won't know what happens next.
man! This chapter was just SOOOO awesome, @RipuAncestor ! So much happened! So many amazing moments! I think I'll refrain from saying much about it because I'm still holding my breath to see what happens next!
Thanks! I'll try to get my next chapter edited and published soon.
man! This chapter was just SOOOO awesome, @RipuAncestor ! So much happened! So many amazing moments! I think I'll refrain from saying much about it because I'm still holding my breath to see what happens next!
if you hold your breath you will pass out then you won't know what happens next.
Hehe, good one!
My Sims stories: The Fey of Life - fairytales in life are few and far between (Forum thread HERE) The Chrysanthemum Tango - a story about life, death, magic, and how to be a good landlady (Forum thread HERE) Forget-Me-Not - some things just refuse to stay buried; an Ambrosia Challenge story (Forum thread HERE)
man! This chapter was just SOOOO awesome, @RipuAncestor ! So much happened! So many amazing moments! I think I'll refrain from saying much about it because I'm still holding my breath to see what happens next!
Thanks! I'll try to get my next chapter edited and published soon.
man! This chapter was just SOOOO awesome, @RipuAncestor ! So much happened! So many amazing moments! I think I'll refrain from saying much about it because I'm still holding my breath to see what happens next!
if you hold your breath you will pass out then you won't know what happens next.
Hi! My updating spree continues for a bit longer. Here's the second to last chapter to The Chrysanthemum Tango (or at least to its first story arc):
Chapter 44: Trial and Error Tad has to face the consequences of his adventure. He’s not the only one who ends up facing things. Sometimes both help and enemies can come from surprising places.
I hope you guys enjoy and have a lovely time!
My Sims stories: The Fey of Life - fairytales in life are few and far between (Forum thread HERE) The Chrysanthemum Tango - a story about life, death, magic, and how to be a good landlady (Forum thread HERE) Forget-Me-Not - some things just refuse to stay buried; an Ambrosia Challenge story (Forum thread HERE)
So most of you already know, I have a new-ish series (since I've already written 2 chapters), called La Vita Bella. It follows the life of Bella Bachelor Goth, and the years leading up to her disappearance, with some connections to other famous Sims and crossover with my other stories. I'm excited to be writing and I've been on a roll with chapters lately, feeling inspired after finishing Gage's story.
Brownie points if you can guess who is who above...
So I have a question for the circle... how do you make a villain likable? Or maybe your story doesn't have a villain but perhaps it has an unlikable character for one reason or another. How do you generate sympathy for this character? How do you redeem a villain? How do you help your readers invest in a character with unlikable traits?
I don't know about likeable, but I'd at least give some understandable motivation behind their villainy. For example, the assistants in Chronicles part 1:
Technically speaking, the four of them aren't really villains, simply a group of people being manipulated by some humanoid abomination. Of course, one of them, Horse-face, steers more toward the villainous side than the others.
This is because of all of them, he is the only one who has done something truly horrific to another person (in this instance, his companion). The thing is, said horrific act was not of his volition. Horse-face himself was also being used, in a matter of speaking.
Several times, it's stated that his companion despises the man who was controlling them both, but he could never despise Horse-Face himself; In his eyes, Horse-Face was being used as much as he was.
Now, this does not excuse the awful, awful things that Horse-Face's companion was put through, and by no means did I intend for Horse-Face to truly be sympathetic, even during his moments of lamentations and attempting to atone for his past actions. What I was trying to show that, long story short: Yes, he committed a most vile act. No, he isn't proud that he did it. (Not that that stops The Builder from constantly rubbing it in his face)
If anything, he's surprised that his companion doesn't hate him, when he has every right to. He even agrees with Annette whenever she tells him what an awful person he is.
TL;DR: Horse-Face was meant to be ultimately on the side of good, but had committed a criminal act that he still blames himself for (since it was not of his own choice), and isn't meant to really be a likeable character due to this.
I doubt this really answered your question, but that's what I had to say.
And, Art Commune buddies... I've got a new chapter of my Murkland story. I think this is the story that's for this circle, right? If not... you might enjoy reading it anyway for a few Art Commune Circle tie-ins...
Tie-in #1 - My SimSelf (who is ostensibly the author of this Murkland story) is writing to @MedleyMisty 's SelfSelf in the Author's Notes! How fun is that!
And
Tie-in #2 has to do with a very special appearance in the next chapter and two chapters after that... and when you see who it is, I think you'll smile! (Plus the writing of those two chapters is going to be a very special collaboration with said Simmer of said special character! )
Its funny how people expect a villain in a story.
But if there a way they might change their character? Or make amends?
Either that or perhaps there is a reason behind their ... character. Bad past, rebellious etc ... You can create a chapter that could explain their side of things.
@AdamsEve1231 I have noticed that the Sims community is much more forgiving of faults in male characters than it is in female characters. So I'm not surprised that people like Gage more than Kass.
Putting the rest of this in a spoiler because it's weird and meandering.
I'll admit that harsh judgement is really really hard for me to deal with. After my experiences in the Bad Times, I feel really really uncomfortable around people who judge others harshly and who make negative comments about others, and I've found that this extends to fiction too. Sims stories where characters gossip and judge others make my guts twist. Literally, since the stress of the Bad Times led to the ulcer that almost killed me.
So I do have a hard time reading characters saying harsh things or judging or gossiping or just in general not respecting the selves of others. Although I was surprised by how people saw Seth as more abrasive than I thought he was when I started writing his letters. I am completely self-taught when it comes to social skills (seriously, you should meet my family), so whatever he's missing I'm missing too.
I think, thinking about it...the judgement thing...like I can't pin it down to exact rules. It's probably really just anything that my brain interprets as being like the Bad Times that sets it off. And I'm sure that someone could stalk through my personal blog and find plenty of incidences of me being a hypocrite and judging others, and I'm sure that someone will do that and that they will then go talk about it with everyone in public. At least now I know to stay very far away from anyone who engages in that sort of thing or anyone who interacts with anyone who engages in that sort of thing, and to never give them any benefit of any doubts. When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time, not two years later when you're bleeding to death.
I guess, about the flaws...
I tend to not like talking about it in terms of faults and flaws. Possibly because of the aforementioned Bad Times. Also though I think because I don't understand where that view of things is coming from. Like I would never actually watch Game of Thrones or read the books because massive triggers (I did actually try to start the books once, and that was a mistake), but for some reason the last week or so I've been reading a lot of analysis of the TV show, and some of the essays mention flaws, and I don't think I get the basic idea that they're working from.
I guess, like....
What would a "not flawed" character look like? I personally think that it would be different for everyone. Like, okay, for me, my two unforgivable things are hurting a member of a species other than 🐸🐸🐸🐸 sapiens, and judging and gossiping about others. I have learned enough about humans now to know that most other people have a very different list of unforgivable sins, and that actually there's lots of humans out there who would consider my strong emotional reactions to fictional accounts of members of other species being purposefully hurt by humans or humans talking about others in a judging dehumanizing way to be huge glaring flaws, to the point of needing to spend eight years stalking me, screenshotting my personal posts, and sharing them in public on hate blogs to point out these huge glaring flaws of mine to everyone else. But I guess it's an eternal circle of flawedness, because anyone who does that, or who enjoys watching it happen to others, has just committed one of my unforgivable sins, and now I think of them as having a huge glaring flaw.
So who defines what a flawed character is, and what a not-flawed character is? Who defines what is a flaw? Where is this universal template of not-flawed that other people received and that they're using when they talk about flawed characters and why didn't I receive it?
Actually, thinking about it, and you know what those two things that I consider unforgivable flaws have in common? Not seeing other living beings as real, and hurting them because they're not real to you. And not because of any understandable previous back story that would have reasonably led to that behavior, and that I might be able to understand even if it is hard or impossible for me to read, but just...I don't know. Because it's what the cool kids do, or because you like hurting others, or for social status, or because you're just that self-absorbed that you don't even see other living beings as real and you don't care what happens to them as a result of the choices that you made to hurt them.
But that's what I see as a flaw. To the point that not only am I unable to like a character who displays that behavior, but I am also extremely likely to stop reading the story and also to probably feel really uncomfortable for quite some time after reading it and also probably avoid the author.
I also don't get why it should matter if I like a character or not. Or why it should matter if anyone who chooses to read my stuff likes my characters. If I wrote with an idea that other people should like what I write, I would be extremely lost, because I don't know enough about other humans to know what they would like.
Well, I do know enough to know that none of them like precisely the same things, so if I wrote with the intention of making some humans like my characters, it's a certainty that other humans would hate both my characters and me. So is it just a question of which humans you want to like your characters, and which humans you don't mind having hate your characters? But then you'd have to do a lot of market research, to figure out who sees what as a flaw and who dislikes what and who likes what. I mean, like, if you have me but you also have someone who thinks that other species don't matter and that caring about other species is silly and wrong, and that other humans should be harshly judged and shamed in public for, I don't even know, showing any sort of emotion or vulnerability, then who are you going to please?
Or to bring in PTSD (which, yes, I know I have a great whopping case of it) and to go back to the Game of Thrones analysis - there are plenty of people who see having PTSD as a flaw, and there are also people who see not being understanding of PTSD as a flaw, and then there are probably some people in the middle, like the types who think that it is a real thing but that it only applies to people who were in the military, and if anyone else says that they were traumatized then you should probably judge them and shame them in public and get all self-righteous and gossipy and judgmental and hateful with your friends about who does this person think they are, saying that they were traumatized by anything other than being an active combatant in a socially approved war? Because nothing else that happens to humans could possibly be traumatizing.
So if you have a character with PTSD and you have another character berate that character for having PTSD, who's the flawed one? Who's unlikable?
Which unlikable is such a harsh word. I don't like it at all. (LOL, I was just rereading and noticed what I did there.)
For me personally, I hate judging others and I hate the idea that a person could be permanently isolated and cast out. LOL, it's almost like I have a past of pretty severe trauma surrounding that topic! So I'm not going to declare someone unlikable until they show that they consider others unlikable. Which I guess that's a flaw of mine, dehumanizing people who dehumanize others, but I'll own it. I know that I want to empathize with everyone and make everyone feel welcome and be nice to everyone, but the second someone dehumanizes another or harshly judges another or goes to a hate blog, that person is gone. Usually permanently.
I used to not be like that, until I learned that not judging and not assuming and trying your best to be accepting and understanding could lead to a shattered self-esteem, a lack of trust in your own perceptions after years of gaslighting and an inability to trust most other people after years of anonymous stalking, and a hemorrhaging ulcer if you weren't careful. So, personally, if I were a character that I was judging, I'd say that I have an understandable back story for my actions. But if it was people who are into judging and gossip and hate blogs judging me as a character, well, they'd say all sorts of nasty things about me, and they'd definitely find me unlikable.
I guess that if I have a point besides trying to express how unsafe I feel here, it's that flaws are in the eye of the beholder. Although there does seem to be some agreed upon template that I don't have access to? But even then, the template would just be based on what's considered flaws in the eyes of the dominant social group.
So I just write my characters, and things happen, and I don't worry my pretty little weak trauma-riddled biased ignorant human brain about flaws or likability. I write what comes through my fingers, and other people can like it or not. I would ask that if they don't like it, then they have the decency to either go find something else to read that they do like or that they bring up their concerns with me in private and under a real username, but I know that's not going to happen and that instead they're going to stalk me and screenshot my posts and anonymously insult me in public. Because humans are gonna human, and we all have weak biased ignorant brains, and also I think a much higher percentage of those brains are trauma-riddled than we'll admit, and things that some people somewhere would consider flaws are an inescapable part of the whole being human deal. If you write it, the flaws will come, because they can't do otherwise.
@rednenemon You make a good point about doing things outside of control, or because someone is forced to do something they don't want to for a variety of reasons (i.e. they don't know better and it's a person in authority forcing them, or out of fear for their life or for pain or consequences to themselves if they don't do something they don't want to, or out of fear if they don't follow through because they don't know what they would do otherwise and don't feel they have any options or perhaps because they're under the influence of some kind of mind control or a mind altering substance like drugs or alcohol). Self-preservation is pretty powerful motivation.
@xJojox brought this up too... A bad past or history might have corrupted thought processes or may seriously influence actions. As I've grown older, I recognize things in my life are a certain way because of things that happened to me as a child, teen, and young adult. This doesn't excuse poor behavior, but sometimes my reactions to things have been almost involuntary, a gut reaction based on conditioning.
I can't remember the exact psychological term for this, and I tried googling it but couldn't find much or exactly what I was looking for - but we were discussing in one of my classes recently that your first reaction is a gut reaction based on how you were raised, conditioned, and what you have been taught, and your second reaction is what you actually want to do, think, believe, and say.
The first is pretty powerful because it is your gut instinct to protect your beliefs regardless of whether they are acceptable or not because the brain is wired to react defensively to things that are different from or challenge your beliefs. We humans don't like to be wrong or questioned because it is simply easier to accept things at face value. This doesn't mean your gut reaction is bad, and there could be a million things that could help you justify why you react the way you do (see above my examples with @rednenemon).
However the second is often necessary because you take the time to think through your choices and your reactions, and you challenge your brain to consider other options and give them equal consideration and merit.
One of our guest speakers during my recent masters capstone trip said,
"We all have bias - shortcuts in our brains. These shortcuts are there because we need to survive. The quicker you can process, the better you'll survive. But we need to challenge our perceptions and thoughts daily in order to thrive in society. We need to make space for new pathways, new ways of thinking."
I love that because the first and second reactions mean the difference between surviving and thriving. We can simply choose to survive and make snap judgments or quick assessments, (and there is a time and place for this, so don't get me wrong, I think it's okay to do this at times such as in an emergency or a situation where we are otherwise threatened) or we can choose to think critically and challenge our own biases and question our own prejudices.
Okay this is getting long, so the rest is under spoilers.
I think one awesome thing about those of us in this circle is that we do take the time to think beyond, and to consider, question, challenge, and to process. It's evident in our writing and our conversations here. I don't particularly care for most forms of general entertainment out there (not to say I don't indulge ever... when I'm sick, all I want to watch is something I can numb out too... because it hurts too much to think and I need a short-cut) because I actually do like reading and watching things that make me think and question and challenge me to step outside the box, and frankly, that's not the mainstream, and probably never will be.
Writing is a way to process things that I'm thinking and feeling or things I have experienced or seen or heard or wondered about. I am a big believer in story. Everyone has a story. Even those who do unlikable things... actually... transitioning... I like what @MedleyMisty said about not liking the word unlikable. The things someone does may be unlikable, but they are still human, and it's easy to strip away their humanity by looking at them in a one-dimensional way with a label - unlikable... or insert another word of your choice... and after hearing that guest speaker who spoke to my class, I realized what it is we do when we slap labels on people and make judgments... we are creating short-cuts which in turn create bias. So I am convinced humans can be lazy and this is what causes us to avoid taking the longer pathway, to take the time to understand and to converse. If we took the time to try and understand, we might judge each other less, and might actually open up new pathways.
@AdamsEve1231 I have noticed that the Sims community is much more forgiving of faults in male characters than it is in female characters. So I'm not surprised that people like Gage more than Kass.
@MedleyMisty I've noticed this too. I have a variety of thoughts on this and why this is. Interestingly enough, we were also discussing this in my class recently about how women tend to judge women more harshly than they judge men. Being a woman instead of a man, I'm automatically at a disadvantage because I am not male.
Even in the 21st century, even in 2017, women face more prejudice than men, and if you have another social identifier (i.e. Ability (physical and mental). Age. Ethnicity. Race. Religion. Sexual Orientation.) that does not fit the mainstream norm, these identifiers stack against you. But instead of competing with one another, women should be more tolerant and embrace one another and support one another, you would think, right?
We posited a variety of reasons for why women might judge women more harshly - 1) because we are attempting to compete with one another, 2) because we think our sex should be better or do better, 3) because we are desperately trying to fit into a socially contrived norm against our better judgment, etc. The list went on.
That got me thinking about the judgment that happens in the Sims community too. I suppose people judge that which they don't understand, and that which is different, because it's easier that way, and it requires less effort and thinking, and because they want to be seen as normal and anything atypical or abnormal or different or unique must automatically be wrong because it goes against what they know and believe and think and feel... but and this is a big BUT... that doesn't make it right to judge and that doesn't mean that the atypical, abnormal, and the different are wrong.
I wonder if people judge Kass differently because she is female and Gage is male. Gage is just as judgmental and harsh, insensitive and self-centered as Kass, but he is judged differently for it (At least from the way people comment about him). Not saying that neither of them have redeemable qualities. It seems human nature to zero in on what we don't like and forget about what we like. Kass may be those things too, but she can also be deeply introspective and curious and she does try to give people the benefit of the doubt most of the time and she does care about others.
I also wonder if people give Gage a pass because he had such a hard life and Kass has her own difficulties but not in the same way. She has her family and grandparents and they have money, whereas Gage has truly struggled to fit in and has bounced around to many different families and places, some of which were honestly terrible for him. However, Kass has her own demons she struggles with and her own difficulties and while I have tried to illustrate this, I'm not sure I've always done the best job. Some of it may also be I feel my writing quality has improved since I started writing SimLit. I started first with Kass and then wrote Gage, and my level of writing was different, and I would argue, better than when I started so Gage may have just gotten a better back story and better development around his reasons for his choices.
Sometimes I have to think about things before I know what it is I actually want to say or how I should have responded to something, so I want to say this now that I'm on the subject... @CathyTea I know you mentioned how you didn't feel sorry for Kass at the end of FRWL. I first want to say I appreciate your honesty, and I wasn't exactly trying to elicit sympathy, merely to explain some of where she was coming from. I secondly want to say I respect your opinions and your thoughts.
That being said, coming to Kass' defense... and her reasons... (which I'm putting under spoilers since not everyone is caught up)
...for not staying with Gage...
1) at the start of KFLL, she is single, so evidently she couldn't have stayed with Gage forever since I&S and FRWL happen between KCLKF and KFLL,
2) Kass has just come out of a bad relationship with Billy where she didn't know where she stood and he used her, so she's a bit shell-shocked from that,
3) Ethan just attempted to 🐸🐸🐸🐸 Kass so she's still recovering from this also and didn't really have a chance to think and process and feel from that experience fully before she and Gage decided to go for it and before he found out about Natalya,
4) She has a tendency to be impulsive which is probably why she jumped into a relationship with Gage and some of this is because she wanted, needed, and craved comfort... Gage is familiar and he cares about her deeply and she knows that and acknowledges that, and sometimes it's nice just to be cared for, but
5) Kass also realizes she cannot string him along and it's unfair to him and she really needs to process and deal with her own traumas and emotions and thoughts before she is ready to date and be anyone's girlfriend so she was actually doing the best thing, even if it was painful for Gage, and
6) Kass' history very much informs who she is, and you'll see more of that as I continue writing (and that's all I'll say because I don't want to give too much away),
7) Kass is very much concerned about what is right in front of her, and honestly, right now she's focused on her dad, and she feels she cannot give time to dating when she is still trying to process her father's condition and his health (since he doesn't have anyone but her taking care of his) and her own and the potential effects EXCES will have on her future, and
8) Kass is still not over Davis. She jumped into a relationship with Billy to distract her from the pain of hurting Davis and her father's condition worsening, and she jumped into a relationship with Gage to avoid processing the stuff with Billy, Ethan, and her dad, and she finally recognizes this in herself and how she needs to process a whole plum lot about her life before she's ready for the next steps.
I say all that with grace and love because honestly, you are all entitled to your own opinions, and I respect that right. I also understand that Kass can be very unlikable at times, but she can also be likable too, I'd argue, but as @MedleyMisty said "like" is in the eye of the beholder. Kass is very easily suffering from PTSD, and @MedleyMisty I agree with you that they should seriously broaden that term to include way more things than just military service. I had a classmate once say, "All of life is traumatic." There's a whole plum ton of things that happen to us all that can be painful and difficult and traumatic, and humans need to be more gracious and kind to one another because we've all gone through 🐸🐸🐸🐸 at one point or another.
I had to grow up and move away from my family to understand that things really are different in the world out there, and that different doesn't mean wrong. I grew up in a pretty strict religious judgmental family, but I had no idea how much so until I left. And that's probably why Kass is missing certain things in this juncture of her life, like @MedleyMisty said about Seth, because she is still discovering the world too, and herself, and is just now starting to question the things she's been taught to think and believe. It's impossible for me to write a character without flaws because every human has flaws but some of us just have more obvious ones than others. And Kass is deeply flawed, but that's what makes her authentic to me.
Whew! Long response. Thanks for your patience with my wordiness. I appreciate all of you and all your thoughts irregardless of whether we agree, and I'm glad we don't, because that helps me form new pathways.
I'm really liking this conversation. I don't have much to say to it right now, as my slightly feverish brain isn't working that sharply right now, and in general I also don't think I'm that great at writing villains... Some of my stories have some characters that could be called villains, but most of the time it's just characters that do things and live lives and sometimes act in ways that hurt others or have a different set of morals for varying reasons.
But I just wanted to say that you guys have great and insightful points, and I'm glad that the conversation in this circle has been revived.
My Sims stories: The Fey of Life - fairytales in life are few and far between (Forum thread HERE) The Chrysanthemum Tango - a story about life, death, magic, and how to be a good landlady (Forum thread HERE) Forget-Me-Not - some things just refuse to stay buried; an Ambrosia Challenge story (Forum thread HERE)
@CathyTea I wanted to apologize. I don't want it to seem like I was singling you out in my last comment because there are others who have made similar comments to me about Kass. She isn't the most easy character to understand and many of her actions are unlikable at times. We were talking about trauma before and how Kass processes it so that was still in my head as I wrote my above post as trauma is related. Also you asked about Gage
and why he left her at the park after he sensed something being off with Ethan... and I had another thought. Have you ever had a thought about something being off and ignored it because you didn't want to offend someone, assume you are making a bigger deal about something than you should, or you don't want to appear over protective or smothering? I think Kass does this a lot, and Gage did in that chapter too.
But back to the matter at hand, of course, I want people to like my characters, because I spend a lot of time creating them and loving them, but I also understand not everyone is in my head. I don't expect people to "get" Kass like I do. Honestly I appreciate people's pushback because it pushes me to write more clearly and improve how I explain things and helps me to recognize blind spots and things that I've missed. So thank you.
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Seriously--tremendous accomplishment! I love that work so much. I think that, coupled with I&S (and I really do see them as a pair), it's my favorite. Such great character development, and such wonderful journeys!
You gave me so much reading pleasure! Thank you!
Do you also play The Elder Scrolls Online? You can find me there as CathyTea, too!
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Chapter 42: Askew
The world feels when things are not right. Amelia, Vanja, Novak, and many others feel it too. And it's time to do something about it. Meanwhile, Tad and Emily have their own battles to fight.
I hope you guys enjoy and have a lovely time.
The Fey of Life - fairytales in life are few and far between (Forum thread HERE)
The Chrysanthemum Tango - a story about life, death, magic, and how to be a good landlady (Forum thread HERE)
Forget-Me-Not - some things just refuse to stay buried; an Ambrosia Challenge story (Forum thread HERE)
On @MedleyMisty's empathy question... finally getting an opportunity to respond to this...
I like tragic hero stories. I think there's a lot of truth to this concept that people should have more compassion for those in bad circumstances because it could've happened to them. Sometimes the world is just a dark, angry place and things just happen because of this.
I like highly flawed characters. I think they are infinitely more interesting. I would describe Kass as one, and Gage is also. Personally, a lot of my readers like Gage, I know, but not so many like Kass. I had a hard time with this one initially, but then I learned to embrace it and it fueled my desire to continue staying true to who Kass is. I'll say more on that in a minute.
One of my favorite tragic heros is a character named Londo Mollari in a television sci-fi show called Babylon 5. The show takes place in the mid-2200s on a space station, built by Earth, known as Babylon 5. The show intersects many alien cultures and races and deals with big issues such as discrimination, classicism, racism, religion/faith, politics, sexism, war, poverty, power, etc. on an inter-galactic scale. Earth is at the center of everything, with B-5 serving as a gathering place for commerce, diplomacy, and scientific discovery.
First of all, the writer, J. Michael Straczynski did an incredible job weaving a meta-narrative, a glorious story arc over five seasons, which at the time (early 90s) was unheard of, and now it's quite common in our television shows. Secondly, Londo is an arrogant, obnoxious, cruel man at times, but Straczynski does such a subtle, yet fabulous job of weaving his back story in and out of the plot, and also he is often forced to choose the lesser of two evils, both of which are still evil. He is faced with impossible choices and his politicking gets him into serious trouble and has massive universal consequences, and yet, as a viewer, I still feel pity and sympathy for him.
Straczynski also writes another character, Alfred Bester, whom I love to hate and hate to love, a high level officer of a policing force known as the Psi Corps (telepaths). He is so good at his job, and he's a sarcastic, intelligent, and ruthless man, but I have to enjoy watching his character unfold because he is so good at being bad... and he has a rare moment or two that invokes sympathy. In the Babylon 5 (B-5) universe, characters are often victims of their culture and circumstances, and of governments making decisions on their behalf. One of my favorite characters, John Sheridan, the captain of B5, says words that have stuck with me permanently - "Governments operate on matters of convenience, not conscience."
I digress. My point is I empathize with even the worst of Straczynski's characters because they are real, and they are real because they are flawed. They have real problems and real emotions, real passions and drives, and they operate on a grand scale making decisions for real people that have real consequences. Not everyone survives. Good guys don't always beat bad guys, and even when they do, 1) there is either bigger, badder guys out there, and 2) there is serious fall-out - people suffer from massive guilt and PTSD, people transfer to different jobs, people get demoted, and people die. All this being said, the real world is like this too... maybe not on quite a massive scale since we currently don't have an intergalactic playing field, but the real world faces these kinds of things every day.
In one episode, Delenn, one of the alien race ambassadors, speaks to the captain regarding a dying, isolated, frightened alien population and requests entrance to their quarantined space. The captain says they aren't her kind, which she responds, "I did not realize similarity was required for the exercise of compassion."
This speaks volumes to me. Compassion should be granted to all regardless of their social identities (i.e. race, class, gender, religion, etc.). We should be embracing our differences instead of squabbling over them. People are generally frightened of that which they do not understand, but if they take the time to understand, to feel compassion, to recognize the humanity in everyone, we might have a better world.
I digressed again... but my point is, compassion and empathy are crucial to our world. Do I wish more people would empathize with Kassiopeia? Yes. I do. Because I see merit in her and I know her heart and her back story and all the invisible factors weighing in on her life. I recognize not everyone will love her like I do, but I do feel a strong desire to help people understand she is a flawed human who makes serious mistakes with very real consequences, but she is also capable of incredible strength, growth, and compassion.
Maybe she's just not there yet... and the key is "yet." I think some of my readers are frustrated because they want her to be there now. They want her to be likable immediately. They want to relate to her instantly. I might imagine this is why some people do not like Seth at times, @MedleyMisty, but I see merit there. I see an intriguing, incredibly complex character, worthy of love and compassion, who makes real mistakes with real consequences. This is why I appreciate Seth.
I like to challenge people, and to challenge myself to write a lovable character who is often unlikable, and it takes awhile to see past her flaws. I hope people will stick with me through the process.
Okay, I wrote more than I expected, so I will talk about the other questions/responses in another post.
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Hello @RipuAncestor I totally listened to the songs and then never commented here. I liked the first one - it felt very festive and Christmas-y, but different from what I'm accustomed to.
The language is pretty in the second song, and I loved the repetition and patterns and high notes. It made me want to sway and dance... but I don't dance very rhythmically or we'll just say I dance when no one's watching.
The last song made me want to sing in choir again. We used to sing songs in different languages. I recall Hebrew, German, Latin, Italian, Spanish, French, and a handful of others... but now I think we should totally add Finnish to our repertoire.
I like the concept of quiet and peace at Christmas instead of busyness and festivity constantly. Winter is a great time to embrace the cold and dark. I like this one sad song by Josh Groban - February Song, which isn't a Christmas song, but a winter one, and it makes me feel wistful and introspective. I'm waiting to find a perfect chapter to include this song in one of my stories.
Thank you for sharing.
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@CathyTea
As I wrote on my blog, Kass doesn't know how to process things. If there are too many things tugging at her attention, she doesn't know how to cope, to sort out what is best for her to focus on in the moment, and what she needs to set aside for now. She gets overwhelmed easily, and this makes her feel backed into a corner. This is why she is often harsh when she speaks because she says the first thing that's on her mind. Typically, it's to protect herself, and shield herself from unwanted emotions or attentions. Her feelings are valid but she needs to take the time to dig deeper and understand why she feels the way she does and then think about the best way to convey this to others. She also needs to learn to trust her instincts and when something doesn't feel right, she needs to get out of there. I think this is partly because Kass wants to think she can handle herself, and partly because she doesn't feel comfortable in her own body. She often lets fear dictate her emotions and reactions and choices - fear of being misunderstood, fear of not being accepted, fear of what commitment and love truly look like, fear of pain and rejection, and the list goes on. When forced to make a quick decision, Kass typically goes with an emotional response rather than a rational or logical one, and this gets her into serious trouble. There is real fall-out from her choices, and definite consequences, for better or worse.
Kass' family history plays a huge role in why she is the way she is. I have already shared some things, and you probably remember some from the chapters themselves, but all I can say is there's a lot more to discover about Kass. I am a big believer in healing and I have suffered from PTSD (ooo... I'm getting real here)... so I know how long the road to recovery is. Most stories start with the recovery. I am starting with the context. I am starting the hard way, and challenging myself to walk through the pain and the struggles with Kass because I think it's important for my readers to understand the why. Unfortunately, I think that means alienating readers sometimes because Kass is unlikable. But that's part of what makes her exciting for me... because it's a challenge... and because I have said the wrong things and made the wrong choices and ignored my gut before and I know what that feels like. I also feel like this helps me set up an incredible opportunity for growth and healing. Kass has a long way to go but I hope my readers hang in there with me.
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And thanks for sharing the February Song. It was nice.
And since we're sharing music... I guess I'll keep going with it: for the last... I don't know, many chapters of Tango, I've used Riverside's (they're an awesome prog band from Poland) Love, Fear and the Time Machine -album as my inspirational background music for writing A LOT of the time. So I figured I'd share this happy song from that album.
The Fey of Life - fairytales in life are few and far between (Forum thread HERE)
The Chrysanthemum Tango - a story about life, death, magic, and how to be a good landlady (Forum thread HERE)
Forget-Me-Not - some things just refuse to stay buried; an Ambrosia Challenge story (Forum thread HERE)
Chapter 43: Timely Interventions
Sometimes the darkest hour can fit into seconds.
I hope you enjoy and have a lovely time!
The Fey of Life - fairytales in life are few and far between (Forum thread HERE)
The Chrysanthemum Tango - a story about life, death, magic, and how to be a good landlady (Forum thread HERE)
Forget-Me-Not - some things just refuse to stay buried; an Ambrosia Challenge story (Forum thread HERE)
Do you also play The Elder Scrolls Online? You can find me there as CathyTea, too!
if you hold your breath you will pass out then you won't know what happens next.
The Fey of Life - fairytales in life are few and far between (Forum thread HERE)
The Chrysanthemum Tango - a story about life, death, magic, and how to be a good landlady (Forum thread HERE)
Forget-Me-Not - some things just refuse to stay buried; an Ambrosia Challenge story (Forum thread HERE)
thanks. its true.
Chapter 44: Trial and Error
Tad has to face the consequences of his adventure. He’s not the only one who ends up facing things. Sometimes both help and enemies can come from surprising places.
I hope you guys enjoy and have a lovely time!
The Fey of Life - fairytales in life are few and far between (Forum thread HERE)
The Chrysanthemum Tango - a story about life, death, magic, and how to be a good landlady (Forum thread HERE)
Forget-Me-Not - some things just refuse to stay buried; an Ambrosia Challenge story (Forum thread HERE)
Brownie points if you can guess who is who above...
Find me elsewhere:
My EA App ID: livinasimminlife
Livin' A Simmin' Life Stories
My Worldbuilding Blog
Simblr
My Sims Pinterest
Find me elsewhere:
My EA App ID: livinasimminlife
Livin' A Simmin' Life Stories
My Worldbuilding Blog
Simblr
My Sims Pinterest
I don't know about likeable, but I'd at least give some understandable motivation behind their villainy. For example, the assistants in Chronicles part 1:
This is because of all of them, he is the only one who has done something truly horrific to another person (in this instance, his companion). The thing is, said horrific act was not of his volition. Horse-face himself was also being used, in a matter of speaking.
Several times, it's stated that his companion despises the man who was controlling them both, but he could never despise Horse-Face himself; In his eyes, Horse-Face was being used as much as he was.
Now, this does not excuse the awful, awful things that Horse-Face's companion was put through, and by no means did I intend for Horse-Face to truly be sympathetic, even during his moments of lamentations and attempting to atone for his past actions. What I was trying to show that, long story short: Yes, he committed a most vile act. No, he isn't proud that he did it. (Not that that stops The Builder from constantly rubbing it in his face)
If anything, he's surprised that his companion doesn't hate him, when he has every right to. He even agrees with Annette whenever she tells him what an awful person he is.
TL;DR: Horse-Face was meant to be ultimately on the side of good, but had committed a criminal act that he still blames himself for (since it was not of his own choice), and isn't meant to really be a likeable character due to this.
I doubt this really answered your question, but that's what I had to say.
Part One(Complete 9/24/16) /Part Two(on hold)/Short Stories(on hold)/Twinbrook 1996(on hold)/Ten Crystal Hearts (on hold)
I own the TS3 Store as of 12/11/16 (sort of. It's complicated)
And, Art Commune buddies... I've got a new chapter of my Murkland story. I think this is the story that's for this circle, right? If not... you might enjoy reading it anyway for a few Art Commune Circle tie-ins...
Tie-in #1 - My SimSelf (who is ostensibly the author of this Murkland story) is writing to @MedleyMisty 's SelfSelf in the Author's Notes! How fun is that!
And
Tie-in #2 has to do with a very special appearance in the next chapter and two chapters after that... and when you see who it is, I think you'll smile! (Plus the writing of those two chapters is going to be a very special collaboration with said Simmer of said special character!
Do you also play The Elder Scrolls Online? You can find me there as CathyTea, too!
But if there a way they might change their character? Or make amends?
Either that or perhaps there is a reason behind their ... character. Bad past, rebellious etc ... You can create a chapter that could explain their side of things.
Putting the rest of this in a spoiler because it's weird and meandering.
So I do have a hard time reading characters saying harsh things or judging or gossiping or just in general not respecting the selves of others. Although I was surprised by how people saw Seth as more abrasive than I thought he was when I started writing his letters. I am completely self-taught when it comes to social skills (seriously, you should meet my family), so whatever he's missing I'm missing too.
I think, thinking about it...the judgement thing...like I can't pin it down to exact rules. It's probably really just anything that my brain interprets as being like the Bad Times that sets it off. And I'm sure that someone could stalk through my personal blog and find plenty of incidences of me being a hypocrite and judging others, and I'm sure that someone will do that and that they will then go talk about it with everyone in public. At least now I know to stay very far away from anyone who engages in that sort of thing or anyone who interacts with anyone who engages in that sort of thing, and to never give them any benefit of any doubts. When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time, not two years later when you're bleeding to death.
I guess, about the flaws...
I tend to not like talking about it in terms of faults and flaws. Possibly because of the aforementioned Bad Times.
I guess, like....
What would a "not flawed" character look like? I personally think that it would be different for everyone. Like, okay, for me, my two unforgivable things are hurting a member of a species other than 🐸🐸🐸🐸 sapiens, and judging and gossiping about others. I have learned enough about humans now to know that most other people have a very different list of unforgivable sins, and that actually there's lots of humans out there who would consider my strong emotional reactions to fictional accounts of members of other species being purposefully hurt by humans or humans talking about others in a judging dehumanizing way to be huge glaring flaws, to the point of needing to spend eight years stalking me, screenshotting my personal posts, and sharing them in public on hate blogs to point out these huge glaring flaws of mine to everyone else. But I guess it's an eternal circle of flawedness, because anyone who does that, or who enjoys watching it happen to others, has just committed one of my unforgivable sins, and now I think of them as having a huge glaring flaw.
So who defines what a flawed character is, and what a not-flawed character is? Who defines what is a flaw? Where is this universal template of not-flawed that other people received and that they're using when they talk about flawed characters and why didn't I receive it?
Actually, thinking about it, and you know what those two things that I consider unforgivable flaws have in common? Not seeing other living beings as real, and hurting them because they're not real to you. And not because of any understandable previous back story that would have reasonably led to that behavior, and that I might be able to understand even if it is hard or impossible for me to read, but just...I don't know. Because it's what the cool kids do, or because you like hurting others, or for social status, or because you're just that self-absorbed that you don't even see other living beings as real and you don't care what happens to them as a result of the choices that you made to hurt them.
But that's what I see as a flaw. To the point that not only am I unable to like a character who displays that behavior, but I am also extremely likely to stop reading the story and also to probably feel really uncomfortable for quite some time after reading it and also probably avoid the author.
I also don't get why it should matter if I like a character or not. Or why it should matter if anyone who chooses to read my stuff likes my characters. If I wrote with an idea that other people should like what I write, I would be extremely lost, because I don't know enough about other humans to know what they would like.
Well, I do know enough to know that none of them like precisely the same things, so if I wrote with the intention of making some humans like my characters, it's a certainty that other humans would hate both my characters and me. So is it just a question of which humans you want to like your characters, and which humans you don't mind having hate your characters? But then you'd have to do a lot of market research, to figure out who sees what as a flaw and who dislikes what and who likes what. I mean, like, if you have me but you also have someone who thinks that other species don't matter and that caring about other species is silly and wrong, and that other humans should be harshly judged and shamed in public for, I don't even know, showing any sort of emotion or vulnerability, then who are you going to please?
Or to bring in PTSD (which, yes, I know I have a great whopping case of it) and to go back to the Game of Thrones analysis - there are plenty of people who see having PTSD as a flaw, and there are also people who see not being understanding of PTSD as a flaw, and then there are probably some people in the middle, like the types who think that it is a real thing but that it only applies to people who were in the military, and if anyone else says that they were traumatized then you should probably judge them and shame them in public and get all self-righteous and gossipy and judgmental and hateful with your friends about who does this person think they are, saying that they were traumatized by anything other than being an active combatant in a socially approved war? Because nothing else that happens to humans could possibly be traumatizing.
So if you have a character with PTSD and you have another character berate that character for having PTSD, who's the flawed one? Who's unlikable?
Which unlikable is such a harsh word. I don't like it at all. (LOL, I was just rereading and noticed what I did there.)
For me personally, I hate judging others and I hate the idea that a person could be permanently isolated and cast out. LOL, it's almost like I have a past of pretty severe trauma surrounding that topic!
I used to not be like that, until I learned that not judging and not assuming and trying your best to be accepting and understanding could lead to a shattered self-esteem, a lack of trust in your own perceptions after years of gaslighting and an inability to trust most other people after years of anonymous stalking, and a hemorrhaging ulcer if you weren't careful. So, personally, if I were a character that I was judging, I'd say that I have an understandable back story for my actions. But if it was people who are into judging and gossip and hate blogs judging me as a character, well, they'd say all sorts of nasty things about me, and they'd definitely find me unlikable.
I guess that if I have a point besides trying to express how unsafe I feel here, it's that flaws are in the eye of the beholder. Although there does seem to be some agreed upon template that I don't have access to? But even then, the template would just be based on what's considered flaws in the eyes of the dominant social group.
So I just write my characters, and things happen, and I don't worry my pretty little weak trauma-riddled biased ignorant human brain about flaws or likability. I write what comes through my fingers, and other people can like it or not. I would ask that if they don't like it, then they have the decency to either go find something else to read that they do like or that they bring up their concerns with me in private and under a real username, but I know that's not going to happen and that instead they're going to stalk me and screenshot my posts and anonymously insult me in public. Because humans are gonna human, and we all have weak biased ignorant brains, and also I think a much higher percentage of those brains are trauma-riddled than we'll admit, and things that some people somewhere would consider flaws are an inescapable part of the whole being human deal. If you write it, the flaws will come, because they can't do otherwise.
@xJojox brought this up too... A bad past or history might have corrupted thought processes or may seriously influence actions. As I've grown older, I recognize things in my life are a certain way because of things that happened to me as a child, teen, and young adult. This doesn't excuse poor behavior, but sometimes my reactions to things have been almost involuntary, a gut reaction based on conditioning.
I can't remember the exact psychological term for this, and I tried googling it but couldn't find much or exactly what I was looking for - but we were discussing in one of my classes recently that your first reaction is a gut reaction based on how you were raised, conditioned, and what you have been taught, and your second reaction is what you actually want to do, think, believe, and say.
The first is pretty powerful because it is your gut instinct to protect your beliefs regardless of whether they are acceptable or not because the brain is wired to react defensively to things that are different from or challenge your beliefs. We humans don't like to be wrong or questioned because it is simply easier to accept things at face value. This doesn't mean your gut reaction is bad, and there could be a million things that could help you justify why you react the way you do (see above my examples with @rednenemon).
However the second is often necessary because you take the time to think through your choices and your reactions, and you challenge your brain to consider other options and give them equal consideration and merit.
One of our guest speakers during my recent masters capstone trip said,
I love that because the first and second reactions mean the difference between surviving and thriving. We can simply choose to survive and make snap judgments or quick assessments, (and there is a time and place for this, so don't get me wrong, I think it's okay to do this at times such as in an emergency or a situation where we are otherwise threatened) or we can choose to think critically and challenge our own biases and question our own prejudices.
Okay this is getting long, so the rest is under spoilers.
I think one awesome thing about those of us in this circle is that we do take the time to think beyond, and to consider, question, challenge, and to process. It's evident in our writing and our conversations here. I don't particularly care for most forms of general entertainment out there (not to say I don't indulge ever... when I'm sick, all I want to watch is something I can numb out too... because it hurts too much to think and I need a short-cut) because I actually do like reading and watching things that make me think and question and challenge me to step outside the box, and frankly, that's not the mainstream, and probably never will be.
Writing is a way to process things that I'm thinking and feeling or things I have experienced or seen or heard or wondered about. I am a big believer in story. Everyone has a story. Even those who do unlikable things... actually... transitioning... I like what @MedleyMisty said about not liking the word unlikable. The things someone does may be unlikable, but they are still human, and it's easy to strip away their humanity by looking at them in a one-dimensional way with a label - unlikable... or insert another word of your choice... and after hearing that guest speaker who spoke to my class, I realized what it is we do when we slap labels on people and make judgments... we are creating short-cuts which in turn create bias. So I am convinced humans can be lazy and this is what causes us to avoid taking the longer pathway, to take the time to understand and to converse. If we took the time to try and understand, we might judge each other less, and might actually open up new pathways.
@MedleyMisty I've noticed this too. I have a variety of thoughts on this and why this is. Interestingly enough, we were also discussing this in my class recently about how women tend to judge women more harshly than they judge men. Being a woman instead of a man, I'm automatically at a disadvantage because I am not male.
Even in the 21st century, even in 2017, women face more prejudice than men, and if you have another social identifier (i.e. Ability (physical and mental). Age. Ethnicity. Race. Religion. Sexual Orientation.) that does not fit the mainstream norm, these identifiers stack against you. But instead of competing with one another, women should be more tolerant and embrace one another and support one another, you would think, right?
We posited a variety of reasons for why women might judge women more harshly - 1) because we are attempting to compete with one another, 2) because we think our sex should be better or do better, 3) because we are desperately trying to fit into a socially contrived norm against our better judgment, etc. The list went on.
That got me thinking about the judgment that happens in the Sims community too. I suppose people judge that which they don't understand, and that which is different, because it's easier that way, and it requires less effort and thinking, and because they want to be seen as normal and anything atypical or abnormal or different or unique must automatically be wrong because it goes against what they know and believe and think and feel... but and this is a big BUT... that doesn't make it right to judge and that doesn't mean that the atypical, abnormal, and the different are wrong.
I wonder if people judge Kass differently because she is female and Gage is male. Gage is just as judgmental and harsh, insensitive and self-centered as Kass, but he is judged differently for it (At least from the way people comment about him). Not saying that neither of them have redeemable qualities. It seems human nature to zero in on what we don't like and forget about what we like. Kass may be those things too, but she can also be deeply introspective and curious and she does try to give people the benefit of the doubt most of the time and she does care about others.
I also wonder if people give Gage a pass because he had such a hard life and Kass has her own difficulties but not in the same way. She has her family and grandparents and they have money, whereas Gage has truly struggled to fit in and has bounced around to many different families and places, some of which were honestly terrible for him. However, Kass has her own demons she struggles with and her own difficulties and while I have tried to illustrate this, I'm not sure I've always done the best job. Some of it may also be I feel my writing quality has improved since I started writing SimLit. I started first with Kass and then wrote Gage, and my level of writing was different, and I would argue, better than when I started so Gage may have just gotten a better back story and better development around his reasons for his choices.
Sometimes I have to think about things before I know what it is I actually want to say or how I should have responded to something, so I want to say this now that I'm on the subject... @CathyTea I know you mentioned how you didn't feel sorry for Kass at the end of FRWL. I first want to say I appreciate your honesty, and I wasn't exactly trying to elicit sympathy, merely to explain some of where she was coming from. I secondly want to say I respect your opinions and your thoughts.
That being said, coming to Kass' defense... and her reasons... (which I'm putting under spoilers since not everyone is caught up)
1) at the start of KFLL, she is single, so evidently she couldn't have stayed with Gage forever since I&S and FRWL happen between KCLKF and KFLL,
2) Kass has just come out of a bad relationship with Billy where she didn't know where she stood and he used her, so she's a bit shell-shocked from that,
3) Ethan just attempted to 🐸🐸🐸🐸 Kass so she's still recovering from this also and didn't really have a chance to think and process and feel from that experience fully before she and Gage decided to go for it and before he found out about Natalya,
4) She has a tendency to be impulsive which is probably why she jumped into a relationship with Gage and some of this is because she wanted, needed, and craved comfort... Gage is familiar and he cares about her deeply and she knows that and acknowledges that, and sometimes it's nice just to be cared for, but
5) Kass also realizes she cannot string him along and it's unfair to him and she really needs to process and deal with her own traumas and emotions and thoughts before she is ready to date and be anyone's girlfriend so she was actually doing the best thing, even if it was painful for Gage, and
6) Kass' history very much informs who she is, and you'll see more of that as I continue writing (and that's all I'll say because I don't want to give too much away),
7) Kass is very much concerned about what is right in front of her, and honestly, right now she's focused on her dad, and she feels she cannot give time to dating when she is still trying to process her father's condition and his health (since he doesn't have anyone but her taking care of his) and her own and the potential effects EXCES will have on her future, and
8) Kass is still not over Davis. She jumped into a relationship with Billy to distract her from the pain of hurting Davis and her father's condition worsening, and she jumped into a relationship with Gage to avoid processing the stuff with Billy, Ethan, and her dad, and she finally recognizes this in herself and how she needs to process a whole plum lot about her life before she's ready for the next steps.
I say all that with grace and love because honestly, you are all entitled to your own opinions, and I respect that right. I also understand that Kass can be very unlikable at times, but she can also be likable too, I'd argue, but as @MedleyMisty said "like" is in the eye of the beholder. Kass is very easily suffering from PTSD, and @MedleyMisty I agree with you that they should seriously broaden that term to include way more things than just military service. I had a classmate once say, "All of life is traumatic." There's a whole plum ton of things that happen to us all that can be painful and difficult and traumatic, and humans need to be more gracious and kind to one another because we've all gone through 🐸🐸🐸🐸 at one point or another.
I had to grow up and move away from my family to understand that things really are different in the world out there, and that different doesn't mean wrong. I grew up in a pretty strict religious judgmental family, but I had no idea how much so until I left. And that's probably why Kass is missing certain things in this juncture of her life, like @MedleyMisty said about Seth, because she is still discovering the world too, and herself, and is just now starting to question the things she's been taught to think and believe. It's impossible for me to write a character without flaws because every human has flaws but some of us just have more obvious ones than others. And Kass is deeply flawed, but that's what makes her authentic to me.
Whew! Long response. Thanks for your patience with my wordiness.
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But I just wanted to say that you guys have great and insightful points, and I'm glad that the conversation in this circle has been revived.
The Fey of Life - fairytales in life are few and far between (Forum thread HERE)
The Chrysanthemum Tango - a story about life, death, magic, and how to be a good landlady (Forum thread HERE)
Forget-Me-Not - some things just refuse to stay buried; an Ambrosia Challenge story (Forum thread HERE)
Find me elsewhere:
My EA App ID: livinasimminlife
Livin' A Simmin' Life Stories
My Worldbuilding Blog
Simblr
My Sims Pinterest