Get Together Proves Get to Work's Design Was a Failure «1234...Next Go

Sk8rblaze

From the beginning of its announcement, I was very disappointed that the first EP of TS4 (Get to Work) followed the structure of past, unpopular and unfavored TS3 EPs in the way they present you ~3 major features, and design basically the entire EP around them. In other words, these features are the opposite of what I'd call core features, as they require you to go out of your way to virtually alter the entirety of your Sim's life to truly take advantage of them (think of TS3: Showtime, for instance). Also, we had a bit of OFB features baked into GTW on the side, which is a shame, because I feel had they focused on the OFB aspects of the EP entirely, it would have been a much better, full-fledged EP (especially if they included a highly requested feature such as TS1/TS2-style restaurants and the ability to run them). I am hoping they will expand the OFB portion of GTW through patches as TS4's content expands (similar to how they now allow us to run a cafe with GTW installed). After all, as TS2 has proven, the Sim game which offers the best connectivity between its EPs tends to be the most successful.

To make matters worse, GTW's 3 careers are completely surrounded by check-lists, and the entirety of the gameplay is restrictive. Careers in GTW require you to do an EXACT interaction at that EXACT moment, or you fail, risk demotion, etc. And then, on the DOT of the time you are supposed to leave, it just kicks you out of the venue altogether. This has never been the nature of The Sims. The Sims has always been about giving players the tools to play the game THEIR way. Even TS3: World Adventures wasn't this restrictive! For a game whose tagline is "You Rule", I find it GTW promises the exact opposite and limits my creativity. I hope that they will release a patch in the future that COMPLETELY revises GTW's careers and to be more oriented towards players who like to do things their way, perhaps also letting us come/go to these venues as we please, whether that be for recreation or career-wise.

I felt now would be a good time to bring this up after playing Get Together for many hours already. Get Together's design is vastly different, and actually puts the player first. We have the freedom to play our way, and so much control put into our hands. Content in Get Together is not at all linear, restrictive, and it DOES have high replay value/replayability. THAT is how an EP for The Sims needs to be and THAT is what we should be expecting from the rest of TS4.

TL;DR - Get Together's EP design of giving us freedom to play the way we'd like is definitely much more fun and is the type of gameplay The Sims has always been about. GTW, and its nature of being a linear, restrictive, and grindy EP, is the exact opposite, and GTW's design format should definitely be avoided throughout the game's, and really the franchise's, lifespan.

Ponder the Sim

Well said, I completely agree. GT is vastly superior to GTW in terms of freedom and replayability. I cant put this EP down.

Astro

Agreed. Even though I don't have GT, from what I've heard it's way more open ended than GTW.

friendlysimmers

sorry op i fully disagree with you the get togher ep is very well made and get to work was also a great episode as well and the sims4 will keep gettting better

Prink34320

What do you mean by 'unpopular' and 'unfavored' EPs? Each EP in The Sims franchise is popular and favoured to a large group of people, just because it doesn't match the favoritism or popularity of another EP doesn't make it unpopular or unfavored. Also from what I've read and seen, you still can't operate your own Cafe the way Cafe Venues work, you can only sell Cafe Objects or individual Espressos, I also doubt they'd expand on Get To Work in that sense of running your own business because unlike Open For Business, Get To Work only focuses on the Retail aspects.

The Check-Lists in Get To Work follow similar work routines that are also common in real life, you are given a handful of tasks to do in your job, if you refuse to do them, it shouldn't be a surprise that you'd get demoted or even fired. Even so, you don't actually have to follow the goals for Professions, they're there to speed up your Promotion, you can completely avoid doing them and still become Promoted, but it will take allot longer. Are you sure it's not the nature of a Sims game? Because if I recall it, all previous Professions and Careers always had an end time, even if you could prolong the end of your work shift, your Sims were still forced to finish work at a certain time depending on their Profession or Career.

Every iteration in The Sims have always had restrictions.

Pary

Good to read that there is more freedom and less linearity !

CoriChan

Unfortunately you cannot run your own Cafe in Get Together =( You can run a retail store that also has a hired barista to work for you, but you don't get any money from the barista that way, and even if you have a sim order lots of items and quickly mark them for sale the sims treat them like any other object for sale.

I think what Get together proves is that they should think about improving upon the nature of Get To Work, opening up more than just retail, and adding more active careers since all of the expansions will be able to work within each other. I do not feel the need to serve Espresso machines, I feel the need to serve coffee and have Sims actually sit down and drink it like they do in an NPC cafe=/

Mightydan

I absolutely agree. I'll wait a month before giving my final verdict but so far Get Together could be one of the best EPs to ever be released for The Sims series. The amount of freedom and versatility of the club system is insane! I've used it to make my teens be babysitters, servants for my rich sim, a medieval role playing group of grown adults, mothers who raise their wellness skill, geeks who play at the arcade, coffee snobs... All that in just 2 days!
Get Together is a gigantic step in the right direction and I hope the next packs give just as much freedom to do whatever we want.

CandyCadet

Looks like good things come when anything gets delayed



They should've delayed the release of this game even further.

uryga

Wow, EA Listen to this man if you still don't know how the game is SUPPOST to be, He hit the nail on the head.
Go back and play the Sims 1,2 and 3 and learn.

Sk8rblaze

Prink34320 wrote: »

What do you mean by 'unpopular' and 'unfavored' EPs? Each EP in The Sims franchise is popular and favoured to a large group of people, just because it doesn't match the favoritism or popularity of another EP doesn't make it unpopular or unfavored. Also from what I've read and seen, you still can't operate your own Cafe the way Cafe Venues work, you can only sell Cafe Objects or individual Espressos, I also doubt they'd expand on Get To Work in that sense of running your own business because unlike Open For Business, Get To Work only focuses on the Retail aspects.

@Prink34320 I'm going by fan feedback on the forums and other social media I've seen at the times of those releases. When Showtime was released, it really wasn't well-liked. Same goes for World Adventures. A large portion of the fans were not in favor of linear/restrictive gameplay back then, just as now. Obviously, each EP is favored by a certain group of people, however, it is within EA's best interests to release content that is accepted by as many as possible. They should not be catering to only certain groups with each release.

The Check-Lists in Get To Work follow similar work routines that are also common in real life, you are given a handful of tasks to do in your job, if you refuse to do them, it shouldn't be a surprise that you'd get demoted or even fired. Even so, you don't actually have to follow the goals for Professions, they're there to speed up your Promotion, you can completely avoid doing them and still become Promoted, but it will take allot longer. Are you sure it's not the nature of a Sims game? Because if I recall it, all previous Professions and Careers always had an end time, even if you could prolong the end of your work shift, your Sims were still forced to finish work at a certain time depending on their Profession or Career.

Yes, but this is not real life. It's The Sims. It's supposed to be a parody of life, a fun re-spin of it. The Sims has always been much more open with jobs, and virtually everything else, requiring us to get a skill up, but allowing us to achieve that goal in a variety of different ways. The careers in GTW are boring and grindy, and could be so much more. Not only that, but they're kind of broken. If I try to diagnose a Sim in the doctor career for instance, many times it won't diagnose their illness until the checklists sync up with each interaction in a certain order. So, many times, I have to switch the Sim I'm diagnosing and start all over again. Sometimes, because of the checklists, I can only diagnose 1 Sim a day, which is far from acceptable. It's really a headache and massive bore to play the careers as I try following the check-lists on-point, and it just does not need to be like that. It could be much better, and much more fun for everyone.

Your solution of ignoring them and allowing your Sim to take weeks for one promotion is unacceptable for me.

Every iteration in The Sims have always had restrictions.

But every iteration has tried to lessen the restrictions in some way or another, rather than add MORE restrictions on us. GTW provides us THE most restrictive gameplay out of the entire main series, IMHO. I'm sure, with patches, it could be turned into something much better.

starcrunch

While I don't dislike GtW the way @Sk8rblaze does and checklists don't bother me so much, I agree on the design ethos of GT being much superior, because it's really hard to see what kind of gameplay isn't improved by GT. It just gives a player so much freedom. I just used clubs to create a fan club for a sim, I've created a criminal hacker syndicate, set up live in servants for wealthy sims, created extended family clubs that make my families easy to gather (one is totally patrician and elitist, while the other is good natured salt of the earth types). And I come up with something new every time I play.

aws200

Ambitions allowed freedom, Get To Work doesn't.
Open For Business allowed various businesses especially with future DLC, Get To Work doesn't.
Get To Work was a flaw design with little to no effort. Also they need to quit with combining expansion packs like this, it ruins the enjoyment of expansion packs for TS4, they should be unique and focus on a single theme not mix which causes things to be half baked, restrictive, and regretful. That's why I refuse to buy GTW. GT on the other hand, while combining elements from Night Life, Freetime, Livin' Large, and University Life. Doesn't restrict us in such a grotesque manner.

Scobre

I'm actually surprised by GT so far. Apart from the lack of supernaturals and a couple hiccup bugs, it is actually designed pretty well. I do feel like I have more building freedom with it and it actually reminded me how much I enjoyed building in the Sims 2. But yes it is blatantly obviously that GTW was designed with a more structured linear system especially with the careers. The amount of freedom options GT offers for sandbox and deviant and family players is pretty cool so far. GTW did offer the first original world to the series when they made Sixam however. It is a shame it was designed to be so small. I wouldn't call it a failure. I've always had a weakness towards aliens in the Sims. I love them.

Cabelle1863

I remember how much I was looking forward to GTW. I really wanted to enjoy the active careers, but the never ending slog of the checklists drove me around the bend. I wish there was a way to update GTW to have more freedom, like a pool of activities we can choose from for our sim to advance in their career.

I'm glad there's more freedom to play the way we want in GT.

Mendota

I wouldn't say that it is a failure, well I am enjoying it. I really like the mods that have been built around it as well, Go to school, the Turbo careers that include all the others. It is fun to actually go with my Sims to work and School at times. I like variety.

siennaSTAR

I find the ingenious thing about GT is that while it included a lot of big features, it's selling point (the clubs) simply allow you to do what the game already has. It's truly opened up the potential of TS4 by allowing players to have a sort of direction to their play, while not restricting it to a series of check-lists in the way of GTW. GT is honestly my favourite pack of any game thus far, which makes me excited for the future. I hope EA learns from this formula and expands upon it. I never had a problem with GTW until now, when I realise how superior GT is.

windweaver

Sk8rblaze wrote: »

From the beginning of its announcement, I was very disappointed that the first EP of TS4 (Get to Work) followed the structure of past, unpopular and unfavored TS3 EPs in the way they present you ~3 major features, and design basically the entire EP around them. In other words, these features are the opposite of what I'd call core features, as they require you to go out of your way to virtually alter the entirety of your Sim's life to truly take advantage of them (think of TS3: Showtime, for instance). Also, we had a bit of OFB features baked into GTW on the side, which is a shame, because I feel had they focused on the OFB aspects of the EP entirely, it would have been a much better, full-fledged EP (especially if they included a highly requested feature such as TS1/TS2-style restaurants and the ability to run them). I am hoping they will expand the OFB portion of GTW through patches as TS4's content expands (similar to how they now allow us to run a cafe with GTW installed). After all, as TS2 has proven, the Sim game which offers the best connectivity between its EPs tends to be the most successful.

To make matters worse, GTW's 3 careers are completely surrounded by check-lists, and the entirety of the gameplay is restrictive. Careers in GTW require you to do an EXACT interaction at that EXACT moment, or you fail, risk demotion, etc. And then, on the DOT of the time you are supposed to leave, it just kicks you out of the venue altogether. This has never been the nature of The Sims. The Sims has always been about giving players the tools to play the game THEIR way. Even TS3: World Adventures wasn't this restrictive! For a game whose tagline is "You Rule", I find it GTW promises the exact opposite and limits my creativity. I hope that they will release a patch in the future that COMPLETELY revises GTW's careers and to be more oriented towards players who like to do things their way, perhaps also letting us come/go to these venues as we please, whether that be for recreation or career-wise.

I felt now would be a good time to bring this up after playing Get Together for many hours already. Get Together's design is vastly different, and actually puts the player first. We have the freedom to play our way, and so much control put into our hands. Content in Get Together is not at all linear, restrictive, and it DOES have high replay value/replayability. THAT is how an EP for The Sims needs to be and THAT is what we should be expecting from the rest of TS4.

TL;DR - Get Together's EP design of giving us freedom to play the way we'd like is definitely much more fun and is the type of gameplay The Sims has always been about. GTW, and its nature of being a linear, restrictive, and grindy EP, is the exact opposite, and GTW's design format should definitely be avoided throughout the game's, and really the franchise's, lifespan.

Oh this post is so making me want to go upstairs, wake my husband and ask if I can't have my christmas present early! lol! You just described the difference between a TOY and a GAME!

The toy you play however you want for years if you so choose. The game? You follow the rules, win it, and throw it out or give it away after you beat it. To me, in the past, The sims were never about rules or linear game play like this one is, the sims was merely a set of tools that allowed you to create your own toys to play for as long as you liked, however you liked.

I have said this before and fans of the current play (before GT came out) would state that there is no end win situation. I guess I should have asked them "Oh really?" How come after my sim made level 10 in doctor's career I never bothered with that profession again? Why bother? It would merely be a repeat of the same linear game play that I already won? Again, why bother, it's not going to be any different.

Anyway, thanks Sk8! If Maxis keeps up with this type of ep's, ie., giving tools instead of making us follow directions. I'm going to keep playing.

emperorq52

I really want to buy Get Together now too after your wonderful and insightful summary! I enjoy the CAS content in packs they release but the gameplay always seems lacking for me. But GT sounds like it might just be a pack I'll love. I'm just waiting on the price to go down a little more though...

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

Ceres_Meiriona

Yes! I enjoyed GTW for what it was, but I am so happy to see the return of my long lost (and very beloved) sandbox features! Get Together's format is vastly superior to GTW's and I am so happy to see this return of placing power and choice back into the player's hands so that we can determine what WE want.

Littlebear

I enjoyed GTW I wish there were more careers like that were not the norm like an astronaut. and I am thoroughly enjoying get together, my only complaint about GT is I wish the dancing had more moves and took longer to max out but It's fun I do love the new interactions as well. and the new animations are really appreciated too.

stilljustme2

My main disappointment with GTW is that the skills/interactions are not transferable when you change jobs or retire -- you don't suddenly forget how to dispense medical advice when you retire as a doctor or forget all your science skills when you switch to scientist. I'd really like the opportunity to have a retired scientist work from home to make serums for sale or to give to her family members, or for a doctor to continue to offer medical advice (even if it's not taken as seriously by other Sims). But yes, I love the open-ended play of the groups in GT -- you can form a group and have them meet as often or seldom as you want. My only beef is that the selection of club icons is so limited, it's hard to find ones that fit my group without duplicating other group's icons.

Scobre

stilljustme2 wrote: »

My main disappointment with GTW is that the skills/interactions are not transferable when you change jobs or retire -- you don't suddenly forget how to dispense medical advice when you retire as a doctor or forget all your science skills when you switch to scientist. I'd really like the opportunity to have a retired scientist work from home to make serums for sale or to give to her family members, or for a doctor to continue to offer medical advice (even if it's not taken as seriously by other Sims). But yes, I love the open-ended play of the groups in GT -- you can form a group and have them meet as often or seldom as you want. My only beef is that the selection of club icons is so limited, it's hard to find ones that fit my group without duplicating other group's icons.

More icons would be nice. I kind of wish we could design our own icons.

alyssasim87

GTW is fun. And even though I was way more excited for it compared to GT, I actually feel like GT is the better game. I dont mind the checklists and things in GTW, but I admit Im having way more fun playing with the clubs then I do having my sims work. I would like to see more active careers added in the game. And it would be neat if the buisinesses could be expanded on. But still Id have to say GT has offered me a lot more things to do and Ive spent a lot of time on it and am still finding new things to do. So I think GT is the better game.

psykt

The worst part of both of these expansions packs is that they both require travelling a lot, and that just takes too much time. I hate travelling and I never do.