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Was The Sims a victim of it's own success?
king_of_simcity7
Posts: 25,102 Member
Ok, I have been thinking lately about things, and I was wondering, as there are still a lot of discussions about the direction of the series I have started to look at things from several points of view.
Now, back when TS1 came out the game was very basic, we all know about that, even those who never played it. No one knew at the time if the game would even be popular so there was a few things that would have been left out without us even knowing. We could only play on up to 10 residential lots, there was only two life stages (not including an object like baby) and only 10 career tracks amongst only a handful of build or buy objects. You could only build on two floors as well, no 3D views and the cheapest TV you could buy was black and white!
But along came the EPs, which themselves followed a few basic free downloadable items. Of course there was some CC but even that was limited in those days. The first EPs where quite small compared to today's, you could say they were a bit more than a SP, perhaps like having an EP?
Then came TS2 which was light years ahead from TS1, you now had these Sims that could age up, new life stages, it was 3D, Sims could bring friends home from school or work, you could add more lots to the neighbourhood and even make your own 'template' if you had Sim City 4, you could even choose different colours for objects, the presets and that was before the EPs, the SPs and downloadables...
Then came TS3, another step ahead, an Open World, a CASt to make your own presets, life stages not much different but a few changes to the careers, you could go out collect things if you wanted, you could buy cars and all that was missing was a pool ladder, a hot tub and a gardener amongst a few other things. Then of course came the content, EPs, SPs, the Store, the tools, CAW, CAP and even a ridiculous amount of CC and Mods.
So now it is the TS4 era, it does not need to be mentioned that a few things were missing from the 'base game' so people are not too happy. The toddlers (yes, here we go again) are missing also but there are other things as well, no CAW being one other major thing, it does seem hard to compare TS4 to TS3.
So what does this mean? Did The Sims get too big that it was inevitable that one day would not be able to match a predecessor? Why does this even happen? Other games do this as well sometimes.
Take Tomb Raider for an example. TR1 had 14 levels (including a 'tutorial' level) but just 4 weapons. TR2 had 19 levels (including the tutorial) and this time 7 weapons and in some levels you have vehicles while years later, Tomb Raider Legend had only 9 levels.
Back to The Sims. Have players come to expect so much that these days, it is impossible to remember what it was like when TS1 first came out? Now I am not trying to say that players should expect their monies worth, as they certainly do, however are expectations going too high? Are we expecting 3 EPs to come with a base game on launch day?
The way I see it is, the series has come so far that it is now impossible to appeal to every player. While one EP might be 'the best one ever' to one player, another player will openly boycott it. We even have these 'play styles' now that I never even heard of back in the old days 'family player' or 'single player' or 'deviant' or 'builder' ect. What am I though? I just call myself a Simmer as I play with all play styles from time to time. I refer to other players as Simmers and only put people into the aforementioned categories because it seems easier to do so.
So like I said, has The Sims started to become a victim of its own success and has changed from being ' a game that everyone loved' to a game that 'some people like, others do not' with a worrying divide?
Please discuss nicely...
Thread rules
Please respect other player's opinions, even if they differ from yours
No gifs
No flame bait
No shade
Speak out, speak up and Sim on
Peace
Now, back when TS1 came out the game was very basic, we all know about that, even those who never played it. No one knew at the time if the game would even be popular so there was a few things that would have been left out without us even knowing. We could only play on up to 10 residential lots, there was only two life stages (not including an object like baby) and only 10 career tracks amongst only a handful of build or buy objects. You could only build on two floors as well, no 3D views and the cheapest TV you could buy was black and white!
But along came the EPs, which themselves followed a few basic free downloadable items. Of course there was some CC but even that was limited in those days. The first EPs where quite small compared to today's, you could say they were a bit more than a SP, perhaps like having an EP?
Then came TS2 which was light years ahead from TS1, you now had these Sims that could age up, new life stages, it was 3D, Sims could bring friends home from school or work, you could add more lots to the neighbourhood and even make your own 'template' if you had Sim City 4, you could even choose different colours for objects, the presets and that was before the EPs, the SPs and downloadables...
Then came TS3, another step ahead, an Open World, a CASt to make your own presets, life stages not much different but a few changes to the careers, you could go out collect things if you wanted, you could buy cars and all that was missing was a pool ladder, a hot tub and a gardener amongst a few other things. Then of course came the content, EPs, SPs, the Store, the tools, CAW, CAP and even a ridiculous amount of CC and Mods.
So now it is the TS4 era, it does not need to be mentioned that a few things were missing from the 'base game' so people are not too happy. The toddlers (yes, here we go again) are missing also but there are other things as well, no CAW being one other major thing, it does seem hard to compare TS4 to TS3.
So what does this mean? Did The Sims get too big that it was inevitable that one day would not be able to match a predecessor? Why does this even happen? Other games do this as well sometimes.
Take Tomb Raider for an example. TR1 had 14 levels (including a 'tutorial' level) but just 4 weapons. TR2 had 19 levels (including the tutorial) and this time 7 weapons and in some levels you have vehicles while years later, Tomb Raider Legend had only 9 levels.
Back to The Sims. Have players come to expect so much that these days, it is impossible to remember what it was like when TS1 first came out? Now I am not trying to say that players should expect their monies worth, as they certainly do, however are expectations going too high? Are we expecting 3 EPs to come with a base game on launch day?
The way I see it is, the series has come so far that it is now impossible to appeal to every player. While one EP might be 'the best one ever' to one player, another player will openly boycott it. We even have these 'play styles' now that I never even heard of back in the old days 'family player' or 'single player' or 'deviant' or 'builder' ect. What am I though? I just call myself a Simmer as I play with all play styles from time to time. I refer to other players as Simmers and only put people into the aforementioned categories because it seems easier to do so.
So like I said, has The Sims started to become a victim of its own success and has changed from being ' a game that everyone loved' to a game that 'some people like, others do not' with a worrying divide?
Please discuss nicely...
Thread rules
Please respect other player's opinions, even if they differ from yours
No gifs
No flame bait
No shade
Speak out, speak up and Sim on
Peace
Simbourne
12
Comments
Sims 4 is a step up from Sims 3 in some ways, and a step down. But that's my opinion. People were divided about Sims 3. I don't like Sims 2, and it's never interested me.
Play styles exist in every open ended game. They have existed for a long, long time.
I'm a Simmer as well, and I openly enjoy Sims 4.
All we can do is wait and hope that they actually start to listen to us again and produce content that can appeal to everyone.
Your opinion is wrong, mine is right.
🐸🐸🐸🐸 all
i am better than all of you
Now that's set aside.
Every game franchise reaches a point where the developers try something new, or focus on a different aspect of the series. Many times many players like the old ways better and many like the new approach, The Sims 3 caused a divide in the community in release, in a couple of years things will return to normal and all this nonsense will be left behind.
Indeed, this is one of the points I am making. Usually you always have a phase or period in any popular series when things aren't as popular as before.
Apparently this happened to The Simpsons around the late 90s, some of the Hardcore fans apparently hated the direction of the series and some say it never recovered from the 'golden period' of the early 90s but I never even noticed.
Lego itself has gone through phases like this, I even stumbled across a fan site, slightly outdated now where one major Lego fan who is in fact the same age as me was reviewing sets from the 90s and said the same things I had been thinking for years. Certain themes and sets from Lego seemed to have high periods with a large number of popular sets and then other years when the number of sets in the theme was minimal or the sets were even 'watered down' somewhat.
The main reasons Sims 4 fails to succeed over Sims 3 is because it lacks all the things that made Sims 3 great! The open world and create a style features are without a doubt the two main reasons most people wanted to play the game (Sims 3). Those are the things that were constantly being advertised when Sims 3 was in development. All the fans became excited.
When Sims 4 was announced, all they talked about were the emotions, create a sim, and build mode. They hardly bothered to speak about the gameplay. Why? Because they knew it lacked so many things, so they attempted to sell us the other features instead.
The Sims 3 was an overall success because of the features (mainly open world and create a style). Even though the game often lagged a lot for many players (mostly because of their computers and not the game itself), people still enjoyed it because it was all about freedom! The fact that the slogan for Sims 4 is "You Rule" is quite laughable... especially since we lack A LOT of freedom and creativity in that game compared to Sims 3.
The Sims isn't a victim to its own success. The Sims is a victim to a greedy company that only cares about money and not their fans. Sims and Sims 2 were filled with glorious content and features because EA actually somewhat cared about their fans. The Sims 3 was still full of content and features, but the store often pushed the limits. The Sims 4 is a pure cash cow. The fact that they thought they could get away with lacking base game features is an example of this (especially since most people paid between $60-$100 for the game). Also, the 'Spooky' pack is another great example. The only reason they released that was for Halloween... because honestly, what else would we use it for? We don't even have Seasons in the game yet, so what use does it have overall!? And let's not forget the fact that they basically charged $10 for a buffet table and then another $10 for hot tubs (both of which have been included in base games prior to Sims 4). Yes, I'm aware that the packs they came with have other things as well, but you can't deny the fact that the main selling points were the "premium content". And while I'm on stuff packs, didn't they say in the beginning that game packs were supposed to replace them!? What happened to that!? The Sims 4 is also the game that's being developed by the same people who claimed making a bear in the 'Outdoor Retreat' game pack was "too hard", so I really shouldn't be surprised at all this.
-End rant-
Sims 1: Hot Date
Sims 2: Seasons
Sims 2: Happy Holiday Stuff
Sims 3: Seasons
Sims 3: 70's, 80's, & 90's Stuff
Sims 4: Seasons
Sims 4: Paranormal Stuff
Sims 4: Strangerville Game Pack
Indeed I am concerned about the whole 'people will buy it because it has The Sims on it' but then again, there was a lot of people who were 'on the fence' during the pre release days and many of them never crossed that fence.
As for Open World and CASt being the main features of TS3, there is more to TS3 than that but they are indeed two excellent examples of an improvement from TS2. I do like how they handled the traits as well which work better than the old fashioned personality points.
I am not sure if I would blame the devs for making the things the way they are though, I wouldn't know what goes on in the office but devs may or may not have an overall say in what gets said during a games development. Personally I think that TS4 was being rushed out, namely due to the fact the game was being changed from Olympus to TS4 which gave less time than needed to make the game 'fleshed out' and patching things in does seem to be fairer was to add content back in but it is not always the developers who make these choices of what gets added or what does not get added at each time.
A big reason people hate Sims 4 so much is that as humans we really hate change think about it how many times have you heard people complain about the world we live in and how much better the past was. We don't like things that are unfamiliar or new this is one of the reasons fast food chains are so popular cause we want the same proccesesd stuff we got last time and we are comfortable with it and fear disappointment. The biggest complaints aren't about things that make the game worse but things that were in the game last time but aren't now. Get Together is disliked alot because it's not pets or generations and goes into unfamiliar territory. People can never be pleased and there will always be disappointment in every game.
Expectations are inevitable, and can be a real curse for an established franchise like The Sims. And gamers are notoriously loud and unpleasant with their dissatisfaction (even if Simmers fall toward the mellower end of the spectrum). It's the other side of the "established market" sword, and you don't just need to be as good as the last iteration, you need to compete with nostalgia for previous iterations.
Case in point, my current household are recently married and just had a pair of twins, currently toddlers. Sure, you can do some stuff with toddlers, but even with Generations, it's rather limited, and I have done most of it. A few more readings from skill books, maybe a bit more time with the xylophone and peg box, and I'll be ready to invited the Granddads over for the birthday party.
And maybe that life stage really is some players' absolute favorite... But really, it's hardly the heart of the game. Take it away, though, and through nostalgia it seems like a lost Golden Age of Simming - even if it's not lost. I mean, The Sims 3 is still there. It runs. I am playing it now.
So yes, success of a franchise can be a liability as much as an asset. But for players, it comes down to finding what you enjoy in the game, enjoying that, and excusing the flaws. Because there are always flaws. That's just how things are. I am sure the creative folks at Maxis are looking carefully at what is popular and unpopular in 4. Hopefully 4 will improve and 5 will be better. But for now, I have potties to empty and kids to hose down. I can be patient.
i love myself, tbh.
this was a joke please don't hurt me!
Oh yeah, The Sims 3 definitely has many more great features that just made the game so amazing!
And maybe the developers don't necessarily have a say in what happens to the game. I suppose it's probably a bit of an exaggeration to blame them. But, Sims 4 was definitely rushed. I completely forgot about the whole "Olympus" concept. Thanks for reminding me! lol That right there should be enough to show that this game wasn't even meant to be a main Sims game, but, like I said, they knew most people would buy nearly anything with "The Sims" on it. EA and Maxis are just greedy!
Sims 1: Hot Date
Sims 2: Seasons
Sims 2: Happy Holiday Stuff
Sims 3: Seasons
Sims 3: 70's, 80's, & 90's Stuff
Sims 4: Seasons
Sims 4: Paranormal Stuff
Sims 4: Strangerville Game Pack
@Sindocat Good points, I myself haven't seen everything in TS3 yet
My W/list: http://store.thesims3.com/myWishlist.html?persona=rosey1579
I don't like being stuck in a funk so when I lose interest I just have to move on else where. I lost interest in TS4 for a few months but never actually gave up on it as I still like to try out CC in Cas.
I do find the game boring but It's mostly narrowed down to the fact that I've sorta lost interest in the series all together. I'm not as passionate about the game as I used to be but I'm not willing to give it up just yet
I myself do think that it is time for pets and some seasons to be in the basegame
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So far there are two no three game companies I like and here's why:
Nintendo
The one game company to save the whole video game industry. But not only that, I grew up with Nintendo and really enjoy the games. They may recycle a lot but they know how to produce quality and fun games on top of adding new gameplay to make the game still feel familiar but at the same time a new experience. To be honest though, I didn't even want a Wii U and do not even own one...yet. But just ordered one because hey, those games look fun and I'm missing out. By the way guys, if you want to buy a Wii U hurry up and go to Best Buy, in-store or online. They have a deal for the Wii U Deluxe with Mario Kart 8 pre-installed for $249.99.
Techland
If I'm not mistaken my first experience with them is with Dead Island. There were quite a bit of major glitches when they launched that game. Like the one where you play online with someone and then when you quit it never saved your progress. They stopped working on DLC and went back to correct all the major issues as soon as possible. Now that's not only integrity but amazing customer service. This is the real "Players are First" mentality. Now there's Dying Light and they are giving everyone who owns the game a free enhanced version instead of releasing an entirely different version to buy again for those who already own the game. They are not greedy, they care about the quality of their worksmanship and they care about giving the players the best experience. This company I definitely take a liking to.
TellTale
I only have a few games like The Walking Dead/400 Days/Season 2, The Wolf Among Us, Tales of Monkey Island and Sam & Max. I don't know really anything about Minecraft but I think I might get that too, it looks fun. I hope some day they could team up with Capcom and do something Resident Evil related. Moving on, I like their games but they definitely could work on the console versions because it does pause a bit and stutters but other than that their games are very interesting. It was crazy, I can't remember which episode of TWD it was, maybe 4 or 5 but so many people was trying to download when it released that their servers went down. They were a little surprised and didn't expect that many people and so their servers couldn't handle all that, lol. But it got sorted out within a few hours. I can't wait until February when TWD: Michonne comes out and to see how will this relate to Season 3. And now they have a Batman series coming out next year, I'm getting that too. Man this is an amazing game company as well.
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Footsteps even lighter”