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The Writers' Workshop

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  • lizzielilyylizzielilyy Posts: 4,863 Member
    @CathyTea I'm excited to see this! I haven't even started on mine yet haha :P
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  • CathyTeaCathyTea Posts: 23,088 Member
    Lizzie1234 wrote: »
    @CathyTea I'm excited to see this! I haven't even started on mine yet haha :P

    Cool! It will be all fresh! :)
    Cathy Tea's SimLit Anthology

    Do you also play The Elder Scrolls Online? You can find me there as CathyTea, too!
  • lizzielilyylizzielilyy Posts: 4,863 Member
    I'm tempted to make a piece for a bit of background to my new challenge. It's too big to be narrated but I could use it to make some short pieces to doctor my writing :p I've always been interested in royal stories so it could be an opportunity to develop it :p
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  • CathyTeaCathyTea Posts: 23,088 Member
    Lizzie1234 wrote: »
    I'm tempted to make a piece for a bit of background to my new challenge. It's too big to be narrated but I could use it to make some short pieces to doctor my writing :p I've always been interested in royal stories so it could be an opportunity to develop it :p

    Sounds really cool!
    Cathy Tea's SimLit Anthology

    Do you also play The Elder Scrolls Online? You can find me there as CathyTea, too!
  • lizzielilyylizzielilyy Posts: 4,863 Member
    Well I'm about to be disconnected from the internet so speak later! <3
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  • CathyTeaCathyTea Posts: 23,088 Member
    edited August 2015
    Hi, guys! Blogs have spoiled me--I love to post as soon as I write!

    So I've gone ahead and posted the story that I'd like to workshop next week, as well as the chapter that comes after it.

    The draft I'll be workshopping is the second chapter in a new picture-less series of FanFic I'm writing that explores the lives and relationships of TS4 pre-mades and invented characters.

    Here's the chapter I'll be workshopping: Across the Canyon.

    Here's the chapter that comes before it, The Wedding of Nancy's Ex and the one that comes after, The Connoisseur of Boredom.

    I haven't completely formulated the questions I want to pose next week, but I know that they'll have something to do with the suspension of disbelief and any places where that cracks and the piece falls apart. :)

    EDIT: Because my main blog is child-friendly, and because I want the freedom with my FanFic series to explore adult themes, I've created a new blog for it: https://ts4fanfic.wordpress.com
    Post edited by CathyTea on
    Cathy Tea's SimLit Anthology

    Do you also play The Elder Scrolls Online? You can find me there as CathyTea, too!
  • lizzielilyylizzielilyy Posts: 4,863 Member
    Ooh exciting! I'll be sure to read through those once I'm back home :D
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  • OJennOJenn Posts: 8,429 Member
    Hello all, stumbled across this thread as I was looking through the Stories and Legacies section. Felt I could benefit from this greatly so here I am! Looking forward to feedback and hopefully providing some of my own, there is always room for improvement I say.

    - Jen
  • lizzielilyylizzielilyy Posts: 4,863 Member
    @OJenn welcome! Nice to meet you :3
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  • CathyTeaCathyTea Posts: 23,088 Member
    OJenn wrote: »
    Hello all, stumbled across this thread as I was looking through the Stories and Legacies section. Felt I could benefit from this greatly so here I am! Looking forward to feedback and hopefully providing some of my own, there is always room for improvement I say.

    - Jen

    Hi, Jen! Glad you found your way here! Would you like to have your work read during the week of Aug. 24? We're doing two writers' work per week, and we've already got one writer set up for that week.
    Cathy Tea's SimLit Anthology

    Do you also play The Elder Scrolls Online? You can find me there as CathyTea, too!
  • aroseinbloomaroseinbloom Posts: 3,456 Member
    Okay...I've read your story through once. I am looking forward to your questions.

    I think there is a lot to learn from this group.
  • CathyTeaCathyTea Posts: 23,088 Member
    edited August 2015
    I think I'm ready to pose my questions to readers.

    First, a little background about this piece. We'll be reading the second chapter of what is feeling like a novel-length work. It's FanFic, centered around mostly TS4 pre-mades with a few new characters introduced. It will be told in limited third person, with the point-of-view person switching by chapter. In the first chapter, Nancy is the perspective character. In the second, it is Clarissa Moon. In the third, it is Malcolm Landgraab. The fourth will be Geoffrey Landgraab, the fifth will be Cassandra, and then we will move through the perspectives of those characters in the subsequent chapters.

    You're invited to read the first chapter, The Wedding of Nancy's Ex, and the third chapter, The Connoisseur of Boredom so that you see how this fits within what's been drafted so far, but it isn't necessary to.

    Here's the chapter we'll be workshopping: Across the Canyon.

    My questions:

    1. Do you get drawn into this world (and mood) as you read this story? If so, at what point in the story did you find yourself "in it"? And, at what points did you pop out of the world of the story? What, in your view, caused you to pop out?

    If you didn't get drawn in, what do you feel prevented you from entering this world? What specific changes or shifts do you suggest that would allow you to let yourself enter this world as a reader?

    2. What are your feelings towards the characters in this chapter? Do any seem unbelievable? If so, why? As much as possible, describe what led towards your feelings about these characters.

    3. What seems to be the theme of this chapter? Can you see that theme being carried out and explored in a novel-length work?

    4. What are the major tensions in this chapter? What potential for resolution is there?

    5. What major images stand out? How might these images serve as symbols? What are they symbols of, and how do these symbols connect with the chapter's theme?

    6. Were there any sentences or phrases that felt awkward or that caused you to pause as a reader? If so, which ones? What suggestions do you have?

    7. I'd love to hear your general responses: strengths, what might be improved, as well as your personal feelings of engagement and lack thereof.



    Please know that I've been through this process dozens of times (not with this story, but with others--and with VERY tough readers), so I have learned the knack of not taking this type of feedback personally. I crave your honest responses! And I understand well that not every piece of writing is for every reader, so I will certainly not be offended or hurt if this work is not your cup of tea! :)
    Cathy Tea's SimLit Anthology

    Do you also play The Elder Scrolls Online? You can find me there as CathyTea, too!
  • DavidMCSessyDavidMCSessy Posts: 1,148 Member
    @CathyTea I can answer to your first question immediately, but I will wait to answer all of them when I reread the chapter these days. I hope I make up my mind to do it.

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  • CathyTeaCathyTea Posts: 23,088 Member
    @CathyTea I can answer to your first question immediately, but I will wait to answer all of them when I reread the chapter these days. I hope I make up my mind to do it.

    It's cool with me if you answer these piece-meal, one-at-a-time rather than feeling like you have to wait and deliver it all at once. So if you want to just chat about these as the responses come to you, that's fine and might make it easier for me to process the responses. The biggest challenge I have in face-to-face workshops is getting this barrage of response at once and feeling overwhelmed, so I actually prefer to get the response to one question at a time.
    Cathy Tea's SimLit Anthology

    Do you also play The Elder Scrolls Online? You can find me there as CathyTea, too!
  • Julyvee94Julyvee94 Posts: 6,694 Member
    edited August 2015
    @CathyTea I'll start with question 6 because that was the easiest for me to answer ^^ yes, there were a few phrases I stumbled across.

    6. Were there any sentences or phrases that felt awkward or that caused you to pause as a reader? If so, which ones? What suggestions do you have?

    She often found herself at the kitchen window, facing south and gazing into the shadow’s deep purple. Something about depth, she told herself, and what can’t be seen.

    I know that incomplete scentences is a thing in writing but still this caused me to paused as I wondered what it was about. "Standing her is something...", "Being drawn to those shadows..." Dunno I just wonder what the missing words are.

    There was that sharp line, right inside, cutting across her chest. She gazed into the shadow and breathed.

    This confused me, though I understand what you probably mean, my first thought the "line" was a line from the sun or the shadow, but that made no sense.

    She could see why Geoffrey had been drawn to Nancy. What is it about a secret power that is so irresistible?

    I didn't really understand this question, but maybe that is because I didn't read the chapter before and after this one yes. What is "a secret power" supposed to mean?

    She had learned that one way to greet pain was to create space within, and so she inhaled the scent of Indian green tea, she let the sun’s light shine in her eyes, and she opened her heart in silence. The edge softened and eased.

    Is this about the bitter edge to Nancy? If so, I'm confused because I thought Nancy's bitter edge was something about Nancy's personality and you can't really change that by inhaling tea right? Or is this about the "sharp line, cutting across her chest"? If so, I would suggest using "sharp line" instead of edge, so readers don't get the reference wrong ^^

    I hope this helped :) I will answer the other questions soon.

    PS: I know this is not about praise, but there was something deeply beautiful about this chapter. I like your writing style ^^
  • lizzielilyylizzielilyy Posts: 4,863 Member
    Hey guys!! Great to see you've started us off @CathyTea I have wifi at the hotel but will be with you and be able to post my piece tomorrow or Monday :3 hope you're all well :p
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  • CathyTeaCathyTea Posts: 23,088 Member
    @Julyvee94 Thank you so much for being the first one to respond!

    I realized that there's an important part of the protocol that I forgot to mention on my Procedures page.

    During the discussion, the writer is mostly listening silently. Readers may, if they need clarification or have a specific question, ask the writer a question, and the writer is free to answer that question. However, the writer does not participate in the discussion, except as a listener.

    It can be useful if readers discuss points with themselves, sharing points they agree upon, and discussing points of disagreement or their different ways of viewing, interpreting, and understanding the work. These discussions can be very useful for the readers, as they explore the work together, and they are very useful for the writer, who listens as a silent observer.

    When the discussion is wrapping up (which will likely be towards the end of the week for us) the writer is free to ask follow up questions and also to provide her own perspective on some of the points that were raised. This is not a defense of the work-- this is, instead, the writer's discussion of what she was trying to accomplish, of her vision.

    So, as readers, don't be surprised when the writer doesn't reply to your points: this is how it should be. And please feel free to respond and discuss together points that you agree upon and points that you see differently from each other.

    Feel free, too, to address things that stand out to you, even if the writer didn't ask about them. Knowing what is the dominant impression and what most stands out to you as a reader is so valuable to the writer. Feel free, too, to share what you like, what you don't like, and your emotional responses. While the goal of the workshop is not to solicit praise, don't be afraid of praising those aspects that you feel deserve it.

    It can be really effective and useful for the writer to receive a full response: both intellectual and emotional.

    Since we're discussing two works this week, please also mention at the top of your post which work you are referring to.

    Let me know, please, if you have questions about this process! :)
    Cathy Tea's SimLit Anthology

    Do you also play The Elder Scrolls Online? You can find me there as CathyTea, too!
  • capturedmusecapturedmuse Posts: 300 Member
    Wow, the mental college workshop throwback whoot whoot. *pulls out old lady glasses*
  • CathyTeaCathyTea Posts: 23,088 Member
    Wow, the mental college workshop throwback whoot whoot. *pulls out old lady glasses*

    Hey! I'm wearing my old lady glasses! :)

    (The writer can respond to heckling from the peanut gallery :wink: )
    Cathy Tea's SimLit Anthology

    Do you also play The Elder Scrolls Online? You can find me there as CathyTea, too!
  • capturedmusecapturedmuse Posts: 300 Member
    edited August 2015
    Feedback on @CathyTea 's work since I had the time right now and am terrible with getting things done unless I do them right that minute. I hope this helps!

    1. Do you get drawn into this world (and mood) as you read this story? If so, at what point in the story did you find yourself "in it"? And, at what points did you pop out of the world of the story? What, in your view, caused you to pop out?
    The moment when Clarissa sat and considered how she must seem and sound from Nancy’s point of view, it’s something that I do constantly and a struggle I find myself at odds with every day. It is something that usually isn’t portrayed in Sim Lit, that deep introspective balance and genuine feeling of insecurity. I am not 100% sure if it is just because it’s something I can relate with so deeply, or because it’s a part of just being human, however, that was my ‘point of being drawn in’.

    2. What are your feelings towards the characters in this chapter? Do any seem unbelievable? If so, why? As much as possible, describe what led towards your feelings about these characters.
    Touching back on my previous answer, it was very believable, more so perhaps because I read the prior chapter. Nancy is a hard edge with an inside that is thirstily seeking to be more than her exterior. Both women are seeking their own forms of happiness and when looking at each other they do see the short-comings of their existences. I think it’s lovely that Nancy’s words conflicted with her actions and continually do so; she’s growing, hitting a less visible mid-life crisis as it were. The only issue I may have is her lack of reaction to Nancy’s comment about Geoffrey never contacting Malcolm, though I love that Nancy said it as she seems to be the protective type which is why her relationship with Bella just ‘works’.

    3. What seems to be the theme of this chapter? Can you see that theme being carried out and explored in a novel-length work?
    This question is a bit hard, as it seems to have a multitude of themes, some more than others can only be built from reading the works all together… At first it feels as though the theme should be forgiveness, but then you realize that neither woman has anything to apologize for. Reflection perhaps? Realizing one’s place in the altered states of their relationships? It touches of course upon the varying depths and tastes of love lightly, as I didn’t find any bruises from being bludgeoned with them, but instead felt them touched upon in a way that merely left a taste in my mouth that I cannot tell if I like. Mechanically and technically they were handled well, but whether they hit the right chord with me, I have no idea. And that sense of me not knowing, I like. Open-ended themes that bleed into one another are always refreshing and really brings to light the more adult-feel you were going for, that one can easily see in small touches within your other works. And here you went for the throat, and I like it.

    4. What are the major tensions in this chapter? What potential for resolution is there?
    The tensions were not major to me and I liked that, perhaps some might feel your handling too light, but it was realistic and that is the important part. Far too often Sim Lit gets an over the top sense of drama that moves the beautiful into the tacky. However, I do realize that my cup of tea is not everyone’s and I may be in a minority. Everything feels resolved, Clarissa’s feelings were all addressed and felt complete, perhaps less closure would be nice, the ending of the chapter felt like the ending of a television season and I felt completely satisfied not reading further, which I admit I have not yet. Perhaps this is a bad thing, but I personally don’t always want to feel like I have to read the next part right now by creating artificial tension. I’m curious as to your thoughts regarding the way you ended the chapter? Was Malcom calling needed? Would perhaps having her merely checking her phone and realizing that no one is calling be better to leave a bit of tension there be better as that seems to be what you are aiming for?

    5. What major images stand out? How might these images serve as symbols? What are they symbols of, and how do these symbols connect with the chapter's theme?
    The lighting imagery stood out to me, however, not by my own astute eyes but by very heavy handling on your end, which isn’t a bad thing. It’s something that I’ve seen done before, though not by you (aside from the purple side. Which actually made me thirsty) each chapter I’ve read seemed to deal with colors and feelings and the balance therein. I am curious to see how much it stood out to others or if it just stood out to me. Everything was handled in a light fashion aside from the lighting which was bold and much heavier, leaving little room for other imagery to possibly be the main focus even if I wanted them to be. In hindsight, focus on the tea making, why she picked that particular tea, the coloring of it, and how it relates to her would have been a more abstract imagery option.

    6. Were there any sentences or phrases that felt awkward or that caused you to pause as a reader? If so, which ones? What suggestions do you have?
    Not to me, though I’m not sure if it’s because I’ve been reading a lot of questionably translated work lately, or because I was much more caught up in the actual meaning rather than the grammar and sentence structure. On my simple reading of the chapter nothing stood out, or at least nothing that couldn’t be hand waved as a simple artistic manifestation. I only read it once to give as much feedback as possible from a standpoint of brevity and neutrality. To see how much depth I could pull from your work without studying overly much as though it were a legal tome of some such.

    7. I'd love to hear your general responses: strengths, what might be improved, as well as your personal feelings of engagement and lack thereof.
    I feel as though I covered these in my other answers, if you have anything you wish for me to expand on please ask as I’m sure I could drone on for days, or at least another thousand words. Thanks for the unique, Sim Lit read. Oh, and as I left in a comment, I am very jealous of your bravery to go picture less. I, as you may know, hate pictures, hate sorting them, hate taking them, etc… though they are good for me to help remember exactly how a scene played out, but I write notes so frutt (new favorite science fiction curse words btw) it. The lack of pictures made your work stronger to me.
    Post edited by capturedmuse on
  • lizzielilyylizzielilyy Posts: 4,863 Member
    Hi guys, I'm terribly sorry but my house's internet connection has, for all intents and purposes, broken down. I have no idea how long it will be before it is up and running and can only access the forums on my phone using data that doesn't come cheap haha!
    So I'd like to apologise for not being able to submit a piece for workshop and if there is anybody who is planned for next week or later that is prepared now and would like to swap with me, could you just PM me or post here so we can organise it?
    I may be connected later today, tomorrow or not for a while it's completely up in the air so for now I'm suggesting somebody else takes my place and I will attempt to help with the work shopping of @CathyTea's piece in the meantime.
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  • CathyTeaCathyTea Posts: 23,088 Member
    Lizzie1234 wrote: »
    Hi guys, I'm terribly sorry but my house's internet connection has, for all intents and purposes, broken down. I have no idea how long it will be before it is up and running and can only access the forums on my phone using data that doesn't come cheap haha!
    So I'd like to apologise for not being able to submit a piece for workshop and if there is anybody who is planned for next week or later that is prepared now and would like to swap with me, could you just PM me or post here so we can organise it?
    I may be connected later today, tomorrow or not for a while it's completely up in the air so for now I'm suggesting somebody else takes my place and I will attempt to help with the work shopping of @CathyTea's piece in the meantime.

    I'm also wondering if we want to just do one piece per week. It seems that we're not going to be a very large group, so that might work fine. Then, if the group grows through time, we can expand to two a week, if we feel we can handle reading two at a time.

    What do you all think? Shall we just aim at one per week for now, with Lizzie going next week?
    Cathy Tea's SimLit Anthology

    Do you also play The Elder Scrolls Online? You can find me there as CathyTea, too!
  • lizzielilyylizzielilyy Posts: 4,863 Member
    Sounds perfect to me, then we can add people as the group expands :3 flipping internet haha!
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  • friendsfan367friendsfan367 Posts: 29,362 Member
    i had game issue when i got that fixed i had a internet issue now that everything is coperating i can come around more.
  • lizzielilyylizzielilyy Posts: 4,863 Member
    @friendsfan367 happy birthday by the way! glad to have you back :p
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