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!! Attention LL owners and EVERYONE ELSE - spawner alert !!

I am posting this thread here because it involves a lot made for Lunar Lakes (although this particular lot was not posted in the LL sharing thread).

I heard rumors of the next expansion having faeries in it, so when I saw a LL faerie lot, I decided to give it a try. I will not name the creator, but I probably should. If this lot is yours, please remove it and correct the problems before you re-upload.

Here is the first problem with the lot:

spawneraboveground.jpg

Do you see all those extra spawners? Some of the spawners shown are for a junkyard. Some are butterflies and some are fish. And it is much worse than it looks, because some of the spawners shown are three and four separate spawners all one on top of the other, so they deceptively look like just one spawner when they are actually many.

But that isn't even the whole story. I made a one tile basement, so I could look underground, and this is what I found:

spawnerbelowground.jpg

Again, it is worse than it looks, because some of the spawners are three and four deep.

I deleted a total of 115 spawners from this one lot!

Here is the kicker, though: I placed this lot and left it where it landed. BUT, if I had rotated the lot once to position it in my world, that 115 count would have jumped to 230 spawners. And if I rotated the lot twice to position it, I would have had 460 spawners on the lot! Three rotations would have given me 920 spawners.

Are you seeing what happens, and the danger that represents? Do you have any idea how much game computation it takes to keep track of that many spawners? Now think about how many other lots may have similar problems with way too many spawners per lot, in your world.

And people are wondering why they are getting errors trying to save their games ....

Please, people, check your lots by typing in the console, testingcheatsenabled true and then typing in the console again buydebug on, so you can see the spawners on the lot in buy or build mode, before uploading them. Find the extra spawners and delete them, both above ground and below ground. To be really safe, do not upload spawners on lots, at all.

And for the downloaders, if you rotated a lot that has spawners on it, check your lots by typing in the console, testingcheatsenabled true and then typing in the console again buydebug on, to find the multiplied spawners and delete them.

If you have never checked any of your lots, then now is the time to check all your lots both above and below ground. Even the EA lots can be a problem, especially the junkyards. So check everything.

You should also know that simply deleting the lot will NOT clear the spawners. They remain behind to infect the next thing built on that "empty" lot. That is how junkyard spawners got into the faerie lot above. I have also found that while I am able to delete the spawners above ground in an "empty" lot, sometimes the ones below ground hide (even if I looked underground) until something else is built on the lot. Then they will show up in the basement.

The other problem with the lot above: it not only had multiple instances of CC, but the CC was still encrypted -- it had not been fixed with RigFix, yet. And that means every CC object would conflict with Pets and every expansion or patch after Pets. We are several patches beyond that point, so there is simply no excuse for using CC that has not been RIG fixed. It will corrupt people's games.

Again, with all this going on, it is no wonder people are having problems with saving errors and corruption in their games.

Uploaders, get the TSR RigFix or one of the other RIG fixers available out there, and clean up your CC before uploading it. You are hurting people if you don't. And if you are using the old encrypted CC because you are pre-pets, and not patched up to date, then don't upload CC with your lots. Anyone who is patched will be hurt by it.

Downloaders, not only should you check your own CC with RigFix, but also check your DCCache and DCBackup, which should both be run through RigFix. That will clean up anything you may have inadvertently brought into your game by downloading a lot that is using old unfixed CC. Then be sure to run RigFix on all your uploaded lot sims3packs. If RigFix won't clean them up, then don't use the lot in that package. Instead, save the lot in your game to a sims3pack, AFTER you have used RigFix on your DCCache and DCBackup. Then the lot should have safe CC in it.

Everyone should RIG fix all their CC, and throw away the old unfixed version, once you test to make sure the fix worked right. If you ever have to fresh install your game, you don't want to mistakenly use the bad unfixed CC.

Please try to be safe, everyone. These things, left uncorrected, can be game killers.



Comments

  • SunnyBelleSunnyBelle Posts: 1,262 Member
    edited April 2012
    Thank you so much for the alert and education. Would never had thought about spawners this way! :)
  • EternitysShadowEternitysShadow Posts: 1,194 Member
    edited April 2012
    I don't have showtime but good detective work :-) it'd be awesome if this helps just one person.
  • SkadiSkadi Posts: 51 New Member
    edited April 2012
    It's a lovely lot, but that would create an insane amount of lag. Excellent post Amjoie.
  • CK213CK213 Posts: 20,525 Member
    edited April 2012
    I have Nectary lot. I was shocked how many duplicate spawners it had.
    The%20Goths.png?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds
  • maria_loves_alexmaria_loves_alex Posts: 9,054 Member
    edited April 2012
    thats crazy! I might have to check my lots with spawners in them next time Im playing
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  • itm1000itm1000 Posts: 48
    edited April 2012
    What a great post. I didn't even know this could happen. Something to check out in my own game and research more.
  • mangoesandlimesmangoesandlimes Posts: 2,623 Member
    edited April 2012
    CK213 wrote:
    I have Nectary lot. I was shocked how many duplicate spawners it had.

    My Nectary lot? I thought I'd left out any bug, gem, fish, etc. spawners. As far as I know, it's just plant spawners to give it a full vineyard feel. It didn't seem like a lot more plant spawners than the default LL parks to me. Those don't duplicate when the lot is rotated, right? If my nectary lot has a problem, please let me know so I can fix it and reupload it.
  • amjoieamjoie Posts: 3,516 Member
    edited April 2012
    CK213 wrote:
    I have Nectary lot. I was shocked how many duplicate spawners it had.

    My Nectary lot? I thought I'd left out any bug, gem, fish, etc. spawners. As far as I know, it's just plant spawners to give it a full vineyard feel. It didn't seem like a lot more plant spawners than the default LL parks to me. Those don't duplicate when the lot is rotated, right? If my nectary lot has a problem, please let me know so I can fix it and reupload it.

    It may have been the nectary lot, although there was more than one nectary lot so we don't know for sure which one is being referenced, but it could also have been the empty lot on which the nectary lot was placed. Remember, empty lots contain all the spawners ever located there, even after a lot was bulldozed to make that lot empty.

    To check, just place a brand new lot with the in game editor. Then place the questionable lot onto the brand new lot, without rotation. Now check the questionable lot. If it has spawners, make sure they are ONLY where they belong.

    But it is safest to not use spawners in an uploaded lot, especially one that will probably be rotated for placement.

    (If I remember correctly, I mistakenly left a spawner in my LL Mall of Assimilation lot. I did warn people, but I assumed everyone knew what I was talking about, so that they would be able to easily fix the problem if they rotated my lot. However, the responses to this thread now lead me to believe that the problem with spawners, which has been around since the base game and affects everyone, is not as well known as I supposed.

    So now I'm a bit worried about my very popular Mall of Assimilation lot. It's just a couple fish spawners, so it probably won't hurt anything, but still .... If you are one of the many people who downloaded it, and if you rotated it, please delete the extra fish spawners by the government center.)

    I honestly thought most people knew about this, already, and it was just a "reminder" thread. I'm really glad I said something, if many people had never heard of the problem, before.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • Jopie58Jopie58 Posts: 545 New Member
    edited April 2012
    Thank you so much for the info, i had no idea about any of this.
    I'll be checking my game now thoroughly, it defenitly would explain things i'm experiencing.

    I think it makes it very important for builders as well as players to remove any spawners before uploading/and or installing.
    Can spawners be "detected" by Delphi's Sims3PackCleanInstaller tool?
  • MmdrgntobldrgnMmdrgntobldrgn Posts: 6,680 Member
    edited April 2012
    I have a few questions
    1) Is this a problem with all uploaded lots with spawners?
    2) is this a problem limited to those with cc and/or mods?
    3) is this something new with the ST and the new patches?

    As a small time builder of specialized lots, I would really love to know the answer to these questions. In regards to questions 2 & 3, I run a clean game no cc, no mods, and since I don't have ST I haven't patched to the newest patches. But, I have built a few lots with spawners, and one was on a former junkyard lot (that was a pain to find all of it's spawners). I would love to know that others can safely place my lots with out spawner corruption. :(
    edit
    ok so this is a base game issue??? or a world issue ???
    this does put a potential crimp on some of the lots I want to build ......
    Post edited by Unknown User on
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  • simhead70simhead70 Posts: 614 Member
    edited April 2012
    Thank you so much for posting this... :D
    b141edb2-262e-48c6-a432-99db802758b0_zpspfbmwyih.jpg
  • amjoieamjoie Posts: 3,516 Member
    edited April 2012
    Jopie58 wrote:
    Can spawners be "detected" by Delphi's Sims3PackCleanInstaller tool?

    No. The only way to see them is typing "testingcheatsenabled true" and then "buydebug on" in the console. After that they can be viewed in buy or build mode. Be sure to build a one tile "basement" so you can go down a level and find the underground spawners.
    I have a few questions
    1) Is this a problem with all uploaded lots with spawners?
    2) is this a problem limited to those with cc and/or mods?
    3) is this something new with the ST and the new patches?

    As a small time builder of specialized lots, I would really love to know the answer to these questions. In regards to questions 2 & 3, I run a clean game no cc, no mods, and since I don't have ST I haven't patched to the newest patches. But, I have built a few lots with spawners, and one was on a former junkyard lot (that was a pain to find all of it's spawners). I would love to know that others can safely place my lots with out spawner corruption. :(
    edit
    ok so this is a base game issue??? or a world issue ???
    this does put a potential crimp on some of the lots I want to build ......

    The problem is how spawners are coded in the base game and every stuff pack, world, and expansion after that. The problem is endemic. It affects every single lot with spawners, whether made by EA or created by one of us. No lot with spawners is exempt. Even the lots you make and save to your library bin have the problem.

    CC has absolutely no effect on the problem. Having a clean game with no added CC will not help you, here. You can do nothing to protect yourself from base game hard-wired code.

    The only method anyone can use to place a lot with spawners in an absolutely safe way is to see the spawners, so you can remove the extra ones. The only way to see them is by typing "testingcheatsenabled true" and then "buydebug on" in the console. After that they can be viewed in buy or build mode. Be sure to check both above and below ground.

    The spawners themselves are nothing to be afraid about. It is the multiplying abundance of them, sight unseen, that is dangerous. If you always check your lots by typing "testingcheatsenabled true" and then "buydebug on" in the console, you will not have any difficulties with spawners, because you can remove them.

    However, apparently the understanding of how spawners multiply is not universal in the simming community, as I once believed it to be. So, obviously, it would be prudent to NOT include any spawners in lots you upload, or even in lots you save to your own library bin if you usually do not play with testingcheatsenabled or buydebug on. And always make a one tile basement, so you can go below ground and clean up any unwanted spawners, there.

    I know I'm repeating myself over and over. But I don't want any ambiguity about this. It is a real problem, but fortunately one with a simple solution for those who know how to fix it, as I have explained above.

    Please tell everyone you know, about this. The more people understand, the better for all of us.
  • snowdove58snowdove58 Posts: 1,699 Member
    edited April 2012
    Soon after I got pets I decided to build a contest house on an empty lot in Hidden Springs. I decided to do the garden first and put on buydebug to get the plants. There were 2 rodent spawners on the lot. Since then I check every lot before building even if it has never been used before. Pets seems to have spawned them everywhere.
  • yoshi_dragur2012yoshi_dragur2012 Posts: 1,670 Member
    edited April 2012
    I always build my community lots with buydebug on. So I've noticed this issue for a while now. But I didn't realize it could become pandemic with folks not knowing about the issue and then uploading lots. I've only downloaded a few of the exchange. So I've been lucky so far that this bug issue has been restricted to my game.

    One exchange lot everyone needs to be on the lookout for on the exchange, is variations in the BP butterfly dome that came with LN EP. That's one community lot which has the potential to really hang/freeze a game. Especially if you've downloaded it into the EA version of the BP hood, which is already laggy to begin with. :?
  • Jopie58Jopie58 Posts: 545 New Member
    edited April 2012
    amjoie wrote:
    Jopie58 wrote:
    Can spawners be "detected" by Delphi's Sims3PackCleanInstaller tool?

    No. The only way to see them is typing "testingcheatsenabled true" and then "buydebug on" in the console. After that they can be viewed in buy or build mode. Be sure to build a one tile "basement" so you can go down a level and find the underground spawners.

    Good to know, thank you so much for bringing this to our attention, it's real important people know about this.

    Just so i understand it right if you don't have LL it's still an issue?
  • elanorbretonelanorbreton Posts: 14,518 Member
    edited April 2012
    Yes, it is still an issue without LL.

    I discovered it after the release of Pets when I was placing one of the horse Lots made by EA. I must have rotated it and replaced it a few times because I ended up with over 1000 spawners on the Lot! So I always check each Lot now for any spawners, even the empty Lots. It's surprising how many get around.

    Edit: By going down to basement level, I've also found trees floating around! Heaven knows how they came to be down there.
  • amjoieamjoie Posts: 3,516 Member
    edited April 2012
    Yes, it is still an issue without LL.

    I discovered it after the release of Pets when I was placing one of the horse Lots made by EA. I must have rotated it and replaced it a few times because I ended up with over 1000 spawners on the Lot! So I always check each Lot now for any spawners, even the empty Lots. It's surprising how many get around.

    Edit: By going down to basement level, I've also found trees floating around! Heaven knows how they came to be down there.

    Sometimes trees "fall" down into the basement and disappear up above. But sometimes they are in both places, so before you remove them below, check above. In some instances, replacing the tree will fix the problem. In some cases, though, you need to change the location of the tree or shrub, even just by half a square.

    If they are way off to the side, I may just leave them that way. But sometimes they are right above the basement, and then I work to figure out how to fix it. It's tricky, though, because they may be fine through five saves and then suddenly "fall." So it is kinda hit and miss. I have no idea why it happens.

    And yes, as stated above, it doesn't matter if you only have the base game, multiplying spawners is a problem. The base game, any stuff packs, any expansions, any worlds -- if you have Sims 3, you have the multiplying spawner problem.
  • menemene Posts: 2,322 Member
    edited April 2012
    Trees and shrubs are always falling into my basements. They seem to duplicate down there because the original is still above ground where it is supposed to be.
  • Katty0Katty0 Posts: 3,907 Member
    edited April 2012
    Would Twallans error trap help with this?? I have never checked for it :oops:

    I don't move much (at all really), or build much so is it still a problem?
  • Writin_RegWritin_Reg Posts: 28,907 Member
    edited April 2012
    It is one of the number one causes of lag and freezing in worlds - has been my experience as a world tester. Almost always when there is unexplained lag and freezing, with no stuck sims, and no holes in routing is issues like this. Every turn of a lot multiplies the spawners from base game with the exception of plant spawners. EA did this because when people bulldozed house lots to add their own building, the beautiful view buff was killed, so to keep that one buff on scenic lots it has become a nightmare of people who use spawners and then upload lots. Especially lots with fish on them, if the lot gets turned and fish spawn under buildings or in lawns it really causes some massive lag. I saw one house in a user created world where there were so many spawners under the Mansion built on the lot, all the furniture in the house had duplicated itself as well and stood in stacks outside the house. The main problem was it couldn't be seen unless you had enabled testing cheats and buydebug - even the stacks of furniture was invisible without that on. So now when I test worlds - especially where downloaded lots are used, i first check every single lot in town before I check for any other problems in a new world. In big worlds this takes a tester days.

    After I totally clean a lot, i add it to my library and then delete the original download of the house and make a new one for my collection of houses I keep for my own use.

    Mangoes - you are safe as plants don't multiply - seed spawners will, but not the plants. Your lot works delighfully.


    ETA - Nope there is nothing that helps with the landscaping falling through the ground and deleting it also deletes the ground level landscaping. There is no fix - even EA can't figure out why that happens, but it has always happened since the game came out. Just be wary of landscaping if you have tombs and other underground buildings so the falling content does not trap sims from climbing up out of these underground places.
    Post edited by Unknown User on

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  • mangoesandlimesmangoesandlimes Posts: 2,623 Member
    edited April 2012
    Writin_Reg wrote:
    Mangoes - you are safe as plants don't multiply - seed spawners will, but not the plants. Your lot works delighfully.

    Thank you! I haven't been able to get in my game to check the lot yet, so it's good to hear that it's not having problems.
  • amjoieamjoie Posts: 3,516 Member
    edited April 2012
    Katty0 wrote:
    Would Twallans error trap help with this?? I have never checked for it :oops:

    I don't move much (at all really), or build much so is it still a problem?

    I have no idea how it is coded, or exactly what error trap catches, so I cannot answer that.

    But, yes, it could still easily be a problem. Instead of wondering, though, why not just check all your lots, both above ground and by building a one tile "basement" also check underground. Check your lots by typing in the console, testingcheatsenabled true and then typing in the console again buydebug on, so you can see the spawners on the lot in buy or build mode.

    Once you fix a lot, save your game. And go on to the next lot. When all your lots are fixed, save again and restart your game. That will turn off everything in the console, and after all the changes, it is good to restart the game, anyway.

    Remember to use the testingcheatsenabled true and buydebug on again anytime you move or add a lot to your game. And if it is just a quick check, then you can turn off the two cheats by typing in the console again as before, but substituting the word false for true and then substituting the word off for on.

    Of course, you could just learn to play with those cheats true and on in the console. I play that way all the time, and it doesn't hurt a thing. You still have to choose something in a menu before actually cheating, so it won't make you a cheater just to play with it on. But you would need to do the typing in the console once, every time you open the game.

    I have a mod to turn both on, automatically. Either core mod, awesome or Twallen will do that. You can also use a combination of two mods, one for testingcheatsenabled true and one for buydebug on, to turn both on automatically, if you don't want to use a core mod. You would need both, because testing cheats have to be enabled before buydebug can be turned on. I believe TreeAg made both mods, over at Mod The Sims (MTS).

    In this particular case, using a mod is prudent, to save your game. I don't consider having the mods in my game "cheating" at all. As I say, if you don't do a particular action or choose a particular menu, then you haven't cheated. :)

    @ Writin_Reg Thank you for verifying the problem started when they changed things to keep the buff. I suspected that, but had no proof.

    Do any other worlds even have that buff? I'd gladly sacrifice a buff in the first world to keep all my other worlds safe.

    @ Mangoes I'm sorry that I didn't say something sooner. Your lot never caused a problem in my game, either. :)
  • Jopie58Jopie58 Posts: 545 New Member
    edited April 2012
    Thanks Elanorbreton for answering my question about LL.
    And thanks to Amjoie and everyone else who adds info.
    In my opinion this is also a thread that should stay on the first page :wink:
  • yoda65yoda65 Posts: 3,410 Member
    edited April 2012
    Thanks for this thread, very helpful! :D
    I'm re-starting with fresh games and town because of laggs, so I will check this now!
    and I would be careful before also uploading a lot.
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  • ohhjulietohhjuliet Posts: 1,369 Member
    edited April 2012
    Now I have something fun to do when I get home tonight! Look for hidden spawners!!! (I had no idea that this could happen... yikes)
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